Railfreight

John Denver

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Port of Waterford have tweeted new DFDS container service from Waterford to W of Ireland.

Is this an additional service to the current CPW DFDS?

Jamie2k9 do you have a link to this Tweet, I can't seem to find a Port of Waterford Twitter account?

If there was an extra service a week it would make sense, a timber flow and a liner flow in each direction per day.

flyingsnail

https://twitter.com/PortofWaterford/status/703241245880147968

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Longer freight will cause lots of complications for scheduling during the day, many loops can just about fit the current 18 sets.

Not lots of complications, just one which will only occur if two 54TEU trains are required to cross at the same location, otherwise longer trains will have no impact on scheduling.

The extra time for starting/stoping due to the extra weight would be negligible.

J Cheever Loophole

GM228 wrote: »

No the longer trains trials isn't specifically for IWT although they will be the first to benefit from it, the trials have actually came about following negotiations for the future Biomass train.

Does that mean that Biomass trains will definitely happen in the future and if so what timescale would we be talking?

GM228 wrote: »

IE are now looking at lengthening all current freight/PWD trains except the Tara.

Any idea what that would look like, i.e. I assume more wagons, but might two locomotives for each train/movement be part of that thinking?

Captain Chaos

A 54 TEU train will be 27 42ft or 47ft wagons up from the current 18 wagon 36 TEU limit. For the CPWs used on the DFDS service the limit will go from 12 to 18 wagons. One CPW wagon is counted as 3 TEU and 1 42ft or 47ft is counted as 2 TEU.

A single 201 can still haul this, as the tonnege limit has gone up from 750 tons to 1,300 tons. A single 071 and 201 loco have hauled 1000 ton cement trains from Dublin to Cork in the past, it will not be much bother to them.

For the 1300 ton test train they loaded up 16 autoballasters to about three quarters full and stuck a dead 201 at the end, this added an extra 110 tons and let the test train turn back faster at Sallins without the lead loco having to run around the train.

071 and 201 locos are not permitted to double head by Irish Rail rules.

GM228

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Does that mean that Biomass trains will definitely happen in the future

Yes, wagons have already been allocated to the working and one set is already refurbished and reserved for it.

kc56

Captain Chaos wrote: »

071 and 201 locos are not permitted to double head by Irish Rail rules.

AFAIK, double heading of 071's isn't possible and they were never fitted with the necessary gear. The push-pull 201 might be capable of double-heading. Old locos like 121,141 and 181 could be, and often were, double-headed but then they were quite low powered compared to 071s.

In New Zealand, loco similar to 071s in power haul 72TEU trains so 54TEU shouldn't be a problem.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

071 and 201 locos are not permitted to double head by Irish Rail rules.

071 and 201s are permitted to double head on the Cork and Belfast lines and have been for years-it just dosn't happen and the MW equipment on the 071s is not regarded as reliable at the moment but they are all fitted with the equipment and it has been used once or twice in the past on ITG specials.

54TEU trains will be limited to 201 operation initially.

kc56

GM228 wrote: »

Yes, wagons have already been allocated to the working and one set is already refurbished and reserved for it.

What is the route?

GM228

kc56 wrote: »

What is the route?

Dublin-Ballina.

kc56

Wondering about the loop in Kildare where loco run around Waterford trains.

27x47 = 1269ft = 386m. Distance between the signals (Google) is 411m; doesn't leave much room, 26m, for a loco at each end. But that's the max possible train length - I presume 27x47ft would not go to Waterford.

J Cheever Loophole

flyingsnail wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PortofWaterford/status/703241245880147968

I note the twitter announcement actually refers to the 'North West' - I assume there is no possibility that this might be another destination other than Ballina?

Captain Chaos

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

I note the twitter announcement actually refers to the 'North West' - I assume there is no possibility that this might be another destination other than Ballina?

There is currently no other unloading site for a container train on the network. It has to be Ballina freight yard.

BoatMad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There is currently no other unloading site for a container train on the network. It has to be Ballina freight yard.

which in a sentence sums up , IE freight operations

Captain Chaos

BoatMad wrote: »

which in a sentence sums up , IE freight operations

Pretty much, I think most of North Esk yard while being disconnected is still intact but I believe it is sold off to a developer to build on.

tabbey

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Pretty much, I think most of North Esk yard while being disconnected is still intact but I believe it is sold off to a developer to build on.

Scandalous

howiya

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Pretty much, I think most of North Esk yard while being disconnected is still intact but I believe it is sold off to a developer to build on.

Listed for rent by CIE Property on property.ie so don't think it's been sold yet.

http://www.property.ie/commercial-property/North-Esk-Freight-Yard-Glanmire-Co-Cork/125738/

Itssoeasy

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Pretty much, I think most of North Esk yard while being disconnected is still intact but I believe it is sold off to a developer to build on.

I think the tracks were taken up recently. I'm sure I saw pictures of them being removed.

