Fake bids?

darkdubh

At the moment we are bidding on a house which has been on the market for the best part of a year.It's gone down in price twice during this period,at the moment asking price is 89000.There was a another bidder befor e whose bid of 75000 was rejected.We offered 80000 and the agent came back saying that the seller would be probably accept if we went closer to 85.So after a day or two we came back with 82500.The agent made all kinds of noises about being close to a deal and said he'd get back to the seller.He came back to today saying they were on the brink of agreement but another bidder after just seeing the house yesterday has now bid 1000 above us.I'm a bit suspicious that a house that's attracted very little interest for so long should get a last minuite bid like this.Could it be that the agent is inventing this bidder to encourage us to counter bid and drive up the final price?If so is this common?

bassey

Tell him your offer stands at 82500 and will start to drop by 500 everyday after Monday

StillWaters

darkdubh wrote: »

I'm a bit suspicious that a house that's attracted very little interest for so long should get a last minuite bid like this.Could it be that the agent is inventing this bidder to encourage us to counter bid and drive up the final price?If so is this common?

Yes it is possible, even probable that the bid is fake. You could do as bassey suggests and call his bluff. There are plenty of houses out there, unless this one ticks every single one of your boxes, and then some, I would be sticking firm to your original offer.

Pkiernan

I believe that Estate Agents typically receive a commission of 1 to 2.5% plus VAT.

His commission will be approx €825 to €2000 on an €82,500 sales price.

His commission on an €83,500 would range from €835 to €2100.

Do you think your agent is risking his entire commission just to get an extra €100 max.?

More importantly, pay what you feel the house is worth to you.

If you do feel comfortable paying more, then walk away.

If you like the house enough, then pay the extra.

ted1

1% of a thousand is 10 not 100

kegzmc

ted1 wrote: »

1% of a thousand is 10 not 100

1% of 100 =1
1% of 1000=10
1% of 10000=100

dtipp

You should always give the impression to the agent that you are prepared to not buy the house. So many people tell agents it's their dream house, and they'll be upset if they don't get it. You have to remember the agent is on the side of the seller, not the buyer - and the agent will be passing on info, such as your enthusiasm for the house.

So now that you've given your price of 82,500 it's important that the agent is now chasing you, not the other way around. Don't be ringing, wondering what the story is - make the agent ring you. And stick to your guns - no humming and hawing about maybe upping the price, make it clear there is no chance. And after a phone call or two from the agent, ask that you hear one way or the other within, say, 10 days.

This isn't foolproof - but in order not to pay above what you should, you have to be willing to walk away. If, of course, you absolutely want the house, and are willing to pay more rather than risk not getting it - well, then, perhaps you'll have re-evaluate.

Lyn256

I'd also agree that the EA is calling his bluff! Yes he's risking his commission or is he? How many people come on here and take advice-maybe 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. Like other posters have said-if its not your dream home -call his bluff. This trick has probably worked for him in the past-he manages to squeeze another few grand out of the buyer-thats his job!

When I was selling my house in late 2010-the EA got the buyer up an additional €17k from his original offer-don;t know what he said or did but there were no other interested buyers. Granted we were well priced and he'd come in with an offer over 10% less than asking

In fact, tell the agent that you've just spotted another house that really ticks all your boxes and that you're planning to view it in the coming days . . . COUNTER BLUFF!!

darkdubh

We've decided to think about it over the weekend before coming to any decisions.We do like the house but it's one of three or four that we saw over the last couple of weeks that we've been interested in.Just wondering if anybody else has had experience of something similar?

nacimroc

We just bought a house a few months ago. All EA's will do this to you. Just tell them your offer is good until Monday evening only! Put them under pressure not the other way around.

Also, ring up the EA about another property they are selling. Ask for a viewing and sound really interested. When leaving tell them you have one more viewing early next week with a different EA. Its a lot of messing but it could save you a lot of money for a few mins work and a few phone calls.

OR

If its the place you really want, do you want to lose it over 2k. You could just bite the bullet. Its small change compared to the big picture of 85k

(I can't believe a property is selling that close to the asking price for a start, nevermind the fact they haven't accepted either :eek: Celtic Tiger here we come?)

