The Official Boxing at London Olympics Superthread - July 28-August 12

walshb

Kaizer Sosa wrote: »

He seems very flat footed and lumbering. If he turned pro, he'd be in with serious operators like Sergio Martinez who would have no problems whatsoever with him.

BTW, Falcao is a LHW. Martinez would not be any threat to him at pro. They wouldn't be meeting.

Losing right now to the Russian.

Edit: His brother is a MW and thru to the final.

donfers

Fizman wrote: »

Listening to Kahn on BBC a while ago. He knows Nevin, and has roomed with Campbell for years. Rather boldly said "Campbell is the more skillful fighter, has the better technique and is the all-round better boxer".

I hope he eats his words. I think he will have to, as I fancy Nevin.

Khan knows very little about amateur boxing, the BBC have been using him and really he his knowledge is severely lacking, it's cliche after cliche and he doesn't seem to know a lot about non team gb fighters - if he said that about Campbell then that's good news as far as I'm concerned because he doesn't seem to know a lot

supersean1999

well done to the 3 lads especially nevin, the cuban gave conlon a bit of a lesson really, stood beside him for first 2 mins felt him out, and imo the cuban had another gear to be honest, ill follow his career for sure v v impressed,

Syferus

walshb wrote: »

Not sure what fight some of you guys were watching but I thought Conlon did exceptionally well. Lost, but not by them scores. The second rd I thought Conlon won. Cuban getting scores for sticking his hand out. He is class. But Conlon was right with him all the way. Exceptional.

Thought the first was quite even and certainly not a three point round for Rameirz. I was sure Conlon narrowed the score in the second as well, after that Conlon had to barrel forward and it was silly season, not much can be read into the last round. Rameirz obviously a powerful puncher though, and he probably scored more points on body shots in that fight than I've seen in any other at these Olympics.

I know Rameirz is actually younger than him but Conlon is still a baby and a damn classy boxer even now. Very impressed by him this year and with four more years experience and a bit more power he has every chance of being where John Joe Nevin is now. The JJN script seem like an almost perfect route to follow for Conlon.

AllGunsBlazing

The right fighter definitely won the contest but I thought the first round margin was a little harsh on Conlan.

From my perspective I thought he started the first and second rounds brightly, but was undone by a sloppy last 60 seconds in both. He looked physically shattered in the third.

supersean1999

walshb wrote: »

Not sure what fight some of you guys were watching but I thought Conlon did exceptionally well. Lost, but not by them scores. The second rd I thought Conlon won. Cuban getting scores for sticking his hand out. He is class. But Conlon was right with him all the way. Exceptional.

id suggest you watch it again, a clear win for the cuban, and no disgrace in that,

Jayob10

What ye reckon would Joe have taken any of these lads?

livEwirE

Anyone know what time JohnJoe is fighting tomorrow please?

gene_tunney

donfers wrote: »

Khan knows very little about amateur boxing, the BBC have been using him and really he his knowledge is severely lacking, it's cliche after cliche and he doesn't seem to know a lot about non team gb fighters - if he said that about Campbell then that's good news as far as I'm concerned because he doesn't seem to know a lot

Agreed, nor does he have a clue about pro boxing. I've noticed a lot among pro boxers though, it's a funny one. Very few seem to know anything about boxing. Even Mayweather, who has an amazing ring IQ, the best of his generation, doesn't seem to understand much about the sport. Even tactically, the amazing adjustments he makes don't seem to be conscious efforts - rather they are based on his boxing instinct which has been built up over thousands of rounds in the ring.

Mike Tyson seems to be an exception, he studied many styles extensively under his tutelage with Cus D'amato. Train in the morning, watch fight videos in the evening. What a life!

Hawk Wing 2

Hard luck Micheal Conlan, this cuban is something else, only 18 years of age!! some skills

Hawk Wing 2

livEwirE wrote: »

Anyone know what time JohnJoe is fighting tomorrow please?

20:45 asfaik

themandan6611

if nevin wins will it be a bigger achievement than Katie's gold ?

the_real_lamp

themandan6611 wrote: »

if nevin wins will it be a bigger achievement than Katie's gold ?

