Railfreight

LuckyLloyd

Very annoying

IE 222

Isambard wrote: »

Dublin and Cork both have their own container ports.

I dont get your point.

There was at least 2 or 3 flows a day eachway in the 2000s.

davidlacey

IE 222 wrote: »

I dont get your point.

There was at least 2 or 3 flows a day eachway in the 2000s.

Pre national road upgrades though!

L1011

There are very few domestic flows anymore. Passenger traffic is no indication of freight traffic.

Jamie2k9

Hopefully DFDS can resume in future again. IWT is also down capacity wise from its peak. Both are more less fighting for the same traffic.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Hopefully DFDS can resume in future again. IWT is also down capacity wise from its peak. Both are more less fighting for the same traffic.

DFDS resumption is unlikely.

IWTs are generally full, loadings change from time to time, it's a seasonal thing. But I can't see how they are down capacity wise from their peak?

IWTs will be increasing to 24 wagon lengths later this year.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

DFDS resumption is unlikely.

IWTs are generally full, loadings change from time to time, it's a seasonal thing. But I can't see how they are down capacity wise from their peak?

IWTs will be increasing to 24 wagon lengths later this year.

It was operating more than daily a summer or two ago. I don't think it was that busy in 2017 (freq) and probally not this year either. Loads are good overall.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It was operating more than daily a summer or two ago.

And still is.

LuckyLloyd

Where does IWT run to and from?

GM228

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Where does IWT run to and from?

Dublin Port to Ballina.

andrewfaulk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It was operating more than daily a summer or two ago. I don't think it was that busy in 2017 (freq) and probally not this year either. Loads are good overall.

Can I ask what the basis for this is I.e what are you basing this comment on?

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

And still is.

Admittedly I didn't track it as often as I would have liked but was 2017 schedules the same as 2016. It just seems a little quieter.

Can I ask what the basis for this is I.e what are you basing this comment on?

Which part freq or loads?

The_Wanderer

Wednesday 30th May 2018:

The final update for May features the final Waterford to Ballina DFDS Liner at Kildare with 083 and at Hybla with 079. 079 took over from 083 at Kildare. The freight flow has ceased due to traffic levels on the route being too low for DFDS to sustain.

Click http://goo.gl/xAAb1p to see the pictures of the Liner plus the passenger traffic passing Kildare at this time.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Admittedly I didn't track it as often as I would have liked but was 2017 schedules the same as 2016. It just seems a little quieter.



Which part freq or loads?

Overall there were more IWTs in 2017 than 2016, it has grown year on year.

andrewfaulk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Admittedly I didn't track it as often as I would have liked but was 2017 schedules the same as 2016. It just seems a little quieter.



Which part freq or loads?

I see, cause you were way off the mark.. 2016 was prob one of the lowest years in terms of trains, as we applied lean engineering(learnt from my time in IE ironically) to the train ops.. 2017 was busier, particularly Q3 and Q4 as we were up to 10 trains a week to handle the extra business arising from Hurricane damage to the Coca-Cola plant in Puerto Rico.. That business finished at the end of 2017..

So far 2018 has been the busiest year in my time with IWT, we’re up 1 train a week on normal 2017 ops(to 6/7/8 a week), with a 2nd likely as more business moves to the Ballina plant(7/8 per week)..

Also, load factor Dublin to Ballina is 99.5% since mid 2016.. which is the leg that matters

The longer trains can’t come soon enough

Jamie2k9

andrewfaulk wrote: »

I see, cause you were way off the mark.. 2016 was prob one of the lowest years in terms of trains, as we applied lean engineering(learnt from my time in IE ironically) to the train ops.. 2017 was busier, particularly Q3 and Q4 as we were up to 10 trains a week to handle the extra business arising from Hurricane damage to the Coca-Cola plant in Puerto Rico.. That business finished at the end of 2017..

So far 2018 has been the busiest year in my time with IWT, we’re up 1 train a week on normal 2017 ops(to 6/7/8 a week), with a 2nd likely as more business moves to the Ballina plant(7/8 per week)..

Also, load factor Dublin to Ballina is 99.5% since mid 2016.. which is the leg that matters

The longer trains can’t come soon enough

Knew loads were very high, I guess it was the plant damage and subsequent drop in freq after which make me think it has been reduced.

tabbey

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Wednesday 30th May 2018:

The final update for May features the final Waterford to Ballina DFDS Liner at Kildare with 083 and at Hybla with 079. 079 took over from 083 at Kildare. The freight flow has ceased due to traffic levels on the route being too low for DFDS to sustain.