Jumpaddict

All well and good until this 'new' bidder counter offers, then what?

I would suggest as Bassey has said, although I would drop the offer by 500 first, then tell him there is a time limit and you are viewing other properties also...

Then again, its easy for me to advise other people what to do with their money:D

darkdubh

Our hunch was right.The agent rang my partner just a while ago.The other "bidder" has withdrawn and they're accepting our bid.:D

Sulla Felix

Tell him you'll think about it, that you've seen something else and -might- give him a ring Tuesday.

nacimroc

darkdubh wrote: »

Our hunch was right.The agent rang my partner just a while ago.The other "bidder" has withdrawn and they're accepting our bid.:D

Good to hear! Congrats on the new place.

Now you get the jump from one shower of con artists to the next! Enjoy the bankers and solicitors!:D

poker--addict

bassey wrote: »

Tell him your offer stands at 82500 and will start to drop by 500 everyday after Monday

I am bringing you with me when I start my bidding!!!!!:D

leahyl

Sorry for gatecrashing thread but I also viewed a house recently and the agent said they had an offer of 160k on it (house us up for 189k which is way overpriced) and even 160k is way too much - a lot of work to be done. At the time all I said to the agent was "let me know if it doesn't work out - you have my number" or something like that but I never actually put in an offer which I'm regretting now.

But then yesterday a work colleague of mine rang the agent "enquiring" about the property for herself (for me obv!) and the agent said that they had an offer on it a few weeks back of 160k but that the seller wouldn't accept it so is it a waste of time anyway putting in my offer (which is 140k btw) cos they most likely won't accept it? Also, this house has been on the Market for 3 years!!

StillWaters

leahyl wrote: »

But then yesterday a work colleague of mine rang the agent "enquiring" about the property for herself (for me obv!) and the agent said that they had an offer on it a few weeks back of 160k but that the seller wouldn't accept it so is it a waste of time anyway putting in my offer (which is 140k btw) cos they most likely won't accept it? Also, this house has been on the Market for 3 years!!

Why all the subterfuge? Just put in your €140k offer.

poker--addict

If the opinion of the other guys on the thread is correct then it is only a waste of time for the owner and agent... so offer 140,000 and tell them it stands for 14 or 21 days. Then forget about it! If they dont accept you know your not getting tricked into paying over the odds, if they do then great.

leahyl

poker--addict wrote: »

If the opinion of the other guys on the thread is correct then it is only a waste of time for the owner and agent... so offer 140,000 and tell them it stands for 14 or 21 days. Then forget about it! If they dont accept you know your not getting tricked into paying over the odds, if they do then great.

Thanks - I'm going to ring them and do just that but I'm terrible when it comes to these kinds of phonecalls - I start stuttering unless I know exactly what to say!! I'd like to be assertive about it so the EA knows I'm serious! Any tips anyone??!!

Jumpaddict

Write on a piece of paper what you want to say, just bullet points, keep looking at it while you talk. Do not let him interrupt while you are speaking, keep going until you have said all that you need then let him ramble on a bit, when he's finished, look at the piece of paper again and say the same thing again;)

djmcr

Pkiernan wrote: »

Do you think your agent is risking his entire commission just to get an extra €100 max.?/

its the nature of the beast

leahyl

Jumpaddict wrote: »

Write on a piece of paper what you want to say, just bullet points, keep looking at it while you talk. Do not let him interrupt while you are speaking, keep going until you have said all that you need then let him ramble on a bit, when he's finished, look at the piece of paper again and say the same thing again;)

Thanks! Yes I think that is the best thing to do alright - that way I forget to say anything or say too much! Thanks for your reply :-)

Avengers

leahyl wrote: »

Sorry for gatecrashing thread but I also viewed a house recently and the agent said they had an offer of 160k on it (house us up for 189k which is way overpriced) and even 160k is way too much - a lot of work to be done. At the time all I said to the agent was "let me know if it doesn't work out - you have my number" or something like that but I never actually put in an offer which I'm regretting now.