Jamie2k9

DFDS Doubles Rail Capacity on Service from Waterford to Ballina
PRESS RELEASE from DFDS RAIL SERVICE (Ireland)
DFDS is pleased to announce that it will double capacity on its weekly intermodal rail service from Waterford Port to Ballina commencing March 2016. As the pioneer of containerised rail freight in Ireland, DFDS now feels that the time is right to offer this increased intermodal service to its customers.
The new capacity will benefit customers in the west and north west of Ireland in particular, providing them with a cost effective alternative when compared with a road based shipping option. Coupled with this, the customer also reduces their carbon footprint.
The train timetable is optimised to meet the DFDS sailing schedules from Waterford Port to Rotterdam, which allows for onward delivery into Europe. Customers can now load in the west of Ireland on Tuesday morning and deliver in Holland on Friday. Rotterdam also provides access to DFDS sailings to Norway, and rail connections to Italy and Turkey, allowing for a rail-sea-rail connection from Ballina to Milan and Istanbul.
Importers into Ireland will also benefit from this extra capacity, with the Intermodal rail solution particularly suitable for bulk tank operators and also shippers of large volume to the west and north of Ireland.
This is an important addition to the DFDS services in Ireland, and we can now call ourselves the only truly Intermodal operator on the island. This announcement affirms our position as a premium logistics provider, and a company that listens to our customers and offers solutions.
We are also working with our partners in Irish Rail to further develop our rail capacity by offering longer trains, trials are currently in progress and we hope to be able to bring you further news around this development in the near future.

Unfortunately I have to use the link from West on Tract FB page as I cannot find an official one.

https://www.facebook.com/WestOnTrack/

Captain Chaos

I find it strange with the sudden turn around for DFDS. A few months ago there were struggling to fill half of a 12 unit CPW train and now they are adding an extra service.

The IWT liners are full almost all of the time both ways.

The more the better in the long run I suppose.

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I find it strange with the sudden turn around for DFDS. A few months ago there were struggling to fill half of a 12 unit CPW train and now they are adding an extra service.

The IWT liners are full almost all of the time both ways.

The more the better in the long run I suppose.

Totally agree as it was the increase in IWT which spelled the reduction in service and I even think it stopped for a month in the summer, not 100% sure on this though.

Perhaps DFDS have won some business back or there is an overall increase.

tabbey

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I think the tracks were taken up recently. I'm sure I saw pictures of them being removed.

It is a shame, it exposes the hypocrisy of politicians claiming to favour rail freight.

J Cheever Loophole

Apologies if this is wishful thinking on my part but;

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Importers into Ireland will also benefit from this extra capacity, with the Intermodal rail solution particularly suitable for bulk tank operators and also shippers of large volume to the west and north of Ireland.
This is an important addition to the DFDS services in Ireland, and we can now call ourselves the only truly Intermodal operator on the island.

the west and the north is not the same as the north west. Is that simply worded badly or is it throwing out the offer of freight journeys to the North?

Captain Chaos

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

the west and the north is not the same as the north west. Is that simply worded badly or is it throwing out the offer of freight journeys to the North?

There is no where to go north of the border for freight. The former freight yard at Adelade was used to store the 80 class DMUs before the were cut up on site. Then the site was transformed into the main DMU service depot for the NIR C3K units.

It's also the site where most of IEs Mk3s were hauled to for scrapping.

In other freight new IE have released a further statement saying they are to carry out more trails. At least one with a 27 flat wagons on an IWT liner and another with 18 timber wagons, up from the current 12 timber wagon limit.

The last test showed that a 201 can haul 1300 tons up a 1 in 85 and a 1 in 140 gradient without issue.

http://www.multimodal.org.uk/news/iarnrod-eireann-capacity-50-percent

Victor

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

the west and the north is not the same as the north west. Is that simply worded badly or is it throwing out the offer of freight journeys to the North?

No, they are saying they deliver to the north and west. The are not defining or redefining the north and west.

Jamie2k9

Bit random but was Fridays WoI-Wateford timber delayed or have IE finally decided almost 12 months lather to change schedule or day it operates in the interests of passengers?

metrovick001

What do u mean by changing the schedule in the interests if passengers Jamie?

Victor

Friday and Sunday and the busiest days for InterCity passengers. As much of the network is single track (with limited passing opportunities) and reversing manoeuvres are needed on Mayo-Waterford flows, if something goes wrong you would prefer it to not happen on a busy day.

Jamie2k9

metrovick001 wrote: »

What do u mean by changing the schedule in the interests if passengers Jamie?

Additional passenger services were added 12 months ago and it's made schedules tight (3-4 minutes) and it causes knock on affects and the freight service is playing a role and has usually cut the disruption in half the few days it has not operated.

Jamie2k9

215 set out to Limerick this morning from Waterford with 18 fully loaded timber wagons. (12 normally) on a trail as part of increasing freight train sizes.

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

215 set out of Limerick this morning from Waterford with 18 fully loaded timber wagons. (12 normally) on a trail as part of increasing freight train sizes.

Just wondering how many timber wagons are there? I thought around 30 maybe.

Clearly there must be more if they plan on having at least two 18 wagon sets in use.

