Railfreight

Pete2k

Is any of the rest of the tramway and the sidings further down alexandra road ever used or even travellelled on by an inspection car to maintain them anymore or have they been abandoned?

Captain Chaos

Pete2k wrote: »

Is any of the rest of the tramway and the sidings further down alexandra road ever used or even travellelled on by an inspection car to maintain them anymore or have they been abandoned?

Abandoned, last time the full length was used was part of the first batches of ICRs being delivered to Ocean Pier, and I think some of the refurb DARTs returning but I could be wrong on that one. That's a container terminal now at the very end.

end of the road

so when new stock is bought again where would it be unloaded?

flyingsnail

end of the road wrote: »

so when new stock is bought again where would it be unloaded?

When the 22s came in they were offloaded from the ship onto a lorry and then they used mobile cranes on Alexandra road to put them on rails.

Thedarkb

end of the road wrote: »

so when new stock is bought again where would it be unloaded?

Belview

LXFlyer

flyingsnail wrote: »

When the 22s came in they were offloaded from the ship onto a lorry and then they used mobile cranes on Alexandra road to put them on rails.

The later ones were delivered to the container terminal.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Abandoned, last time the full length was used was part of the first batches of ICRs being delivered to Ocean Pier, and I think some of the refurb DARTs returning but I could be wrong on that one. That's a container terminal now at the very end.

Indeed the last time the full line was used was for early ICR deliveries, the line as far as the Eucon container terminal was in regular use for the IWT until the Common User Terminal opened a few years ago, the line isn't abandoned but is actually maintained by Dublin Port who see it as an important part of their ports future!

GM228

Victor

Pete2k wrote: »

Is any of the rest of the tramway and the sidings further down alexandra road ever used or even travellelled on by an inspection car to maintain them anymore or have they been abandoned?

Almost all the track is bedded in concrete, so little need for inspection. The risk of encroachment by landowners is also much reduced.

GM228 wrote: »

Indeed the last time the full line was used was for early ICR deliveries, the line as far as the Eucon container terminal was in regular use for the IWT until the Common User Terminal opened a few years ago, the line isn't abandoned but is actually maintained by Dublin Port who see it as an important part of their ports future!

GM228

The sections marked abandoned (blue) on the attached have actually been removed.

http://www.itoworld.com/map/26?lon=-6.20990&lat=53.34878&zoom=16&fullscreen=true&open_sidebar=map_key

GM228

Victor wrote: »

Almost all the track is bedded in concrete, so little need for inspection. The risk of encroachment by landowners is also much reduced.

The sections marked abandoned (blue) on the attached have actually been removed.

http://www.itoworld.com/map/26?lon=-6.20990&lat=53.34878&zoom=16&fullscreen=true&open_sidebar=map_key

Most maintenance involves the points and welding in any broken/worn spots.

Indeed the blue sections were removed many years ago, even some of the brown sections are no longer there.

GM228

Captain Chaos

In regards to the future possibility of 201s taking over tara duties from the 071s (chances are it will go by road and not rail when the 071s are retired). In order to get around the fact that a 201 can't fit on the traverser would it not be an option for the train to run into the Common User Terminal used for the IWT liners. This would allow the loco to run around the train, it then heads back out onto the tramway and then propels the wagons into the unloading facility and from there the process is the same as it is now for the 071s.

Other than that, have a 201 run around in the yard and then propel the train down the tramway with a flag man leading as usual. Probably a non running as I'd say Health and Safety would have a field day with that concept.

end of the road

Captain Chaos wrote: »

In regards to the future possibility of 201s taking over tara duties from the 071s (chances are it will go by road and not rail when the 071s are retired). In order to get around the fact that a 201 can't fit on the traverser would it not be an option for the train to run into the Common User Terminal used for the IWT liners. This would allow the loco to run around the train, it then heads back out onto the tramway and then propels the wagons into the unloading facility and from there the process is the same as it is now for the 071s.

Other than that, have a 201 run around in the yard and then propel the train down the tramway with a flag man leading as usual. Probably a non running as I'd say Health and Safety would have a field day with that concept.

i believe the planning permission doesn't allow it to go by road apart from extreme emergencies (which IE retiring locos probably doesn't fit) . of course the mine could be expired by the time the 071 retires so it may not be an issue but if not IE will have to find a way.

Jamie2k9

Anybody know if the Waterford bound Freight on a Friday afternoon has being re scheduled to improve OTP on scheduled services which have been severally impacted since the 16.00 (ex Waterford) and 16.15 (ex Dublin) (limited stopping) services were added in recent months. Since both have been operating together only 2 of 12 Fridays have schedules run on time and around 5 minutes from around 15.00 on Fridays throws the full schedule out for the day and the down freight seem's to play a big role.

