Vincent Browne last night

Tim Robbins

Last night on Vincent Brown he had a woman on who was receiving rent supplment of around 700 euro even though she had a job. She was supplementing this herself by 250 and living somewhere that was about 950 a month in Bray. She was married and had two kids.

She was crying and giving out saying the government was cutting her rent supplement by 200 euro and she would not be able to afford her house and that she could be homeless - doubt it but anyway... Browne felt very sorry for her and the Labour politician on the panel just kept skirting questions.

She said the council offered two permanent houses but she deemed them non suitable.

How sorry do you feel for her? I feel some sympathy for her but I know many couples / families where both are working and paying mortgages in houses / apartments that are about 700 - 800 per month to rent. Why is that not good enough for her?

I believe in the welfare state but it is very easy for people to have a massive expectation from it as if it is an endless supply of money that requires no effort to generate.

I really like Vincent Browne, but sometimes I wonder is he too much in the RTE generation - middle class people in 50's, 60's? He lived in Dalkey for a while and he'd still live there if his business ventures were not a failure. He thinks everyone who is not on welfare lives in a 4 bed semi in dundrum or if they get a bit of luck a 5 bed detached in Dalkey.

He likes to harp on about high taxes and giving people loads of money but he has not ever lived on a road where people who do nothing live in a better house than him and do absolutely no work.

What you think?

NakedNNettles

I wish the government would stop propping up the Irish rental market then we might all be able to afford to live and rent in Ireland.

Why do some get a supplement while the rest have to pay every penny?

Where's the fairness in that?

Tim Robbins

NakedNNettles wrote: »

I wish the government would stop propping up the Irish rental market then we might all be able to afford to live and rent in Ireland.

Why do some get a supplement while the rest have to pay every penny?

Where's the fairness in that?

Exactly. The government just do not seem to get it.

Landlords are now of the attitude - I don't care as long as the money comes in. And apartment blocks with 75% renting and no-one cares about the place are all over Dublin. Stuck in the middle of these are couples where both are working to pay the mortgage.

I would prefer to see a system where private landlords were few and far between. Property Companies - rented out. Give people proper leases, with proper rights (voting rights on residents committees) and had 24 hour support staff. Property Companies could do this because they own 1000's of apartments and would have brand and reputation to keep.

If anyone is on any supplement rental or social welfare, there needs to be a road map to get them off it. Unless they are disability. Genuine disability.

Sleepy

It sounds as if she should have her rent allowance removed from her entirely as she's in violation of it's terms:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie wrote:

You won’t qualify for Rent Supplement if you:

• Are in full-time employment (30 hours or more a week). However, if you are assessed as in need of housing under the Rental Accommodation Scheme and have been out of full-time employment for 12 months or more you may be entitled to the Supplement - see ‘Employment and Rent Supplement’ below
• Have refused a second offer of local authority accommodation in an 12-month period. In this case, you cannot claim Rent Supplement for 12 months.
• Are leaving local authority housing without reasonable cause.
• Have been excluded from social housing by a local authority for reasons of good estate management or anti-social behaviour.
• Are attending full-time education. However, if you are getting a Back to Education Allowance or participating in the Back to Education Programme you may be entitled to the Supplement.

Tim Robbins

Sleepy wrote: »

It sounds as if she should have her rent allowance removed from her entirely as she's in violation of it's terms:

She refused two houses over ten year period. Because, they were not suitable for he. Why not? If they really were not suitable why were they even offered? Surely that's a waste of time / money.

n97 mini

Yes, she said she was on the housing list for over 11 years. Presumably she has been getting rent supplement in that time.

I got the impression that because she was paying some tax that she felt she is a net contributor to the economy.

Tim Robbins

n97 mini wrote: »

Yes, she said she was on the housing list for over 11 years. Presumably she has been getting rent supplement in that time.

I got the impression that because she was paying some tax that she felt she is a net contributor to the economy.

I didn't get that.

How can you be paying tax and getting rent supplement?

antoobrien

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I didn't get that.

How can you be paying tax and getting rent supplement?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

You will not qualify for Rent Supplement if you are in full-time employment (30 hours or more a week). (In the case of couples, if one of a couple is in full time employment, both are excluded from claiming Rent Supplement).

