Terry Court Case * Mod Note #51 *

average_runner

Kess73 wrote: »

I think if Suarez had been tried in a criminal court and found innocent, and another footballer had recived extra punishment on probablitities by the FA for things other than what he admitted to, then supporters of that player would be calling for Suarez to face the FA.


I am just curious to see how the FA handle it given that they sent through the whole "we think Suarez is not a racist" spiel, but still dished out the bulk of his punishment for the bits based on probabilities rather than giving the bulk for what he admitted.

I really don't think the FA will actually do anything to Terry, and am not expecting much bar maybe some window dressing from them at most, but I do think a few potential loopholes might have been created thanks to the the Suarez case and the Terry case.

FA cant touch him, as not guilty now in the law of the land!

Suarez never proved Evra had personally insulted him either!

The_Kew_Tour

average_runner wrote: »

In fairness this was the right call.

Ferdinand was intent on trying to get Terry to react, so Ferdinand got personal with Terry. If you cant take it, then dont give it Mr Ferdinand.

Now Terry is an idiot and i couldnt careless if he had got found guilty, but it only went to court because of who he is.

If Ferdinand had called him White b**tard would there be much said about it???

Fair point. Kinda what I think, but he should have been punished and found guilty all the same.

Wont lose sleep for Anton anyway.

I am pie

average_runner wrote: »

In fairness this was the right call.

Ferdinand was intent on trying to get Terry to react, so Ferdinand got personal with Terry. If you cant take it, then dont give it Mr Ferdinand.

Now Terry is an idiot and i couldnt careless if he had got found guilty, but it only went to court because of who he is.

If Ferdinand had called him White b**tard would there be much said about it???

Yes. If he called him a white b**tard, he would be the one in court. Simple.

Rekop dog

The worst part about it is obv the precedent the verdict has now set not only for football but general society. Outrageous decision in all honesty.

eigrod

If the FA and Referee's Association had clamped down years ago on the use of foul and abusive language by players, then this could have been avoided. There's a rule against it, yet they never do anything about it. We see players clearly spouting it in every game, at referees and opponents, yet nothing's ever done.

ThunbergsAreGo

Wasnt one of Suarez's charges "Foul and Abusive" Language?

Could Ferdinand not be up on this as well?

cgpg5

Techless wrote: »

The big question now is will he get the England captaincy back...:cool:

Very valid question

Patsy fyre

Disgrace

donalg1

Rekop dog wrote: »

Boiled down to they couldn't prove he meant "****ing black ****" as a direct insult.

Fairly lol tbf.

I know what you mean, I fell on the floor when he claimed to have said it in a sarcastic manner, sure thats grand then!!

It was on TV, clear footage of him saying it, he admitted he said it but the judge says there is not enough evidence that he said it. I wonder what the judge dresses as at a fancy dress party.

Kylo Ren

From Paddy Power

"John Terry not guilty. We were convinced once his mam showed us a picture of him in the family album..."

Chucky the tree

average_runner wrote: »

FA cant touch him, as not guilty now in the law of the land!

Suarez never proved Evra had personally insulted him either!

Of course they can. FA have their own rules and guidelines set up which is all they have to go on.

wonderfullife

The CPS has some serious questions to answer. I accept there was public interest given it was such a high profile incident on tv but realistically the trial was for show - not guilty was the only verdict possible based on the evidence. Severe waste of time, money and resources.

Also, the argument that there is now a loophole in place doesn't hold any weight. The CPS won't touch these cases with a bargepole after this. So it will fundamentally revert to the FA being the ones to deal with all these incidents.

ceegee

average_runner wrote: »

Kess73 wrote: »

I think if Suarez had been tried in a criminal court and found innocent, and another footballer had recived extra punishment on probablitities by the FA for things other than what he admitted to, then supporters of that player would be calling for Suarez to face the FA.


I am just curious to see how the FA handle it given that they sent through the whole "we think Suarez is not a racist" spiel, but still dished out the bulk of his punishment for the bits based on probabilities rather than giving the bulk for what he admitted.