Click http://goo.gl/xAAb1p to see the pictures of the Liner plus the passenger traffic passing Kildare at this time.

Am I right in thinking that the overbridge at Hybla is the private access to Hybla House?
All other roads between Cherryville and Monasterevan seem to be underbridges or level crossings.

IE 222

Has the closure of the Carlow coke plant increased production in Ballina. Is IWT seen a increase in volume from this.

Is any of the Waterford traffic likely to change to IWT via Dublin.

IE 222

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0614/970482-maritime-links/

Could this bring some rail frieght back. Would the EU insist on rail been utilised more if given a major investment.

Isambard

wouldn't they just ship goods into the port of the City where they consigned to?

IE 222

Isambard wrote: »

wouldn't they just ship goods into the port of the City where they consigned to?

I can't see every Irish port getting a continental shipping service. My guess would be one or two new routes through Cork (containers) and Rosslare (passengers & roll on/off) and leaving Dublin handle UK traffic if a customs boarder comes into effect.

I think the whole Brexit issue is a red herring, any EU freight can transit via a third country without issue as long as it is "sealed" before leaving the EU teritory and arrives back within EU territory unopened.


All the current freight via the UK can continue as normal, people are playing politics.

May Contain Small Parts

Isambard wrote: »

wouldn't they just ship goods into the port of the City where they consigned to?

Most container ships aren't going to ports in Ireland, they're stopping off on their way from China and Singapore to Felixtowe, Rotterdam and Hamburg. It would cost them a huge amount of time (ie. money) to pop by all the ports in Ireland.

It's a little like expecting a Dublin bus to take a detour and drop you off at your house.

Isambard

they would just put the container on the right ship in the first place, not divert ships.

L1011

Isambard wrote: »

they would just put the container on the right ship in the first place, not divert ships.

The shipping routes you want don't exist

andrewfaulk

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

Most container ships aren't going to ports in Ireland, they're stopping off on their way from China and Singapore to Felixtowe, Rotterdam and Hamburg. It would cost them a huge amount of time (ie. money) to pop by all the ports in Ireland.

It's a little like expecting a Dublin bus to take a detour and drop you off at your house.

Your concept of shipping is all wrong.. with one or two exceptions, no ship goes from Ireland direct to anywhere outside Europe.. Seafreight works on a hub and spike basis, with Rotterdam’s and Antwerp the main hubs for Ireland.. The main ports in Ireland for containers( Cork, Belfast and Dublin) are served by weekly(or more regular) feeder vessels from the main hubs.. So it’s quite easier to get a container to the nearest port and have a short delivery by road to most destinations in Ireland, this is one of the big reasons for containerised rail freight not being big in Ireland.. your scenario applies to the U.K., where big vessels call to he south coast ports and containers are then railed to the midlands, north and scotland

andrewfaulk

Has the closure of the Carlow coke plant increased production in Ballina. Is IWT seen a increase in volume from this.

Coca-Cola Athy due to close by the end of 2019.. will be a gradual transition to production in Ballina but will be more containers to/from Ballina

Is any of the Waterford traffic likely to change to IWT via Dublin
Yes, tanks have stayed in the rails

GM228

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Has the closure of the Carlow coke plant increased production in Ballina. Is IWT seen a increase in volume from this.

Coca-Cola Athy due to close by the end of 2019.. will be a gradual transition to production in Ballina but will be more containers to/from Ballina

Athy plant is still in full production until September when a 15 month wind down begins. IWT volume is increasing anyway (and has done year on year since it began). Train lenghts will be increased later this year.

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Is any of the Waterford traffic likely to change to IWT via Dublin
Yes, tanks have stayed in the rails

Unlikely unless the customers changed shipping companies, DFDS will just forward containers by road where required instead of by train.

Isambard

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Your concept of shipping is all wrong.. with one or two exceptions, no ship goes from Ireland direct to anywhere outside Europe.. Seafreight works on a hub and spike basis, with Rotterdam’s and Antwerp the main hubs for Ireland.. The main ports in Ireland for containers( Cork, Belfast and Dublin) are served by weekly(or more regular) feeder vessels from the main hubs.. So it’s quite easier to get a container to the nearest port and have a short delivery by road to most destinations in Ireland, this is one of the big reasons for containerised rail freight not being big in Ireland.. your scenario applies to the U.K., where big vessels call to he south coast ports and containers are then railed to the midlands, north and scotland

that was my impression of how it works.Thanks

andrewfaulk

Unlikely unless the customers changed shipping companies, DFDS will just forward containers by road where required instead of by train.[/quote]

The tanks are still on the rails to/from Ballina..

