Are We an Immature and Irresponsible Society?

thebaz

Higher wrote: »

It seems in every aspect of Irish life we come across as immature and irresponsible. Our Taoiseach cries to newspapers of being bullied, our economy is in tatters because of reckless bankers, we are one of the worst nations for getting drunk. When you compare us to the French or the Germans we really do come across as irresponsible children.

In how many countries can you see hoardes of adults in their 30s falling around the place on a Saturday night? I've never seen a German girl squatting down and taking a piss in the open at a festival in Germany.

When was the last time you heard about a certain nationality being banned from a hostel?

Should we be ashamed of ourselves? Is it time we stop blaming everyone else for our problems and take responsibility?

J.R Tolkein basing the hobbits on Irish people makes a lot of sense right now..

then again our football supporters are noted as being the best in the world - never heard of Irish supporters beating the crap out of locals

Lisandro

twinQuins wrote: »

Obviously I used a bad choice of words. To me, the implication of Ellis Dee's post was that "sweeping generalisations" are generalisations that don't hold true for most cases.

Not necessarily. Sweeping generalisations are general statements about a group/collective based on the behaviour of a small section you happen to have encountered. Regardless of whether that generalisation is correct or not, the reasoning is essentially anecdotal, hence fallacious.

twinQuins wrote: »

In such a case, while what I said was a generalisation (as I can't poll the opinion of every person in the country) it is one that generally holds true.

Please explain how it is generally true. Or is saying that a vague statement about social responsibility and cute-hoorism "is generally true" a convenient substitute for having to back up your prejudices?

twinQuins wrote: »

But I'm sure you already knew that and just wanted to get some thanks for being a pedantic smartass.

Why do some people on this place have to make these petty, personal snarks at posters who call them out on something? You don't even know me.

twinQuins

"Prejudices", that's a new one; I don't know you but you know me, apparently.

Okay, if that's how you want to play you can play by yourself.

Rawhead

I take it no one here has spent any time around U.S. spring break resorts. Go to Lake Tahoe, Myrtle beach, Cancun, San Padre island and see what binge drinking is.

All countries young people blow off steam. The Germans might not binge drink like us but they have a vile obsession with feces and the French are a nation of cowards.

Nodin

Rawhead wrote: »

I take it no one here has spent any time around U.S. spring break resorts. Go to Lake Tahoe, Myrtle beach, Cancun, San Padre island and see what binge drinking is.

All countries young people blow off steam. The Germans might not binge drink like us but they have a vile obsession with feces and the French are a nation of cowards.

Theres nothing worse than people trying to counter stupid generalisations with other stupid generalisations.

Lisandro

twinQuins wrote: »

"Prejudices", that's a new one; I don't know you but you know me, apparently.

Eh, no. I don't know you. But we do have a name for negative critical judgemental stereotypes made about large groups of individuals connected by an arbitrary link such as nationality. It's called a prejudice, hence my usage of the word.

twinQuins wrote: »

Okay, if that's how you want to play you can play by yourself.

Do you really have to act like that? No, seriously, do you really have such a problem with someone challenging your opinion that you refuse to engage with them beyond angled personal jabs?

Blondini

Rawhead wrote: »

The Germans might not binge drink like us but they have a vile obsession with feces

They have a which with what now? WTF?

Pottler

Blondini wrote: »

They have a which with what now? WTF?

They do, they love their poo. Not sure why, but it seems to pop up an awful lot in conversation, ie, how often, colour, texture. It's sort of like their version of our "the weather":D well, not as much, but they do like talking about poo a lot. they even came up with the expression "stundscheisser" for someone who takes too long doing it.

Blondini

Pottler wrote: »

They do, they love their poo. Not sure why, but it seems to pop up an awful lot in conversation, ie, how often, colour, texture. It's sort of like their version of our "the weather":D well, not as much, but they do like talking about poo a lot. they even came up with the expression "stundscheisser" for someone who takes too long doing it.

