2 pictures to sum up Iniesta

dfx-

darkman2 wrote: »

pffft none would have been in the Spanish team never mind the midfield. No disrespect but would one of them have made the Spanish midfield in Euro 2012? I doubt it.

It is arguable that none of them or some of them wouldn't get into the Spanish midfield, but that is not to say they are not better than the individual members of that midfield. The Spanish style is very particular and wouldn't suit every player who has ever played.

JohnnyRyan99

Never said he'd keep them out, just didn't think he had a quite tournament.

Pro. F

JohnnyRyan99 wrote: »

Never said he'd keep them out, just didn't think he had a quite tournament.

Sorry yeah, I didn't think you were saying he would keep them out. I was just clarifying that I meant Silva had a quiet tournament by the standards required to be keeping out those types of players.

Tbf to Silva it's easy for Spanish or Barca players to have a quiet tournament or run of games. The style is so all consuming that even great players like Xavi and Iniesta can become just cogs in the machine. And conversely, like dfx- says, even great players from other teams could struggle to fit in.

Mr.Nice Guy

I don't think he is the best midfielder of all time myself but I think he is certainly worthy of consideration and deserves better treatment than he is receiving in this thread.

He played a huge role in helping his country win two Euros plus a World Cup and he has been a key member of a Barca team that many regard as the greatest side ever.

I don't think he'd look out of place in an all time greatest XI myself.

Fight_Night

He's a world class midfielder and is one of the best of all time. Deserves a bit more respect than this tbh. Ok you prefer Zidane fair enough but it's not that outrageous to prefer Iniesta.

Iniesta has won 2 Euros, 1 WC and several Champions league titles, and every single one he has played a huge part in his team winning. For Spain one could argue he has played the biggest part. That's a fairly impressive feat.

And Keane better than Iniesta? Are you serious?

Pro. F

Fight_Night wrote: »

And Keane better than Iniesta? Are you serious?

Why wouldn't he be serious? Keane is one of the best midfielders ever, so is Iniesta. They are so different from each other in their roles though it is pretty much impossible to compare them.

Edit: Actually I would say Keane is a lot closer to being the best box-to-box midfielder ever than Iniesta is to being the best attacking midfielder ever.

Fenix

The only reason Iniesta seems to be not getting the respect he deserves is because of the manner in which the OP conducted his 'argument'.

He's definitely one of the best ever, but not *thee* best.

Honourable mentions for Hagi and Stoichkov, just cause no one has said them.

MrStuffins

Stoichkov was a striker no?

event

Fight_Night wrote: »

He's a world class midfielder and is one of the best of all time. Deserves a bit more respect than this tbh. Ok you prefer Zidane fair enough but it's not that outrageous to prefer Iniesta.

Iniesta has won 2 Euros, 1 WC and several Champions league titles, and every single one he has played a huge part in his team winning. For Spain one could argue he has played the biggest part. That's a fairly impressive feat.

And Keane better than Iniesta? Are you serious?

everyone says this, but Zidane has won a good bit himself too.
he has scored goals in WC and CL finals, and he dragged his team to the WC final in 06 (only his own madness stopped them winning)

Fenix

MrStuffins wrote: »

Stoichkov was a striker no?

Technically left winger! Although probably closer to striker than midfielder I suppose.

Also, Xavi came out with this gem last year

Paul Scholes receives special praise: ‘In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen — the most complete — is Scholes. I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything.

That's just an extract from the full interview here

ush

darkman2 wrote: »

WHY would they have gotten in the Spanish team? Once again greatest midfield ever - why would any of them be playing in the Spanish team. Great players and all but with Spain's midfield now - I don't see it.

Cruyff would have been made player manager of the current Spanish set-up and continue to smoke 20 a day.

pickarooney

Cruyff, Zico and Platini weren't/aren't Spanish. I'm pretty sure that would rule them out, even with Spain's lax rules on qualification.

Richard Hillman

Can we not just make a Barcelona sub section how the good folk around here can ignore the fan girls

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd

Also Darkman2, dig out a tape of the 2006 WC Final. Watch that again then come back in here and stick to your position.

gosplan

Pro. F wrote: »

Why wouldn't he be serious? Keane is one of the best midfielders ever, so is Iniesta. They are so different from each other in their roles though it is pretty much impossible to compare them.

Edit: Actually I would say Keane is a lot closer to being the best box-to-box midfielder ever than Iniesta is to being the best attacking midfielder ever.