Have not overtaken or saw it run ahead in a while.

Deutschbahn

Irish Rail 071 no.074 hauls Per Way flat wagons on the 09:15 Portlaoise to North Wall passed Hazelhatch & Celbridge on the 03/07/15

VIDEO on Youtube here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ez7Sa7nSEU

John Denver

Went down and had a look at the down DFDS CPW liner this evening on its way out to Belview port and it was barely loaded. 2 out of the 12 wagons were loaded with just 2 45ft container boxes. Looked pretty miserable being honest.

Jamie2k9

John Denver wrote: »

Went down and had a look at the down DFDS CPW liner this evening on its way out to Belview port and it was barely loaded. 2 out of the 12 wagons were loaded with just 2 45ft container boxes. Looked pretty miserable being honest.

It's been like that for months, very few times will you see it near fully loaded. Clearly most is going to Dublin or just a drop in demand.

Losty Dublin

John Denver wrote: »

Went down and had a look at the down DFDS CPW liner this evening on its way out to Belview port and it was barely loaded. 2 out of the 12 wagons were loaded with just 2 45ft container boxes. Looked pretty miserable being honest.

The liners collect as well as deliver containers for the ferry. There are times when some wagons on the train are empty and even the odd time when it's close to empty. This is the case on departures and arrives at Waterford, North Wall and Ballina.

Jamie2k9

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The liners collect as well as deliver containers for the ferry. There are times when some wagons on the train are empty and even the odd time when it's close to empty. This is the case on departures and arrives at Waterford, North Wall and Ballina.

Losty Dublin

The CPW to Belview are permanently empty lately, been really honest you could likely count using one hand the number of days in the last 6 months when more than 8-12 were loaded.

Really had to see how much longer the operator is prepared to pay to keep it going.

savagethegoat

does 8 to 12 loaded mean 4 to 6 empty containers?

Captain Chaos

savagethegoat wrote: »

does 8 to 12 loaded mean 4 to 6 empty containers?

The CPW trains are a max of 12 wagons. If they were using LP or LX flats then they are 18 wagon trains.

Jamie2k9

I think if you were to base the loads on averages you would come up with an average load of 4 of which is only 50% of that capacity in those 4 as they are usually half loaded in each container with those tanks

I really can't see it lasting unless something big changes, shame really but not IE's fault and they have recently replaces track/signalling to believe which could end up been a waste of money.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

they have recently replaces track/signalling to believe which could end up been a waste of money.

i wouldn't think so. it will still be of some benefit i'm sure even if this flow sadly does go

GM228

savagethegoat wrote: »

does 8 to 12 loaded mean 4 to 6 empty containers?

In the case of the CPWs yes 8 to 10 loaded means it is 4 to 2 empty as the max is 12.

If it were LYs/LPs/LXs 8 to 10 loaded would mean 10 to 8 empty as the max is 18.

GM228

savagethegoat

I mean are half the containers you see actually empty.

Captain Chaos

savagethegoat wrote: »

I mean are half the containers you see actually empty.

Depends which way it's going. The return trips are generally empty workings.

On the IWT liner for example you see the 20ft tankers doubled up on one flat wagon when empty running back to Northwall but when they are laden running to Ballina you only see one 20ft tanker loaded on each flat wagon.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Depends which way it's going. The return trips are generally empty workings.

On the IWT liner for example you see the 20ft tankers doubled up on one flat wagon when empty running back to Northwall but when they are laden running to Ballina you only see one 20ft tanker loaded on each flat wagon.

Not necessarily, yes the tanks may return empty, but often the containers will be laden in each direction, It depends on how DFDS/IWT sell the spaces on the their trains.

GM228

Jamie2k9

Passed Kildare at around 16.45 and there was flats freight train on center road facing for Dublin. Was it just a late Ballina liner or was it heading for Waterford.

The Waterford freight timetable appears to of changed so I can't keep track.

flyingsnail

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Passed Kildare at around 16.45 and there was flats freight train on center road facing for Dublin. Was it just a late Ballina liner or was it heading for Waterford.

The Waterford freight timetable appears to of changed so I can't keep track.

There was a Ballina to North wall IWT due to wait in the middle road Kildare from 16:57 – 17:11 so possibly that running a little early.

