Railfreight

BoatMad · 28-04-2015 8:22pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Would it be cheaper to install bulk handling facilities in Bellview than reinstating the Foynes line?

I suspect that no money is available to do anything with belview. The port is much more restrictive then foynes, which is a deep water port whereas Waterford isn't.

J Cheever Loophole · 28-04-2015 10:44pm

Victor wrote: »

How did the cement used in the mines get to Navan?

For information - after each 'tunnel' of ore was dug out, it was backfilled with a mix of cement and the non-lead / zinc parts of the ore. This means that when adjacent two tunnels have been backfilled, they can then dig out the middle bit, thereby extracting the maximum amount of lead and zinc possible.

Does this mean that if Pallasgreen (sp?) was opened as a successful mine, the possibility of a cement flow in by rail might be a possibility? And just on the subject, in the event of a freight flow to Foynes, would there be a need for a new rail spur to the mine and if so would it be long?

Victor · 28-04-2015 11:51pm

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Does this mean that if Pallasgreen (sp?) was opened as a successful mine, the possibility of a cement flow in by rail might be a possibility?

Possibly, but that would depend on the economics of it. And whether the cement supplier / the mine trusts rail freight.

would there be a need for a new rail spur to the mine and if so would it be long?

I don't knwo where the ore deposit is, but the two villages are right next to the railway: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,577068,646386,4,1 So quite short.

L1011 · 29-04-2015 7:52am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Would it be cheaper to install bulk handling facilities in Bellview than reinstating the Foynes line?

The port company will likely be looking at other future flows too. Reconnection has been on the agenda for years

John Denver · 29-04-2015 9:56pm

sporty56 wrote: »

Irish Cement Ltd. were the only cement manufacturer to use rail for distribution of their products.

Didn't the Tegral plant in Athy have a branch which was used to carry cemet loadings?

end of the road · 29-04-2015 10:25pm

John Denver wrote: »

Didn't the Tegral plant in Athy have a branch which was used to carry cemet loadings?

yes . closed in 2005?

metrovick001 · 01-05-2015 11:08pm

It sure did.
Cement went in and empty trains came out.
Traffic ran from Limerick in a dedicated rake of wagons as it was a special type of cement.
Unfortunately like so many other freight flows on our railway it finished up in 2005 (the week after St. Patricks day).

John Denver wrote: »

Didn't the Tegral plant in Athy have a branch which was used to carry cemet loadings?

sporty56 · 02-05-2015 10:32pm

Tegral switched from using irish Cement to a competitor who delivered by road tanker.

end of the road · 02-05-2015 11:47pm

sporty56 wrote: »

Tegral switched from using irish Cement to a competitor who delivered by road tanker.

wasn't that because they were winding down? i think that plant is closed now? or is it?

sporty56 · 03-05-2015 2:59pm

Tegral are very much still in busness and were extremley busy when they switched supplier. Sponsors of Kildare GAA "Flourbags" up to fairly recently.

end of the road · 03-05-2015 10:49pm

sporty56 wrote: »

Tegral are very much still in busness and were extremley busy when they switched supplier. Sponsors of Kildare GAA "Flourbags" up to fairly recently.

ah i see. thanks for the correction.

Thedarkb · 04-05-2015 6:04pm

Are there any four wheeled wagons left around? I know there's a rake of hoppers.

Captain Chaos · 04-05-2015 6:18pm

Thedarkb wrote: »

Are there any four wheeled wagons left around? I know there's a rake of hoppers.

All I know of is a half rake of hoppers with a single plough van at Northwall and a 20ft flat in Longford yard.

Thedarkb · 04-05-2015 6:20pm

could be used for an ore flow or something?

Captain Chaos · 04-05-2015 6:25pm

Thedarkb wrote: »

could be used for an ore flow or something?

They would be better off using the 20 shale wagons stored in Limerick for that if the need ever happens. They have already modified 3 shale wagons to be added to the tara mines ore wagons a long time ago.

GM228 · 04-05-2015 9:09pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

All I know of is a half rake of hoppers with a single plough van at Northwall and a 20ft flat in Longford yard.

Not even a half rake, perhaps four or five left max, also none in Longford, but two in Enfield, one in Connolly, about five in Heuston and several at Inchicore, Limerick and Portlaoise, but I'm guessing the original poster may have been enquiring about the cement type, all have been scraped except one which is preserved I believe.

GM228

GM228

Thedarkb · 05-05-2015 12:09am

I was enquiring about four wheelers in general, are such ancient wagon designs viable today?

