Can I opt out of Visa Debt card?

ArrBee

Hi,

1st of all, it's great to see BoI having a presence on sites like this. I hope more businesses follow suit.

I recently received a replacement debit card which is also a visa debt card and set up for contactless transactions.

My question is simple enough, How do I opt out or have the "added features" removed from my new card?

I do not require the ability for visa payments and would rather not have the security of my current debit card compromised if I don't need the feature.

Same goes for contactless transactions.

Kind of goes against the whole reason for a chip and pin, dont you think?

Cheers,
RB

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi ArrBee,

Thank you for the kind welcome.

Bank of Ireland will no longer be issuing Laser cards; you will not be able to opt out of receiving a Visa Debit card. The Visa Debit card will work the same way as a Laser. The reason we are changing to Visa Debit is that it provides some extra benifits for customers.

All our cards are enabled with the latest security features. If you use the contactless technology as an extra precaution, from time to time, you may be asked to enter your PIN to complete a transaction. You do not need to use the contactless technology, you should have no problem using your chip and pin at point of sale.

Thanks
Linda

ArrBee

Hi Linda, BoI

I am aware of the "extra benefits" which are of no benefit to me personally.
The problem is, I am also very aware of the extra risks.

I would have thought that if a customer was not wanting the benefits, there would be some way to opt out of the added risk.


From a technology perspective, there must be something in your back end systems that enables/disables the ability for a card to be used for contactless or visa transactions.
Are you able to find out if those features can be turned off from a card?


Also as a matter of interest, a couple of questions...

-When a disputed transaction is found how quickly does BoI refund the money?
On a proper credit card the dispute process is pretty straight forward, but on a debt card the customer is out of pocket immediately.

-when using a visa debit card overseas for example. how do I control if it is used as a visa vs as a normal debit card? or is this not possible and visa fees will start applying to transactions.

-does any of the transactional data collected leave BoI, for example going to Visa international?

Cheers,
RB

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi ArrBee,

As the card is a Visa Debit card all transactions will be Visa however, you can request a card without the contactless technology by contacting your branch here or Banking 365 on 0818 365 365.

ArrBee wrote: »

-When a disputed transaction is found how quickly does BoI refund the money? On a proper credit card the dispute process is pretty straight forward, but on a debt card the customer is out of pocket immediately.

Disputed transactions are based on a case by case basis.

ArrBee wrote: »

-when using a visa debit card overseas for example. how do I control if it is used as a visa vs as a normal debit card? or is this not possible and visa fees will start applying to transactions.

Bank of Ireland offer both credit and debit cards. Our debit card(previously Laser) is a Visa Debit card. This means when you use your Visa Debit card at home or abroad, the money in your current account is generally deducted from your available funds immediately. Our fees and charges have remained unchanged - so the fees and charges you would have paid for Laser remains for Visa Debit.

The fees for using your Visa Debit card abroad would be:
-At an atm machine is 3.5% and it does have a minimum charge of €3.17 with a maximum charge of €11.43 per transaction.
-At a point of sale, ie a retailer, is 1.75% and it has a minimum charge of €0.46 with a maximum charge of €11.43 per transaction.

I hope this answers your questions.
Thanks
Linda

ArrBee

Thanks for answering my questions.
It is good to see I can request a card without the contactless payment feature.


Are you saying that with a current laser card overseas ATM withdrawals have a 3.5% fee (min 3.17 and max 11.43), and PoS has 1.75% (min 0.46 max 11.43)
and that these same fees will continue with visa debit?

(I tried looking for the fee schedule for laser but couldn't find it, sorry.)

Cheers,
RB

Bank of Ireland: Linda

Hi ArrBee,

Please see the fees and charges here. It shows what the charges would have been for Laser and Visa Debit. Also the charges would be on the schedule of fees and charges here.

Thanks
Linda

fasttalkerchat

If you don't want a debit card just cut it up. The old lazer cards are finished now anyway.

Greenmachine

Sorry to hijack the thread...

Just a few related questions linda. I am a current BOI whose account has a laser card. Just wondering do I have to wait till my card expires before I will be given a Visa Debit card. Will there be a fee for changing the card early if it is at all possible?

Thanks

Bank of Ireland: Laura

Hi Greenmachine.

We are currently replacing all Laser cards with Visa Debit cards on a phased basis. We expect to have the roll-out complete by the end of September 2012. You will receive your replacement Visa Debit free of charge.

