"Hero" soldiers.

ejmaztec

kfallon wrote: »

I'm dying for a shite right now, I must be a hero! :pac:

Only if your arse drops off and gets flushed away.

Cú Giobach

feeney92 wrote: »

Soldiers dont sign up to kill, they sign up to defend teir countrys and to kill IF NECCESSARY, I know if it was between me and my mates or some scumbag who uses children as suicide bombers who Id choose

All they have to be told is that the are defending their country irrespective of whether or not it's true.
German soldiers crossed the border into The USSR believing the were defending Germany in 1941, same with Americans entering Iraq recently, they believed (quite naively) they were defending The USA.
Someone doing something wrong believing they are defending their country does not make it right, nor does it make them a hero if they get hurt.

DipStick McSwindler

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kneemos

Shenshen wrote: »

Not so much "if necessary", more like "if told to".

As I said, their choice, just make sure the general population is protected from them.

Why do you feel the general population needs protecting from them.?

speedboatchase

Bloody hell, After Hours is even more left-wing than I'd imagined - I'm sure most of the anti-soldier sentiment comes from people hypocritically begging for the US to intervene in Syria. I don't agree with most wars post-WW2 but I'd respect the hell out of someone who for example, jumped on a grenade to save a group of fellow soldiers. On the subject of being a "hero", it really does depend on the circumstances - I never thought Ken Bigley was a hero for example, though the tabloid press pushed that line often.

DipStick McSwindler

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smash

Feeney, you are so brainwashed you know that?

DipStick McSwindler

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smash

feeney92 wrote: »

smash wrote: »

Feeney, you are so brainwashed you know that?

What makes you come to this conclusion? And lets please avoid moronic slagging and have a civilised debate

The fact that you're jumping to soldiers defence at every opportunity, also your family background as you mentioned. I'm guessing you've always been told how great the military are since a young age. In general, people who are brainwashed don't realise it!

Chuck Stone

In fairness to Feeney he makes a point that makes sense i.e. most soldiers fight for each other rather than hifalutin accolades and ideologies.

Shryke

How do you start a thread to give out about people who lost their limbs. Forget the politics for a minute and take the time to cop on.

DipStick McSwindler

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kneemos

Shryke wrote: »

How do you start a thread to give out about people who lost their limbs. Forget the politics for a minute and take the time to cop on.

Not giving out I said they should be aknowledged.Should they be glorified.?

Micky Dolenz

feeney92 wrote: »

Well the reason I am jumping to their defence is because im the only one here who will do it, the rest are simply anti-soldier opinions and frankly in my opinion because the are a little ill-informed(in some cases they are right) and dont understand it to the extent that I do. I gaurantee if this thread was moved o the military section (where it should be) there would be a much better debate and not just a load of people ganging up on one. The simple fact is I respect everybodys opinion even though I dont neccessarilly agree with it, I beleive that people misunderstand soldiers and their reasoining for joining and staying in, and they are mistakenly seen as bad guys

I know a few soldiers and they are all nice people. i dont get your point. I'm certainly not anti soldier or army. I suspect most people see it as another PS job.

ejmaztec

smash wrote: »

The fact that you're jumping to soldiers defence at every opportunity, also your family background as you mentioned. I'm guessing you've always been told how great the military are since a young age. In general, people who are brainwashed don't realise it!

I think the first part of military training is conditioning, where the service-men and women end up treating the army as if it's more important than the families they left outside. After that it must get easier to convince them to put their lives on the line for their country and colleagues.

Shryke

kneemos wrote: »

Shryke wrote: »

How do you start a thread to give out about people who lost their limbs. Forget the politics for a minute and take the time to cop on.

Not giving out I said they should be aknowledged.Should they be glorified.?

It depends. Were they William dafoe in platoon or more doctor Cox in platoon?
Our are we talking Bill Murray in Stripes? Obviously minus limbs.

ejmaztec

I don't know whether crippled soldiers are treated the same the world over, but the "heroes" in the UK seem to be on the scrap-heap, living on hand-outs as charity cases. "Thank you, now fuck off!" seems to be the attitude of the people who sent them out to get maimed.

Shenshen

kneemos wrote: »

Why do you feel the general population needs protecting from them.?