Is Keane really that thought of outside Ireland and the UK?

I mean best box to box midfielder ever?

First thing I think of is people like Lothar Matthauus or Schweinsteiger. What makes Keane stand out from these guys?

inforfun

HazDanz wrote: »

Aye Zico, Platini and Cruyff were alright as well at the football.

darkman2 wrote: »

pffft none would have been in the Spanish team never mind the midfield. No disrespect but would one of them have made the Spanish midfield in Euro 2012? I doubt it.

darkman2, did you only start watching football in 2010?

On nationality only, those 3 wouldnt have been in Spains midfield.

Spain's midfield the best ever?
Mwah ... The Dutch had an ok'ish midfiled in 1974 with Neeskens/Cruijff/Van Hanegem/Jansen although in that team everybody was playing everywhere.

ush

inforfun wrote: »

On nationality only, those 3 wouldnt have been in Spains midfield.

I think we're all aware of that. Or shall we add those three wouldn't have made Spain's midfield because of the passage of time, heart bypasses and arthritic knees.

splashthecash

This thread is a joke - darkman, you come on stating that Iniesta is the best midfielder and we are all supposed to prove to you that he's not, he is a great footballer no doubt about it but such a sweeping statement shouldn't be up to us to prove - your claim so you prove it.

inforfun

ush wrote: »

I think we're all aware of that. Or shall we add those three wouldn't have made Spain's midfield because of the passage of time, heart bypasses and arthritic knees.

I meant to say with that, that the only reason those 3 wouldnt make the Spain team, is their nationality.
If those 3 would be Spanish and playing now, they would be the Spanish midfield.
Plus 3 others. Since they dont play strikers.

Seaneh

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Also Darkman2, dig out a tape of the 2006 WC Final. Watch that again then come back in here and stick to your position.

Pirlo, MOTM, yeah, he was epic.

Guy:Incognito

Seaneh wrote: »

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Also Darkman2, dig out a tape of the 2006 WC Final. Watch that again then come back in here and stick to your position.

Pirlo, MOTM, yeah, he was epic.

Has there ever been a stage for you where anything to do with Italian football isn't the best thing ever, regardless of who else might have the cheek to be sharing a pitch with them?

Yous should have been Mussolini's press man. He'd have ended up being viewed much better by history. :-)

Seaneh

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Has there ever been a stage for you where anything to do with Italian football isn't the best thing ever, regardless of who else might have the cheek to be sharing a pitch with them?

Yous should have been Mussolini's press man. He'd have ended up being viewed much better by history. :-)

The 2006 world cup final, Pirlo WAS MOTM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup_knockout_stage#Final_.E2.80.93_Italy_vs_France

He was the best player in the tournament and if it wasn't for the sentimental hardon for Zidane he'd have been given the Golden Ball.

IF he meant Zidane, he chose the wrong match, he was quiet through and then lost the rag and attacked Materazzi. He scored the penalty in the first 10 minutes and then had a header on goal later in the match, besides that he was a passenger, France should have won the game but they couldn't do anything in the final third. Zidane was walking around like an angry bear, frustrated and unable to get past the Italian back 4 with Gattuso, Perotta and Di Rossi nipping at his heels all night keeping him quiet. The fact that Italy had the majority of possession proves that Zidane wasn't having much luck that night. His fairwell party was being ruined by the pesky Italians who weren't playing to the plan.

He was a great player, one of the best of all time, but he wasn't great during that match after the first 10-15 minutes and his thug streak, which he had his entire career (stamping, kicking, head butting, spitting, etc) came through, again, and cost him and his team, again.

LuckyLloyd

gosplan wrote: »

Is Keane really that thought of outside Ireland and the UK?

I mean best box to box midfielder ever?

First thing I think of is people like Lothar Matthauus or Schweinsteiger. What makes Keane stand out from these guys?

No, because he didn't play in the 2002 WC. He was at the very peak of his powers then, and demonstrating his abilities on the world stage would have allowed him to take his rightful place in 'best of all time' lists.

And to deny that he would be up there for the honour would be mistaken on your part. He was the dominant force in one of the top leagues in European football for nigh on a decade, and between 1998 and 2002 he could have been argued as the most impactful player in CL and International games.

The very fact that he was the premier player in his position in a league that had Viera says it all for me.

Seaneh wrote: »

Pirlo, MOTM, yeah, he was epic.

lol, wow. I'm wondering if you really believe that too..