Presumably she's not working "full time" (as if 30 hours constitutes a full working week :rolleyes:).

stargazer 68

Find it hard to believe she gets that much. Im a lone parent and work part time. Live in Dublin and get 300 rent allowance - the rest I have to pay myself.

Dannyboy83

Tim Robbins wrote: »

He thinks everyone who is not on welfare lives in a 4 bed semi in dundrum or if they get a bit of luck a 5 bed detached in Dalkey.

Good post and accurate summation above imo.

The same can be said of his attitude toward travellers - he appears to have some very sheltered views on certain matters which is slightly disconcerting for a man of his age & career.

Apparently he has little in the way of real world experience and consequently it's quite rare that he takes a balanced approach to issues in general. That's no sin in journalism, but there are several topics in particular where it badly betrays him - I don't watch his programs/read his articles anymore since I feel his views are tainted by his lack of realism/cotton wool existence.

Tim Robbins

Dovies wrote: »

Find it hard to believe she gets that much. Im a lone parent and work part time. Live in Dublin and get 300 rent allowance - the rest I have to pay myself.

300 per month or week? sorry just want to understand where your coming from.

And sorry because this confused me...

If you are working you have to pay for childcare - yeah? It's expensive so that must mean you have to earn a reasonable amount at least 35K before considering going out to work.

But if you can work and still earn rent supplement - that means you can earn up to 35K and get rent supplement?

Whereas if you bought before the child - its just tough luck yeah.

There's no equivalent mortgage supplement is there?

Does this mean people in receipt of rent supplement should not want to ever buy a house?

Tim Robbins

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Good post and accurate summation above imo.

The same can be said of his attitude toward travellers - he appears to have some very sheltered views on certain matters which is slightly disconcerting for a man of his age & career.

Apparently he has little in the way of real world experience and consequently it's quite rare that he takes a balanced approach to issues in general. That's no sin in journalism, but there are several topics in particular where it badly betrays him - I don't watch his programs/read his articles anymore since I feel his views are tainted by his lack of realism/cotton wool existence.

I wonder how many times travellers have called around to his house and annoyed him.

I am surprised that not many people have challenged him on these things. Things that seem common sense to many people who post here.

Tim Robbins

Actually, it would be great if we could invite him on to boards for a debate. I think he'd be up for it.

Kinski

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The government just do not seem to get it.

Landlords are now of the attitude - I don't care as long as the money comes in. And apartment blocks with 75% renting and no-one cares about the place are all over Dublin. Stuck in the middle of these are couples where both are working to pay the mortgage.

Oh, I think they seem to get something: "landlord" is an overrepresented "profession" in Dail Eireann, with somewhere between roughly 35-40 TDs listing rental properties in Ireland among their interests. I'm sure they'd be fully behind reforms favouring tenants.:pac:

Tim Robbins

Kinski wrote: »

Oh, I think they seem to get something: "landlord" is an overrepresented "profession" in Dail Eireann, with somewhere between roughly 35-40 TDs listing rental properties in Ireland among their interests. I'm sure they'd be fully behind reforms favouring tenants.:pac:

The non principle private residence property tax was a good idea, as was PTRB.

Hopefully, it will start tidying up.

stargazer 68

Tim Robbins wrote: »

300 per month or week? sorry just want to understand where your coming from.

QUOTE]

RA is paid monthly so 300 a month.

Tora Bora

Used to watch Brown, but sick and tired of the "independent", panel.

His program is little more than a soap box for the united left alliance, Mick Wallace, Joe Higggins, Boyd Barrett, et al:(

Same Brown, gave a soft ride to Wallace on his tax issues.

Brown has no cred, at this stage, IMHO!

Sponge Bob

He deliberately does one programme a week where he has 'social partner' types. I usually switch off if I spot certain panellists are on but some of them can be excellent ...like the one on symphysiotomy last month.

So my policy with Vincent is to see who is on first and then make my mind up. The worst panellist he gets nowadays is a FG waffler from Dublin called Paschal who shows up when nobody else from FG will do Vincent Browne. A completely insufferable eejit to my mind.

