Updated look for the site (part2)

Adyx

Original beta ftw. Breadcrumbs at the top and bottom of the page and a back to top button without looking cluttered. Best of all the sticky header doesn't take up half the page.

wnolan1992

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Out of interest, has any more thought been put into having a notification in the tab header similar to Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, etc?

See 28064212's post at the bottom of this thread. (He created a script to use with Firefox (with Greasemonkey) or Chrome that does what you ask.)

Taco Corp

When you go to edit a post, the top part of the edit post box goes behind the banner? can this be fixed? I've attached a screen shot as I probably haven't explained that well.

RUCKING FETARD

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

When you go to edit a post, the top part of the edit post box goes behind the banner? can this be fixed? I've attached a screen shot as I probably haven't explained that well.

Doesn't do that with me.

Taco Corp

RUCKING FETARD wrote: »

Doesn't do that with me.

I doubled checked on IE9 and Chrome ( I use FF), happens on all three for me.

JohnK

It actually happens for me in IE9 too when editing in-thread but not after you click on the advanced option. From the looks of it the edit button jumps right to your post which puts the top of it under the nav bar rather than just opening the edit field where the post is on the screen.

Boards.ie: Tony

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

When you go to edit a post, the top part of the edit post box goes behind the banner? can this be fixed? I've attached a screen shot as I probably haven't explained that well.

that looks a bit weird alright.
Can you not scroll down to sho more of the edit area?

Taco Corp

Boards.ie: Tony wrote: »

that looks a bit weird alright.
Can you not scroll down to sho more of the edit area?

Yes, I can scroll down to see the whole edit area. But shouldn't it just all appear without having to do that?

Quazzie

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

Yes, I can scroll down to see the whole edit area. But shouldn't it just all appear without having to do that?

Its an extension of why scrolling with the space bar no longer works. The page loads correctly but the top bar loads over it covering the top of the screen This combined with a few other issues which they don't seem to want to change makes it a poor upgrade overall.

Star Lord

Adyx wrote: »

Original beta ftw. Breadcrumbs at the top and bottom of the page and a back to top button without looking cluttered. Best of all the sticky header doesn't take up half the page.

^ This. I love the new dark theme, but I've had to go back to the original beta, as the lack of the bottom breadcrumbs was a massive pain in the ass.

I really cannot for the life of me understand the reluctance to put in the bottom breadcrumbs! It seems like something that would take all of 15/20 minutes to do, and would have a massively positive effect.

The original beta seems too damn bright now. :cool:

LizT

Can I just ask what the rationale is behind the lack of bottom breadcrumbs?

They make boards more user friendly and talking them away is doing yourselves a disservice. I know it may seem like a petty gripe but a lot of posters on this thread have spoken out in support of keeping the bottom breadcrumbs.

Obviously it's not realistic to listen to every suggestion from members but I genuinely don't understand the reasons for removing the bottom breadcrumbs, especially when so many people have complained about it.

Boards.ie: Tony

LizT wrote: »

Can I just ask what the rationale is behind the lack of bottom breadcrumbs?

They make boards more user friendly and talking them away is doing yourselves a disservice. I know it may seem like a petty gripe but a lot of posters on this thread have spoken out in support of keeping the bottom breadcrumbs.

Obviously it's not realistic to listen to every suggestion from members but I genuinely don't understand the reasons for removing the bottom breadcrumbs, especially when so many people have complained about it.

Hi All,

Just wanted to say that the feedback is being listened to and wanted to jump in on this.
Basically we're taking steps to pull our current thread look out of Vbulletin and build our own thread view so that we have much more control over how it looks and feels.
There'll be a lot happening over the next few months. Some stuff will be taken away and added back in as we roll out the de-Vbulletin-ised thread view.
We're trying to keep the impact as minimal as possible and can't promise that some elements will ever make it back in again, but just wanted to say that the feedback is be listened to and we're taking everything into consideration during the design process.

We are going to add back in the prev / next thread and back to top button so you should see that appear over the coming days.

Thanks,
T.

Xavi6

^^^ No disrespect meant but, apart from the below, that tells us nothing. It's just fluff and a round about way of saying we're making the decisions so tough luck.

Boards.ie: Tony wrote: »

We are going to add back in the prev / next thread and back to top button so you should see that appear over the coming days.

If a back to top button can be added why can't breadcrumbs?

If it's because of performance issues, involving too much work etc then fair enough but otherwise it's clearly a sticking point regarding user experience.

John mac

Boards.ie: Tony wrote: »

Hi All,

We are going to add back in the prev / next thread and back to top button so you should see that appear over the coming days.
Thanks,
T.

Has anyone asked for prev/next thread link to be reinstated. ?

dont think so .

Thargor

Im thinking its turning into a bit of an 'ego' thing for them aswell, the way the Apple forums are full of people demanding basic features or tweaks but because the apple Gods said no at some point in the past their egos wont let them be seen backtracking

Boards.ie: Danny

Quazzie wrote: »

Its an extension of why scrolling with the space bar no longer works. The page loads correctly but the top bar loads over it covering the top of the screen This combined with a few other issues which they don't seem to want to change makes it a poor upgrade overall.