Because they are people who decided they wouldn't have a problem killing someone pointed out to them by someone else, and are trained up accordingly.

In my experience, they behave like that on their time off, too.

DipStick McSwindler

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smash

Shenshen wrote: »

In my experience, they behave like that on their time off, too.

I get where you're coming from on this. They also feel that everyone should respect them disregarding their opinions.

DipStick McSwindler

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Cú Giobach

feeney92 wrote: »

Well the reason I am jumping to their defence is because im the only one here who will do it, the rest are simply anti-soldier opinions and frankly in my opinion because the are a little ill-informed(in some cases they are right) and dont understand it to the extent that I do. I gaurantee if this thread was moved o the military section (where it should be) there would be a much better debate and not just a load of people ganging up on one. The simple fact is I respect everybodys opinion even though I dont neccessarilly agree with it, I beleive that people misunderstand soldiers and their reasoining for joining and staying in, and they are mistakenly seen as bad guys

The issue isn't a simple black and white, yes or no situation. I said earlier getting hurt doesn't automatically make someone a hero, but if they are a hero to their country then they are a hero, though they may not have been heroic by the standards of others, and if someone is a hero to even one person, then they are a hero. I'm thinking being a hero doesn't automatically make you heroic.

By the way I don't believe soldiers are bad, soldiers are weapons and it is how weapons are used that determines right and wrongness.

smash

feeney92 wrote: »

Only if you have been watching too many USMC videos. Not all armys train like this

I'd say most armies are trained like this. Thus the "brotherhood" element.

smash

Cú Giobach wrote: »

By the way I don't believe soldiers are bad, soldiers are weapons and it is how weapons are used that determines right and wrongness.

By their very nature, weapons are there to cause harm and damage. This isn't what people are built for, it's what others make them! Brainwashing...

DipStick McSwindler

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smash

feeney92 wrote: »

No the brotherhood element comes from human emotion, going through the rough times with somebody and then seing them hurt in a conflict which was wrong to start in the first place for no good reason has a terrible affect on the mind. Hence the reason they protect each other with their lives. The comeradeship comes from the sense of respect which is earne through getting through the **** together and making it out the other side

It takes a bigger man to say "I will not fight your war" than it does to say "yes sir"

DipStick McSwindler

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Cú Giobach

smash wrote: »

By their very nature, weapons are there to cause harm and damage. This isn't what people are built for, it's what others make them! Brainwashing...

A rock can be a lethal weapon, are rocks bad?

DipStick McSwindler

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smash

feeney92 wrote: »

I can say without a shadow of a doubt if it was between you and your family and me and my family. You would pick your own

And I can say without a show of doubt I would choose my family over joining the army! Most soldiers don't.

Dyr

What if you're running away from the enemy when you step on a landmine?

DipStick McSwindler

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smash

feeney92 wrote: »

Not If your friends are going to be put in your place of risk because of your actions

You see, they could be bigger men too!

golden lane

smash wrote: »

It takes a bigger man to say "I will not fight your war" than it does to say "yes sir"

try it then.........see how easy fighting a war is....

smash

feeney92 wrote: »

Your Definatly a politician....

Because I would choose my family over another man's war? Please...

smash

golden lane wrote: »

smash wrote: »

It takes a bigger man to say "I will not fight your war" than it does to say "yes sir"

try it then.........see how easy fighting a war is....

I've got more sense, I've got more ambition and I've got more self worth thanks.

Paparazzo

Never mind firemen, fishermen in ireland is far, far more dangerous. They risk their lives to make sure your cod and chips are available on the way home from the pub. They're true heros

Shenshen

feeney92 wrote: »

Thats an opinion you developed based on a personal experience you encountered, but its not all soldiers way of behaving. Im sorry you had bad run ins with them I really am, because it lowers peoples opinion of them, but on the otherhand you cannot tar them all with the one brush, But I do understand why you do because you have had personal experience

Personal experience certainly hasn't helped, and neither has their reported behaviour in the wider world.

However, my distrust of anyone who would sign up for a job that is at its heart about killing whoever the designated "enemy" should happen to be at any one time has nothing to do with experience and everything with psychology and ethics.