I really don't think the FA will actually do anything to Terry, and am not expecting much bar maybe some window dressing from them at most, but I do think a few potential loopholes might have been created thanks to the the Suarez case and the Terry case.

FA cant touch him, as not guilty now in the law of the land!

Suarez never proved Evra had personally insulted him either!

Of course the FA can touch him, you dont have to have committed a crime to have broken FA rules, if that was the case noone would get banned for dangerous play unless convicted of assault

Kess73

average_runner wrote: »

FA cant touch him, as not guilty now in the law of the land!

Suarez never proved Evra had personally insulted him either!

Did the FA report not say that Evra admitted to making insults about the sister of Suarez? If Evra admitted to it, then why would Suarez have to prove it when both he and Evra had consistent stories about that bit?.

Same way that what Suarez admitted to saying was proven to be consistent to what word both men eventually agreed on for that bit of their arguement.

I am pie

donalg1 wrote: »

I know what you mean, I fell on the floor when he claimed to have said it in a sarcastic manner, sure thats grand then!!

It was on TV, clear footage of him saying it, he admitted he said it but the judge says there is not enough evidence that he said it. I wonder what the judge dresses as at a fancy dress party.

I only robbed that bank in a sarcastic manner your honour, to be fair to me, i was offended that they accused me of being in debt and not paying my credit card bills, so, like..err, i robbed that bank. Sarcastically. Of course

average_runner

I am pie wrote: »

Yes. If he called him a white b**tard, he would be the one in court. Simple.

Bull crap.

An irish player came out two years saying he is called Irish b**tard on pitch all the time


Henry said he was French c**t all the time by other players.

Ginger players are slagged off big time and nothing happens!!

So why arent these in court?

Its all racism.

citytillidie

naughtb4 wrote: »

Wasnt one of Suarez's charges "Foul and Abusive" Language?

Could Ferdinand not be up on this as well?

Like rooney was we he was caught on camera say fcuk after scoring a goal

average_runner

Kess73 wrote: »

Did the FA report not say that Evra admitted to making insults about the sister of Suarez? If Evra admitted to it, then why would Suarez have to prove it when both he and Evra had consistent stories about that bit?.

Same way that what Suarez admitted to saying was proven to be consistent to what word both men eventually agreed on for that bit of their arguement.

Fair enough if I am wrong about that!

wonderfullife

Rekop dog wrote: »

The worst part about it is obv the precedent the verdict has now set not only for football but general society. Outrageous decision in all honesty.

There is no precedent being set here. If you can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt the offence, then it's a straightforward not guilty. The likelihood of similar cases with video evidence in this manner going in front of the courts is so small (at least football wise, the CPS won't go near them after this). If this was a video from a nightclub where someone is alleged to have called someone else "a black ****" the same verdict would have been reached with a similar defence offered. Basically this was a complete waste of time and resources.

Chucky the tree

average_runner wrote: »

Bull crap.

An irish player came out two years saying he is called Irish b**tard on pitch all the time


Henry said he was French c**t all the time by other players.

Ginger players are slagged off big time and nothing happens!!

So why arent these in court?

Its all racism.

Jesus, you really need to look up racism in a dictionary.

Fight_Night

I am pie wrote: »

Yes. If he called him a white b**tard, he would be the one in court. Simple.

He would my arse.

SlipperyPeople

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miVoe7U6Lx4

average_runner

ceegee wrote: »

Of course the FA can touch him, you dont have to have committed a crime to have broken FA rules, if that was the case noone would get banned for dangerous play unless convicted of assault

None of the dangerous plays ever went to court.

It is now proven that Terry is not guilty of racist.

Of course we all dont believe it but the FA cant charge him on that.

They can charge on abusive language and will have to charge Anton too.

Kess73

average_runner wrote: »

FA cant touch him, as not guilty now in the law of the land!

Suarez never proved Evra had personally insulted him either!

Lee Bowyer was prevented from playing for England by the FA even before the result of his trial was announced. Innocent until proven guilty did not come into it then with the FA.

average_runner

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Jesus, you really need to look up racism in a dictionary.