Browser programmers are the ones who are controlling what happens with the spacebar. For some mad reason the spacebar became acceptable for scrolling instead of the dedicated scrolling keys that have been on keyboards since the IBM PC keyboard came into play in 1985 - PageUp and PageDn. These same people have failed to compensate in their scrolling code for fixed position (sticky) elements.

You'll notice that we have implemented workaround for PageUp and PageDn with fixed headers. We shouldn't have had to do it, browsers should be smart enough to figure this out. We cannot do it for spacebar, because spacebar is a multi-purpose key. Mozilla recently attempted to implement a fix using heuristics for fixed position footers and headers, but had to roll back. Work is ongoing, but it's not our fault.

Facebook and TripAdvisor - two example sites that are much, much bigger than boards are also affected by the spacebar scrolling to far with their sticky headers. I wanted to clear up the absolute misconception that, to paraphrase, "Boards don't seem to want to fix this".

Danny

oscarBravo

John mac wrote: »

Has anyone asked for prev/next thread link to be reinstated. ?

I did, as did at least one other, possibly not on this thread. If you are in the habit of reading every thread in a given forum (which I am, for certain forums) they are a huge time saver.

Boards.ie: Paddy

John mac wrote: »

Has anyone asked for prev/next thread link to be reinstated. ?

dont think so .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056767840

We do actually listen to user feedback.

ibarelycare

It's really frustrating that a huge percentage of the posts from the last few pages are complaining about and questioning the removal of the breadcrumbs, yet we're not being given straight answers. There were only a few posts about the prev/next thread buttons, and dozens about the breadcrumbs. Why cant you put them back? Referring to the change from vBulletin is not an answer.

wnolan1992

OK, if the bottom breadcrumbs were part of vBulletin, and ye want to phase out vBulletin, then fine.

But what's stopping ye copying the code used in the sticky header breadcrumb (which I'm assuming are there to stay), and just utilising it at the bottom of the page?

Removing stuff to declutter or whatever is all well and good, but when the resulting solution requires more clicks (you'd have to click on "Back to top", then click on the forum as opposed to just clicking the forum name) then it seems counter-intuitive to the user experience.

Boards.ie: Danny

wnolan1992 wrote: »

OK, if the bottom breadcrumbs were part of vBulletin, and ye want to phase out vBulletin, then fine.

But what's stopping ye copying the code used in the sticky header breadcrumb (which I'm assuming are there to stay), and just utilising it at the bottom of the page?

Removing stuff to declutter or whatever is all well and good, but when the resulting solution requires more clicks (you'd have to click on "Back to top", then click on the forum as opposed to just clicking the forum name) then it seems counter-intuitive to the user experience.

Is user experience about minimising clicks? Genuine question

Quazzie

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

Is user experience about minimising clicks? Genuine question

Are you deliberately ignoring ibarelycare's post?

wnolan1992

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

Is user experience about minimising clicks? Genuine question

Well, obviously when I was breaking it down into clicks in my previous post I was being a tad simplistic.

No, a low number of clicks doesn't necessarily make a pleasant user experience, but it's how intuitive each click you have to make is that makes a site nice to use, and that seems to be the point that article you linked is making too (only skim read it).

To me, it just feels counter-intuitive to have to click to go back to the top, then click out to the forum. Or when my cursor is near the bottom of the screen after Quick Replying, it just feels awkward to have to move up to the Sticky Header to click out.

I know that smacks of laziness, and I guess it largely is.

I just don't see why it's seen as an improvement to get rid of the bottom breadcrumbs and add in a back to top button. Wouldn't it be virtually the same thing to just add in a "Back to Forum" button? Essentially the site would look the exact same but would be far more user friendly IMO.

LizT

Boards.ie: Tony wrote: »

Hi All,

Just wanted to say that the feedback is being listened to and wanted to jump in on this.
Basically we're taking steps to pull our current thread look out of Vbulletin and build our own thread view so that we have much more control over how it looks and feels.
There'll be a lot happening over the next few months. Some stuff will be taken away and added back in as we roll out the de-Vbulletin-ised thread view.
We're trying to keep the impact as minimal as possible and can't promise that some elements will ever make it back in again, but just wanted to say that the feedback is be listened to and we're taking everything into consideration during the design process.

We are going to add back in the prev / next thread and back to top button so you should see that appear over the coming days.

Thanks,
T.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just thick but I've reread this post a few times now and it doesn't actually address what I brought up. Are the bottom breadcrumbs returning or are they being completely replaced with a back to the top button? If the latter is the case, what's the rationale for that?

Boards.ie: Danny

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Well, obviously when I was breaking it down into clicks in my previous post I was being a tad simplistic.