Captain Chaos · 05-05-2015 12:19am

Thedarkb wrote: »

I was enquiring about four wheelers in general, are such ancient wagon designs viable today?

The only viable use they could have today would be as a barrier wagon. There used to be one in Connolly for when the pilot 141 would have to shunt defective DD stock. NIR had one at York Road if a 111 had to shunt DD stock or the DMUs with a knuckle couple fitted to it.

Lately though the 111s have used the withdrawn Gatwick stock as barrier wagons to haul 80 and 450 class for scrapping.

Thedarkb · 05-05-2015 12:23am

That plough van should be converted to air brakes and put on the HOBS train, save them plowing it later with road railers

Captain Chaos · 05-05-2015 12:47am

Thedarkb wrote: »

That plough van should be converted to air brakes and put on the HOBS train, save them plowing it later with road railers

The feature of the HOBS is that they don't need the ballast plowed after. They have variable rate chutes to control the flow of ballast as it dropped it real time. They can be pre set or controlled in real time by handheld remote by track side workers that walk beside the train as it drops ballast.

BoatMad · 07-05-2015 3:06pm

Thedarkb wrote: »

I was enquiring about four wheelers in general, are such ancient wagon designs viable today?

nothing wrong with 4 wheel wagons per se . anything with continuous fitted brakes could be resurrected assuming material strength was sufficient

Thedarkb · 07-05-2015 5:03pm

Would make more sense for very small wagons to have only four wheels

kc56 · 01-06-2015 10:28pm

Empty timber at Kildare at 1400 today with 086
Laden timber at Kildare at 1900 today (regular Monday movement)

I presume this implies that there are 2 rakes of timbers since I don't think it's possible to get from Kildare to Westport, load, and get back to Kildare in under 5 hours (not even possible with passenger trains).

Captain Chaos · 02-06-2015 12:21am

Yes as far as I know there are at least 24 timber wagons, so two sets of 12. I assume there must be a few more as maintenance spares.

Itssoeasy · 07-06-2015 12:25pm

I've a question about freight wagons and from what I understand a lot have been scrapped, but how much of an undertaking would it be to make new ones if the need arose where more freight flows came along ?

I'm presuming that all were built in house in inchicore previously ? I've always wondered how easy it would be and it seems very short sighted to have scrapped stuff even if the chance of them being used again is small.

Losty Dublin · 07-06-2015 1:42pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've a question about freight wagons and from what I understand a lot have been scrapped, but how much of an undertaking would it be to make new ones if the need arose where more freight flows came along ?

I'm presuming that all were built in house in inchicore previously ? I've always wondered how easy it would be and it seems very short sighted to have scrapped stuff even if the chance of them being used again is small.

You'd be shocked to hear the age of the vast majority of freight wagons that were or currently in traffic. The vast majority of the fleet is circa 40 years old with the yellow pocket wagons and new new yellow auto ballast wagons being the notable exception. Some, like the 4 wheel cement and beet wagon, are older again. Almost all the freight fleet is vacuum braked with some loose workings existing until the recent past.

Limerick is the location for wagon servicing and has a lot of the old fleet in storage; don't ask me what exactly is down there but there are spare wagons to hand when required; Waterford also has spare wagons to hand. A new fleet wouldn't take much more than a tender for what is a common wagon all told.

In general the freight wagons were Irish built. In the case of IFI tanks the under frame and tanks were built in France and leased by IFI, Irish Rail supplying and owning the bogies.

Jamie2k9 · 07-06-2015 6:04pm

Building commences this month, takes up to 2 years to complete. Doesn't say if it will partly open before completion but we could be 2017 before freight starts. Wagons are lined up in Mallow at present.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0607/706493-biomass-plant-mayo/

elastico · 07-06-2015 8:59pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Building commences this month, takes up to 2 years to complete. Doesn't say if it will partly open before completion but we could be 2017 before freight starts. Wagons are lined up in Mallow at present.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0607/706493-biomass-plant-mayo/

Possible business for Foynes port?

roundymac · 07-06-2015 9:17pm

Or Cork or any port on the west coast in reality.

end of the road · 07-06-2015 9:23pm

roundymac wrote: »

Or Cork or any port on the west coast in reality.

more likely dublin or waterford. i can't see cork being rail connected again, that has been made sure of

elastico · 07-06-2015 9:36pm

end of the road wrote: »

more likely dublin or waterford. i can't see cork being rail connected again, that has been made sure of

Foynes are actively seeking to be rail connected again, which is why I was asking the question.

