Ireland and choice

ArmaniJeanss

Shenshen wrote: »

Thanks for mentioning the Dutch : Edam, Gouda, Tilsit, Masdaam... There is a lot of variety for a relatively small country.

And a journey to the Uk actually sparked the ide to this thread : Wensleydale, Leichester, Glouchester, Cheshire, Stilton. My husband is from England, and the fact that you can get such choice in every Tesco's over there, but basically only cheddar here is something that has been bugging him for some 10 years now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0

Tabnabs

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

In London anyway they have a crazy amount of choice when it comes to beers, more than anywhere else I've ever been in the world

London, Aberdeen, Yarmouth, Manchester, I see the same stuff again and again. North of the border I've been in pubs with one larger on tap :eek:

Shenshen

Tabnabs wrote: »

And in a large provincial town in the Netherlands they had a street vendor selling Edam by the cartload and doing roaring trade, it was the only cheese I can remember them selling in any significant numbers. I worked there for a year and it's all we were ever offered in hotels etc.

And despite your selection of cheeses in Tesco UK, chedder is still their favourite... (and any large supermarket here will have the same selections if you actually go looking for it).

The only supermarket here I've ever found selling English cheese is Marks&Spencers, which is rather difficult to get to if you don't live in the city centre.

mikemac1

We've got red lemonade

The Brits do not

We win :cool:

Sykk

stevenmu wrote: »

Like most things about us Irish it comes back to begrudgery.

If you want a different cheese, then it must be because you think it's better than the cheddar that I have. Therefore it also means that there's something wrong with my cheddar. And, if you want better cheese, then you also must think that you're better than I am. Who the f*ck do you think you are lording it over us with your posh camembert, there's nothing wrong with a bit of cheddar, I've been eating it all my life and it never did me any harm. What's that? Brie? Brie is it now, it's far from Brie you were reared!


Well, personally I love lots of different cheeses, and I really love trying all types of beers, but you get the point.

This.

It's the same kinda thing when I walk into any pub and ask if they serve any decent German/Belgian beer.. Return response as if I've ten heads.. God forbid I should want anything than the piss served on tap.

Also when I don't want any of said piss, my mates, with the same piss in hand think I think I'm better than them.

Salt001

Its not just the beer or the cheese,what about fish?.
We are an island nation, we are surrounded by water and stuff that lives in the water and what do we eat?, we eat cod. .
Sometimes smoked cod if we are feeling like living on the edge .
Do you know how long it took Irish people to accept that you could actually get fish fingers that were made from pollock??.
Although I'm not sure that fish fingers actually qualify as fish.
We eat a sliver or two of smoked salmon at Christmas and the odd prawn cocktail and thats about the height of it .
Oh and a nice slice of white fish on Fridays .

BraziliaNZ

For a tiny country we have a fair bit of range IMO

Salt001

mikemac1 wrote: »

We've got red lemonade

The Brits do not

We win :cool:

They have brown lemonade :eek:.
Have you ever seen it ,it looks very weird

BraziliaNZ

Salt001 wrote: »

Its not just the beer or the cheese,what about fish?.
We are an island nation, we are surrounded by water and stuff that lives in the water and what do we eat?, we eat cod. .
Sometimes smoked cod if we are feeling like living on the edge .
Do you know how long it took Irish people to accept that you could actually get fish fingers that were made from pollock??.
Although I'm not sure that fish fingers actually qualify as fish.
We eat a sliver or two of smoked salmon at Christmas and the odd prawn cocktail and thats about the height of it .
Oh and a nice slice of white fish on Fridays .

I was raised on cod, mackerel, ray, pollock, haddock, whiting, sea bream, crabs, etc etc. So speak for yourself!

Shenshen

Salt001 wrote: »

Its not just the beer or the cheese,what about fish?.
We are an island nation, we are surrounded by water and stuff that lives in the water and what do we eat?, we eat cod. .
Sometimes smoked cod if we are feeling like living on the edge .
Do you know how long it took Irish people to accept that you could actually get fish fingers that were made from pollock??.
Although I'm not sure that fish fingers actually qualify as fish.
We eat a sliver or two of smoked salmon at Christmas and the odd prawn cocktail and thats about the height of it .
Oh and a nice slice of white fish on Fridays .

