The VDV enigma

DubPerryman

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/hamburg-billionaire-ready-to-send-a-chunk-of-cash-to-tottenham-ho

Looks like the Van Der Vaart enigma could be coming to an end.

He's an absolute beautiful player to watch, his understanding/reading of the game is fantastic. I remember going to our first Champions League match (v Twente) - I must have spent 80 mins of the match watching VDV's movement off the ball.

The only problem is, he's an enigma. You'd be mad to leave him out of your team, but if you want to play a system you can't have him in it.

When Mourinho went to Real Madrid he realised he couldn't carry such a player and thus we got him at a snip. AVB is similar, he has a very system-based approach to the game. AVB would not be happy with VDV dropping back to pick the ball up from the centre backs - thus, I can see VDV's time at WHL coming to an end.

It was great to have you here Mr VDV, but it's time we push on to start winning titles.

Kiith

He's launching a magazine...about his own life? Wtf?

I've long been a fan of VDV. There's very few players who can pull of some of the passes that he can, and look relaxed about doing it. He's never been the fittest player, and has a horrid time with injuries, but he's also pulled out some fantastic performances for us. If he does go, i'll say thanks and wouldn't hold it against him at all. I think we'd be able to find a good replacement for him (or maybe Siggy is that replacement).

Hatch99

DubPerryman wrote: »

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/hamburg-billionaire-ready-to-send-a-chunk-of-cash-to-tottenham-ho

Looks like the Van Der Vaart enigma could be coming to an end.

He's an absolute beautiful player to watch, his understanding/reading of the game is fantastic. I remember going to our first Champions League match (v Twente) - I must have spent 80 mins of the match watching VDV's movement off the ball.

The only problem is, he's an enigma. You'd be mad to leave him out of your team, but if you want to play a system you can't have him in it.

When Mourinho went to Real Madrid he realised he couldn't carry such a player and thus we got him at a snip. AVB is similar, he has a very system-based approach to the game. AVB would not be happy with VDV dropping back to pick the ball up from the centre backs - thus, I can see VDV's time at WHL coming to an end.

It was great to have you here Mr VDV, but it's time we push on to start winning titles.

Sell him. Milk the germans for 15m and spend it on a younger version

Leinstersqspur

I'd keep him for another season at least, he's one of our most senior players and the young players can learn from him. Has a great eye for goal and could play in the right hand side position off the main striker that AVB uses.

oregano

Hatch99 wrote: »

DubPerryman wrote: »

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/hamburg-billionaire-ready-to-send-a-chunk-of-cash-to-tottenham-ho

Looks like the Van Der Vaart enigma could be coming to an end.

He's an absolute beautiful player to watch, his understanding/reading of the game is fantastic. I remember going to our first Champions League match (v Twente) - I must have spent 80 mins of the match watching VDV's movement off the ball.

The only problem is, he's an enigma. You'd be mad to leave him out of your team, but if you want to play a system you can't have him in it.

When Mourinho went to Real Madrid he realised he couldn't carry such a player and thus we got him at a snip. AVB is similar, he has a very system-based approach to the game. AVB would not be happy with VDV dropping back to pick the ball up from the centre backs - thus, I can see VDV's time at WHL coming to an end.

It was great to have you here Mr VDV, but it's time we push on to start winning titles.

Sell him. Milk the germans for 15m and spend it on a younger version

I think we've just bought the younger version! He's a fabulous player but enigma is right, a la Ginola, in that he's not a workhorse and that's what we need nowadays to push on and overtake the Arsenal. But if he stays, and someone increases his stamina (and the Harry regime were not overly scientific) he would be a hell of an impact sub.

However his missus is a topper and I'll go to hamburg with her instead if that suits Tottenhams cause...

DubPerryman

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

I'd keep him for another season at least, he's one of our most senior players and the young players can learn from him. Has a great eye for goal and could play in the right hand side position off the main striker that AVB uses.

I'd have my doubts with VDV in a 4-3-3. I think AVB has fast attackers like Bale/Lennon lined up for the positions either side of a striker. So VDV would have to play centrally, in the midfield. In a 4-3-3 the three midfielders are working tirelessly across the middle covering the wingers/wide forwards. I can't see VDV being disciplined enough to do this job.

Though, he would fit in to a 4-2-3-1 where the two holding midfielders would play a fairly conservative game and allow him to play a free-role in behind the striker.

The thing is if he's not starting week-in and week-out, is there a chance he might pull a strop and be more hassle than he's worth?

Hatch99

DubPerryman wrote: »

I'd have my doubts with VDV in a 4-3-3. I think AVB has fast attackers like Bale/Lennon lined up for the positions either side of a striker. So VDV would have to play centrally, in the midfield. In a 4-3-3 the three midfielders are working tirelessly across the middle covering the wingers/wide forwards. I can't see VDV being disciplined enough to do this job.

