Disagreement over which Civic building will be City Hall

Amazotheamazing

Local councils fight over future seat of power
By Jimmy Woulfe, Mid-West Correspondent
Thursday, July 12, 2012
Two local authorities on the verge of amalgamation are in dispute over the planned location of the new seat of power.
Conn Murphy was yesterday unveiled as the manager of a new super-sized authority in Limerick covering a population of more than 184,000 people in the city and county.

No sooner had the appointment been announced than a row erupted over where Mr Murphy would be based — in the existing City Hall or the county council offices in the suburb of Dooradoyle.

The single local authority, with a reduced current number of elected members, takes effect from Sept 2014.

City councillors immediately demanded that the new manager should be based in the city centre.

However, county council members rejected City Hall as "totally unsuitable" due to the city courts being in the same complex.

The appointment of Mr Murray, who served as town clerk in the city 14 years ago, was yesterday given unanimous backing by Limerick City Council for the €153,000-a-year post.

Limerick County Council approved his appointment last Monday.

The new structure will come into force after the 2014 local elections.

It will replace the 28-member county council and the 17-member city body.

It is anticipated that the new council will have at least 30 members.

The county council currently operates from a modern €33m complex at Dooradoyle which opened in 2003.

The city authority is based at City Hall at Merchant’s Quay in a building opened in 1990 by then taoiseach Charles Haughey.

The council shares the building with the city court and is regularly featured in news bulletins when major criminals are on trial there.

Access for VIP visitors to City Hall is regularly through a rear entrance when the court is sitting.

City-based Cllr Pat Kennedy said: "The new headquarters must be located here, on the banks of the Shannon."

Cllr Tom Short said City Hall was the logical location as it would sent out a message the city was the centre of the entire region.

However, county councillors insisted their spacious new building was the obvious choice.

Ex-county council chairman Cllr Richard Butler said: "For years, members of the city council have been giving out about the rough element who gather every day near the courthouse entrance at the city hall building.

"Visitors and the public have to walk a very intimidating gauntlet to get into city hall. The court facility is not going to be moved due to lack of money. So, are we to put up with same vista on the TV news of the entrance to the main administrative building in the Mid-West bristling with armed gardaí?

"How could you explain this kind of scenario, a regular one, to a visiting ambassador or a visiting industrialist. It’s a no-brainer — city hall would be the worst possible location from both an administrative and image point of view."

Amazotheamazing

Absolutely no doubt in my mind it should be in the city centre though i don't particularly like the City Hall building and agree about the location of the Courts. The Courts should be moved to a new complex nearly the jail and the old Courthouse turned into a gallery/theatre/whatever.

Ideally it'd move into a separate building somewhere else in the city centre or a redevelopment of the current building (knock and start again).

Mc Love

It should be in the city and the courts be moved elsewhere! But if that isnt an option then the dooradoyle office would be the best

Sully777

We're the courts supposed to move next door to the prison on Mulgrave Street?

HattieMcDoogal

I too think it should stay in the city centre. With all the talk of the donut effect in Limerick City and the decline of the city centre, moving the town hall out of the city centre isn't the best idea.

Kess73

Just goes to show what a pack of clowns they are. How long ago was the merge announced, and it is only on the day that the new manager was confirmed that they suddenly realised that they had not decided where the manager would be based? Great planning there boys.

Nice to see that something as petty as this is what gets them worked up and not real issues facing the city.

The excuse about the Courts is a joke. The court has been there for years and the same things that they are now claiming as problems were there for years.

Just stick the manager in city hall and be done with it. Which bloody building he is in should have no bearing on the job he and the rest of them should be doing, and it should certainly not be let become a big issue that allows useless councillors to try and get themselves some column inches.


Had to laugh at the article calling the new manager both Murphy and Murray

rainbowdash

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The council shares the building with the city court and is regularly featured in news bulletins when major criminals are on trial there.

Access for VIP visitors to City Hall is regularly through a rear entrance when the court is sitting.

I hate this rubbish journalism, trying to link everything to do with Limerick to the criminal gangs.

To the best of my knowledge these gangs are nowhere near as strong as they once were, I don't hear of too many gang linked murders around Limerick lately.

Furthermore it does not share a building, its a different building entirely.

And if VIP's need to be brought in the back way that means they come via the Castle and the "medieval quarter" which would seem the logical route anyway after all the money that has gone into it during the years.

jbkenn

Here is a compromise, move him into the old City Hall on Rutland st. we own it anyway and it would start the re-occupation of the Opera Centre fiasco

Poxyshamrock

rainbowdash wrote: »

I hate this rubbish journalism, trying to link everything to do with Limerick to the criminal gangs.

To the best of my knowledge these gangs are nowhere near as strong as they once were, I don't hear of too many gang linked murders around Limerick lately.

Furthermore it does not share a building, its a different building entirely.

And if VIP's need to be brought in the back way that means they come via the Castle and the "medieval quarter" which would seem the logical route anyway after all the money that has gone into it during the years.

Some of the court is inside in the Civic buildings also.

But your point about using the back entrance is very valid!