I suppose I should have worded the question differently.

Would Foynes be a potential port for this freight if it had a rail connection?

GM228 · 07-06-2015 9:38pm

end of the road wrote: »

more likely dublin or waterford. i can't see cork being rail connected again, that has been made sure of

This is the MRF Biomass liner which has been talked about for a long time which the wagons are already ready for!

Due to start Q1 2017 and the Biomass fuel will be imported from the US via Dublin.

GM228

elastico · 07-06-2015 9:55pm

GM228 wrote: »

This is the MRF Biomass liner which has been talked about for a long time which the wagons are already ready for!

Due to start Q1 2017 and the Biomass fuel will be imported from the US via Dublin.

GM228

Why Dublin?

Foynes is a lot closer by sea and less congested too.

(Assuming there is a rail connection in place of course!)

end of the road · 07-06-2015 10:45pm

elastico wrote: »

Foynes are actively seeking to be rail connected again, which is why I was asking the question.

I suppose I should have worded the question differently.

Would Foynes be a potential port for this freight if it had a rail connection?

your question as written was fine.

Jamie2k9 · 07-06-2015 11:24pm

One wonders are Belview's days numbered, the weekly CPW is mostly empty. Not that's it's IE fault but they have spent a few quid upgrading the line in recent months...

If they add a couple of flats to current limits then it can all go via Dublin and their annual report suggest's it will happen.

Belview really needed the Biomass flows and while it could change from Dublin it's unlikely.

Thedarkb · 07-06-2015 11:28pm

There are usually only 2-4 empties on a DFDS ignoring delayed shippings and things, I'm fairly sure it's ok

Captain Chaos · 07-06-2015 11:30pm

Is the IWT just winning more shipping slots from DFDS? Seems a waste reinstating in the CPWs for that flow now that it has deteriorated so fast in such a short time frame.

Victor · 08-06-2015 6:05am

elastico wrote: »

Foynes is a lot closer by sea and less congested too.

On a trans-Atlantic scale, it is only barely closer.

But doesn't have the same ease of access.

Less congested might be another word for less serviced.

roundymac · 08-06-2015 3:05pm

end of the road wrote: »

more likely dublin or waterford. i can't see cork being rail connected again, that has been made sure of

Why not Cork? Marino Point would be perfect for it, the Cobh line runs right alongside it, a couple of sets of points and whtever amount of lines you want to put in. The jetty is already there, what ever bits of unloading gear is needed and away you go.

BoatMad · 08-06-2015 3:37pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

One wonders are Belview's days numbered, the weekly CPW is mostly empty. Not that's it's IE fault but they have spent a few quid upgrading the line in recent months...

If they add a couple of flats to current limits then it can all go via Dublin and their annual report suggest's it will happen.

Belview really needed the Biomass flows and while it could change from Dublin it's unlikely.

Unfortunately belview is failing as a port. The dredging costs are killing it and even them the river limits large vessels.

end of the road · 08-06-2015 3:47pm

roundymac wrote: »

Why not Cork? Marino Point would be perfect for it, the Cobh line runs right alongside it, a couple of sets of points and whtever amount of lines you want to put in. The jetty is already there, what ever bits of unloading gear is needed and away you go.

well, it could be done i'm sure. mind you it would have been better if it had remained rail connected in the first place

BoatMad · 08-06-2015 4:12pm

end of the road wrote: »

well, it could be done i'm sure. mind you it would have been better if it had remained rail connected in the first place

Well cork port is basically moving to ringaskiddy anyway. That was never rail connected and never will be

Thedarkb · 11-06-2015 12:21am

For some reason, the laden timbers are either running late or not at all on the waterford line this week, any changes to the timetable or anything?

roundymac · 11-06-2015 11:06am

BoatMad wrote: »

Well cork port is basically moving to ringaskiddy anyway. That was never rail connected and never will be

Only the Tivoli container port and the upper jetties. Marino point is only about two miles from Ringakiddy on the north side of the river. The site is in Nama and could be aquired quite easily.

NUTLEY BOY · 15-06-2015 11:54am

Saw one of those freight trains leaving Dublin Port the other day. Where do those trains actually go to unload / load the containers ?

MrMorooka · 15-06-2015 12:37pm

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Saw one of those freight trains leaving Dublin Port the other day. Where do those trains actually go to unload / load the containers ?

Here