Thanks for that (I think)

Pottler

Blondini wrote: »

Thanks for that (I think)

yeah, it is a bit weird, but the weirdness goes waay deeper when you get to know them.

maykitrayen

Immature? Only when it comes to alcohol, I would say.

Irresponsible? Absolutely. As a nation, the Irish have an inbuilt function that makes them point the finger at every single other entity in existence to blame before considering that they're at fault. Then if the blame is directed at them, play the victim like nobody else and scream oppression.

As a nation we look like a bunch of arseholes from afar, in terms of stupid things like enacting blasphemy laws in 2009 (but hey, Iran loved it!) and upclose, when we've Irish people with the flag draped around their shoulders starting fights in Oz to the extent that they're now beginning to consider taking action against Irish as a nationality and its presence in the country.

Pottler

I know, it's a sh1thole.:rolleyes: But it's funny how whenever I go abroad, I can't wait to get back home so I can get away from the charmers I usually meet abroad. I'd say we have our fair share of faults, but where doesn't? When you get to know other nationalities, you start to realise that everywhere is everywhere. I prefer the everywhere I'm used to. At least here, I know in general what's what. Oh, and I don't think it's a sh1thole. I quite like it here actually, I even quite like the people. I can live with their flaws, I've a few myself tbh.

Azhrei

FatherLen wrote: »

is that true???

No, he based them on the English.

LH Pathe

Immature and irresponsible culture seemingly threatening to consume society as a whole after two decades plus; certainly but it's not indicative of society. Just so widespread it is accepted as the norm

Jimoslimos

bluecode wrote: »

I think our real problem is the lack of a true Irish identity. It's seem to me there are 32 different identities. People's counties seem more important than their Irishness.

I disagree, perhaps there may be a rural/urban divide but I've never noticed much difference in cultural identity between those from my area (NoCo Dublin) and surrounding counties, Louth, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow or indeed any other urban area in Ireland, Cork, Limerick or Galway.

The UK I reckon struggles more with identity. The obvious problems in Norn Iron, North/South divide in England, Scottish independence movement (will be unsuccessful IMO). I remember the resentment and anti-Scottish sentiment from the media when Gordon Brown was PM (and also towards other Scottish cabinet members) which had little to with his capability, or more accurately - incapability :pac:, to do his job.

Eve_Dublin

maykitrayen wrote: »

Immature? Only when it comes to alcohol, I would say.

Irresponsible? Absolutely. As a nation, the Irish have an inbuilt function that makes them point the finger at every single other entity in existence to blame before considering that they're at fault. Then if the blame is directed at them, play the victim like nobody else and scream oppression.

As a nation we look like a bunch of arseholes from afar, in terms of stupid things like enacting blasphemy laws in 2009 (but hey, Iran loved it!) and upclose, when we've Irish people with the flag draped around their shoulders starting fights in Oz to the extent that they're now beginning to consider taking action against Irish as a nationality and its presence in the country.

Nobody considers us from afar. The biggest mistake we make about ourselves is to think that other countries even notice were here half the time. We're tiny and insignificant. They wouldn't know enough or care enough about us to consider us, "arseholes".

bnt

Regarding Hobbits: if this Guardian article is correct, not only did Tolkien not base the Hobbits on the Irish, he did not like anything "Celtic" and would have been horrified at the apparently "Irish" Hobbits in the Peter Jackson trilogy:

Why, he would have asked in despair, has his quintessentially English shire been turned into an outstation of Riverdance? "I do know Celtic things and feel for them a certain distaste. They are in fact 'mad'," he wrote in an untypically snotty letter in 1937. So why do the hobbits do Irish jigs at Bilbo Baggins' birthday party? Why are two of the hobbits in the fellowship, Merry and Pippin, cast as prat-falling Irish clowns? Why does Howard Shore's music break into repeated Irish warbling? Because, as he would dolefully have guessed, James Cameron's Titanic proved that dollops of Irishry play well with the US box office.

criticalcritic

I agree with the OP

Kill all the Irish in Ireland I say, that will sort Ireland out

ArtSmart

have to laugh at the 'only wit drink' comments.

aint no 'only' about it.

