RaboDirectPro12 2012/13 General Discussion (with transfers/season preview)

Podge_irl

Zebre

.ak wrote: »

Am I reading it wrong? 471 vs 399?

Yeah, 471 of Leinster's total points weren't scored by Sexton, 399 of Leinster's total points weren't scored by Maddser. But its not the points scored while they're on the pitch, just overall for the season.

(as in you add Madigan's points to 399 and Sexton's points to 471 and they both reach 585)

Buer

.ak wrote: »

The fact that sexton has the least game time but the highest stat for team scores just goes to show how good he is. He really is the master at pulling the strings. His assists must be through the roof at this stage.

What impressed me is that he has been scoring tries this season but it seems to have gone generally unnoticed. Between Ireland and Leinster, Sexton actually has a fractionally better tries scored to minutes played ratio this season than Ian Madigan which is no mean feat.

1214 minutes and 6 tries
1644 minutes and 8 tries

Ardillaun

Drop-goals aren't too plentiful on that chart. Are players getting better at them, staying the same or getting worse? I've seen some dog-awful attempts over the past few years. Are there any percentage stats? I suspect ROG would be among the better Irish exponents.

Hagz

Scarlets

Hopefully it's because teams are starting to recognise that going for a drop goal when you have an advantage is pretty much pointless.

Ardillaun

Hagz wrote: »

Hopefully it's because teams are starting to recognise that going for a drop goal when you have an advantage is pretty much pointless.

They have won some close games over the years (e.g. RWC95, 03). In an era of such tight defences, I would have expected more drop-goals, not less.

.ak

Zebre

Ardillaun wrote: »

They have won some close games over the years (e.g. RWC95, 03). In an era of such tight defences, I would have expected more drop-goals, not less.

You've probably answered your own question there. The defences are getting better and more well drilled, thus preventing clean strikes.

P_1

Fewer tight matches (being less then 2 points between the sides right at the death) might explain it too

[Jackass]

Zebre

Just looking at the stats on the pro12 site, Tim Visser has been top try scorer in the league every season since joining Edinburgh - i.e for the last 4 seasons in a row - with 10, 14, 13 & 11 this season..pretty amazing strike rate.

Stats page http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/statzone/index.php?includeref=2350&season=2012#2350

Bogota

Whatever about his deficiencies the boy can score tries. I would have had him on the Lions tour. I know thats not popular but its how I feel.

jamiedav2011

Bogota wrote: »

Whatever about his deficiencies the boy can score tries. I would have had him on the Lions tour. I know thats not popular but its how I feel.

What about Tom Varndell in that case?

Visser has done sweet fa at a higher level to deserve a place on the tour.
Maitland is a far more complete player, as are all of the other wings ahead of him.
Would have Wade, Gilroy, Zebo, Brown, Walker (though injured) all ahead of him too.

Bogota

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

What about Tom Varndell in that case?

Visser has done sweet fa at a higher level to deserve a place on the tour.
Maitland is a far more complete player, as are all of the other wings ahead of him.
Would have Wade, Gilroy, Zebo, Brown, Walker (though injured) all ahead of him too.

He's done a lot more than Varndell, Gilroy, Zebo, Brown, Walker.

Although I'd have Wade ahead of him.

trouttrout

Bogota wrote: »

He's done a lot more than Varndell, Gilroy, Zebo, Brown, Walker.

Although I'd have Wade ahead of him.

Like?

its_phil

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

What about Tom Varndell in that case?

Visser has done sweet fa at a higher level to deserve a place on the tour.
Maitland is a far more complete player, as are all of the other wings ahead of him.
Would have Wade, Gilroy, Zebo, Brown, Walker (though injured) all ahead of him too.

6 tries in 10 test appearances is hardly SFA?

jamiedav2011

its_phil wrote: »

6 tries in 10 test appearances is hardly SFA?

Two of those coming against Fiji, but in any case, I'm not getting into the
winger scores tries = winger is great argument. Visser has serious flaws to his game.

its_phil

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Two of those coming against Fiji, but in any case, I'm not getting into the
winger scores tries = winger is great argument. Visser has serious flaws to his game.

And two against New Zealand. Even if you take those two tries away that is 4 in 9.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with loads of tries = great winger. That is fair enough if you think he has serious flaws, which he does in defence, but to say he has done SFA is a massive overstatement. I don't think it would be unfair to call him a great finisher either.

jamiedav2011

its_phil wrote: »

And two against New Zealand. Even if you take those two tries away that is 4 in 9.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with loads of tries = great winger. That is fair enough if you think he has serious flaws, which he does in defence, but to say he has done SFA is a massive overstatement. I don't think it would be unfair to call him a great finisher either.

You remember the nature of those tries against NZ yes?!

Apart from finishing run ins, he's actually been quite poor for Scotland, particularly in the 6N.

Like the Earls v. Fitz argument, many see better try scoring record as a prime indication of a better winger.
Visser should be nowhere near a Lions team, as above, there are plenty better wingers than him.

Tom Varndell has scored 3 in 4 according to his stats. He's definitely a better winger than Visser then?

irishbucsfan

trouttrout wrote: »

Like?

Well if he'd have Wade and Visser on the tour I think there's only one thing he expects a winger to do.

Thankfully it isn't the case with the last few people who have selected Lions squads.

its_phil

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

You remember the nature of those tries against NZ yes?!

Apart from finishing run ins, he's actually been quite poor for Scotland, particularly in the 6N.

Like the Earls v. Fitz argument, many see better try scoring record as a prime indication of a better winger.
Visser should be nowhere near a Lions team, as above, there are plenty better wingers than him.

