Jobsworths

Scioch

Bad Panda wrote: »

Well I guess we both just expect different of ourselves and other people.

As someone who's dealing with people, this a poor attitude to have and one that is prevalent in Ireland.

Its prevalent for a reason and its not a poor attitude at all. I deal with people just fine and help many people. But I am not obliged to go out of my way for every stranger who wants me to. Certainly not those arrogant enough to expect it and get upset when I dont jump to it.

Sure you 'don't have to', but why not just help somebody out of basic human kindness?

Question is what grounds have you to be pissed off with me because I wont do you a favor ? I dont know you, I deal with lots of people some of whom are complete assholes. This type of job wears ya down and when you get to the stage where people are giving you shít because your doing your job you start to care less and less about the wants and expectations of strangers who dont give two fcuks about you but seem to think you should be their best fcukin friend.

I worked in a shop years ago and always tried to help someone if they came in asking for it or an exchange or whatever.

I always try to help whatever way I can too but the more difficult they make it for me the less I can help them.

No offence, but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about customers.

Not about customers, about customers who think I owe them something thats not in my job description. Go into a restaurant and ask the chef to cook you a personal meal not on the menu. Would it be great if he did ? Course. Do you expect him to or would you think he's an asshole if he doesnt ? Would the chef be more likely to help you if you sent word back you were not accepting no as an answer ? He tell you to fcuk off in no uncertain terms.

I owe the shop my hours and my willingness to do what they tell me. I dont owe customers nothing the shop doesnt promise them. So anyone who thinks I do or that they can push or pressure me into doing favors wont get anything from me I'm not obliged to give. Thats not a chip or a bad attitude its just the way things are. I dont go to you asking for favors, dont come looking them from me while making my job harder to do and giving me grief.

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Yes, I do. Honestly.

Odd how that didnt work out for ya. :rolleyes:

Ficheall

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Honestly, I wouldn't care whether he disrupts his stock, puts it through as an exchange, puts it down to "damaged stock"...whatever. It doesn't interest me. Does that make me a d!ckhead?

Easily as much of a d!ckhead as you seem to feel the employee is.

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Honestly, I wouldn't care whether he disrupts his stock, puts it through as an exchange, puts it down to "damaged stock"...whatever. It doesn't interest me. Does that make me a d!ckhead? No, it doesn't. It makes me a customer who might require a little bit more attention.

Yeah you dont give two fcuks about that guy and his job and the shop and its stock.

Yet your outraged they wouldnt do you a favor. This is the sense of entitlement and expectation that pisses me off. If I owned the shop I wouldnt have given you any more "attention" I'd have told you to fcuk off take your business elsewhere and waste someone else's time. Because thats all you were doing, wasting peoples time without your bullshít.

wilkie2006

LordSmeg wrote: »

thats not in my job description.

Now, that's the bottom line, isn't it? Those few words are why everything takes so long to happen in Ireland: from getting refunds to building roads.

"Here, can you put this through for me, please?"
"Jaysus, no!! That's not my job, that's Tony's job."
"And where's Tony?"
"Off in Marbella, he is. Won't be back for a fortnight."
"Right, well I kind of need this now. All you have to do is push that button."
"I'm sorry, I can't help you. I'd love to help you, you know, but if I push that button I'll have the union down here before ya could $hite."

You know what? People can make things happen if they actually want to. This whole bull$hit argument of "I can't put the boxes back on the system without a receipt" is bo11ocks. Systems are written in such a way that they can be overridden. It boils down to, "Actually, I'm only here from 9-5 and I couldn't be fcuked doing anything extra. I don't care who you are or what your problem is. I refuse to exercise intelligence or push myself any farther than I'm obliged to."

I think it's quite a sad philosophy to champion, to be honest.

wilkie2006

LordSmeg wrote: »

Yeah you dont give two fcuks about that guy and his job and the shop and its stock.

Yet your outraged they wouldnt do you a favor. This is the sense of entitlement and expectation that pisses me off. If I owned the shop I wouldnt have given you any more "attention" I'd have told you to fcuk off take your business elsewhere and waste someone else's time. Because thats all you were doing, wasting peoples time without your bullshít.

I've no doubt that you'd have told me to fcuk off and I think that's probably because you're inflexible, unimaginative and incapable of thinking beyond the boundaries that someone has prescribed for you. The perfect automaton worker drone.

wilkie2006

Originally Posted by wilkie2006 View Post
Honestly, I wouldn't care whether he disrupts his stock, puts it through as an exchange, puts it down to "damaged stock"...whatever. It doesn't interest me. Does that make me a d!ckhead? No, it doesn't. It makes me a customer who might require a little bit more attention.