Here you go:


Racism is behavior or beliefs motivated by racial stereotypes, it generally includes practices of racial discrimination, and ideologies of racial supremacy and hierarchy. Some sources emphasize that racism involves the belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others, [1][2] or follow practices that discriminate against members of particular racial groups,[1] for example by perpetuating unequal access to resources between groups



French, Irish, Ginger all fall into it!

GavRedKing

If he had been found guilty here and got an FA ban I wouldnt have minded, if the FA now decide to issue a ban I hope he appeals it, I suppose thats a debate for another day.

The FA wont want to be seen doing nothing so might issue a statement along the lines of condemning racism and bascially saying their hands are tied with the court ruling which would be avoiding the bigger issue IMO.

TokenWhite

Rekop dog wrote: »

The worst part about it is obv the precedent the verdict has now set not only for football but general society. Outrageous decision in all honesty.

Terry's argument was something along the lines of " I thought he accused me of calling him a f*cking black C***, so I asked him, hey do you think I called you a f*cking black C***". Let's assume for a second that that's exactly what happened, do you think he should have been found guilty for racially abusing Ferdinand in that context? I have no idea what was said, or in what context, nor do you, or even the judge for that matter, but his decision is based on what likely happened, or on what can't be proved to have happened i.e. not enough evidence to suggest that Terry's intentions were to insult Ferdinand.

Kess73

TokenWhite wrote: »

Terry's argument was something along the lines of " I thought he accused me of calling him a f*cking black C***, so I asked him, hey do you think I called you a f*cking black C***". Let's assume for a second that that's exactly what happened, do you think he should have been found guilty for racially abusing Ferdinand in that context? I have no idea what was said, or in what context, nor do you, or even the judge for that matter, but his decision is based on what likely happened, or on what can't be proved to have happened i.e. not enough evidence to suggest that Terry's intentions were to insult Ferdinand.

What a fantastic username to be posting in this thread.

I am pie

average_runner wrote: »

Bull crap.

An irish player came out two years saying he is called Irish b**tard on pitch all the time


Henry said he was French c**t all the time by other players.

Ginger players are slagged off big time and nothing happens!!

So why arent these in court?

Its all racism.

Ginger - not a race. as far as I know 'hairism' isn't illegal.

As soon as someone makes a police report there will be a case. An off duty police officer called this one in. If someone reports a crime against the racial order offence laws, then a court case will follow if the CPS agree that an offence has occurred.

As i said. Simple.

average_runner

Kess73 wrote: »

Lee Bowyer was prevented from playing for England by the FA even before the result of his trial was announced. Innocent until proven guilty did not come into it then with the FA.

Can do it before hand but not afterwords if found not guilty

kryogen

So?

Did he tog out then?

average_runner

I am pie wrote: »

Ginger - not a race. as far as I know 'hairism' isn't illegal.

As soon as someone makes a police report there will be a case. An off duty police officer called this one in. If someone reports a crime against the racial order offence laws, then a court case will follow if the CPS agree that an offence has occurred.

As i said. Simple.

Racism can be a characteristic, ginger is a characteristic.

average_runner

kryogen wrote: »

So?

Did he tog out then?

Was he picked to play afterwards and then stopped by the FA?

I am pie

average_runner wrote: »

Here you go:


Racism is behavior or beliefs motivated by racial stereotypes, it generally includes practices of racial discrimination, and ideologies of racial supremacy and hierarchy. Some sources emphasize that racism involves the belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others, [1][2] or follow practices that discriminate against members of particular racial groups,[1] for example by perpetuating unequal access to resources between groups



French, Irish, Ginger all fall into it!

Ginger does not. Dear me....

'Some sources' indeed.

Techless

average_runner wrote: »

Bull crap.

An irish player came out two years saying he is called Irish b**tard on pitch all the time


Henry said he was French c**t all the time by other players.

Ginger players are slagged off big time and nothing happens!!

So why arent these in court?

Its all racism.

