Terry Court Case * Mod Note #51 *

Blatter

Beginning today, latest developments (via Martin Brunt of Sky News):

Prosecution says Terry called Ferdinand a "f****** black c*** in response to a slur about his alleged affair with a team mates wife.

Prosecution says the slur came after the two players clashed and swapped insults and had to be separated by others.

Prosecution says Terry does not deny using the words but says they were "sarcastic exclamation or inquiry to a perceived false accusation"

Close ups show Terry shouting, some of it obscured by players walking in front of him.

Prosecution says the match was broadcast live to 2 million viewers


Update:

Pros says there is not much dispute between prosecution and defence lip reading experts about the words used by Terry

Court shown Sky Sports, unedited, and club footage

Pros says Terry shouted at Ferdinand: "F*** off, f*** off you f****** black c-word" and "f****** k*******"

Pros says Ferdinand had accused Terry of "sh****** your mate's missus."

Pros footage shows Ferdinand and Terry colliding in penalty box and Terry falls to the ground

Pros says Terry was interviewed by Football Association five days after the match

Pros says Ashley Cole appears in video clips but will not be a prosecution witness

Pros says Terry thought Ferdinand had accused him of calling him an f****** black c-word

Pros says Terry was hurt, taken aback and surprised by the allegation

Terry told FA he spoke to Ferdinand after the game and Ferdinand said he hadn't accused him of abusing him

Pros says Ferdinand said he heard no racial abuse when the players met in the dressing room later

Ferdinand later watched tv repeats and believed then that Terry had abused him racially

The_Kew_Tour

I wonder will he tog out if he wins the case.;)

markesmith

If Ferdinand was on about the Wayne Bridge thing, you could see how Terry might respond in kind in the heat of the moment. Not condoning racism at all, but you can see how these things are said in the heat of battle.

Blazer

Just reading that no jailtime can be handed out and the worst JT can get is a €2,500 fine..of course he could lose a nice few bob in sponsorship though

Giggsy11

If he is found gulity, will FA ban him? As you can't punish twice for the same offense.

The_Kew_Tour

If the case is to be believed and Ferdinand did take swipe at Terry then I do have little more sympathy for Terry.

Racism is not right and should be punished, but in heat of moment it could happen and nobody is perfect.

machiavellianme

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If he is found gulity, will FA ban him? As you can't punish twice for the same offense.

But the fa didn't punish him once?

GavRedKing

Dont think the FA can hand out a ban after the courts have dealt with it.

greendom

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If he is found gulity, will FA ban him? As you can't punish twice for the same offense.

He's not been punished by the FA yet. They weren't able to as it might prejudice the court case. If guilty he needs to be banned for at least as long as Suarez.

kryogen

You would hope if he is found guilty that the FA will enforce some sort of sanction, be it that he is unfit to represent his country having been found guilt of racist comments, and/or a ban, at least the same as what Suarez got.

It is of course, the FA however.

machiavellianme

gavredking wrote: »

Dont think the FA can hand out a ban after the courts have dealt with it.

That doesn't sound right. How can the fa issue bans to fans found guilty of racist chants after being dealt with by police/courts?

Blatter

greendom wrote: »

He's not been punished by the FA yet. They weren't able to as it might prejudice the court case. If guilty he needs to be banned for at least as long as Suarez.

Not a chance imo. The reason Suarez' ban was so long was because he was found to have racially abused Evra repeatedly. It seems Terry is only being accused of a one off act of racism.

GavRedKing

machiavellianme wrote: »

That doesn't sound right. How can the fa issue bans to fans found guilty of racist chants after being dealt with by police/courts?

The FA didnt charge him at the time becasue they said they had a lack of evidence, no?

It was the Crown prosecutor said there was grounds for a charge and this has lead us to this court case.

The Recliner

gavredking wrote: »

Dont think the FA can hand out a ban after the courts have dealt with it.

I think they can, in much the same way that you could be fired from your job after getting a drink driving ban in court I don't think court punishment precludes other punishments

The FA did say they couldn't so anything until after the court case in case they prejudiced the trial, surely they would have said they couldn't so anything because of the trial if that was the case

If he is found guilty then I think any action taken should be more than was applied to Suarez as that basically came down to one person's word against another's but this will have had enough evidence to achieve prosecution (if that happens) so would warrant harsher punishment, I don't see that happening though

machiavellianme

greendom wrote: »

He's not been punished by the FA yet. They weren't able to as it might prejudice the court case. If guilty he needs to be banned for at least as long as Suarez.