Ficheall wrote: »

Easily as much of a d!ckhead as you seem to feel the employee is.

Or maybe just someone who thinks there's more to life than making things as difficult as possible for others? Cop on.

I don't care how Pat the Baker makes my bread either, or how the bus that drives me around was cleaned that day, or even how the people at HMV arrange their displays. Does that make me a d!ckhead? I'd say that just doesn't make me a bore.

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Now, that's the bottom line, isn't it? Those few words are why everything takes so long to happen in Ireland: from getting refunds to building roads.

"Here, can you put this through for me, please?"
"Jaysus, no!! That's not my job, that's Tony's job."
"And where's Tony?"
"Off in Marbella, he is. Won't be back for a fortnight."
"Right, well I kind of need this now. All you have to do is push that button."
"I'm sorry, I can't help you. I'd love to help you, you know, but if I push that button I'll have the union down here before ya could $hite."

You know what? People can make things happen if they actually want to. This whole bull$hit argument of "I can't put the boxes back on the system without a receipt" is bo11ocks. Systems are written in such a way that they can be overridden. It boils down to, "Actually, I'm only here from 9-5 and I couldn't be fcuked doing anything extra. I don't care who you are or what your problem is. I refuse to exercise intelligence or push myself any farther than I'm obliged to."

I think it's quite a sad philosophy to champion, to be honest.

Selective quoting fail.

The quote and problem is.

customers who think I owe them something thats not in my job description

So everything you have said there is irrelevant. I dont owe anyone other than my employer. So the customer with the sense of entitlement is the issue not the guy in the shop who doesnt feel like doing favors.

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

I've no doubt that you'd have told me to fcuk off and I think that's probably because you're inflexible, unimaginative and incapable of thinking beyond the boundaries that someone has prescribed for you. The perfect automaton worker drone.

No it would be because dealing with you wouldnt be worth your custom. IF you create this much trouble over two boxes then why on earth would I want you back in future ?

I'd rather the workers actually worked instead of listening to the bullshít whinging from someone who thinks what he wants is more important than workers time, company policy and stock control. Customers like you are actually detrimental to business despite what you might like think about yourself.

Ficheall

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Or someone who thinks there's more to life than making things as difficult as possible for others. Cop on.

Like someone who might say: "I wouldn't care whether he disrupts his stock, puts it through as an exchange, puts it down to "damaged stock"...whatever. It doesn't interest me. ", oui?
Or someone who mightn't bother their arse buying the product they actually needed, or keeping the receipt for an item they wished to exchange?

Scioch

^^^ You shot yourself in the foot there old wilkie lol. Hypocrisy at its finest.

wilkie2006

LordSmeg wrote: »

Selective quoting fail.

The quote and problem is.



So everything you have said there is irrelevant. I dont owe anyone other than my employer. So the customer with the sense of entitlement is the issue not the guy in the shop who doesnt feel like doing favors.

Fine, you can have you whole quote (incidentally, I think that you're probably overvaluing its 'wisdom'):

customers who think I owe them something thats not in my job description

The full sentence doesn't make my argument redundant. My argument was based on the attitude that permeates all of your posts.

token101

Bad Panda wrote: »

Pretty stupid post.

Seriously, make an exchange of a product, help a consumer, consumer feels happy with the company, mentions it to others, will use company again = losing your job...even if it's against policy (which company's make allowances for - and it was a fcuking box!)

Cop on.

I hope you've to return something and are told to f*ck off.

I have been told by Ryanair to f*ck off on more than one occasion. And they seem to be doing just fine without my custom. No one cares about one customer's problem and massaging their ego so they'll believe they are the most important person in the world, it's only if it becomes a widespread issue anyone gives a f*ck. You telling your buddies that you feel sad about not getting a new box isn't going to ruin someone's business! Lots of people like to believe they've got scammed, allows for the opportunity to go the internet and have a moan. He's got great value of his boxes and this long thread! It's not me who needs to cop on!

wilkie2006

LordSmeg wrote: »

No it would be because dealing with you wouldnt be worth your custom. IF you create this much trouble over two boxes then why on earth would I want you back in future ?

I'd rather the workers actually worked instead of listening to the bullshít whinging from someone who thinks what he wants is more important than workers time, company policy and stock control. Customers like you are actually detrimental to business despite what you might like think about yourself.

What the fcuk kind of trouble have I created? Are you the guy who works in the shop? No. I'm not taking up any of his time. I'm talking to you.