Tim Robbins

Sponge Bob wrote: »

He deliberately does one programme a week where he has 'social partner' types. I usually switch off if I spot certain panellists are on but some of them can be excellent ...like the one on symphysiotomy last month.

So my policy with Vincent is to see who is on first and then make my mind up. The worst panellist he gets nowadays is a FG waffler from Dublin called Paschal who shows up when nobody else from FG will do Vincent Browne. A completely insufferable eejit to my mind.

I think he is better than the entire RTE current affairs department who seem to live in their own cosy little world.

The only criticism of Browne I'd have is as I said that anyone who is not in poverty is living in a 4 bed semi in Dundrum and gets the Luas to the IFSC where they collect 80K a year.

He also thinks that anyone who is receiving any sort of welfare is terribly unfortunate and can do absolutely nothing about it.

His background explains this. He went to a private school and lived in Dalkey for a long period of time. He has probably met a disproportionate amount of very wealthy people who do not realise their wealth. But, the irony is that his own views are distorted as well.

I am surprised he has never had anyone on his panel who can see thru this crap when plenty on this site can.

n97 mini

Dovies wrote: »

RA is paid monthly so 300 a month.

Single parent in Dublin gets €775+

How come your's in only €300?

K-9

n97 mini wrote: »

Single parent in Dublin gets €775+

How come your's in only €300?

I was under the impression it was difficult to get once you were working. €775 a month is mad.

Dob74

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Last night on Vincent Brown he had a woman on who was receiving rent supplment of around 700 euro even though she had a job. She was supplementing this herself by 250 and living somewhere that was about 950 a month in Bray. She was married and had two kids.

She was crying and giving out saying the government was cutting her rent supplement by 200 euro and she would not be able to afford her house and that she could be homeless - doubt it but anyway... Browne felt very sorry for her and the Labour politician on the panel just kept skirting questions.

She said the council offered two permanent houses but she deemed them non suitable.

How sorry do you feel for her? I feel some sympathy for her but I know many couples / families where both are working and paying mortgages in houses / apartments that are about 700 - 800 per month to rent. Why is that not good enough for her?

I believe in the welfare state but it is very easy for people to have a massive expectation from it as if it is an endless supply of money that requires no effort to generate.

I really like Vincent Browne, but sometimes I wonder is he too much in the RTE generation - middle class people in 50's, 60's? He lived in Dalkey for a while and he'd still live there if his business ventures were not a failure. He thinks everyone who is not on welfare lives in a 4 bed semi in dundrum or if they get a bit of luck a 5 bed detached in Dalkey.

He likes to harp on about high taxes and giving people loads of money but he has not ever lived on a road where people who do nothing live in a better house than him and do absolutely no work.

What you think?

The sad thing is that the government is keeping rents high by not letting the market correct itself.
Nama is benefiting from the 700 euro supplement, as well as the landlord ,as well as the woman.
The taxpayer, the non welfare renters, and first time buyers are being hurt by supplement.

Unfortunately the government will continue to back the business community, the landlords and poorer renter.
The young workers will continue to pay.

Dave!

Sponge Bob wrote: »

He deliberately does one programme a week where he has 'social partner' types. I usually switch off if I spot certain panellists are on but some of them can be excellent ...like the one on symphysiotomy last month.

So my policy with Vincent is to see who is on first and then make my mind up. The worst panellist he gets nowadays is a FG waffler from Dublin called Paschal who shows up when nobody else from FG will do Vincent Browne. A completely insufferable eejit to my mind.

Ha, Paschal Donohoe, it's excruciating listening to that fella, and he's always on VB

COYW

Dob74 wrote: »

The sad thing is that the government is keeping rents high by not letting the market correct itself. The young workers will continue to pay.

I totally agree. The cost of renting is still as high as it was at the peak of the housing market. Cutting rent allowance is the only way to cause a much needed collapse in the rental market.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

She refused two houses over ten year period. Because, they were not suitable for he. Why not? If they really were not suitable why were they even offered? Surely that's a waste of time / money.

I was thinking about the exact same thing. I would love to see the properties she turned down and find out her reason. RBB seemed to be familiar with this case. He noted that those on the housing list from the south side were getting offered houses on the north side of the city. He felt that this was not acceptable.