HattieMcDoogal

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Some of the court is inside in the Civic buildings also.

But your point about using the back entrance is very valid!

Also to the best of my knowledge most of the civic receptions are held in the evening when the court is closed? Could be wrong on that though.

Amazotheamazing

HattieMcDoogal wrote: »

Also to the best of my knowledge most of the civic receptions are held in the evening when the court is closed? Could be wrong on that though.

Possibly, but anyone who uses the main entrance when the District Court is sitting will tell you it's deeply unpleasant. It also means a large number of petty criminals are hanging around an area that should be a tourist spot (Mary's Cathedral etc). It's the District Court that is the worst by a long way as anything that brings the real scum to the Circuit or High Court is usually well policed.

Indeed, this could be a good catalyst to get the District Court moved to a more suitable location (well out of the immediate city centre, imo).

zulutango

Kess73 wrote: »

Just goes to show what a pack of clowns they are. How long ago was the merge announced, and it is only on the day that the new manager was confirmed that they suddenly realised that they had not decided where the manager would be based? Great planning there boys.

Kess, the councillors had no influence on who the new manager was going to be or where he/she would be based. There is a Department of Environment committee that is overseeing the amalgamation.

Kess73

zulutango wrote: »

Kess, the councillors had no influence on who the new manager was going to be or where he/she would be based. There is a Department of Environment committee that is overseeing the amalgamation.

I phrased it badly. What I meant it is a bit rich that the councillors making a fuss over it now when it had to be pretty obvious beforehand that no final decision had been made as to where the manager would be based.

I used the word they twice in the one sentence and it reads like each they is the councillors, when that was not my intent.

I feel that it is just a few of the usual suspects trying to get themselves into the papers and make it look like they (councillors this time ) are actually doing something.

If the councillors in question did not know what the process entailed, then it really says a lot about them in their roles. If they did know, then it is just a cynical attempt to get publicity. Either way they get my disgust.

zulutango

I suspect it's another case of them being asked the question by local journos looking for a story. It is ever thus in this city.

Kess73

zulutango wrote: »

I suspect it's another case of them being asked the question by local journos looking for a story. It is ever thus in this city.

I don't know. There are two names in that article that seem to be the rent a quote type. Although since the Edinburgh Limerick Leader changed owners it has gone from a Parish pump paper to a third rate wannabe red top.

zulutango

It's an awful rag alright.

As for the issue at hand, it would be fairly absurd if the city council was located in the suburbs of the city, especially in light of all the efforts that are being made to revive the city centre. Pullling 300 workers out of the city isn't going to do much for it.

The short-term, narrow thinking will say that the new authority should be located in the more modern and spacious building (which is the county hall in Dooradoyle), but if we're thinking about the long term viability of the city and the entire region, the administration should be in the heart of the city centre, as is the case in strong cities all over the world.

europa11

Rumour has it a compromise has been engineered by Mayor Locky and the all-new unitary Council will now convene in Poznan City Hall in time to avail of the Christmas Markets.



..............Must tip off the "Sun-Leader"., they might be just thick enough to swallow it going by their ever-declining "standards".

Amazotheamazing

zulutango wrote: »

It's an awful rag alright.

As for the issue at hand, it would be fairly absurd if the city council was located in the suburbs of the city, especially in light of all the efforts that are being made to revive the city centre. Pullling 300 workers out of the city isn't going to do much for it.

The short-term, narrow thinking will say that the new authority should be located in the more modern and spacious building (which is the county hall in Dooradoyle), but if we're thinking about the long term viability of the city and the entire region, the administration should be in the heart of the city centre, as is the case in strong cities all over the world.

It's absolutely vital that the electoral wards are designed correctly. We need to get people in Raheen and Annacotty to identify themselves with the city.

zulutango

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's absolutely vital that the electoral wards are designed correctly. We need to get people in Raheen and Annacotty to identify themselves with the city.

Agreed. According to the Brosnan report, these areas should be part of the the Limerick Urban area, so that augurs well. What doesn't look so promising is that Phil Hogan has already reneged on a significant recommendation of the Brosnan report (that parts of SE Clare) should be brought into the new area, so he may screw up on this element of the amalgamation as well.

ninty9er

City Hall is only 20 years old?? It's a miserable dull old place, couple to that the fact the Council Chamber won't hold 30+ councillors then Dooradoyle is the logical base site for the merged authority, though parking is an issue there.

Dooradoyle is also served well by the motorway network which gives access to the entire authority area with much less fuss than the city centre.

I'm not sure it's worth fighting for.

Think Washington vs New York, Canberra vs Sydney, Den Haag vs Amsterdam.

Where the administration happens is really irrelevant, so long as the actual administration itself doesn't forget that it is for 184,000.

zulutango

Ultimately, county Clare is going to be merged with Limerick, so that'll have to be kept in mind when choosing the new headquarters. I think the site formerly known as the Opera Centre on Patrick Street in Limerick could be ideal.

pigtown

Is there anything to be said for moving the tax office from Sarsfield House to county hall and the county hall offices to Sarsfield House? Then all of the workers would be in close proximity to each other.