Customers like me are detrimental to business? Is that right? I really question whether you have enough of a grasp of how business works to be able to make such assertions.

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Fine, you can have you whole quote (incidentally, I think that you're probably overvaluing its 'wisdom'):
The full sentence doesn't make my argument redundant. My argument was based on the attitude that permeates all of your posts.

Your argument was based on the fact I dont want to do anything outside my job description. Which is untrue, I'd do plenty and for lots of people pretty regularly.

The problem is if I choose not to you have no grounds to whinge about it. Because I owe you nothing. You are whinging because a stranger wont do you a favor. You chanced your arm on something you knew the guy wasnt obliged to do. Then get upset when he doesnt do it. Problem lies with you thinking he owes you something not with his reluctance to help you.

wilkie2006

LordSmeg wrote: »

^^^ You shot yourself in the foot there old wilkie lol. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Explain that. I'd try to work it out myself but I'm not convinced there's any real thought behind it.

wilkie2006

LordSmeg wrote: »

Your argument was based on the fact I dont want to do anything outside my job description. Which is untrue, I'd do plenty and for lots of people pretty regularly.

.

I don't doubt that you think you do a lot to help people.. after all the forms have been filled out, of course.

wilkie2006

Right, got some stuff to do. Back later.

_feedback_

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Honestly, I wouldn't care whether he disrupts his stock, puts it through as an exchange, puts it down to "damaged stock"...whatever. It doesn't interest me. Does that make me a d!ckhead? No, it doesn't. It makes me a customer who might require a little bit more attention.

Wow. You may as well have said - he can stick it up his arse as far as I'm concerned, I couldn't give a shíte, as long as i get my way. Because i'm the customer you know!

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

What the fcuk kind of trouble have I created? Are you the guy who works in the shop? No. I'm not taking up any of his time. I'm talking to you.

Customers like me are detrimental to business? Is that right? I really question whether you have enough of a grasp of how business works to be able to make such assertions.

We were talking as if I was working in the shop. I said (I'll quote this again for you and might even explain it)

IF you create this much trouble over two boxes then why on earth would I want you back in future ?

See the word IF ? Yeah that means IF believe it or not.

You were on about needing more attention. I said I wouldnt have given you any. You then said I wouldnt do so because I was incapable of thinking for myself. I said I would do so rather than waste time dealing with you, IF you created this much trouble you wouldnt exactly be good for business.

You seem to be the one who lacks the basic knowledge of business, thinking stock can be changed at will by anyone, stuff can be put on shelves and sold regardless of whether its in the system, the whole thing can be left disorganized to please someone who lost his receipt.

pickarooney

Good job on smoking out the jobsworths with this thread, OP.

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Explain that. I'd try to work it out myself but I'm not convinced there's any real thought behind it.

I'll leave it to you to work out, explaining stuff to you hasnt worked so far. Maybe you'll learn better if you have to put in the effort. Its not difficult though. Look at Ficheall's post and then google the word hypocrisy.

wilkie2006

Originally Posted by wilkie2006
Honestly, I wouldn't care whether he disrupts his stock, puts it through as an exchange, puts it down to "damaged stock"...whatever. It doesn't interest me. Does that make me a d!ckhead? No, it doesn't. It makes me a customer who might require a little bit more attention.

elviscostello wrote: »

Wow. You may as well have said - he can stick it up his arse as far as I'm concerned, I couldn't give a shíte, as long as i get my way. Because i'm the customer you know!

Nope. What I was saying - which would be apparent to anyone reading the post objectively and without an agenda - is that I don't care about the administrative trivialities associated with such a minor transaction. Whether he puts it through as a manual exchange or just leaves it back on the shelf is up to him - it wouldn't make me lose sleep over.

You're interpreting that as me saying "I don't give a fcuk about him as a human being". Very specious arguing.

wilkie2006

LordSmeg wrote: »

We were talking as if I was working in the shop. I said (I'll quote this again for you and might even explain it)

No, we weren't. I can assure you that if I encountered you in a shop I wouldn't be having a conversation with you.

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

No, we weren't. I can assure you that if I encountered you in a shop I wouldn't be having a conversation with you.

Yes we were. You even went to the trouble of posting about it and having a pop at me.

wilkie2006 wrote: »

I've no doubt that you'd have told me to fcuk off and I think that's probably because you're inflexible, unimaginative and incapable of thinking beyond the boundaries that someone has prescribed for you. The perfect automaton worker drone.

So come on tell me why you wouldnt be talking to me. Because I'm an inflexible, unimaginative drone ? Incapable of doing favors for people who cant conduct themselves like adults and must beg and plead people to rectify their mistakes for them ? Then whinge and moan and call them names behind their back if they dont ?