John Denver

I'm apologizing straight away because I know the information I'm looking for has been posted up on this forum before but I'm writing from my mobile it's hard to scroll through old posts.
I'm staying in Drumcondra tonight and am at a loose end tomorrow morning, and am looking for the times of the IWT liner to Ballina or if the IWT or Tara Mines rake go down the Alexandra Road Tramway tomorrow morning?

h.gricer

Depending if the IWT goes down in the morning to load, if so it's about 8am, the return from docks maybe 9.30 or 10.00, everyday is different, last week it departed most days @10.30 waiting on the possession to be lifted at Cabra (engineering works), if you are about between 9.30 & 10.30 you'll definitely see it, it departed this morning @9.50, a laden panel train departed @10.00 behind it.
9.20 Tara from Navan arrives anytime after 11.00, but more nearer 11.30, I don't want to say 11.30 and then arrives @11.15, gricing at your own risk.
Regards
hg

Jamie2k9

http://www.afloat.ie/port-news/dublin-port/item/30864-milestone-for-irish-rail-and-iwt-s-dublin-port-ballina-intermodal-services

Iarnród Éireann and International Warehousing and Transport (IWT) reached a milestone as their partnership that transports intermodal containers and tanks by rail from Dublin Port to Ballina, Co. Mayo reached the 1500th train to operate during November.

According to MultiModal, six years ago the service commenced with just two trains per week from Dublin North Wall and the equivalent return services from Ballina.

Over the intervening years the demand for the services steadily increased with up to 16 services now being operated each week. Use of rail has helped Ireland towards meeting its emissions targets with approximately 24,000 truck movements being saved from the roads and a saving of close to 5 million kgs in Co2 emissions being achieved.

Planned developments for these services include longer trains on the Dublin-Ballina route to improve the competitiveness of rail versus road. Co. Mayo is a major freight hub on the Iarnród Éireann network and in the latter part of 2015 sidings at Claremorris have been relayed and extended with one additional track being brought back into use to cope with the levels of freight now running to and from the county.

In addition to the IWT trains, pulpwood trains are operated regularly for Coillte, the Irish timber company and intermodal trains for DFDS Logistics. There are high hopes that a contract for further freight in the form of biomass will also be secured during the coming year.

ClovenHoof

Good news for a change.

What's the story with the biomass traffic? How does it work with rail? Where would it come and go to by train if the contract is won?

Jamie2k9

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Good news for a change.

What's the story with the biomass traffic? How does it work with rail? Where would it come and go to by train if the contract is won?

Ballina to Dublin or Waterford.

Would expect the contract is certain to be won by Irish Rail.

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Ballina to Dublin or Waterford.

Would expect the contract is certain to be won by Irish Rail.

They must have it in the bag otherwise why was the rake of 42ft LPs recently moved to North Wall sidings with the place empty for months with the last of the Mk3 gone. They must be waiting for final go ahead before mounting containers for the biomass on them. Probably something similar to the former beat open top containers.

elastico

You would think there would be scope for expansion of the operation. Stop in towns along the route for loading and unloading. Even a few containers on and off existing trains would surely be viable.

Victor

elastico wrote: »

You would think there would be scope for expansion of the operation. Stop in towns along the route for loading and unloading. Even a few containers on and off existing trains would surely be viable.

There is an overhead in setting up and maintaining each loading point. the nearer you are to the port, the more marginal the rail -v- road economics. It would only work were the client is right next to the railway.

savagethegoat

Victor wrote: »

There is an overhead in setting up and maintaining each loading point. the nearer you are to the port, the more marginal the rail -v- road economics. It would only work were the client is right next to the railway.

and it definitely wouldn't work as it would take far longer for Customer's goods to reach their destination and that is not how modern logistics works..

elastico

savagethegoat wrote: »

and it definitely wouldn't work as it would take far longer for Customer's goods to reach their destination and that is not how modern logistics works..

Well yes and no. Containers loaded and sent by train may take marginally longer to get to the end destination, but given the possible delays with shipping lines, customs etc., not every container is critical timed to be in on a specific day.

If a customer has a choice of €500 by road or say €400 by rail and a day extra then the day extra won't make much difference to something on a 6 or 7 week voyage from China.

end of the road

elastico wrote: »

Well yes and no. Containers loaded and sent by train may take marginally longer to get to the end destination, but given the possible delays with shipping lines, customs etc., not every container is critical timed to be in on a specific day.