LuckyLloyd

Seaneh wrote: »

The 2006 world cup final, Pirlo WAS MOTM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup_knockout_stage#Final_.E2.80.93_Italy_vs_France

He was the best player in the tournament and if it wasn't for the sentimental hardon for Zidane he'd have been given the Golden Ball.

IF he meant Zidane, he chose the wrong match, he was quiet through and then lost the rag and attacked Materazzi. He scored the penalty in the first 10 minutes and then had a header on goal later in the match, besides that he was a passenger, France should have won the game but they couldn't do anything in the final third. Zidane was walking around like an angry bear, frustrated and unable to get past the Italian back 4 with Gattuso, Perotta and Di Rossi nipping at his heels all night keeping him quiet. The fact that Italy had the majority of possession proves that Zidane wasn't having much luck that night. His fairwell party was being ruined by the pesky Italians who weren't playing to the plan.

He was a great player, one of the best of all time, but he wasn't great during that match after the first 10-15 minutes and his thug streak, which he had his entire career (stamping, kicking, head butting, spitting, etc) came through, again, and cost him and his team, again.

Oh you do believe it, jesus. Yes, Zidane was head and shoulders above everyone else in the 2006 WC Final. It is one of the greatest individual performances I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing. He got sent off, yes, but he was utterly magnificent up to that point.

Saying Zidane was a passenger throughout is simply absurd.

stovelid

My da and your da.

Straight go, no weapons.

inforfun

Zidane's perfomance against Brazil.... never seen anything like it.

Based on that game alone he should have been MOTM of all matches played in that tournament, even the ones where France weren't playing.

Seaneh

inforfun wrote: »

Zidane's perfomance against Brazil.... never seen anything like it.

Based on that game alone he should have been MOTM of all matches played in that tournament, even the ones where France weren't playing.

That was his best game in about 3 years, probably the best performance at the tournament.

LuckyLloyd

stovelid wrote: »

My da and your da.

Straight go, no weapons.

Ah jaysus Stovelid, what are these places for if not for pointless arguments?

kryogen

darkman2 wrote: »

Well he pretty much orchestrated all the goals in the final - why not start with that?

Your premise for why he is the best midfielder of all time is that he had a good game in the Euro final?

Who will the best player ever next time there is a final I wonder

stovelid

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah jaysus Stovelid, what are these places for if not for pointless arguments?

Fair enough. I'm in a bad mood.

kryogen

darkman2 wrote: »

pffft none would have been in the Spanish team never mind the midfield. No disrespect but would one of them have made the Spanish midfield in Euro 2012? I doubt it.

Ahhh

Now I get it! Your just on a wind up!

Ok I was getting worried the level of stupid was growing to uncontrollable levels in certain corners of these parts!

Zico, Platini or Cryuff would not have made the Euro 2012 squad for Spain! Good one

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Iniesta isn't even the best midfielder in Spain, never mind the world. At the moment, he is the second best though.

darkman2 wrote: »

What goals? You are being silly now. It was Iniesta that ran midfield in the final and assisted mostly was it not?

If you think that, you don't understand the Spainsh/Barca way of playing.

craggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

No

You are a shockingly bad poster.

Xavi6

craggles wrote: »

You are a shockingly bad poster.

Awww why?

Cokeistan

He's definitely up there I think. You have to consider the teams he's playing in though, he's got unbelievable players all around him no matter who he's playing for

kryogen

I don't think anybody fails to acknowledge the genius of Iniesta, and the lack of respect he is perceived to be receiving is to counter balance the ridiculous arguments being made from the OP. This happens alot.

Iniesta is fantastic, it does not mean he is the best ever.

He is at his peak now, and he will become more prominant as Xavi continues to age.

Skylinehead

Lots of hyperbole (on both sides) in this thread. For me, Iniesta is better than Keane ever was, although it's a little silly comparing them. As for Zidane, I'm not entirely sure on this one. I think he's a little bit overrated, as he never really took control of games, rather he pulled something spectacular out, usually when it was needed most. He disappeared a lot more than people think. Iniesta the best midfielder of all time though, no. No way.

Pro. F

gosplan wrote: »

Is Keane really that thought of outside Ireland and the UK?

I mean best box to box midfielder ever?

First thing I think of is people like Lothar Matthauus or Schweinsteiger. What makes Keane stand out from these guys?

He probably isn't that recognised outside Ireland and the UK, for the reasons Lloyd outlined. But that's not important, we're able to judge him on what we've seen and I would say he has to be up there amongst the greatest.