I'm vegetarian, so I wouldn't really know, but that seems... Well, almost silly. Surely there are other fish in the water? Shellfish? Squid?

Salt001

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm vegetarian, so I wouldn't really know, but that seems... Well, almost silly. Surely there are other fish in the water? Shellfish? Squid?

Thats the point, the seas are teaming with fish but we will only eat what we have always eaten :D

rugrats

Tabnabs wrote: »

Your local supervalu/centre will have a limited choice of cheese varieties, but go to any decent sized supermarket and there's a wide choice to be had. It really isn't too different from most other countries.

Supervalu definitely do the "specialist" cheeses. Just so ya know...

BraziliaNZ

Salt001 wrote: »

Thats the point, the seas are teaming with fish but we will only eat what we have always eaten :D

Of anyone I know who likes fish in Ireland they eat all sorts. Who are you talking about here? Aulfellas who go to the chipper after a few pints on a Friday? Well what do you expect, they probably only served cod back in their day

Salt001

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Of anyone I know who likes fish in Ireland they eat all sorts. Who are you talking about here? Aulfellas who go to the chipper after a few pints on a Friday? Well what do you expect, they probably only served cod back in their day

I was speaking slightly tongue in cheek here, that was the reason for all the smilies :D:D:D.
But Irish people still are not great fish eaters. We have improved a lot in recent years but a vast amount of us still don't try anything outside of the usual range imo.

BraziliaNZ

Salt001 wrote: »

I was speaking slightly tongue in cheek here, that was the reason for all the smilies :D:D:D.
But Irish people still are not great fish eaters. We have improved a lot in recent years but a vast amount of us still don't try anything outside of the usual range imo.

Yeah I think you have a point really. The amount of people who wont touch seafood at all is incredible given it's an island too. But most people I know who do eat fish eat all sorts these days.

Sarn

Shenshen wrote: »

My husband is from England, and the fact that you can get such choice in every Tesco's over there, but basically only cheddar here is something that has been bugging him for some 10 years now.

You must have a fairly crap Tesco near you. The two Tescos that I use have a reasonably wide range of cheeses. Granted there's a lot of cheddar, but they also stock a range of European cheeses. Brie, edam and goat's cheese weren't that hard to come by either 20 years ago.

Shenshen

Sarn wrote: »

You must have a fairly crap Tesco near you. The two Tescos that I use have a reasonably wide range of cheeses. Granted there's a lot of cheddar, but they also stock a range of European cheeses. Brie, edam and goat's cheese weren't that hard to come by either 20 years ago.

We've got a good few around here, including two very large ones.
Yes, they do now stock some European cheeses, but no English ones, which are the ones my husband misses the most.

golden lane

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Of anyone I know who likes fish in Ireland they eat all sorts. Who are you talking about here? Aulfellas who go to the chipper after a few pints on a Friday? Well what do you expect, they probably only served cod back in their day

cod, smoked cod, ray, and whiting..were regular in the old days......there were herring sellers on nearly every street corner....

winkles and cockles...were often eaten......

Butterface

I think it depends where you shop. There are two Supervalus in the town where I'm from. Only one has a decent cheese section. Far superior to Lidl/Aldi - lots of Irish cheeses, Knockanore, Ardagh etc.. and no, not just plain cheddar - Irish produced goat's cheese, brie, blue cheeses. Then there are the likes of Sheridan's cheesemongers in Galway which stock local handmade cheese, as well as cheeses from Europe.

In Ireland, not every supermarket under the one brand stocks the same products. They stock what will sell in that particular branch, based on previous sales or trends etc.

I live in a small town in the UK midlands now, and the Tesco there has atrocious choice. Whatever you say about Irish cheddar being mass produced muck, at least there is a selection of Irish brands - Dubliner, Charleville, Kilmeaden etc.. all of which you will see stocked in every Tesco in Ireland, along with their own brand. What I find in the Tescos in the UK is mostly their own brand of mass produced processed cheeses, with very little room for local brands.

rgmmg

Shenshen wrote: »

We've got a good few around here, including two very large ones.
Yes, they do now stock some European cheeses, but no English ones, which are the ones my husband misses the most.