But then yesterday a work colleague of mine rang the agent "enquiring" about the property for herself (for me obv!) and the agent said that they had an offer on it a few weeks back of 160k but that the seller wouldn't accept it so is it a waste of time anyway putting in my offer (which is 140k btw) cos they most likely won't accept it? Also, this house has been on the Market for 3 years!!

Hi All,

I had simillar experience which turned out to be a disappointing one.

Seen a property(3 bed duplex) 1 month ago marketed as brand new with asking price 175k, EA said he already turned down a 160k cash offer and told me that he wont consider anything less than 166k.

I took a week time to do some R&D about the property, came to know from neighbours that a family lived there for 1-2 years under easy options(rent to buy), went back to EA and argued on how could you mislead us stating brand new, EA cleverly says it is not registered to anyone hence brand new on Title, I offered him 140k based on the fact that the property is not brand new & used by someone for under 2 yrs, EA said it will be a waste of time to discuss it with 140k offer price.

I waited for 3 weeks thinking EA will come back to negotiate the price between 140k-150k ( I was willing to pay close to 150k but never expressed it to EA). I rang him last week to know itz already sold

I really don't know if my approach was correct or not. maybe I should have dealt it differently by calling EA every week by increasing the offer price(3-4k each time) to let him know that I am really intereted in the property.

Has anyone got an idea about the approx difference between "Asking Price Vs Agreed Price"( I mean is there a chance of 20% difference? OR is it 10%).
Any suggestions on dealing with EA about a property we really liked but not able to close the deal due to price variation...

Thank you.

leahyl

Avengers wrote: »

Hi All,

I had simillar experience which turned out to be a disappointing one.

Seen a property(3 bed duplex) 1 month ago marketed as brand new with asking price 175k, EA said he already turned down a 160k cash offer and told me that he wont consider anything less than 166k.

I took a week time to do some R&D about the property, came to know from neighbours that a family lived there for 1-2 years under easy options(rent to buy), went back to EA and argued on how could you mislead us stating brand new, EA cleverly says it is not registered to anyone hence brand new on Title, I offered him 140k based on the fact that the property is not brand new & used by someone for under 2 yrs, EA said it will be a waste of time to discuss it with 140k offer price.

I waited for 3 weeks thinking EA will come back to negotiate the price between 140k-150k ( I was willing to pay close to 150k but never expressed it to EA). I rang him last week to know itz already sold

I really don't know if my approach was correct or not. maybe I should have dealt it differently by calling EA every week by increasing the offer price(3-4k each time) to let him know that I am really intereted in the property.

Has anyone got an idea about the approx difference between "Asking Price Vs Agreed Price"( I mean is there a chance of 20% difference? OR is it 10%).
Any suggestions on dealing with EA about a property we really liked but not able to close the deal due to price variation...

Thank you.

Just an update, I just rang the EA there and put in the offer of 140k and he was like 'well they refused 160k' and I said 'really?? Oh I wasn't aware of that!" (I was, cos my work colleague rang for me!). The thing is when I went to view it 3 weeks ago the same guy told me that they had an offer of 160k on it and that they were just waiting on the architect to come and check it out and if all went well that the sale would go through - so he totally lied there too which makes me even more convinced that there was no offer.

Anyway, I just said to him that with the amount of work that needs to be done on the house the most that it's worth would be 140k so I'd leave it at that and he could get back to me if he's interested in selling (;)) I'm happy I did it now - I'm just gonna forget about it and get on with looking at other houses also and who knows what might happen.