Mathauus is a good shout, but I wouldn't have Schweinsteiger near that level yet. Although again, Keane and Schweinsteiger are quite different types of players.

Skylinehead

Mattaus was much, much better than Keane. Think we're all being just a teensy bit biased here!

Bounty Hunter

Skylinehead wrote: »

Mattaus was much, much better than Keane. Think we're all being just a teensy bit biased here!

I'm not sure if anyone has actually claimed Keane was the best on this thread but like Iniesta (but for different reasons) I would have him in the bracket just below some of the best and if as someone else said you were to be more specific he could be near the top of a box to box bracket or something similar.

Maybe he wouldn't be held in the same regard but I always remember he got great respect from CL opponents in the same way Scholes did (fairly sure the Xavi quotes have already appeared in this thread) and that Semi-final vs Juventus that he dragged Utd through really highlighted his quality for a lot of non Irish / British football fans

SDTimeout

I would prefer Iniesta over Xavi and I think Zidane is the best midfielder of all time.

However seeing OP's argument on the matter is making me think if I should reconsider Iniesta :pac:

kryogen

Keane is the only Irish player on the FIFA 100 list, does that not show he was rated outside the UK and Ireland whatever you may think of those lists overall.

Pro. F

Skylinehead wrote: »

Mattaus was much, much better than Keane. Think we're all being just a teensy bit biased here!

You're just reverse biasing.

_blank_

stovelid wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm in a bad mood.

It's a normal mood for you.

SlickRic

i'm just loving the fact the OP hasn't told us why he's the best.

why is he above Zidane? Xavi? Keane? Pirlo? Cruyff? Platini? Zico? and so on....

don't make the claim, simply posting a couple of pictures - pictures might i add which play on the illusion you can create with photography - and expect everyone to agree.

Iniesta is in the discussion IMO, but it's up to you to back yourself up, which you really haven't done at all.

tdv123

MrStuffins wrote: »

Darkman, how many pictures of Zidane does this thread need for you to give it up?

Zidane says..............

Skylinehead

Pro. F wrote: »

You're just reverse biasing.

Possibly true, but Keane wasn't THAT good, as in the best of the best. For the record, I'd have Iniesta up there.

gosplan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, because he didn't play in the 2002 WC. He was at the very peak of his powers then, and demonstrating his abilities on the world stage would have allowed him to take his rightful place in 'best of all time' lists.

And to deny that he would be up there for the honour would be mistaken on your part. He was the dominant force in one of the top leagues in European football for nigh on a decade, and between 1998 and 2002 he could have been argued as the most impactful player in CL and International games.

The very fact that he was the premier player in his position in a league that had Viera says it all for me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking him here. On his day, Keane would be a match for anyone.

I'm just wondering aloud how many players exist like Keane that we mightn't rate as highly because we haven't been as exposed to them.

Personally, i think 'best of all time lists' are rediculous. At HIS time Keane was as good as anyone he played against and I think that's all you can really argue for sure.

Gbear

Beyond a certain point "best player" is meaningless.

And "best" is vague.
Best technically? I doubt it.
Most effective? Maybe in the discussion - he doesn't score very many or get many assists but he scores at important times and produces alot of important key passes that result in assists and goals.
Most influential? You only have to look at how Spain or Barca fare without Xavi playing to see that Iniesta's not even the most influential in the teams he plays in, never mind ever.
Most successful? Not by a long shot, I suspect.


Iniesta has more technical ability in his arse than Keane had. That doesn't mean he was better. They're so different that they cannot be compared.

I think most of the outlandish praise Iniesta gets is down to a kind of hipsterish mentality of not wanting to go along with saying Messi's the best in the world.


Ultimately, I think Iniesta is a luxury kind of player. Most of the time he's another link in the chain for Barca and Spain and he contributes little more than any other link in that chain. Without Xavi, the entire tempo and effectiveness of their game would be hindered. Against most teams, not having Iniesta might make the difference between only winning 3-0 rather than 4-0.
Where I think he shines is in the tighter games. His ability to create chances or score goals that other players can't is where I think his value lies. The goal machines like Messi and the way Xavi makes Barca or Spain play are what win you leagues. Iniesta is the anti-flat-track bully. He wins you champions leagues, world cups and european championships by doing what other players can't when the pressure and the calibre of opposition are at their highest.

If then, he can't claim to be the most skilled technically and if he doesn't score the most goals or truly shape how his team plays than I don't see how he has a claim to be anywhere near the best if he occupies such a small niche.