If the lady turned down those 2 properties on such grounds, she should be sent right back to the end of the waiting list and her RA stopped. We all can't live in the area we want, we live/buy where we can afford to.

Cuddlesworth

COYW wrote: »

I totally agree. The cost of renting is still as high as it was at the peak of the housing market. Cutting rent allowance is the only way to cause a much needed collapse in the rental market.

Rents are nowhere near as high as they were and RA has been reduced, which has lead to a noticeable difference in the market. I would like to see it eventually removed making things more affordable for those of us that do rent.

Tipp Man

Tora Bora wrote: »

Used to watch Brown, but sick and tired of the "independent", panel.

His program is little more than a soap box for the united left alliance, Mick Wallace, Joe Higggins, Boyd Barrett, et al:(

Same Brown, gave a soft ride to Wallace on his tax issues.

Brown has no cred, at this stage, IMHO!

He's an absolute joke

And the most biased presenter going - all this crap about how he always tries to have equal men/women right/left is pure crap.

He gets 4 hours a week to spout his own socialist crap without challenge or question. He is way tougher on certain people than others

and his compelete dodging of the Wallace affair just proves this point - he has zero credability

zootroid

n97 mini wrote: »

Single parent in Dublin gets €775+

How come your's in only €300?

Those figures are crazy. I wonder how it compares to the UK? Do they have a rent supplement scheme?

Predalien

zootroid wrote: »

Those figures are crazy. I wonder how it compares to the UK? Do they have a rent supplement scheme?

Housing benefit, and according to the UK tabloids you can get far more than that in the UK.

K-9

zootroid wrote: »

Those figures are crazy. I wonder how it compares to the UK? Do they have a rent supplement scheme?

They do and it is available to people who work. There was a recent controversy about moving rent supplement beneficiaries to cheaper locations and a big concern was employed workers.

n97 mini

K-9 wrote: »

I was under the impression it was difficult to get once you were working. €775 a month is mad.

I think it's easy enough to get: you either qualify or you don't.

K-9

n97 mini wrote: »

I think it's easy enough to get: you either qualify or you don't.

I think the problem is it is up to to the individual Welfare officers discretion., so it very much isn't that you qualify or you don't.

n97 mini

K-9 wrote: »

I think the problem is it is up to to the individual Welfare officers discretion.

I don't think it is in the vast majority of cases. E.g. someone on the dole not living at home, single parent working less than 30 hours per week, long term unemployed etc.

Duiske

Sleepy wrote: »

It sounds as if she should have her rent allowance removed from her entirely as she's in violation of it's terms:

She said in the program that she had been on the housing list for a number of years, and had turned down 2 offers in that time. She did not say she had turned down 2 offers "in the previous 12 months".

shure she's entitled to it.

Qualitymark

How many TDs and ministers are landlords?

sallywin

Sponge Bob wrote: »

He deliberately does one programme a week where he has 'social partner' types. I usually switch off if I spot certain panellists are on but some of them can be excellent ...like the one on symphysiotomy last month.

So my policy with Vincent is to see who is on first and then make my mind up. The worst panellist he gets nowadays is a FG waffler from Dublin called Paschal who shows up when nobody else from FG will do Vincent Browne. A completely insufferable eejit to my mind.

Re. Paschal, insufferable is the word for sure. Re. Browne, best thing on tv, nobody is perfect, he comes quite close.

Tim Robbins

sallywin wrote: »

Re. Paschal, insufferable is the word for sure. Re. Browne, best thing on tv, nobody is perfect, he comes quite close.

I'd agree with that. He is better read and better at critical thinking than the entire RTE current affairs staff.

His demolition of Martin McGuinness was priceless.

Compared to Miriam's 'How do you leave with your God? (PS come on my Saturday night show and I'll flirt with you)'

daltonmd

n97 mini wrote: »

Single parent in Dublin gets €775+

How come your's in only €300?

Because she's working, the 30 pw is a "minimum" payment for SW recipients. If you work then you pay more.

poeticseraphim

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Good post and accurate summation above imo.