Cheeses - Sounds like you've spotted a gap in the market? :pac:

Sarn

Shenshen wrote: »

We've got a good few around here, including two very large ones.
Yes, they do now stock some European cheeses, but no English ones, which are the ones my husband misses the most.

I haven't noticed too many English cheeses, some Stilton and Wensleydale is about it.

Thankfully when it comes to alcohol, at least some pubs will stock bottles of non-standard beers/lagers. While I'd generally be a Guinness drinker, over the summer something different is nice beyond Heineken/Carlsberg.

Wibbs

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I was raised on cod, mackerel, ray, pollock, haddock, whiting, sea bream, crabs, etc etc. So speak for yourself!

Fair enough B, but I read somewhere or other that we eat the least amount of fish per capita in Europe. We export more to Portugal(IIRC, might be Spain) in a year than we eat ourselves.

Big Nasty

The lack of choice in pubs really bothers me. I love a good pint of Guinness but am very attached to some Belgian, German, Czech and American beers that you can't get in most pubs bar the ones specialising in craft / 'alternative' beers. The problem is I rarely go to the city centre (Dublin) and my (most) local pubs only serve main stream beers. I know food menus aren't all that varied in Ireland either but how would restaurants compete if they all had identical menus like pubs do for drinks?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Wibbs wrote: »

Fair enough B, but I read somewhere or other that we eat the least amount of fish per capita in Europe. We export more to Portugal(IIRC, might be Spain) in a year than we eat ourselves.

Strangely, no one mentioned salmon. Probably one of those that we export more so than eat.

We did take to Sushi very well, though, but I expect that was a case of going ablong with the in-crowd and is as much a failure to try some initiiative as much as anything else.

Naomi00

Shenshen wrote: »

Hah, you thought this was going to be about procreation, didn't you?
Sorry to disappoint.

No, this is about the choices, or rather the limits of them, for Irish customers.

I'm not originally from Ireland, but please don't misunderstand this thread as a complaint. It's about a puzzling phenomenon I've observed as a consumer here, a distinct and rather inexplicable lack of choice.

Take cheese, for example. It's fair to say that the Irish are a nation of dairy-lovers. They are seriously into their dairy.
Yet when it comes to cheese, it's cheddar. Lots and lots of different brands, but still, all cheddar. It's only quite recently that some other kinds of cheese are making their appearance on regular supermarket shelves, both international and Irish ones. But they still aren't anywhere near as prevalent as the cheddars.
So, why the obsession with just one type of (English!) cheese? What happened there?

Also, it's equally obvious that the Irish love their drink. People will give you directions using only pubs as landmarks. They may not know the name of the street they're on, but they will know the names of the 5 pubs on it.
Yet, nearly every single pub the length and breadth of this country will serve the same handful of drinks : the same 5 or 6 types of beer, the same 2 types of red and 2 types of white, the same cider and the same whiskeys.
As someone used to pubs and bars differing vastly in what drinks they have (in my home town, no two bars are likely to serve the same kinds of beers on tab), I'm finding this strange. Supermarkets and off licenses offer a little more choice, but still essentially the same drinks.
When did that happen? I know it's getting a little better, with breweries like the Porterhouse and the Franciscan Well, but I still can't really understand when 4 million people decided that all they wanted was Guinness and Heineken?

Does anyone have an explanation, an idea? Or any thoughts? Or has this never ever struck you as odd?

You must be going to be wrong places or something. There's loads of artisan food shops and people who make their own cheese etc where I live and I've never heard of there being a lack of choice with alcohol either.

Ted Mosby

Naomi00 wrote: »

You must be going to be wrong places or something. There's loads of artisan food shops and people who make their own cheese etc where I live and I've never heard of there being a lack of choice with alcohol either.

Things have improved marginally from the 1980s when the "Holy Trinity" of Guinness, Harp and Smithwicks" dominated virtually every pub in the country. O'Neills in Suffolk Street, the Porterhouse and a handful of other pubs buck that by having a decent range of craft beers available, but it is still the exception rather than the rule. Having twelve identikit mass produced lagers is not really choice.

I remember my old work local in D2 in the mid 1990s carried a Dublin craft beer for a time, they didn't after a while because the management for some reason carried an extra tap of a well known mass produced beer as a substitute.