He said it. Context or not, he should still serve a ban to get the message across that these types of slurs will not be tolerated. Don't want to bring up the Suarez debate but he served a ban for saying something unsavoury whether racist or not. Terry was on camera saying the same,except in English which most viewers speak.

Blatter

I've seen nothing in the mainstream media about the FA not being able to punish Terry because of the court case, so I can only presume that they can and almost certainly will, if found guilty.

Jax Teller

Will Chelsea punish him if he is found guilty ?

kryogen

Public pressure and pressure from the anti racism groups will ensure the FA have to take some action if he is found guilty

GavRedKing

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Will Chelsea punish him if he is found guilty ?

Probably made to do a lot of PR work and possibily lose the captaincy ala what happened with England.

As I sdaid on the Chelsea thread JT has been pulled form all our ads in magazines and TV commericials anyway so hes losing out on revenue thriough that.

machiavellianme

gavredking wrote: »

The FA didnt charge him at the time becasue they said they had a lack of evidence, no?

It was the Crown prosecutor said there was grounds for a charge and this has lead us to this court case.

Twas on camera. Surely that's evidence.

Giggsy11

machiavellianme wrote: »

But the fa didn't punish him once?

Did they?

GavRedKing

machiavellianme wrote: »

Twas on camera. Surely that's evidence.

I'm not entirely sure TBH.

If he his foudn guilty then I've no problem with him getting a ban for it, even if he uses the context excuse, its just that, an excuse which shouldnt stand up.

Soups123

If he is found guilty, the fa can act within their own rules and punish him further as could Chelsea if they wish.

I understand it that the FA haven't punished him formally to date because they wud interfere with the formal police investigation.

As a minimum punishment Chelsea should ban him from wearing the club jersey at celebrations he was not playing in

GavRedKing

Soups123 wrote: »

If he is found guilty, the fa can act within their own rules and punish him further as could Chelsea if they wish.

I understand it that the FA haven't punished him formally to date because they wud interfere with the formal police investigation.

As a minimum punishment Chelsea should ban him from wearing the club jersey at celebrations he was not playing in

You were doing well until this point.

kryogen

Rob Harris‏@RobHarris

Anton Ferdinand about to start giving evidence with John Terry watching

Soups123

gavredking wrote: »

Soups123 wrote: »

If he is found guilty, the fa can act within their own rules and punish him further as could Chelsea if they wish.

I understand it that the FA haven't punished him formally to date because they wud interfere with the formal police investigation.

As a minimum punishment Chelsea should ban him from wearing the club jersey at celebrations he was not playing in

You were doing well until this point.

I didn't want to come across as a Mr serious

kryogen

Matt Dickinson‏@DickinsonTimes

Ferdinand now asked to show the court what a "shagging gesture" looks like

Brilliant!

GavRedKing

Soups123 wrote: »

I didn't want to come across as a Mr serious

Racism is a fairly serious issue though.

We have one of Englands most recognised footballers standing trial accused of making racist comments.

It will be interesting to see what the FA and Chelsea FC will do if hes found guilty.

Soups123

Ha ha brilliant if ur going to take my client down I'm going to make a tick of you first. Hope he stops the shagging motion before the sex face automatically kicks in

kryogen

tariq panja‏@tariqpanja

Ferdinand on trying to shake Cole's hand after game: 'I went to shake his hand and he said to me 'you can't talk to JT like that.''

kryogen

Cashley would wanna pull his tongue out of Terrys asshole now tbh if thats true

kryogen

Don't see anything yet from the reports coming out of the trial that suggest they will be able to clear Terry. The video evidence is pretty solid, and regardless of the context he used the words.

Plenty of claims and counter claims, but what's not in dispute are the words used by Terry towards Ferdinand.

froog

seems like ashley cole is a crucial witness in the whole thing. i know the prosecution aren't using him but will the defence?