Tom Varndell has scored 3 in 4 according to his stats. He's definitely a better winger than Visser then?

Have you read my posts at all??

I'm not comparing quality of players to eachother! I just said criticising Visser for doing SFA is an unfair criticisim

jamiedav2011

its_phil wrote: »

Have you read my posts at all??

I'm not comparing quality of players to eachother! I just said criticising Visser for doing SFA is an unfair criticisim

And I've made my point that running in tries isn't necessarily a sign of a player playing well, or offering much to a team.

bilston

Zebre

Gilroy has 5 tries in 6 games (if we're including Fiji) and 7 in 7 if we include the Baa Baas and none of them were run ins so I wouldn't say Visser has done more than him.

CatFromHue

bilston wrote: »

Gilroy has 5 tries in 6 games (if we're including Fiji) and 7 in 7 if we include the Baa Baas and none of them were run ins so I wouldn't say Visser has done more than him.

This is Vissers 4th season as top scorer in the Rabo, that's got to count for something.

bilston

Zebre

CatFromHue wrote: »

This is Vissers 4th season as top scorer in the Rabo, that's got to count for something.

Yeah of course but I thought we were just talking about tries at international level.

Visser is a decent shout anyway but the four picked ahead of him deserved to be and I'd take Zebo, Trimble and Ashton over him as well. Despite my earlier post I would take Visser over Gilroy.

CatFromHue

Ulster and Leinster are 1, 2 in the final league standings and also 1, 2 in the Fair Play League standings too

CIARAN_BOYLE

Zebre

CatFromHue wrote: »

Ulster and Leinster are 1, 2 in the final league standings and also 1, 2 in the Fair Play League standings too

cheating doesn't pay

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

cheating doesn't pay

its very true.

Rugby is a game where indiscipline costs points directly.

Points win games.

irishbucsfan

Getting CAUGHT cheating doesn't pay.

.ak

Zebre

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Getting CAUGHT cheating doesn't pay.

This, +1000. Cheating is part of rugby. It's one of the aspects of the game I love. Not in a cynical sense, but when a sly block or a bit of dark arts is applied right and goes unnoticed it's a beautiful thing.

trouttrout

.ak wrote: »

This, +1000. Cheating is part of rugby. It's one of the aspects of the game I love. Not in a cynical sense, but when a sly block or a bit of dark arts is applied right and goes unnoticed it's a beautiful thing.

Unless it's Downey on BOD!

.ak

Zebre

trouttrout wrote: »

Unless it's Downey on BOD!

Indeed! BURN THE HERETIC!

In fairness, I said at the time it was a good bit of work from Downey. What I was annoyed by is the fact Owens saw it, and then you hear him on the mic saying play on. So in short, yay for Downey, but boo-urns for Owens.

Tox56

trouttrout wrote: »

Unless it's Downey on BOD!

It wasn't sly or particularly subtle, Heaslip in the H Cup final 2011was a classic backrowers block that went unnoticed, Downey's block was obvious and seen, Owens just waved play on for some reason

Although I appreciate you likely weren't being completely serious.... There is a difference

trouttrout

Yes I was being rather tongue in cheek there!

thomond2006

Zebre

Glasgow's Graeme Morrison forced to retire because of injury.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_8723965,00.html

errlloyd

Zebre

Ansbro, Morrison, Rory lamont, Thom Evans. Scotland are losing a lot of backs to career ending injury.

Ardillaun

.ak wrote: »

You've probably answered your own question there. The defences are getting better and more well drilled, thus preventing clean strikes.

Still, we've seen some nice ones in the last few weeks e.g. from JW. And the genuine threat of a DG is one more way to bend a defence out of shape.

OldRio

Zebre

Cardiff are to install an artificial pitch at the Arms Park ahead of next season.
First Sarries and now Cardiff.
Will more teams follow?

bilston

Zebre

OldRio wrote: »

Cardiff are to install an artificial pitch at the Arms Park ahead of next season.
First Sarries and now Cardiff.
Will more teams follow?

Isn't the pitch out the back of Lansdowne 3G? I watched a game between I think Lansdowne and Clontarf on it on RTE a couple of months ago and it was an excellent game. Maybe it's the way forward.

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

Isn't the pitch out the back of Lansdowne 3G? I watched a game between I think Lansdowne and Clontarf on it on RTE a couple of months ago and it was an excellent game. Maybe it's the way forward.

It's a pretty poor pitch tbh, I hated playing on it.

I'm told the Sarries pitch is miles better.

Taco Corp

bilston wrote: »

Isn't the pitch out the back of Lansdowne 3G? I watched a game between I think Lansdowne and Clontarf on it on RTE a couple of months ago and it was an excellent game. Maybe it's the way forward.

I saw the same one. couple of ankle injuries during the match and the commentators were convinced that it was due to the pitch. anyone know if there has been any sort of trend in terms of injuries at Saracens that could be related to the pitch?

razorblunt

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

I saw the same one. couple of ankle injuries during the match and the commentators were convinced that it was due to the pitch. anyone know if there has been any sort of trend in terms of injuries at Saracens that could be related to the pitch?

Different sport I know, but the Celtic defender John Kennedy (he who as at the other end of a horrific knee high tackle) was prevented from playing on the artificial pitch in Moscow by the medical staff.

I wonder next season in the English premiership will we see teams dropping players with niggling ankle or knee concerns due for visits to sarries?

Any idea when the fixture list for next season is released?

durkadurka

Deleted User wrote: »

Any idea when the fixture list for next season is released?

Usually early July

durkadurka

Was 11th July last yr.