It suits mass producers to have little choice. Better profit margins come out of conservative punters sticking to one product. The half-pence wont add themselves to the shivering half-pence, to paraphrase Yeats.

guitarzero

This I've noticed. When I've been with foreign folks they can often get caught up in going on about this type of food and that type of drink like some obsession. You put a pepper in an omellete and suddenly it takes on some other kind of pleasure to the senses.
I think its just tradition. You take an Irish lad on holiday to a fancy restaurant "I'll have the chicken nuggests and chips". As far as I know, cuisine was never really something Irish cultivated, perhaps more out of hard times than anything, who knows????

uncle_sam_ie

I'm well use to this now OP. The Irish are just conservative when it comes to food. I was in New York a few years back and went to lunch with my wife (Irish) and her friend's from Cork. We found this deli near central park and my eye's popped out when we entered. I thought this is what I miss. They must of had over a hundred different sandwiches to choose from. The smell from all the different foods cooking was just divine. I was about 25 minutes waiting in line to get served and I still couldn't decide what to get. After ordering I turned to my wife to see what she was getting and to my surprise she asked your man if she could get a plain ham sandwich. Her friends all had the same. I had to pick my jaw off the ground. I said you can get that at home why not try something different but, nope. It's just the way it is with the Irish. The first thing I do when I get back over to California is hit a good Mexican taco stand.

Lyaiera

Naomi00 wrote: »

You must be going to be wrong places or something. There's loads of artisan food shops and people who make their own cheese etc where I live and I've never heard of there being a lack of choice with alcohol either.

I agree with you Naomi. There's fcuktonnes of small dairies producing cheeses all over Ireland, be it cheddars, blue cheeses (Cashel Blue is one of the most respected blue cheeses going,) soft cheese, goat's cheese, etc. The craft beer thing has taken off massively: Dungarvan, Metalman, Fran Well, Messrs Maguire, Ballyferriter, Trouble's Dark Arts, Porterhouse, White Gypsy, 8 Degrees, Galway Hooker, etc. I actually have a choice of beers I'd want to drink in more pubs than I could hit in a weekend, there's even enough bars serving decent wine that I couldn't hit all the wine bars in a single night. There's a huge amount of small bakers (of bread and cakes, not to mention the amount of places doing cupcakes.) Fish has always been varied: monkfish, John Dory, sea bream, tuna, pollock, cod, haddock, mackerel, all the shellfish, squid, crab, lobster, etc. I can go into a fair few bars and eat olives with my drink. Similarly there are loads of places actually selling decent olives, normal black and green, in chili flakes, with pimento, with almonds, in parsley, in garlic, etc. There's a load of decent coffee importers around and the range of teas I can get is fairly wide as well.

Yeah, I have no idea what people are talking about here. It's like the people who come back from abroad and say, "There's nothing to do in Ireland, there's so much stuff going on abroad!" Actually, no. There's tonnes going on in Ireland you're just too lazy to bother looking for it or doing it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Naomi00 wrote: »

You must be going to be wrong places or something. There's loads of artisan food shops and people who make their own cheese etc where I live and I've never heard of there being a lack of choice with alcohol either.

That's because thy don't know what choice is. When it comes to beer and bars. Seriously - the probelm is people don't know exactly what's out there. I go 100 miles in any given direction and I have a completely different slelection of beers to choose from. There is also a much wider variety of bar here as well. In Ireland, I get the same beers in the same pub with the same music and tv in he same atmousphere eight times out of ten.

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I'm well use to this now OP. The Irish are just conservative when it comes to food. I was in New York a few years back and went to lunch with my wife (Irish) and her friend's from Cork. We found this deli near central park and my eye's popped out when we entered. I thought this is what I miss. They must of had over a hundred different sandwiches to choose from. The smell from all the different foods cooking was just divine. I was about 25 minutes waiting in line to get served and I still couldn't decide what to get. After ordering I turned to my wife to see what she was getting and to my surprise she asked your man if she could get a plain ham sandwich. Her friends all had the same. I had to pick my jaw off the ground. I said you can get that at home why not try something different but, nope. It's just the way it is with the Irish. The first thing I do when I get back over to California is hit a good Mexican taco stand.