Lumbo

From Football 365:

11.37: Anton Ferdinand has been asked by the court to act out his 'shagging gesture'. He obliged, bucking back and forth.
Surely the highlight thus far.

:D

ballsymchugh

gavredking wrote: »

Dont think the FA can hand out a ban after the courts have dealt with it.

i think duncan ferguson was banned for 12 games after his 3 month stint in prison for headbutting a guy while playing for rangers. maybe the football ban was before, but he definitely got both.

thebaz

anyone else think Ferdinand is being a tad too sensitive , yeah Terry shouldnt have said what he did - but Ferdinand admits to winding up Terry about something personal - Terry reacts - how many times do people react in the heat of battle and say things they regret - Racism is horrible, but for the whole media circus, - if Terry had called Anton, gay would that be different ?

kryogen

Ferdinand didn't bring this case against Terry.

Also, no, calling someone a prick, a ****, a wanker a scumbag is one thing, bringing someones race, religion etc into it is crossing a line.

GavRedKing

I dont think Terry should have said what he did, racism is a lot more sensitive subject then taking the piss for an affair.

Anton shouldnt have brought up a personal subject but Terry definetly shoudlnt have said what he did.

A ban might help us anyway, I dont think JT has too many good games in him anyway at this stage of his career.

SlickRic

BREAKING NEWS:

John Terry's defence against Anton Ferdinand: "I'm NOT a racist. Racism is a crime - and crime is for black people."

GavRedKing

SlickRic wrote: »

BREAKING [URL]news:[/URL]

:eek:

Awaiting Thats Racist gif.

jenno86

I hope the FA go to town on him. If they can ban Suarez with no proof for 12 games surely they can nail Terry when its caught on camera plain as day.

GavRedKing

I'd be surprised if they did go to town on him, if they gave him a simialr ban then that would make sense as both bans deal with Racism.

Although you have to factor in the English part.

Terry = English
Suarez = Not English

It wouldnt be like the English FA to favour their own and look the other way.

Blatter

Blatter wrote: »

Not a chance imo. The reason Suarez' ban was so long was because he was found to have racially abused Evra repeatedly. It seems Terry is only being accused of a one off act of racism.

So one off racist comments aren't as bad.

Heard it all now.

Cantona's Collars

kryogen wrote: »

Cashley would wanna pull his tongue out of Terrys asshole now tbh if thats true

If rumours are to be believed,his is not the only asshole that Cole's had his tongue in;)

Blatter

rarnes1 wrote: »

So one off racist comments aren't as bad.

Heard it all now.

What?

Obviously racially abusing somebody repeatedly is significantly worse that a one off incident.

gavredking

gavredking wrote: »

I'd be surprised if they did go to town on him, if they gave him a simialr ban then that would make sense as both bans deal with Racism.

Although you have to factor in the English part.

Terry = English
Suarez = Not English

It wouldnt be like the English FA to favour their own and look the other way.

Sounds about right.

All hail the FA

ceegee

Did anyone else struggle to figure out what a k******* is?

Blatter

Blatter wrote: »

What?

Obviously racially abusing somebody repeatedly is significantly worse that a one off incident.

Is racism not racism?

eagle eye

gavredking wrote: »

I dont think Terry should have said what he did, racism is a lot more sensitive subject then taking the piss for an affair.

Anton shouldnt have brought up a personal subject but Terry definetly shoudlnt have said what he did.

A ban might help us anyway, I dont think JT has too many good games in him anyway at this stage of his career.

Its never as simplistic as that. It is different for every person.

You can say pretty much anyting to one guy about his gf/wife and he will just laugh it off but say it to another guy and he will lose the plot completely.

You could say something racist to the first guy and he could lose the plot and the second guy might laugh it off.

Blatter

rarnes1 wrote: »

Is racism not racism?

Yeah, who said it wasn't?

Are you trying to claim that all acts of racism are equal and should all be punished the same way?

GavRedKing

Before this breaks down into a Suarez & Liverpool/Evra & Man Utd cluster fúck, I'm going to give ye all a civil and polite warning that discussion of it is fine, as both involved racist incidents but any trolling or abuse will be dealt with, this goes for the Terry case and the Suarez/Evra incident, consider this a one off warning.

Please try and keep it civil folks.