Outside of the roll-out, only Laser cards that are reported lost, stolen or damaged will be replaced with a Visa Debit card. A charge of €5.90 will apply.

Thanks for your query.
Laura

ArrBee

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If you don't want a debit card just cut it up. The old lazer cards are finished now anyway.

That's the problem. I do want a debit card.
I just don't want a visa debit card.

Its a shame that the old laser cards are finished as they provided what I needed.

Nonoperational

What difference does it make? Anyway the vast majority of customers want a visa debit and soon enough all banks will be issuing them as standard so there's nothing you can do about it.

ArrBee

Bank of Ireland: Linda wrote: »

Hi ArrBee,

Please see the fees and charges here. It shows what the charges would have been for Laser and Visa Debit. Also the charges would be on the schedule of fees and charges here.

Thanks
Linda

Hi Linda,

I found those fees alright.
What I didn't find was the standard laser card fees. or is it the same?


also, just wanted to check...
The fees table you linked looks like using the visa debit card carries no additional costs (just normal account transaction fees) if used within the EU.
Is that right?

Cheers,
Rb

ArrBee

gpf101 wrote: »

What difference does it make? Anyway the vast majority of customers want a visa debit and soon enough all banks will be issuing them as standard so there's nothing you can do about it.

You are right. Most customers do want one.
Although I don't understand why, nothing I am wanting should stop someone else from having one.

The difference between them is that right now if someone takes my laser card, there is not a lot they can do with it.
There are a few places that allow internet transactions with an unverified laser card, but not too many.
The flipside to that is there are millions of places which will accept visa online and allow your account to be cleaned out. Yes, there is a dispute process and I'm sure you'll get your money back but after how long?
With a credit card you are not out of pocket for fraudulent transactions. On a debit card you are.

If I won't be using the visa aspect of my debt card then all it does is sit there lessening the security of my money.
how is that a good thing?


The only benefit that I can see is for people who can't get or don't want a credit card. which is fair enough.
But I really don't understand why someone who already has a credit card would want one.

jameshayes

Bank of Ireland: Tara

ArrBee wrote: »

I found those fees alright.
What I didn't find was the standard laser card fees. or is it the same?

also, just wanted to check...
The fees table you linked looks like using the visa debit card carries no additional costs (just normal account transaction fees) if used within the EU.
Is that right?

Hi ArrBee,

Yes, the fees for using a Visa Debit card are the very same as the fees for Laser cards. If you are using either card within the EU or EEA the only fee applicable is the current account transaction fee of 28c.

ArrBee wrote: »

The difference between them is that right now if someone takes my laser card, there is not a lot they can do with it.
There are a few places that allow internet transactions with an unverified laser card, but not too many.
The flipside to that is there are millions of places which will accept visa online and allow your account to be cleaned out.

You also have the added benefit of 'Verified by Visa' when using your Visa Debit card for online purchases, this facility is not available on Laser cards.

Hope this helps but if you do have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks
Tara

ArrBee

Thanks Tara.

I was concerned that using a debit visa at a PoS which takes visa and laser would result in a visa transaction with different fee structure to laser. But it looks like that is not the case.
Great.

Unfortunately the Verified by Visa is not as secure as not having visa on my debit card, although it is better than nothing. The problem is that it has to be supported by the merchant for it to be of any benefit. So I can't see this being a practical fraud prevention until 90% of online merchants use the system.

There are 2 outstanding questions already asked above.
I hope that someone there can find the answers and report back?

1. Can the back end system at the bank remove the visa processing functionality from an individual card while retaining normal debit functionality? (Consider it like blocking all visa transactions if say the card was lost.)

2. Does any of the transactional data leave the BoI when using a visa debit card.
eg. if I purchase something with a visa debit card do Visa own the purchasing data or do they have access to it, or does it stay within the BoI?


Cheers,
RB

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi RB,

ArrBee wrote: »

1. Can the back end system at the bank remove the visa processing functionality from an individual card while retaining normal debit functionality? (Consider it like blocking all visa transactions if say the card was lost.)

No, this cannot be done. Visa supports the debit functionality, without it you would just have an ATM-only card.

ArrBee wrote: »

2. Does any of the transactional data leave the BoI when using a visa debit card.
eg. if I purchase something with a visa debit card do Visa own the purchasing data or do they have access to it, or does it stay within the BoI?

We'll need to look into this for you to see if we can get any further information. As soon as we have anything, we'll post back here.

Thanks for your queries,
Graham

fasttalkerchat

Graham, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't BOI provide an ATM only card?
I was given one up north a few years ago and it still works.