The conservatism is not just linked to food. I mean, it's only recently we actually started voting for different politicians!

Chauncey

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I'm well use to this now OP. The Irish are just conservative when it comes to food. I was in New York a few years back and went to lunch with my wife (Irish) and her friend's from Cork. We found this deli near central park and my eye's popped out when we entered. I thought this is what I miss. They must of had over a hundred different sandwiches to choose from. The smell from all the different foods cooking was just divine. I was about 25 minutes waiting in line to get served and I still couldn't decide what to get. After ordering I turned to my wife to see what she was getting and to my surprise she asked your man if she could get a plain ham sandwich. Her friends all had the same. I had to pick my jaw off the ground. I said you can get that at home why not try something different but, nope. It's just the way it is with the Irish. The first thing I do when I get back over to California is hit a good Mexican taco stand.

Ha, imagine that. Those stupid ****ers buying what they wanted and not what you wanted. Crazy.

Toby Take a Bow

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The Irish don't like change, simple as. We like what we were brought up with, we like tradition, we like what we know and that's all there is to it. Change means something we may not like.

But things are changing, which would suggest that the Irish aren't really how you portray them; or are at least open to change.

I would say that it's because we're a fairly isolated and poor country. When we became less isolated (since the 70s or so) and richer (since the late 90s or so) we began to experiment and be able to import/produce different things.

I can't explain the fish thing, however. Not only do we seem to be exporting and not eating it, but places like Marks and Tesco are importing cod and salmon to us. Nuts.

uncle_sam_ie

Chauncey wrote: »

Ha, imagine that. Those stupid ****ers buying what they wanted and not what you wanted. Crazy.

No, what's crazy is not wanting to try new things.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

I_smell_fear

Yes! We need more cheese in pubs!

Chauncey

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

No, what's crazy is not wanting to try new things.

Do tell, what wonderful sandwich did you order on that particular occasion?
I only ask so I can judge you and yours harshly based on what you eat.

mikemac1

I want a mug of coffee and a ham sandwich, not an espresso and a panini

That's for them eyetalians

mattjack

Would it be possible to get Guinness flavoured cheese ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

But things are changing, which would suggest that the Irish aren't really how you portray them; or are at least open to change.

I would say that it's because we're a fairly isolated and poor country. When we became less isolated (since the 70s or so) and richer (since the late 90s or so) we began to experiment and be able to import/produce different things.

I can't explain the fish thing, however. Not only do we seem to be exporting and not eating it, but places like Marks and Tesco are importing cod and salmon to us. Nuts.

Not a fish eater, so neither can I.

The problem with change is that we've just changed one opressor for another. In the 60s and 70s we had the chruch telling us what to do and now we have the taboilds and celeb culture. And I don't care how much people say "oh I only read it because it's free, I don't actually beleive what's in it", it's utter bull****. These rags do influence you if you read them.

So, at the end of the day, have we really changed? We're more aware of what's around us, yes, but if we choose to turn our back on it and retrwat into our own little cocoon then what difference does it make what or how much is out there?

I quote Morpheus in "The Matrix": "You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

nlgbbbblth

Lyaiera wrote: »

I agree with you Naomi. There's fcuktonnes of small dairies producing cheeses all over Ireland, be it cheddars, blue cheeses (Cashel Blue is one of the most respected blue cheeses going,) soft cheese, goat's cheese, etc. The craft beer thing has taken off massively: Dungarvan, Metalman, Fran Well, Messrs Maguire, Ballyferriter, Trouble's Dark Arts, Porterhouse, White Gypsy, 8 Degrees, Galway Hooker, etc. I actually have a choice of beers I'd want to drink in more pubs than I could hit in a weekend, there's even enough bars serving decent wine that I couldn't hit all the wine bars in a single night. There's a huge amount of small bakers (of bread and cakes, not to mention the amount of places doing cupcakes.) Fish has always been varied: monkfish, John Dory, sea bream, tuna, pollock, cod, haddock, mackerel, all the shellfish, squid, crab, lobster, etc. I can go into a fair few bars and eat olives with my drink. Similarly there are loads of places actually selling decent olives, normal black and green, in chili flakes, with pimento, with almonds, in parsley, in garlic, etc. There's a load of decent coffee importers around and the range of teas I can get is fairly wide as well.