Or (and this is a stretch) you have realized I wouldnt owe you anything and decide that you would take responsibility for your own actions and not bother me and expect me to sort it all out because you and nobody else fcuked up ?

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Nope. What I was saying - which would be apparent to anyone reading the post objectively and without an agenda - is that I don't care about the administrative trivialities associated with such a minor transaction. Whether he puts it through as a manual exchange or just leaves it back on the shelf is up to him - it wouldn't make me lose sleep over.

You're interpreting that as me saying "I don't give a fcuk about him as a human being". Very specious arguing.

But he has to give a fcuk about seeing as he's the one doing it and the one who has to explain why he did it when he shouldnt have.

So you are saying you dont give a fcuk about him. You dont give a fcuk about what he has to do or how it affects him as long as you get sorted. Because apparently he owes you that for some unknown reason.

_feedback_

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Nope. What I was saying - which would be apparent to anyone reading the post objectively and without an agenda - is that I don't care about the administrative trivialities associated with such a minor transaction. Whether he puts it through as a manual exchange or just leaves it back on the shelf is up to him - it wouldn't make me lose sleep over.

You're interpreting that as me saying "I don't give a fcuk about him as a human being". Very specious arguing.

You are. That is exactly what you are saying. You say you don't care what hoops he has to jump through, as long as you get what you want.

Even though it was your own fault in the first place.

If it was a TV you wanted to exchange for another one €20 cheaper without a receipt. Would you expect him to just do it? Just shuffle around the stock a bit for you like a good lad?

wilkie2006

elviscostello wrote: »

You are. That is exactly what you are saying. You say you don't care what hoops he has to jump through, as long as you get what you want.

Even though it was your own fault in the first place.

If it was a TV you wanted to exchange for another one €20 cheaper without a receipt. Would you expect him to just do it? Just shuffle around the stock a bit for you like a good lad?

Not at all. I think that a television is a more substantial, expensive and significant product than a cardboard box is. Given the possibility that the customer in your example could have damaged the TV set they were looking to exchange, removed parts from it or bought it in another shop means that more stringent checks are appropriate.

It seems that the problem here is that you cannot distinguish between trivial things and not-so-trivial things. Stop trying to make one rule fit all and instead exercise some common sense.

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Not at all. I think that a television is a more substantial, expensive and significant product than a cardboard box is. Given the possibility that the customer in your example could have damaged the TV set they were looking to exchange, removed parts from it or bought it in another shop means that more stringent checks are appropriate.

It seems that the problem here is that you cannot distinguish between trivial things and not-so-trivial things. Stop trying to make one rule fit all and instead exercise some common sense.

Speaking of common sense have you realized yet that you couldnt give a shít about the shop or guy working there as long as they fix the problem you made ?

While whinging about them because you think they are making things difficult for you.

Do you see the hypocrisy and absurdity in what your upset about given how little you care about anyone but yourself ?

Your pissed off because other people wont do something they dont have to do to help you out while you couldnt give two fcuks how they do it or how it affects them.

_feedback_

wilkie2006 wrote: »

It seems that the problem here is that you cannot distinguish between trivial things and not-so-trivial things. Stop trying to make one rule fit all and instead exercise some common sense.

It seems the problem is you didn't have a receipt. You caused the problem, and you want people to go out of their way to help you. They can't or else don't feel like it. Fairly straight forward either way.

Pantsface

13 pages my god! hehe

weemcd

wilkie2006 wrote: »

It seems that the problem here is that you cannot distinguish between trivial things and not-so-trivial things. Stop trying to make one rule fit all and instead exercise some common sense.

Take a good long look at this thread you started, it is the very definition of trivial. I'm just glad there are enough people on here to tell you to cop the fúck on.

Pottler

weemcd wrote: »

Take a good long look at this thread you started, it is the very definition of trivial. I'm just glad there are enough people on here to tell you to cop the fúck on.

he he, as opposed to all the IMPORTANT threads on AH?! I think the box b0lloxology rates as well worth reading, boxes are important. No box can be a dealbreaker in some situations. Reciept or no reciept.

wilkie2006

weemcd wrote: »

Take a good long look at this thread you started, it is the very definition of trivial. I'm just glad there are enough people on here to tell you to cop the fúck on.

Yes, I agree. I find the entire retail exchange sphere incredibly trivial. Within this world, however, one will find varying degrees of sub-triviality. I put box exchanges right at the very bottom of that hierarchy, with televisions a little bit higher.