GM228

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Unlikely unless the customers changed shipping companies, DFDS will just forward containers by road where required instead of by train.

The tanks are still on the rails to/from Ballina..

Both the DFDS and IWT carried/carry the tanks (Dana, GCATainer etc), they have been on the IWTs for years now, no extra traffic has gone to IWT from DFDS as a result of the loss of the rail service.

andrewfaulk

GM228 wrote: »

Both the DFDS and IWT carried/carry the tanks (Dana, GCATainer etc), they have been on the IWTs for years now, no extra traffic has gone to IWT from DFDS as a result of the loss of the rail service.

DFDS had a volume of approx 300 tanks per annum, DANA tanks.. this has moved to the IWT service as additional business.. IWT now carries 98% of tanks for Ballina Beverages

Del.Monte

IE 222 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0614/970482-maritime-links/

Could this bring some rail frieght back. Would the EU insist on rail been utilised more if given a major investment.

Nah, it will probably prompt CIE to speed up their withdrawal of the remaining rail service to Rosslare and sweep away the 'new' station to make way for more Ro-Ro traffic.

jasper100

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Your concept of shipping is all wrong.. with one or two exceptions, no ship goes from Ireland direct to anywhere outside Europe.. Seafreight works on a hub and spike basis, with Rotterdam’s and Antwerp the main hubs for Ireland.. The main ports in Ireland for containers( Cork, Belfast and Dublin) are served by weekly(or more regular) feeder vessels from the main hubs.. So it’s quite easier to get a container to the nearest port and have a short delivery by road to most destinations in Ireland, this is one of the big reasons for containerised rail freight not being big in Ireland.. your scenario applies to the U.K., where big vessels call to he south coast ports and containers are then railed to the midlands, north and scotland

I wonder will things change now that Liverpool has a new mega container port? Might we see a lot of container freight for Ireland landing in Liverpool, and a regular container service Dublin - Liverpool, this could consolidate a lot of Irish container freight into Dublin and create a viable onward distribution network by rail.

Isambard

doubtful post Brexit.

andrewfaulk

jasper100 wrote: »

I wonder will things change now that Liverpool has a new mega container port? Might we see a lot of container freight for Ireland landing in Liverpool, and a regular container service Dublin - Liverpool, this could consolidate a lot of Irish container freight into Dublin and create a viable onward distribution network by rail.

Liverpool has always had a decent sized port, it just seems to be a thing that ports are marketing themselves better now and throwing around phrases like megaport(see Cork, apparently Waterford too).. The fact is that geography works against Liverpool for most deep sea/ rest of world container services.. They would have to sail a day up the Irish Sea to call at Liverpool, offload and sail a day back down to get to the next port(likely Antwerp, Rotterdam or Bremen).. Liverpool mainly handles transatlantic or inter european container traffic, and already has feeder vessels to Dublin(twice a week) and Cork(Once a week).. So can’t see it really impacting rail freight in Ireland unfortunately.. not 100% on this but I believe most of the traffic on the Dublin-Cork liner before it ended in 2005 was travelling to/from Liverpool via Dublin( Hapag Lloyd and Coastal containers)

jasper100

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Liverpool has always had a decent sized port, it just seems to be a thing that ports are marketing themselves better now and throwing around phrases like megaport(see Cork, apparently Waterford too).. The fact is that geography works against Liverpool for most deep sea/ rest of world container services.. They would have to sail a day up the Irish Sea to call at Liverpool, offload and sail a day back down to get to the next port(likely Antwerp, Rotterdam or Bremen).. Liverpool mainly handles transatlantic or inter european container traffic, and already has feeder vessels to Dublin(twice a week) and Cork(Once a week).. So can’t see it really impacting rail freight in Ireland unfortunately.. not 100% on this but I believe most of the traffic on the Dublin-Cork liner before it ended in 2005 was travelling to/from Liverpool via Dublin( Hapag Lloyd and Coastal containers)

Liverpool have invested £400m in developing a new container port capable of handling the worlds largest container ships. Whether or not this becomes the main trans shipment point for Ireland remains to be seen.

Brexit is irrelevant, its transit traffic so won't need any customs clearance etc. in the UK.

andrewfaulk

jasper100 wrote: »

Liverpool have invested £400m in developing a new container port capable of handling the worlds largest container ships. Whether or not this becomes the main trans shipment point for Ireland remains to be seen.