Though, he would fit in to a 4-2-3-1 where the two holding midfielders would play a fairly conservative game and allow him to play a free-role in behind the striker.

The thing is if he's not starting week-in and week-out, is there a chance he might pull a strop and be more hassle than he's worth?

spot on

tippspur

So we want to get rid of one of our best player now aswel

PogMoThoin

I can't see him fitting in with AVB's tactics

KingdomYid

tippspur wrote: »

So we want to get rid of one of our best player now aswel

Totally agree 100%. If we lose him and Modric we are miles behind where we were last year as these are world class players and proven in the Premier League.

tippspur

Hamburg have ruled out signing VDV today so that's good news anyway.

tippspur

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I can't see him fitting in with AVB's tactics

He's a goal scoring midfielder so fit him in.

Hatch99

KingdomYid wrote: »

Totally agree 100%. If we lose him and Modric we are miles behind where we were last year as these are world class players and proven in the Premier League.

In fairness, saying they are both world class is a bit much no

Sugarlumps

If anything we should be looking to add to the squad, not deplete it. AVB will be gunning to win a trophy this season, therefore it’s going to be a gruelling on key players.

VDV is a very important player who weighed in with some priceless goals. He’s quality and can turn a game with a beautifully hit pass, I for one hope he stays.

DubPerryman

tippspur wrote: »

So we want to get rid of one of our best player now aswel

It's not that we want to get rid of him, but if a player doesn't suit a system and he may turn out to be trouble, then get rid of him. No player is bigger than the team. You can't carry luxury players if they don't fit the system.

Ormus

He is a very good player but a complete luxury.

Of course we would miss him if he left but he doesn't fit in the team and he would kick up if left on the bench.

Leinstersqspur

DubPerryman wrote: »

It's not that we want to get rid of him, but if a player doesn't suit a system and he may turn out to be trouble, then get rid of him.

When fit, Vdv is an world class footballer, better technique & vision than anybody in our current squad. He scored some vital goals for us last season. To suggest he could become a trouble maker is totally unfounded. His only grievance last season was not having the opportunity to play in the Europa league as he's hungry to win trophies at Spurs.

DubPerryman wrote: »

No player is bigger than the team. You can't carry luxury players if they don't fit the system.

I'd guess he knows himself that he doesn't have the fitness for 90mins in the EPL but I'd guess he would be happy to be used in rotation if it meant we were to win a trophy or two. Also, it is very hard to put a value on the leadership he brings and the amount that young players such as Gylfi, Bale etc can learn from him.For me, unless we sign a serious goal poacher he has to stay!

DubPerryman

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

When fit, Vdv is an world class footballer, better technique & vision than anybody in our current squad. He scored some vital goals for us last season. To suggest he could become a trouble maker is totally unfounded. His only grievance last season was not having the opportunity to play in the Europa league as he's hungry to win trophies at Spurs.I'd guess he knows himself that he doesn't have the fitness for 90mins in the EPL but I'd guess he would be happy to be used in rotation if it meant we were to win a trophy or two. Also, it is very hard to put a value on the leadership he brings and the amount that young players such as Gylfi, Bale etc can learn from him.For me, unless we sign a serious goal poacher he has to stay!

As you can see in my first post, I agree with you on everything you're saying regarding his talent.

I just felt that last season, Harry fitted him in for the sake of fitting him in. And, sometimes, that was to the detriment of the team.

I love watching VDV play. But, if AVB prefers the 4-3-3 next season, we may be watching him play fewer minutes than he did last season. And, with his ambition, he will not be happy sitting on the bench.

Hatch99

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

When fit, Vdv is an world class footballer, better technique & vision than anybody in our current squad. He scored some vital goals for us last season. To suggest he could become a trouble maker is totally unfounded. His only grievance last season was not having the opportunity to play in the Europa league as he's hungry to win trophies at Spurs.I'd guess he knows himself that he doesn't have the fitness for 90mins in the EPL but I'd guess he would be happy to be used in rotation if it meant we were to win a trophy or two. Also, it is very hard to put a value on the leadership he brings and the amount that young players such as Gylfi, Bale etc can learn from him.For me, unless we sign a serious goal poacher he has to stay!

Maybe a conversation for another forum, but to say he is world class is a bit far fetched mate. Yes he has been very good for us and scored some big big goals, but I'm with Dub on this one, I can't see him fitting in to the side. Maybe if we play 4231 he can play in behind, but certainly not out wide, the full back would be murdered time and time again.