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Just wondering how many timber wagons are there? I thought around 30 maybe.

Clearly there must be more if they plan on having at least two 18 wagon sets in use.

Not sure but they may only operate 1 set to Ballina as it operates more often than Westport (I think) and they will then reduce the number of runs to Ballina as a result.

kc56

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

215 set out to Limerick this morning from Waterford with 18 fully loaded timber wagons. (12 normally) on a trail as part of increasing freight train sizes.

Wonder if the loop in Kildare is long enough for 18 timber wagons ? or maybe will they be routed via Limerick J with run-arounds at Portarlington and LJ?

Captain Chaos

kc56 wrote: »

Wonder if the loop in Kildare is long enough for 18 timber wagons ? or maybe will they be routed via Limerick J with run-arounds at Portarlington and LJ?

It will be tight but I reckon they will just fit if the loco pushes back one loco length when it runs round.

Have a look from the 15:30 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voFGIdOfwew

18 CPWs will be a problem I reckon as they are longer then the timbers.

yachtsman

Any word on the date time or route of the box trial.

Captain Chaos

yachtsman wrote: »

Any word on the date time or route of the box trial.

I could be a while away yet. There was a gap of a few months between the tonnage trial with the HOBS and the timber run.

Jamie2k9

It will be Waterford-Limerick again Wednesday/Thursday run likely departing at the same times Limerick 10.00, Waterford 11.30. Expect it will take place soon enough.

Could however be a lot more difficult getting the liners in place and not impacting on the customer.

yachtsman

Am I missing something but wouldn't it make more sense to do the trial run on the actual route the trains will run on or perhaps a new traffic from Limerick to Waterford is envisaged.

Jamie2k9

yachtsman wrote: »

Am I missing something but wouldn't it make more sense to do the trial run on the actual route the trains will run on or perhaps a new traffic from Limerick to Waterford is envisaged.

The trail could not take place during the day on those routes as longer trains mean less loops to pass and current schedules don't allow it. Limerick is also where freight staff are based and deal with operations/maintenance so it makes sense to operate to/from Waterford.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It will be Waterford-Limerick again Wednesday/Thursday run likely departing at the same times Limerick 10.00, Waterford 11.30. Expect it will take place soon enough.

Could however be a lot more difficult getting the liners in place and not impacting on the customer.

Operating 15/6/16 and 16/6/16.

11.30 ex Waterford on the 15th.

11.00 ex Limerick on the 16th.

Down on the orders to be 27 Timber wagons, but obviously a mistake!

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Operating 15/6/16 and 16/6/16.

11.30 ex Waterford on the 15th.

11.00 ex Limerick on the 16th.

Down on the orders to be 27 Timber wagons, but obviously a mistake!

Any idea if a rake of 27 wagons will operate down to Waterford the day before or will they join up down there?

Captain Chaos

They are going to have to be loaded so I'd say they will take some spares from Limerick, load them at Belview and then the 18 that would be there anyway and then join them in Waterford yard. If there are enough containers to fully load a 27 wagon train for DFDS is another thing, IWT would be no problem.

Twinkster79

The container run won't be going ahead next week from what I've heard, IÉ were looking to use the taller hi-cube containers which aren't passed for the bridges on the South Tipp line.

Captain Chaos

Just an update on the 27 wagon trial I saw posted on another site.

"The train will operate from Dublin to Ballina, not Waterford to Limerick as originally planned. The reason for the change was the low height of bridges on the south tipp line making the use of 9ft 6in containers impossible.. As the port of Waterford only handles short sea services, the only cobtainers readily available were of the 9ft 6 variety..

The train will load in Dublin port on Monday afternoon to form the 20:40 departure ex North wall. The train will run as 27 wagons as far as Claremorris, where 9 wagons will be detached for the run onwards to Ballina"

Captain Chaos

215 on the timber trail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3s1NVH8xUI

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The train will run as 27 wagons as far as Claremorris, where 9 wagons will be detached for the run onwards to Ballina"

All 27 wagons will operate through to Ballina.

There will be no return trial train.

metrovick001

209 on Northwall-Ballina trial train passing through Sallins 27-June-16 by Metro Vick, on Flickr

Video here - https://youtu.be/km1GthZxEzY

Captain Chaos

209s second freight trail and all. And she's still facing the wrong way round after failing it's Enterprise trails in Belfast. Wonder when they'll turn her and actually get around to working an Enterprise set for the first time.

Jamie2k9

Is the primary aim of the route brake testing as that is not a fully loaded liner? There would need to be 15 more of those cube tanks on this particular service to make it full.

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Is the primary aim of the route brake testing as that is not a fully loaded liner? There would need to be 15 more of those cube tanks on this particular service to make it full.

It was "full" as every wagon was loaded. Two laden tanks cannot be loaded on a single flat as it would exceed the axle load limit. The only time you see tanks doubled up is on the empty returns to Dublin.

They did do some incline starts at set point on the route to see if a 201 has any issues lifting the liner in awkward parts of the network.