Unless they’re spending the £400m on towing the port down to the south coast of the U.K., it won’t fundamentally change the economics of deep sea shipping or railfreight in Ireland.. And I can’t see why lines would move cargo for say Cork or the south of Ireland via Liverpool and Dublin instead of Port of Cork in any scenario

marno21

Article now today's Business Post about rail freight, Irish Rail in discussions over two rail freight contracts:

Coillte wood products to Dublin Port via the Sligo line (doesn't say origin) and shipping contaminated soil from the Roche pharmaceutical site in Clarecastle from Ennis station to Dublin Port

It also says IE are "engaged with a number of customers for potential new rail freight contracts".

h.gricer

marno21 wrote: »

Article

Coillte wood products to Dublin Port via the Sligo line (doesn't say origin) and shipping contaminated soil from the Roche pharmaceutical site in Clarecastle from Ennis station to Dublin Port
.

Watch this space, could be something in the near future.
hg

Jamie2k9

Port of Waterford also trying to restore Ballina DFDS, more hope than anything I suspect.

andrewfaulk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Port of Waterford also trying to restore Ballina DFDS, more hope than anything I suspect.

You giving odds on it happening?

Jamie2k9

andrewfaulk wrote: »

You giving odds on it happening?

The service ceased a few months ago and nothing has changed since nor can I see it in the next 6 months. Would be great to see it back but unless DFDS have a major up turn in demand from Ballina it won't happen.

andrewfaulk

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The service ceased a few months ago and nothing has changed since nor can I see it in the next 6 months. Would be great to see it back but unless DFDS have a major up turn in demand from Ballina it won't happen.

Thought you were more clued in than that Jamie:

Port of Waterford are saying
"Talks to reactive the line are, as Mr Ronan put it, “ongoing with interested parties to try and make that happen”.
No mention of DFDS, full article at:
http://www.munster-express.ie/business/port-bids-to-restore-rail-connection/

Also, read up a few threads and you will see that the closure of the Athy Coca-Cola plant has lead to an upturn in production in Ballina..

Jamie2k9

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Thought you were more clued in than that Jamie:

Port of Waterford are saying
"Talks to reactive the line are, as Mr Ronan put it, “ongoing with interested parties to try and make that happen”.
No mention of DFDS, full article at:
http://www.munster-express.ie/business/port-bids-to-restore-rail-connection/

Also, read up a few threads and you will see that the closure of the Athy Coca-Cola plant has lead to an upturn in production in Ballina..

I still don't see it happening anytime soon...

The_Wanderer

andrewfaulk wrote: »

Thought you were more clued in than that Jamie:

Port of Waterford are saying
"Talks to reactive the line are, as Mr Ronan put it, “ongoing with interested parties to try and make that happen”.
No mention of DFDS, full article at:
http://www.munster-express.ie/business/port-bids-to-restore-rail-connection/

Also, read up a few threads and you will see that the closure of the Athy Coca-Cola plant has lead to an upturn in production in Ballina..

Interested parties being IWT??

GM228

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Interested parties being IWT??

IWT have no shipping lines to/from Waterford,

Samskip however have a Rotterdam-Waterford service. Samskip and DFDS are the only interested parties unless new shipping routes come on stream into Waterford port.

The only way I could see IWT (or any other operators bar the above) becoming involved is if they operated a train independent of the shipping route, but I can't see that happening as it would be a risky business dependant on DFDS or Samskip business and I don't think the shipping operators work off the back of each other's business.

IE 222

I belive Marino Point is on the cards as well apart of the new plans due next month.

Other than Ballina is there anywhere else bulk shipments are made from Waterford?

Would low loader wagons fit on the IE network or are bridge heights a problem. Would there be much demand for transporting trailers.

Stephen15

IE 222 wrote: »

I belive Marino Point is on the cards as well apart of the new plans due next month.

Other than Ballina is there anywhere else bulk shipments are made from Waterford?

Would low loader wagons fit on the IE network or are bridge heights a problem. Would there be much demand for transporting trailers.

Wouldn't think there would be huge demand here in a small country like Ireland.

IE 222

Stephen15 wrote: »

Wouldn't think there would be huge demand here in a small country like Ireland.

I can't see full trains been made up but maybe 5 - 10 with containers filling the rest. A lot of UK companies especially retailers still send trailers over to Dublin Port to shipped nationwide.