The same can be said of his attitude toward travellers - he appears to have some very sheltered views on certain matters which is slightly disconcerting for a man of his age & career.

Apparently he has little in the way of real world experience and consequently it's quite rare that he takes a balanced approach to issues in general. That's no sin in journalism, but there are several topics in particular where it badly betrays him - I don't watch his programs/read his articles anymore since I feel his views are tainted by his lack of realism/cotton wool existence.

Actually VB is not as he portrays himself....he is as socialist as Bertie Ahern .... trust me ..he knows what is a ratings grabber right now.... he himself lived quite well ...and a little beyond his means...he had a house in Dalkey but got into serious debt and had to sell it....he may preach socialism but has never lived it.

He is typical of the company of Wallace in that it's rhetoric.

As regards his analysis well years ago some of his journalism and exposing of certain led to court cases and enquries ...he actually can put some seriously well structed arguements and examinations together..but it's rarer these days..he has talent but his supporters over rate him

The panel is full of people who contribute to or work for his magazine. Some are supposed lefties some are actually extreme right wingers ...buta lot of them either work for with or associate with VB. Or are friends of those who work for VB.

VB owns a few publications and works as a print journalist and a television broadcaster..he has been a barrister.do people really think he lives comfortably.he can put together a logical probing arguement ..but really is disingenuious in how he sells himself.

I once heard him enquire to a panelist 'well, why can't we all earn the same wage?'.

Well he himself Mick Wallace and co could never live as they have lived in that scenario not without breaking the law.

He could perhaps be called a social democrat like myself. But he really goes over the top to remind viewers ' I am a red i fight for you my people..now watch my programe and buy my magazines'. And they fall for it.


And yes many many ministers own rented out properties.......and they have rent alllowance going right into THEIR pockets...through some genuine cases ..its such a scam they keep rent high through anti competition and lack of longterm leases and tenants right etc and then it looks as though those in need are being helped and they don't end up being better off in the long term compared to opening up the rental markets and putting some competition and regulation and rights like on the continent. And it is tax payers money.

I have family who make their living from renting out property and when done properly it is actually a full time job. When done well is can offer people competitive service and be a growing business. But there are too many people buying a house with a second mortgage expecting to earn a packet by doing nothing and getting into debt because they don't realize you have to expand it into a business or do something with it. It is full of amateur landlords many of whom have political influence. The standard of the legal strength of lease is this country is not great landlords violate it all the time. Many fiddle the system to get more from rent allowance by officially charging more or using it to fiddle tax. It is ridiculous.

If people genuinely need it then they are entitled to it. But the rental insudtry needs huge reforms. There is a huge market not being catered to for lower end family homes with long-term leases with some security. It really could have helped prevent the current situations with some young families taking on financial obligations that they were not earning enough for. They were not even ever going to be in a position to ever earn enough for to be honest. And it would take huge pressure off the council.

Not all families are going to be able to live in a house and own their own property. But may be slightly better off financially than those in council housing and that needs to be acknowledged and the market could cater for it if there was reform. And of course some Irish people got used to the idea of renting permenently.

It baffles me though when some extreme lefties ( i am a moderate central leftie ok so i am not being biased) seem to think that through 'real socialism' we are all going to be able to be equally upper class or at least middle upper class. It's an oxymoron. Infact VB is an oxymoron.:P ...Sometimes he can get a point accross well though or deconstruct a badly argued point.

Good loser

Browne like many populists opposes tooth and nail every attempt to reduce social welfare expenditure. A la the rent supplement cases last week. Wouldn't be surprised if RBB sourced the complainents for him.

The next night then he is wringing his hands about the exchequer borrowing/overhang of debt/ GNP-GDP stuff. Never ever making a connection between high social welfare spending and our current problems. Despite the fact that SW eats up at least half of Govt income.

The obvious question to be asked each time someone opposes a social welfare cut is where do they suggest the same money should be saved (in the same time) within the social welfare budget.

He also has a terrible grasp of maths, statistics and logic. One night he didn't know how many zeros were in a billion. He takes one fact or statistic and feels that alone makes a case when any number of contra facts might be highly relevant.

Brings to mind a headless chicken.