Are We an Immature and Irresponsible Society?

Higher

It seems in every aspect of Irish life we come across as immature and irresponsible. Our Taoiseach cries to newspapers of being bullied, our economy is in tatters because of reckless bankers, we are one of the worst nations for getting drunk. When you compare us to the French or the Germans we really do come across as irresponsible children.

In how many countries can you see hoardes of adults in their 30s falling around the place on a Saturday night? I've never seen a German girl squatting down and taking a piss in the open at a festival in Germany.

When was the last time you heard about a certain nationality being banned from a hostel?

Should we be ashamed of ourselves? Is it time we stop blaming everyone else for our problems and take responsibility?

J.R Tolkein basing the hobbits on Irish people makes a lot of sense right now..

Roadend

We're only having the craic sure

FatherLen

Higher wrote: »

J.R Tolkein basing the hobbits on Irish people makes a lot of sense right now..

is that true???

DrumSteve

We do like to analyse ourselves don't we.

ThinkAboutIt

The country has a drink problem, simple as. Because it is so wide ranging we will never deal with it.

Feeona

Higher wrote: »

When was the last time you heard about a certain nationality being banned from a hostel?

Last week, I think

hondasam

I think all the things you listed OP are not just an Irish thing, these things happen the world over.
I agree we have a drinking culture which is out of control.

mikemac1

Germans have drinks in the morning and at lunch and have beers in their office canteen. So do the Dutch

The Brits are fond of their liquid lunches

Neither of these happen in Irish workplaces in my experience


Why the self loathing OP?

Roadend

mikemac1 wrote: »

Germans have drinks in the morning and at lunch and have beers in their office canteen. So do the Dutch

The Brits are fond of their liquid lunches

Neither of these happen in Irish workplaces in my experience

For obvious reasons I'd have thought........

mikemac1

Just come out and say the obvious reason

chin_grin

mikemac1 wrote: »

Just come out and say the obvious reason

....Catholicism?



:pac:

Pushtrak

Extend the "We" to humanity, and yes, I would certainly say so. But on the microcosm of Ireland/Irish, I guess the truism holds.


AH answer: Pull my finger.

Orim

Higher wrote: »

I've never seen a German girl squatting down and taking a piss in the open at a festival in Germany.

Then you've never been to a festival in Germany.

Tombi!

Okay now look, just because you don't know where the good S&M dungeons are in Germany doesn't mean they don't exist.

But yes, Ireland is a mess and probably will be for a long time.

chin_grin

Do you know what the problem with x is? It's full of x.

Insert Country/nationality for x.

eoins23456

no were ****in legends!

hytrogen

Time for a recession-session

eoins23456

eoins23456 wrote: »

no were ****in legends!

but not anymore?

Red_Wake

I'd say our problem is we're full of Irish.

AnonoBoy

Until most of us are spending all our disposable income on whoopee cushions I wouldn't agree.

charlemont

The op has a few good points.

Ellis Dee

Are we an immature and irresponsible society?

I actually don't believe we are very greatly different from any other post-colonial, reasonably developed society with a fairly high material standard of living.:):)

We differ significantly from other European countries in that, perhaps, we have a higher density per capita of self-hating eejits who love to extrapolate a few examples into sweeping generalisations. People like that are not exclusively an Irish phenomenon; they are to be found everywhere and often are the way they are because they have little experience of living in foreign countries for longer periods.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

daltonmd

mikemac1 wrote: »

Germans have drinks in the morning and at lunch and have beers in their office canteen. So do the Dutch

The Brits are fond of their liquid lunches

Neither of these happen in Irish workplaces in my experience


Why the self loathing OP?

I lived in Germany for ten years and never worked with a German who drank during work hours, never seen beer in German canteens, even attending the Munich Beer festival (for ten years in a row) I never saw the Germans behaving like the Irish do.

It could be the case that it was this way many years ago, but as with every country, health and safety legislation banned this a long time ago.

Blondini

Higher wrote: »

I've never seen a German girl squatting down and taking a piss in the open at a festival in Germany.

.. then you ain't born yet boy

Blondini

charlemont wrote: »

The op has a few good points.

I'd love a few good pints..

Dyr

yes we are father, oh god YES. God forgive me but we'd be better off handing the place back to the british, we're not fit for anything father. Beat me father beat me, I deserve it etc etc

twinQuins

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Are we an immature and irresponsible society?

I actually don't believe we are very greatly different from any other post-colonial, reasonably developed society with a fairly high material standard of living.:):)

We differ significantly from other European countries in that, perhaps, we have a higher density per capita of self-hating eejits who love to extrapolate a few examples into sweeping generalisations. People like that are not exclusively an Irish phenomenon; they are to be found everywhere and often are the way they are because they have little experience of living in foreign countries for longer periods.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ireland also seems to breed a lot of nutjob nationalists who can't stand to see a negative word said about the country.

Pointing out that there's little sense of social responsibility and that 'idolisation of the cute hoor' are integral parts of Irish culture is not a "sweeping generalisation".