Not to mention us poor culchies and how we have suffered in silence over the years

Kess73

average_runner wrote: »

Can do it before hand but not afterwords if found not guilty

How can they punish him beforehand based on the outcome of a trial that had not taken place?

The FA used the line that they could not get involved with the Terry issue because of the fact it was going before the criminal court, so surely the same should have applied to the Bowyer case, maybe even more so because his case involved an incident that did not even take place on a football pitch.


In that case the FA should be stopping any player who is the subject of a court case from playing for England before the case is even heard in court.

Masked Man

If anybody wants actual information instead of just hating on Terry.

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/r-v-john-terry.pdf

I am pie

average_runner wrote: »

Racism can be a characteristic, ginger is a characteristic.

You really want to try and understand those wikipedia sources before you go making ridiculous claims.

Honestly, I'm not discussing this any further as it's infantile in the extreme.

To summarise, m'lud...calling someone ginger is not racist. Simply, not racist. You'll be a long time scrolling through wikipedia trying to find a conviction based on calling some ginger. Honestly, i'm laughing at what you're trying to claim as i type this.

TokenWhite

Kess73 wrote: »

What a fantastic username to be posting in this thread.

I'd thought I'd hit the jackpot with Suarezgate, but they just keep coming

donalg1

average_runner wrote: »

Here you go:


Racism is behavior or beliefs motivated by racial stereotypes, it generally includes practices of racial discrimination, and ideologies of racial supremacy and hierarchy. Some sources emphasize that racism involves the belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others, [1][2] or follow practices that discriminate against members of particular racial groups,[1] for example by perpetuating unequal access to resources between groups



French, Irish, Ginger all fall into it!

Sorry but ginger doesnt, imagine putting down Ginger on an application form under ethnicity, or nationality.

average_runner

Kess73 wrote: »

How can they punish him beforehand based on the outcome of a trial that had not taken place?

The FA used the line that they could not get involved with the Terry issue because of the fact it was going before the criminal court, so surely the same should have applied to the Bowyer case, maybe even more so because his case involved an incident that did not even take place on a football pitch.


In that case the FA should be stopping any player who is the subject of a court case from playing for England before the case is even heard in court.

The FA could of ban Terry under foul and abusive language and still can do that, they just cant used the term racism in it. But Anton will have to be banned too.

average_runner

donalg1 wrote: »

Sorry but ginger doesnt, imagine putting down Ginger on an application form under ethnicity, or nationality.

Ok leave ginger out of it, what about French c**t and Irish c**t?

Mr Alan

average_runner wrote: »

The FA could of ban Terry under foul and abusive language and still can do that, they just cant used the term racism in it. But Anton will have to be banned too.

What the **** are you talking about?

killwill

average_runner wrote: »

Ok leave ginger out of it, what about French c**t and Irish c**t?

Xenophobia not racism.

SlickRic

Suarez can feel hard done by if the FA does nothing to Terry.

i'm not sure there's an argument against that, is there?

surely we can all agree on that?

TokenWhite

average_runner wrote: »

Ok leave ginger out of it, what about French c**t and Irish c**t?

You could probably end up in court for calling some a French or Irish c*nt as much as you could for calling them a black c*unt, but most people wouldn't bother reporting it (I know I'd be angry but doubt if I'd go to the bother of a court case over it), it's not really seen as as inflammatory by society (or even on a personal level by the person subjected to it) as abuse aimed at skin colour.

Mr Alan

Xenophobia, racism, personal appearance, ethnic background etc etc are covered under the same rule in the FA's rule book. I'm an expert on it thanks to our little Uruguayan legend :cool:

Gbear

Justice done, in the sense that I think it's a complete ****ing farce that you can face criminal charges for name calling.

Guy:Incognito

Was invanovic sitting on a pole outside the court in his Chelsea gear celebrating? Oh no, I forgot, It's only Terry that gets abuse for that.

Xavi6

SlickRic wrote: »

Suarez can feel hard done by if the FA does nothing to Terry.

i'm not sure there's an argument against that, is there?

surely we can all agree on that?

The fact that Suarez was the first thing brought up after the verdict was read out is pretty damn sad imo.