You're glad that there are enough people on the thread to tell me to cop the fcuk on? Hmm, take a look at the poll - it's about 50-50. The only people who could be fcuked arguing in favour of the Box Man are the anally retentive weirdos who love filling out forms, making sure that everything is filed correctly and following procedure with unquestioning zeal. Hmm, guess that includes you, matey.

wilkie2006

elviscostello wrote: »

It seems the problem is you didn't have a receipt. You caused the problem, and you want people to go out of their way to help you. They can't or else don't feel like it. Fairly straight forward either way.

Pretty much. But think about it for a second: it's not like I'm trying to swap a car or anything of any real value.

Yes, I created my own problem because I lost my receipt, threw it away, whatever. My argument is that given the nature of what I was asking the guy to do, it wasn't really a big thing for him to oblige me.

Legally, it's very straightforward - I didn't have a receipt so no exchange. In the real world, this rule is always a bit flexible. Occasionally, people do other people good turns. No, they don't have to but they do because, hey, life's too short.

FatherLen

why in gods name is this thread so popular?

Scioch

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Yes, I agree. I find the entire retail exchange sphere incredibly trivial. Within this world, however, one will find varying degrees of sub-triviality. I put box exchanges right at the very bottom of that hierarchy, with televisions a little bit higher.

You're glad that there are enough people on the thread to tell me to cop the fcuk on? Hmm, take a look at the poll - it's about 50-50. The only people who could be fcuked arguing in favour of the Box Man are the anally retentive weirdos who love filling out forms, making sure that everything is filed correctly and following procedure with unquestioning zeal. Hmm, guess that includes you, matey.

Or people with enough cop on to know you cant expect everyone else to wipe your arse for you and cry like a spoiled child when they dont. Depending on how you look at it I suppose and your ability to actually give a shít about someone other than yourself.

hooradiation

FatherLen wrote: »

why in gods name is this thread so popular?

The OP has an amazing blend of self righteousness and pig headedness that allows them to just keep on arguing that it's simply an affront to life, decency and the natural order that this minor event didn't work out in their favour.

Frankly, as long as people are willing to suggest that it wasn't a travesty of the highest order this thread will continue.
So, I expect it to still be here after the end of all things.

Cringer

Was the receipt required for proof of purchase or did he need the receipt to scan a barcode from it or some such?

If he simply wanted proof of purchase, and had you paid with a Laser Card you would have the proof there on the statement.

If the original receipt was needed that had some special codes on it then that I can understand, but requirements for a proof of purchase only suggests he decided to act within the "no receipt no return" rather than his discretion.

So, what exactly was the receipt needed for?

TonyStark

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Just back from a self storage unit, where I tried to exchange two unused large boxes for two medium boxes. Fairly straightforward, right? No.

"Hey, I bought these boxes a couple of days ago but they're too big. I haven't used them - they're still wrapped in their plastic - can I swap them for two of those smaller ones?"
"Do you have a receipt?"
"No, but clearly they're your company's - your logo's printed all over their sides. Anyway, I bought them from your colleague (standing in the corner) a few days ago."
"Sorry, mate. Can't do it. Need to put them back on the system, you know?"

If it were me with the boxes I would be looking for a refund using (perhaps chancing) the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act.

(4) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business and the buyer, expressly or by implication, makes known to the seller any particular purpose for which the goods are being bought, there is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are reasonably fit for that purpose, whether or not that is a purpose for which such goods are commonly supplied, except where the circumstances show that the buyer does not rely, or that it is unreasonable for him to rely, on the seller's skill or judgement

Scioch

Cringer wrote: »

Was the receipt required for proof of purchase or did he need the receipt to scan a barcode from it or some such?

If he simply wanted proof of purchase, and had you paid with a Laser Card you would have the proof there on the statement.

If the original receipt was needed that had some special codes on it then that I can understand, but requirements for a proof of purchase only suggests he decided to act within the "no receipt no return" rather than his discretion.

So, what exactly was the receipt needed for?

Provided he had the authority to have discretion. The receipt was likely needed to enable him to accept the return in his capacity as a shop assistant. There is no special codes, its entirely to do with what the guy he was dealing with had the authority to do.

Anywhere I worked in CS only senior members of staff could deal with things at their discretion. Everyone else was told not to accept returns without a receipt. If there was nobody else there with the authority then nothing can be done. If the OP didnt ask for someone else then thats another mistake he made. Bought wrong item, threw away receipt, didnt deal with someone capable of resolving it and confused the situation by asking to swap for items of different value. Which would have to be done after a refund was given and the new items sold.

Regular staff cant, wont and shouldnt be expected to be able to do that.