Fupping Grasshole

I think we're great.

Playboy

Ireland and the UK have a drink problem. Huge binge drinking culture in comparison to other developed western nations imo. Go East towards Poland/Russia and you start to see the same thing. Apart from the drink issue I dont think we are any more or less responsbile than any other nation

tdv123

Were probably not as shabby as we make ourselves out to be.

Down with that sort of thing........

Lisandro

Higher wrote: »

It seems in every aspect of Irish life we come across as immature and irresponsible...

I see. You've taken an isolated example of the Taoiseach saying something stupid, a generalised Western banking problem and anecdotal experience of Irish drinking culture (and somehow contended that these are distinctly Irish problems, as if this never happens in other European countries) and extended it to make a broad judgement on the character of the Irish people without anything really in between.

Tell me, do you always judge entire nationalities based on actions of minorities? Do you think that the Polish and Ukrainians are a racist people because of xenophobic thugs assaulting fans at Euro 2012? Do you think Greece is a violent nation because they had riots when their country went into financial meltdown? Or are vast generalisations only OK when they're about Ireland?

twinQuins wrote: »

Pointing out that there's little sense of social responsibility and that 'idolisation of the cute hoor' are integral parts of Irish culture is not a "sweeping generalisation".

You do realise that what you've just posted is in every respect a sweeping generalisation, don't you?

Dravokivich

Higher wrote: »

When you compare us to the French or the Germans we really do come across as irresponsible children.

So what do you want of us;

-Classy snobs
-Efficient workforce?

Shenshen

Higher wrote: »

It seems in every aspect of Irish life we come across as immature and irresponsible. Our Taoiseach cries to newspapers of being bullied, our economy is in tatters because of reckless bankers, we are one of the worst nations for getting drunk. When you compare us to the French or the Germans we really do come across as irresponsible children.
In how many countries can you see hoardes of adults in their 30s falling around the place on a Saturday night? I've never seen a German girl squatting down and taking a piss in the open at a festival in Germany.
When was the last time you heard about a certain nationality being banned from a hostel?
Should we be ashamed of ourselves? Is it time we stop blaming everyone else for our problems and take responsibility?
J.R Tolkein basing the hobbits on Irish people makes a lot of sense right now..

Don't beat yourselves up over your politicians... The former German chancellor Schroeder once refused to give interviews to the news corps of one German TV channel, because they had speculated about him dieing his hair.

The drinking on the other hand is getting a little much.

bluecode

We are an immature and irresponsible society. But whose fault is it?

The British of course, more specifically the English. 800 years of oppression yada, yada, yada.:rolleyes:

Therein lies the problem. Our inability to take resonsibility for our actions. It's always someone else's fault.

I think our real problem is the lack of a true Irish identity. It's seem to me there are 32 different identities. People's counties seem more important than their Irishness.

I am pie

We have a very poor relationship with alcohol and don't seem to be doing much to address the problem. Our political system is immature in that it is dominated by parish pump or outdated civil war politics, riddled with chancers and corrupt gombeens.

On the plus side though, our relationship with the UK has improved greatly, which can be seen as a sign of more mature relationships developing, we've adopted a mature approach to attempting to resolve our debt crisis (might not be the best approach, but we have implemented cuts and attempted to be responsible).

If we could sort out the politicians and calm down on the pints we'd be fine.

bluecode

bluecode wrote: »

We are an immature and irresponsible society. But whose fault is it?

The British of course, more specifically the English. 800 years of oppression yada, yada, yada.:rolleyes:

Therein lies the problem. Our inability to take resonsibility for our actions. It's always someone else's fault.

I think our real problem is the lack of a true Irish identity. It's seem to me there are 32 different identities. People's counties seem more important than their Irishness.

:pac:
That would put a smile on the heart of every true Englishman.

golden lane

RVP 11 wrote: »

:pac:
That would put a smile on the heart of every true Englishman.

where would you find one of them.......???

Sea Filly

I assume you're including yourself, OP?

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

where would you find one of them.......???

Ireland of course.:pac:

golden lane

RVP 11 wrote: »

Ireland of course.:pac:

yes, the the english in the uk......have more important things to think about.......true englishman....is well down the list...

CrabRevolution

bluecode wrote: »

We are an immature and irresponsible society. But whose fault is it?

The British of course, more specifically the English. 800 years of oppression yada, yada, yada.

Therein lies the problem. Our inability to take resonsibility for our actions. It's always someone else's fault.

I think our real problem is the lack of a true Irish identity. It's seem to me there are 32 different identities. People's counties seem more important than their Irishness.

Irish counties only really exist in terms of Reg plates, County councils and the GAA. This doesnt hinder national pride or Irishness in any way. We have a unitary government with control over everything and counties have close to no power or identity.