Leinstersqspur

Hatch99 wrote: »

to say he is world class is a bit far fetched mate.

We'll have to disagree. IMHO his movement, vision and technique are a joy to behold. You could argue about his fitness but his class is undeniable (for me).

Hatch99 wrote: »

I can't see him fitting in to the side. Maybe if we play 4231 he can play in behind, but certainly not out wide, the full back would be murdered time and time again.

AVB played Hulk front right off the main striker. I'd expect something similar.

oregano

Ormus wrote: »

He is a very good player but a complete luxury.

Of course we would miss him if he left but he doesn't fit in the team and he would kick up if left on the bench.

Is it because he's Dutch we assume he will cause grief

BERBA

if 15m was on the table for him i'd bite your hand off.........

KingdomYid

BERBA wrote: »

if 15m was on the table for him i'd bite your hand off.........

You will be waiting for an offer of that amount mate. I am a big fan of Rafa and hope that he stays as long as possible, he is the best finisher in our squad without a shadow of a doubt.

keane=cock

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

We'll have to disagree. IMHO his movement, vision and technique are a joy to behold. You could argue about his fitness but his class is undeniable (for me).AVB played Hulk front right off the main striker. I'd expect something similar.

ill agree with leinsterspur here.

he is not the most mobile player (personally i dont think its fitness i think its lazyness) but he is a fantastic footballer. passing, vision, technique he has it all. im a fan!

tippspur

DubPerryman wrote: »

As you can see in my first post, I agree with you on everything you're saying regarding his talent.

I just felt that last season, Harry fitted him in for the sake of fitting him in. And, sometimes, that was to the detriment of the team.

I love watching VDV play. But, if AVB prefers the 4-3-3 next season, we may be watching him play fewer minutes than he did last season. And, with his ambition, he will not be happy sitting on the bench.

You say Harry played VDV just for the sake of fitting him in,sorry but that's rubbish.Harry play him because he is a class player and a match winner and that's what he has proven to be for Spurs.

yiddo59

tippspur wrote: »

You say Harry played VDV just for the sake of fitting him in,sorry but that's rubbish.Harry play him because he is a class player and a match winner and that's what he has proven to be for Spurs.

Sense! VDV is a top player and a joy to watch.

PS It's a mark of how much we've moved on that we're questioning the value of VDV not so long ago we'd be arguing about Rasiak or the Ginger Pele

DubPerryman

tippspur wrote: »

You say Harry played VDV just for the sake of fitting him in,sorry but that's rubbish.Harry play him because he is a class player and a match winner and that's what he has proven to be for Spurs.

I stand by my comment. When Lennon was injured Harry often put VDV wide right, where he was useless, he provided the full-back with no cover and provided the midfield with no out ball. He narrowed the pitch and allowed weaker teams, who came to WHL with a compact defensive style, to get about us.

Obviously, when VDV played his preferred role (centrally) he worked wonders. Though, Kranjacar, Piennar or even Townsend would have been more of a threat wide right.

Ormus

DubPerryman wrote: »

I stand by my comment. When Lennon was injured Harry often put VDV wide right, where he was useless, he provided the full-back with no cover and provided the midfield with no out ball. He narrowed the pitch and allowed weaker teams, who came to WHL with a compact defensive style, to get about us.

Obviously, when VDV played his preferred role (centrally) he worked wonders. Though, Kranjacar, Piennar or even Townsend would have been more of a threat wide right.

Yep spot on, VdV is a class act and a match winner but he is slow and tires easily and is quite often a passenger for us in high tempo games. He is completely unsuited to playing out wide. His only position is in behind the striker. It's tough for Adebayor to play up top on his own when his main support is a guy who won't be making many supporting runs.

If he left we would sorely miss his vision and his ability to score goals and dig us out of tight situations. But I think we would benefit in other ways.

Leinstersqspur

Tottenham playmaker Rafael van der Vaart has been linked with leaving White Hart Lane but Villas-Boas insists he wants to keep the Dutch international.

"With Van der Vaart, at the moment I am absolutely counting on him," he said.

Hatch99

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

When fit, Vdv is an world class footballer,

Mate, Messi and Ronaldo are world class, VDV is far from it.

Hatch99

yiddo59 wrote: »

Sense! VDV is a top player and a joy to watch.

PS It's a mark of how much we've moved on that we're questioning the value of VDV not so long ago we'd be arguing about Rasiak or the Ginger Pele

Yes, he's a very good player, but if it means the team suffering, then I wouldn't have em. No point in having a lovely player who does some fancy stuff, but then never tracks back, the full back gets murdered and we conceed (the game has moved on since Ginola )

P.S. That's the problem with us football fans, any tiny hint of success (not that we have had any) and we get very fussy.