No, a low number of clicks doesn't necessarily make a pleasant user experience, but it's how intuitive each click you have to make is that makes a site nice to use, and that seems to be the point that article you linked is making too (only skim read it).

To me, it just feels counter-intuitive to have to click to go back to the top, then click out to the forum. Or when my cursor is near the bottom of the screen after Quick Replying, it just feels awkward to have to move up to the Sticky Header to click out.

I know that smacks of laziness, and I guess it largely is.

I just don't see why it's seen as an improvement to get rid of the bottom breadcrumbs and add in a back to top button. Wouldn't it be virtually the same thing to just add in a "Back to Forum" button? Essentially the site would look the exact same but would be far more user friendly IMO.

Cheers for engaging and even reading that article

The "number of clicks" line has been trotted out a few times since the design changes rolled out. New Posts and User CP are two links now hidden that were fully accessible beforehand. With the new grouping of functionality though the changes make sense and produce an intuitive interface and user experience. So when you broke it down into clicks again I felt the article held some weight.

You are correct in that the article is essentially saying forget about the number of clicks if adhering to a minimum-clicks-possible ethos sacrifices intuitive design or user experience.

With the new skin and sticky header turned on there comes a point where there are two crumbs on the screen. It's not intuitive, at least to me. Clearly it is to you and some others - 33 of you in fact who have thanked posts and 15 of you who have posted on this thread expressing displeasure at the removal in some form. What's intuitive for one person isn't for the other, and therein lies a big problem with almost every change we have made and will ever make.

Danny

John mac

oscarBravo wrote: »

possibly not on this thread. .

it was this thread I was talking about, I did search the thread prior to posting.


I can see the point of loosing breadcrumbs at the bottom if you have the header lock on ,
I have it switched off as it uses up too much room on the laptop,
it looks ok on the pc /. so was scrolling back through 30 posts to get to the top of the page again.


I never knew about scrolling with the space bar , or using the home key :eek:
not been around long enough.:pac:

Thargor

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

With the new skin and sticky header turned on there comes a point where there are two crumbs on the screen. It's not intuitive, at least to me.

It is intuitive, people who use the bottom ones will intuitively use the bottom ones and people who use the top ones will intuitively use them, its not like they're going to be frozen with indecision is it? Using the breadcrumbs when you get to the bottom is so intuitive that 99% of the chatrooms on the internet use them and days later after being removed Im still moving the mouse to look for them and I bet loads of others are the same.

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

Clearly it is to you and some others - 33 of you in fact who have thanked posts and 15 of you who have posted on this thread expressing displeasure at the removal in some form.

Its a small number that bothered coming to the Feedback Board to express displeasure because its a small percentage of Boards users that even know the Feedback Board exists, let a thread run in After Hours without moving it if you want to see that number rise into the hundreds.

Boards.ie: Paddy

Thargor wrote: »

Im thinking its turning into a bit of an 'ego' thing for them aswell, the way the Apple forums are full of people demanding basic features or tweaks but because the apple Gods said no at some point in the past their egos wont let them be seen backtracking

I assure you it's not an ego thing. We have reverted previous changes based on user feedback and I'm sure we will do it again in the future.

ibarelycare wrote: »

It's really frustrating that a huge percentage of the posts from the last few pages are complaining about and questioning the removal of the breadcrumbs, yet we're not being given straight answers. There were only a few posts about the prev/next thread buttons, and dozens about the breadcrumbs. Why cant you put them back? Referring to the change from vBulletin is not an answer.

I'm sorry that you're finding this frustrating, that isn't our goal. I think we were all pretty surprised by the strength of the negative reaction from some users to this change.

To try to give you the straightest answer I can: From a technical perspective there is no reason that the bottom breadcrumbs can't be put back. However, they won't be put back the way they were previously for design reasons. They took up too much room on the page and the old footer breadcrumb layout won't work with the new layout of the thread footer. We're also not entirely sure that they should go back as there is a strong argument that say's we're just duplicating functionality unnecessarily. (which is why we removed them in the first place)

So, at this point we haven't made a final decision on what will ultimately happen with them which is probably why our answers seem a bit vague.

Boards.ie: Paddy

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I just don't see why it's seen as an improvement to get rid of the bottom breadcrumbs and add in a back to top button. Wouldn't it be virtually the same thing to just add in a "Back to Forum" button? Essentially the site would look the exact same but would be far more user friendly IMO.

Actually you may have a very good idea here...

Is that what you mostly used the bottom breadcrumb for, just to go back up to the thread listing?

.BrianJM

I've been following this thread with interest in general and one aspect in particular and will admit to having missed some posts. Apologies if what I'm about to see has been mentioned.

Monitors these days tend to be wide-screen and for comfort in reading I never use full width. What about taking breadcrumbs and other options and putting them on a side panel and giving the user some choice about what he/she wants to use. Visually, more space top & bottom for post area.
If this would mean throwing a lot of work in the bin, then sorry for mentioning it.
On the other hand, you could be nasty and incorporate something like that for subscribers.
ThankYou.