DipStick McSwindler

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DipStick McSwindler

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golden lane

smash wrote: »

Because I would choose my family over another man's war? Please...

you chose the hard way........good man....

Shenshen

Paparazzo wrote: »

Never mind firemen, fishermen in ireland is far, far more dangerous. They risk their lives to make sure your cod and chips are available on the way home from the pub. They're true heros

Only to those of us who eat fish.

For us vegetarians, there are other heroes

Shenshen

feeney92 wrote: »

Ok so every rebel in Syria is a moron for fighting an oppressive regime? Its soldiers who gave you a right to develop these opinions of yours, get an education and have ambition. Are the men of 1916 murderers for developing a Home we call the Republic?

After having seen so many revolutions in Eastern Europe that libertated people without a drop of blood being shed, can you seriously be dishonest enough to ask this question?

smash

feeney92 wrote: »

Many people cherish the oppurtunity to practice what theyve trained in, which is why the concept of "being a unit and sticking together" comes in

I'd rather have free will to make my own decisions.

And anyone who decides to train in the art of war/killing has issues from the get go. If you want to join a unit, go to the scouts or something where your life isn't on the line and you don't have to train to kill people for a living.

Cú Giobach

Shenshen wrote: »

Only to those of us who eat fish.

For us vegetarians, there are other heroes

Not the (arguably) most famous vegetarian in modern military history I hope.

smash

golden lane wrote: »

smash wrote: »

Because I would choose my family over another man's war? Please...

you chose the hard way........good man....

You must think a lot of your family...

discus

Jesus Christ, how we've deviated from the initial post - you know, the one about the victims, not the reasons why people join the army.

Regardless of how you lose a limb, or gain a disability, if you can put on a brave face and try to just get on with life, you're a freakin' hero to me. A soldier could lose his foot to diabetes, or to an IED, just as a civilian could lose a hand in work or fall down a stairs in a nightclub and break their neck. But getting on with life after something as awful as that is fairly epic, I don't know how I would deal with it if I lost my leg. Could happen too, what with me being a soldier and whatnot. Does admiration only come if someone loses a leg in a politically neutral way?

DipStick McSwindler

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Praetorian Saighdiuir

I'm a serving irish soldier and I'm not stupid, as some here have generalised. I joined because It was a profession that appealed to me. Growing up, I was aware of Michael Collins and the other "soldiers of destiny" who helped free us from a foreign nations control. I am grateful for all they have done, whether people see what they did as liberation or terrorism. They still gave us the opportunity for our own rule and freedom.

Myself and my colleagues are well trained, and not stupid people who signed on the dotted line just for the chance to kill people. Ireland has a relatively small Defence Force and our number of personnell / equipment and budget reflects this.

We are not a typical "war going" nation. We are however heavily involved in peace keeping / peace enforcement missions. At the request of the United Nations / NATO and Europe, we have been deployed to some fairly hostile and war torn countries around the World. We hold our own when serving along side other "battle hardened" foreign troops. We have 50 years experience of peace keeping, so we are more experienced in this role than many many other militaries.

Other militaries have applauded us for our professionalism and ability to defuse tense situations with words instead of resorting to firing shots. These situations, if not dealt with correctly, would end in the deaths of soldiers and innocent civilians. We are trained and prepared as a last resort to show force.

While serving overseas, Irish soldiers have been killed and wounded in combat. They have also been kidnapped, tortured and killed. Unfortunately, we are still looking for the body of one of our commerades who was kidnapped and presumed killed in Lebanon many moons ago.

Many Irish soldier have been awared with medals for bravery, anything ranging from tending to "enemy" wounded during a fire fight to being wounded under the rain of mortar and machine gun fire and crawling for 500 meters to drag out your buddy, getting him to friendly lines, then going back again for someone else.

Im sure I will never need to defend Ireland but we are here to do so. We would be heavily outnumbered, out equipt and totally overwhelmed be that as it is, we would still stand between the "enemy" and you.

smash

feeney92 wrote: »

You have those decisions because of soldiers!! What about WW1 and 2 those lads in the allies trained purely in the art of killing do you think they had issues?

Why do you insist on confusing freedom fighters of the past with the ilk of today's soldiers who basically just invade upon command?