Yeah, I have no idea what people are talking about here. It's like the people who come back from abroad and say, "There's nothing to do in Ireland, there's so much stuff going on abroad!" Actually, no. There's tonnes going on in Ireland you're just too lazy to bother looking for it or doing it.

Do you live in Dublin?

Outside Dublin - when it comes to pubs - the choice is mostly pitiful. I end up drinking Smithwicks by default.

To be fair, both the off licences and supermarkets have a much better selection of ales.

Big Nasty

Chauncey wrote: »

Do tell, what wonderful sandwich did you order on that particular occasion?
I only ask so I can judge you and yours harshly based on what you eat.

I bet it was pastrami on rye! :pac:

inforfun

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

To twist it around a little, when I go to Europe (and I've no idea what country you are from) I'm always a little surprised how often a bar will only sell one or two beers on tap.
Go to the next bar and again only one or two beers on tap. Fair enough its quite likely two different beers than the first bar which is definitely variety of a kind.
But I'm not such its that much better a system than every bar having the same seven or eight beers on tap like in Ireland.

Can tell you the reason for only 1 or 2 beers on tap in Holland. Most pubs are owned/financed by breweries. So there is no way you will be selling a competitors brand

Tabnabs wrote: »

And in a large provincial town in the Netherlands they had a street vendor selling Edam by the cartload and doing roaring trade, it was the only cheese I can remember them selling in any significant numbers. I worked there for a year and it's all we were ever offered in hotels etc.

Edam might just be one kind of cheese but you have the choice in several stages of maturity. All having their own different taste. Youngest being 3 weeks, older 1 year or older.

As you can guess from above, I am Dutch.
A lack of choice in a lot of things i always thought, Ireland being an island will make things too expensive to import.
But what about something basic as fresh veggies? Hardly any choice here.
Stuff to put on bread, if it wasnt for Lidl and Aldi all i would be putting on bread here is cheddar, ham or turkey.

First time i went shopping i ended up in Dunnes and thought on first siight: nice, lots of meat for on bread. Till i found out it was basically just a wall of ham i was staring at.

Lyaiera

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Do you live in Dublin?

Outside Dublin - when it comes to pubs - the choice is mostly pitiful. I end up drinking Smithwicks by default.

To be fair, both the off licences and supermarkets have a much better selection of ales.

I'm in Cork.

Edit: So in fairness, half the pubs serving good beer are owned by the same guy, but even still...

nlgbbbblth

Lyaiera wrote: »

I'm in Cork.

Edit: So in fairness, half the pubs serving good beer are owned by the same guy, but even still...

Fair enough - but it's a decent-sized city so I'm not surprised you have pubs that offer a proper range of beers.

Chauncey

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

A fine piece of advice. I do hope you will take it.

Now, how about you answer my question, hmmm?

uncle_sam_ie

Chauncey wrote: »

A fine piece of advice. I do hope you will take it.

Now, how about you answer my question, hmmm?

Dude, I have no idea what ate 11 years ago at that deli.

Gbear

I think while none of the elements that make up our culture - the former poverty, the catholic-irish begrudgery and the isolation, are unique, they seem to come together quite effectively to make us a fairly conservative bunch when it comes to food.

There's definite signs of improvement. Hopefully by the time I have kids and they're my age, they'll be taking the piss at how backwards i was for the total lack of jellyfish, italian/thai fusion dishes and tea made from the tears of koalas, in my diet.

Chauncey

inforfun wrote: »

But what about something basic as fresh veggies? Hardly any choice here.
Stuff to put on bread, if it wasnt for Lidl and Aldi all i would be putting on bread here is cheddar, ham or turkey.

Yes, I agree. When I first came here I couldn't believe the lack of food beyond cheddar, ham and turkey.

It was many, many, many years before I found a place to buy beef, chicken, lamb, fish, fruit, vegetables and so on. Luckily, a kind soul told me about the vegetable shops, the butchers, the supermarkets, the bakeries and so on and then, lo, I was complete!

Chauncey

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

Dude, I have no idea what ate 11 years ago at that deli.

Fair enough.

af_thefragile

If anything there's too much choice and it spoils people...