AngeGal

Jesus, AH is incredible, every second day there's a new thread on the seemingly endless faults of the Irish. OP and all OPs on similar topics should travel and get some perspective. Either way, can the mods not just make one big super thread where all the moaners can congregate and castigate the Irish?!

AngeGal

maykitrayen wrote: »

Immature? Only when it comes to alcohol, I would say.

Irresponsible? Absolutely. As a nation, the Irish have an inbuilt function that makes them point the finger at every single other entity in existence to blame before considering that they're at fault. Then if the blame is directed at them, play the victim like nobody else and scream oppression.

As a nation we look like a bunch of arseholes from afar, in terms of stupid things like enacting blasphemy laws in 2009 (but hey, Iran loved it!) and upclose, when we've Irish people with the flag draped around their shoulders starting fights in Oz to the extent that they're now beginning to consider taking action against Irish as a nationality and its presence in the country.

Arrah will ya come off it, do ya really want me to point out equally ridiculous laws brought in by pretty much every other country in the world at one point or another? Politicians in creation of stupid law - hardly a peculiarly Irish phenomeneon is it???

Some lads in Oz have caused problems and some desperate media whore says he is banning his own nationality, yes that will ruin our international image. That only got coverage in Ireland anyway, whereas the great role played by our supporters at Euro 2012 has attracted attention far beyond our own boundaries (if you don't believe me, do a google search and find articles written in almost every language about them).

God...

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Nobody considers us from afar. The biggest mistake we make about ourselves is to think that other countries even notice were here half the time. We're tiny and insignificant. They wouldn't know enough or care enough about us to consider us, "arseholes".

So true!!!

John Doe1

Yeah lets all just have a day say in august where every irish citizen lines up and take turns jumping off the cliffs of moher

grenache

If you were to judge Ireland and the Irish, from a purely subjective point of view, taking into account our character traits, tradition and history, one would have to somewhat agree with the OP. While we are amongst the friendliest of peoples in the world today, the Irish are generally not very good at getting things done. Whether it be enacting laws, drinking in a sensible manner, planning ahead, putting in contingency plans, or even managing our finances. But we are not alone in this, all countries on the periphery of Europe such as Greece and Spain also have some of these problems. I guess it comes down to lack of discipline more than anything else.

BillyMitchel

Meh.. We are a great little nation and I like it here (especially away from the cities) but I do think the scumbag element of society is getting out of control and it is getting worse and I don't think that could be denied.

chrissb7

Ireland is laughable.This bullcrap attitude of if you can get away with it do it or the airy fairy manner in which things are dealt with.I refer to two things such as the dole scroungers and in general how Irish people accept and allow anything to happen to them without so much as a finger lifted.I won't rattle off the economy or our dreadful selection of politicians.I think Ireland is still a backward society.From a young persons point of view (me) all i see is a nation that doesn't want change.It wants someone to do it for them. Germany and other well developed european nations set the bar.Every year they are looking to improve society and fortify their respective economies.I see tiny changes for a small country.So laughable.

As for the drinking thing.I am in no position to talk.Every person makes their own lifestyle choices.All I can say is that I do indulge in drinking once or twice a week.I would welcome higher off license prices and lower pub prices.Beating out underage drinking and returning a sacred culture of community, a laugh and a chat that is the pub.

NIMAN

Lot of people need to get out and visit the world a bit more if they think Ireland is the only place to do such things.

Most of the 'carry on' I have seen in my life in Ireland I have also seen in the likes of Germany, Spain, Italy, Scotland, England, Holland.

We ain't so bad as many would have you believe.

vamos!

AngeGal wrote: »

Arrah will ya come off it, do ya really want me to point out equally ridiculous laws brought in by pretty much every other country in the world at one point or another? Politicians in creation of stupid law - hardly a peculiarly Irish phenomeneon is it???

The Irish government haven't passed a law allowing them to sell information about their citizens to private companies. The organised Germans have....

t-ha

Living in Germany... the road on the way to work was finally finished about a month ago - exact same road back all opened up again today... :S