Meanwhile the country that many people here fall over themselves in their attempts to praise it in every conceivable way (Germany) is hugely divided.
It has 16 different states, each with it's own flag, government, education system etc. They have a great degree of autonomy and identity, with many Germans seeing themselves as Bayern, Bremen, Sachsen etc. people first, and Germans second.

Ouchette

daltonmd wrote: »

I lived in Germany for ten years and never worked with a German who drank during work hours, never seen beer in German canteens, even attending the Munich Beer festival (for ten years in a row) I never saw the Germans behaving like the Irish do.

It could be the case that it was this way many years ago, but as with every country, health and safety legislation banned this a long time ago.

That's odd. I lived there less than a year and saw it in both places where I worked. The big multinational in Heidelberg had it on tap in the canteen and the little tiny business in Bonn had the drinks trolley out during working hours every time someone joined/left/had a birthday and an almighty 2-day summer party piss-up.

Also, one of my first memories of Germany was being horrified when my 14 year old exchange partner and her friends squatted for a piss in the street after demonstrating the local drinking rituals.

crazy cabbage

Yes we (being western societies) are. Currently reading No Logo and getting more and more disalusioned with Society the more i get through it. Yes we are immature and irresponsible.

dodderangler

Go to Germany then if your gonna sit moanin about as a nation then go!!
Il sleep better being proud to be Irish

daltonmd

Ouchette wrote: »

That's odd. I lived there less than a year and saw it in both places where I worked. The big multinational in Heidelberg had it on tap in the canteen and the little tiny business in Bonn had the drinks trolley out during working hours every time someone joined/left/had a birthday and an almighty 2-day summer party piss-up.

Also, one of my first memories of Germany was being horrified when my 14 year old exchange partner and her friends squatted for a piss in the street after demonstrating the local drinking rituals.

That to me is different then "Germans have drinks in the morning and at lunch and have beers in their office canteen".

And do small companies in Ireland have office parties, Xmas parties in their offices - yes they do, that I have experienced here. Many small business's couldn't afford hotels or venues.

As I said, I lived in Munich for ten years, attended the Beer fest for ten years in a row and the only people behaving in a drunken, pissy manner were the Irish - although I will say that at that time there was very little, if any violence, but the bingedrinking was certainly present.

I married a German, had my kids in Germany, attended numerous weddings, christenings, parties and the like and never witnessed a Germn woman squatting on the street in full public view having a wee.

twinQuins

Lisandro wrote: »

[...] You do realise that what you've just posted is in every respect a sweeping generalisation, don't you?

Obviously I used a bad choice of words. To me, the implication of Ellis Dee's post was that "sweeping generalisations" are generalisations that don't hold true for most cases.

In such a case, while what I said was a generalisation (as I can't poll the opinion of every person in the country) it is one that generally holds true.

But I'm sure you already knew that and just wanted to get some thanks for being a pedantic smartass.

guitarzero

To an extent I have to agree with the OP. In the last 10 years I've noticed how childish Irish people tend to come across to our neighbours. Ways of interacting, opinions, spoilt behaviour, intellectual deficits, lack of appreciation of more finer things in the areas of writers, art, music.

But the Irish sense of humour is probably the envy of all.

Shryke

FatherLen wrote: »

is that true???

No it's not. They were based on English country bumpkins if anything. Nothing to do with the Irish.

vamos!

daltonmd wrote: »

That to me is different then "Germans have drinks in the morning and at lunch and have beers in their office canteen".

And do small companies in Ireland have office parties, Xmas parties in their offices - yes they do, that I have experienced here. Many small business's couldn't afford hotels or venues.

As I said, I lived in Munich for ten years, attended the Beer fest for ten years in a row and the only people behaving in a drunken, pissy manner were the Irish - although I will say that at that time there was very little, if any violence, but the bingedrinking was certainly present.

I married a German, had my kids in Germany, attended numerous weddings, christenings, parties and the like and never witnessed a Germn woman squatting on the street in full public view having a wee.

I have witnessed my fair share of drunk people in Germany. The younger generation are fairly similar ti our own teenagers to be honest. Some issue involving binge drinking (or coma drinking as the Germans call it) is reported in the papers most days. German teachers also speak of the same lack of respect and parents sticking up for little Johnny no matter what. Society is changing and becoming worse but this selfishness and irresponsibility seems to be more than just an Irish phenomenon.

Laneyh

It's possible we are a little irresponsible / immature but I think maybe our bigger failing is that we are very individualistic

By that I mean we're not really socially minded
if you spend any time in other European countries society seems a bit more self regulating

Maybe because of our size we just tend to do our own thing thinking 'I'm only one person nobody will mind if I sneak in here '

I've never seen an Irish person queue for anything unless they absolutely have to
If there's a chance to sneak in free somewhere we'll take it
Get on public transport without a ticket etc.

It's endearing up to a point but it can be bad too. Maybe if we thought a bit less as individuals and a bit more as a collective we could actually stage some effective sizeable protests against things like austerity measures.

It would be worse if we were all boring automotons though so maybe I should be careful what I wish for