If a customer has a choice of €500 by road or say €400 by rail and a day extra then the day extra won't make much difference to something on a 6 or 7 week voyage from China.

exactly. breaking the monopoly of road haulage is good for us all. it frees up some road space, it cuts our carbon, it cuts road damage, it ensures real competition. a proper country would implement a rail freight strategy, including only allowing depots beside rail lines and making them have a rail connection as part of their planning permission. this will ensure both road and rail connections. and of course making sure all ports are rail connected. you won't get every flow on to rail but there are flows out there that could have been priced onto rail with a proper strategy that would have been good for all. but we don't do strategies in this country so i guess were stuck with what we have

elastico

end of the road wrote: »

exactly. breaking the monopoly of road haulage is good for us all. it frees up some road space, it cuts our carbon, it cuts road damage, it ensures real competition. a proper country would implement a rail freight strategy, including only allowing depots beside rail lines and making them have a rail connection as part of their planning permission. this will ensure both road and rail connections. and of course making sure all ports are rail connected. you won't get every flow on to rail but there are flows out there that could have been priced onto rail with a proper strategy that would have been good for all. but we don't do strategies in this country so i guess were stuck with what we have

Volumes drives down cost. Doesn't have to be containers through ports either. Plenty of things move in volume on pallets such as kegs, bottled gas, fertilizer, coal, cement etc.

Alas one by one these were whittled away and infrastructure torn up over many years, ending the whole volume bit.

And every once in a while a railway strike came along, frustrating customers driving them onto roads.

I always find it ironic driving through Ennis in the spring time seeing the yard full of fertilizer hauled there by road, probably from Foynes port.

end of the road

elastico wrote: »

And every once in a while a railway strike came along, frustrating customers driving them onto roads.

while a problem, chances are both IE used the odd strike as an excuse to get out of rail freight, and hauliers offered a lower price as well. either way i'd suspect there probably was a bit more to it then simply "they went on strike" not that anyone denies a strike was an issue. however the issues of a strike for the customer could be got around by ensuring rail freight is always cheeper to the user then road. there is plenty you can do to encourage use of rail but when your a country ruled by governments who don't see the value of its rail infrastructure then there is no chance of that ever happening.

dowlingm

Imagine having to move this lot if you only had IE 36 TEU trains to move it with
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/intermodal/news/BNSF-transports-cargo-from-largest-ship-to-reach-US-coasts--46831

Captain Chaos

dowlingm wrote: »

Imagine having to move this lot if you only had IE 36 TEU trains to move it with
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/intermodal/news/BNSF-transports-cargo-from-largest-ship-to-reach-US-coasts--46831

BNSF did it in 10 trains, that would take IE 139 trains to offload that ship. :eek:

Jamie2k9

Port of Waterford have tweeted new DFDS container service from Waterford to W of Ireland.

Is this an additional service to the current CPW DFDS?

Losty Dublin

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Port of Waterford have tweeted new DFDS container service from Waterford to W of Ireland.

Is this an additional service to the current CPW DFDS?

Possibly. Irish Rail have been recently been load testing engines for the purpose of hauling longer heavier liners so the additional capacity may be within the current workings.

armaghlad

Are there any freight workings north of the border? I live(d) close to the Belfast-Dublin line and remember seeing freight trains regularly enough but have seen nothing in at least a decade.

flyingsnail

armaghlad wrote: »

Are there any freight workings north of the border? I live(d) close to the Belfast-Dublin line and remember seeing freight trains regularly enough but have seen nothing in at least a decade.

There is no freight north of Drogheda

Jamie2k9

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Possibly. Irish Rail have been recently been load testing engines for the purpose of hauling longer heavier liners so the additional capacity may be within the current workings.

That was specifically for IWT services, would imagine aim to reduction to a daily return not up to 10 weekly currently.

Hopefully it is a new service, the existing CPW service has picked up recently compared to a few months of poor loads of 5 if even that filled.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

That was specifically for IWT services, would imagine aim to reduction to a daily return not up to 10 weekly currently.

Hopefully it is a new service, the existing CPW service has picked up recently compared to a few months of poor loads of 5 if even that filled.

No the longer trains trials isn't specifically for IWT although they will be the first to benefit from it, the trials have actually came about following negotiations for the future Biomass train.

IE are now looking at lengthening all current freight/PWD trains except the Tara.

Del.Monte

Presumably the lengthening of freight trains will allow IE to further reduce its fleet of locomotives. :rolleyes:

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

No the longer trains trials isn't specifically for IWT although they will be the first to benefit from it, the trials have actually came about following negotiations for the future Biomass train.

IE are now looking at lengthening all current freight/PWD trains except the Tara.

Longer freight will cause lots of complications for scheduling during the day, many loops can just about fit the current 18 sets.

Anyway the I'm told the new services will be in addition to current DFDS so restoring the second weekly again. Good to see.