Avengers, you need to play the game like the EA - I've learnt this from reading this forum. They are the biggest liers going for the most part so you need to be able to play hardball with them! I definitely don't think you should have been ringing them and offering a few thousand more each time!! Let them get back to you - if they really want to sell, the seller should know the climate we are in and realise that they are not going to get near what the house would have been worth in the 'boom times'.:)

I'm suddenly extremely confident in my negotiating skills!! Lol

bear_hunter

while im not naive enough to think no auctioner never picks out phantom bids , i thought it was much more prevalent in public auction rooms ( flys on the wall bidding etc ) , i thought they had to be straight about the price in a private treaty , how is an interested party to really know if the estate agent is bluffing , sure , calling their bluff could save you a few grand but what if you miss out on the property

leahyl

bear_hunter wrote: »

while im not naive enough to think no auctioner never picks out phantom bids , i thought it was much more prevalent in public auction rooms ( flys on the wall bidding etc ) , i thought they had to be straight about the price in a private treaty , how is an interested party to really know if the estate agent is bluffing , sure , calling their bluff could save you a few grand but what if you miss out on the property

That's just it - you don't know if they're bluffing but you kind of have to assume they are! The reason I think, in my case, that the offer doesn't exist is because the house in question has been on the market for 3 years (I've been looking at Daft for the last 3 years and it's been there!) so the fact that I went to view it (for a second time actually) and the EA suddenly comes out with "oh we have an offer of 160k" on it (after 3 years of no offers presumably) makes me think "this guy is having a laugh".:)

bear_hunter

leahyl wrote: »

That's just it - you don't know if they're bluffing but you kind of have to assume they are! The reason I think, in my case, that the offer doesn't exist is because the house in question has been on the market for 3 years (I've been looking at Daft for the last 3 years and it's been there!) so the fact that I went to view it (for a second time actually) and the EA suddenly comes out with "oh we have an offer of 160k" on it (after 3 years of no offers presumably) makes me think "this guy is having a laugh".:)

you may be right , i recently bought some property , was on the market for less than three months , when i looked at it , the bid was 400 k , anyway , myself and the competition exchanged bids up to 450 k , i eventually put on a bid of 465 and got it , perhaps the other bidder never existed , no way i could say for sure


its a country home with land but reasonabley close to a main city ( not dublin ) , land is expensive right now so i was focusing on the land price aswell

leahyl

bear_hunter wrote: »

you may be right , i recently bought some property , was on the market for less than three months , when i looked at it , the bid was 400 k , anyway , myself and the competition exchanged bids up to 450 k , i eventually put on a bid of 465 and got it , perhaps the other bidder never existed , no way i could say for sure


its a country home with land but reasonabley close to a main city ( not dublin ) , land is expensive right now so i was focusing on the land price aswell

Exactly, you just don't know. I think the EA was thinking he'd make up a phantom bid of 160k so that maybe I'd be naive enough to come back and offer 170k or something like that (probably knew he wouldn't get the 190k that it is priced at but was still trying to get as much as possible). Well that's my take on it anyway. There's absolutely nothing in the house like - not even a kitchen so I think my offer is reasonable:D

nacimroc

Avengers wrote: »

Hi All,

Has anyone got an idea about the approx difference between "Asking Price Vs Agreed Price"( I mean is there a chance of 20% difference? OR is it 10%).
Any suggestions on dealing with EA about a property we really liked but not able to close the deal due to price variation...

We paid 35% of the asking price for a house 4 months ago. Everyone will tell you differently and that you should be bidding within 10% but it really depends on if the seller just threw the house up for sale 5 years ago and didn't change the asking price. In my personal opinion, take what they were asking 4 years ago and offer 35%. This is about what the CSO etc says and its relatively close to what houses are selling for.

Have a look at http://www.daftdrop.com/#!homeView

This shows how much the asking prices have dropped, but it will give you an indication of how close of an offer should be made.

From my dealings with EA's , my best advice would be to pretend they can't speak. Ignore every single word that they say. Not putting an offer on as they said they already have a higher offer is wrong. Put the offers in, the owner might be delighted to accept. Circumstances may change for the seller hours after your offer went in, basically you won't know unless you try.

Duckjob

EA: "There was an offer already of 160k on the property, which the seller has rejected"

You: "Really? That's a very good offer, they should bite that buyers hand off. All the best then."

poker--addict

bear_hunter wrote: »

calling their bluff could save you a few grand but what if you miss out on the property

You win some you lose some, its a buyers market, forget it and move on to the next one.there is so many houses for sale...it would be daft to pay more then what it is worth.

Find the value.