ArrBee

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Graham, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't BOI provide an ATM only card?
I was given one up north a few years ago and it still works.

From memory I think they do.
I'm sure BoI will give a proper answer though.

If only there was a ATM and PoS card which needed a pin number and couldn't be used online...
That would be perfect.

Bank of Ireland: Pat

Hi fasttalkerchat and ArrBee,

Bank of Ireland do provide an ATM only card. It doesn't however have Point of Sale capabilities.

If you decide that you do want to have your Visa Debit card cancelled and replaced with an ATM only card, just ring Banking365 on 0818 365 365 and they will be able to arrange it for you over the phone.

ArrBee wrote: »

2. Does any of the transactional data leave the BoI when using a visa debit card.
eg. if I purchase something with a visa debit card do Visa own the purchasing data or do they have access to it, or does it stay within the BoI?

We're still looking into this query for you and will post back here when we have some more information.

I hope this helps.

Thanks
Pat

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi RB,

ArrBee wrote: »

2. Does any of the transactional data leave the BoI when using a visa debit card.
eg. if I purchase something with a visa debit card do Visa own the purchasing data or do they have access to it, or does it stay within the BoI?

For security reasons, as this is business sensitive information, we can't provide any detail about the functionality of our systems.

Thanks again for your posts. If we can help you with anything else, please let us know.
Graham

ArrBee

Bank of Ireland: Graham wrote: »

Hi RB,



For security reasons, as this is business sensitive information, we can't provide any detail about the functionality of our systems.

Thanks again for your posts. If we can help you with anything else, please let us know.
Graham

Thanks for trying.

I am a little disappointed as it's actually my personal information rather than business sensitive information we are talking about.

In general the banking privacy policies I've seen here are very loose compared to those in other countries and I'd be concerned if the reason Visa Debt cards are so popular was because Visa are providing them free (banks cut costs) in exchange for all of the transactional data.

Talk about a rock and a hard place.

Greenmachine

Received my new card recently. Delighted to have it. Was sure I would be way down the list. It was due for renewal for ages.

Bank of Ireland: Tara

Hi Greenmachine,

Thanks for your post, delighted to hear you've received your new Visa Debit card.

Cheers
Tara

Rochester

My teenager got her visa debit and is delighted. Well done BOI

antomack

Just want to check on the earlier post from July 13th bu BOI-Pat that an 'ATM ONLY' card is still and will be for the foreseeable future an option for BOI customers.

I'm asking because I was earlier on to 0818-365365 and was told that from now on there is only a VISA Debit Card option available and there was no 'ATM ONLY' option. It was suggested that so long as I just use the debit card for ATM withdrawals and not for VISA debit transactions then I would only ever be charged the €2.50 government duty for ATM and not the combined €5 for ATM and debit card.

Bank of Ireland: Billy

Hi antomack,

Thanks for your question.

To add to Pat's earlier post, all Laser Cards are being replaced with Visa Debit and the rollout is on schedule and should be completed by the end of September. The reason we are changing to Visa Debit is that they offer more functionality than Laser which includes:

Greater worldwide acceptance
Wider online acceptance
Greater convenience when you shop
Verified by Visa – great security online
Greater consumer protection
Contactless payments

While it is possible to have a standard ATM card, please be aware that this card cannot be used outside Ireland and does not have Point of Sale capabilities.

As my colleague in Banking 365 suggested, it is possible to use the Visa Debit Card for ATM withdrawals only and only be charged €2.50 Government Duty.

We have just been notified of an option to have an ATM Card only.
If you would prefer to have the standard card, you will need to call Banking 365 again on 0818 365 355 and a representative will offer assistance.

Thanks

Billy

ArrBee

It's just a shame that your money is less secure with a visa debit card and that when you use it your transaction information is provided to Visa international.

Skerries

Can I ask about the contactless feature as I'm not sure about it
Where currently accepts this feature as in do current POS systems use it or do they have to get a new machine?
The only place I have used it was in McDonalds in Liverpool as I saw someone using it there

Bank of Ireland: Billy

Hi Skerries,

Thank you for your questions.

The Visa website here should should help with any questions you have about Visa Debit.
Thanks

Billy

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi RB,

Visa Debit incorporates additional advanced security features including 3DSecure, making transactions more secure. Customers have additional protection where products are ordered and are not delivered or are faulty. More detail on how secure paying with Visa is can be found on their website at http://www.visa.ie/visa_ireland/security.aspx

Thanks,
Graham