No equal. Don't know why people have make one better than the other.

efb

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/2012/medals/sports/boxing

We are top (for now!)

supersean1999

gene_tunney wrote: »

Agreed, nor does he have a clue about pro boxing. I've noticed a lot among pro boxers though, it's a funny one. Very few seem to know anything about boxing. Even Mayweather, who has an amazing ring IQ, the best of his generation, doesn't seem to understand much about the sport. Even tactically, the amazing adjustments he makes don't seem to be conscious efforts - rather they are based on his boxing instinct which has been built up over thousands of rounds in the ring.

Mike Tyson seems to be an exception, he studied many styles extensively under his tutelage with Cus D'amato. Train in the morning, watch fight videos in the evening. What a life!

i cant understand that post, how can you have amazing ring iQ and not understand boxing, is a great fighter not one who does things naturally without confusing himself, anyway i cant reply tonight ,be good

Syferus

themandan6611 wrote: »

if nevin wins will it be a bigger achievement than Katie's gold ?

It would depend on how you measure it. Certainly plenty of competition at 56kgs but the main thing would be JJ wouldn't be the overwhelming favourite going into the tournament. We were expecting Katie to do the business, we we would have been expecting JJ to get to the business end and then see how he was going.

I can't see the sheer out-pouring of affection Katie got even if JJ won but then Katie has been at the heart of the nation's affections for many years now.

It would be beyond special if we brought home two Olympic champion boxers and both would deserve ever plaudit sent their way.

We've developed a serious pedigree in amateur boxing, other countries now are wary when draws throw up Irish boxers and that's a hugely satisfying and prideful fact for the sport and the country at large.

walshb

Great fight at SHW. I think Camarrelle got that.

walshb

Big upset. Camarelle beats the world number 1 and reigning WC. Joshua can smell gold now.

Conlan met a classy Cuban tonight and there is no shame in defeat. He done us proud and will learn loads for Rio. Well done Michael.

efb

Joshua looks terribly noviecy to me- some good punches landed, but alot of swings and misses

titan18

walshb wrote: »

Big upset. Camarelle beats the world number 1 and reigning WC. Joshua can smell gold now.

I wouldn't say big upset, he's the reigning Olympic Champion. Joshua doesn't look great from what I've seen. He should be out, Savon outclassed him in the first fight

efb

God I hate SH boxing

efb

Joshua to fight for Gold.

gene_tunney

Dychko frustrated me there. 90% of Joshua's coring shots were jabs. All Dychko had to do was keep his right hand up.

barney4001

That shuffling could well have cost nevin very dear he needs to cut that out at this level

Kaizer Sosa

walshb wrote: »

BTW, Falcao is a LHW. Martinez would not be any threat to him at pro. They wouldn't be meeting.

Losing right now to the Russian.

Edit: His brother is a MW and thru to the final.

Yeah, it was the brother at MW I was talking about. Seems massive for a MW so I was anticipating a move to Super MW for him when I wrote that.

Syferus

barney4001 wrote: »

That shuffling could well have cost nevin very dear he needs to cut that out at this level

He must have been seven ahead when he did it. Shouldn't be doing it but almost every boxer does, hell even Katie did at these Olympics. Certainly people seem to have over-reacted to it here.

Kaizer Sosa

Is there an upper weight limit in Olympic Super Heavy weight? I can't understand how the guys here are in such good shape when you see the fat messes that pollute the professional ranks but who train for much longer fights.

So it seems Vasyl Lomachenko has penned a professional deal, along with four other Ukrainian team mates, with AIBA to compete in the Pro Boxing League. This is a huge disappointment to me as I was really looking forward to seeing him mix it with the best in the pro game and now I feel we'll never see him reach his full potential in the sport. He'll be tied up in these fights that no one ever gets to see for the next four years. I'm a big fan of Olympic boxing but to me (and I know lots will disagree), its a stepping stone to a professional career and sadly Lomachenko seems to have blown his shot at a real legacy.

Syferus

Kaizer Sosa wrote: »

Is there an upper weight limit in Olympic Super Heavy weight? I can't understand how the guys here are in such good shape when you see the fat messes that pollute the professional ranks but who train for much longer fights.

So it seems Vasyl Lomachenko has penned a professional deal, along with four other Ukrainian team mates, with AIBA to compete in the Pro Boxing League. This is a huge disappointment to me as I was really looking forward to seeing him mix it with the best in the pro game and now I feel we'll never see him reach his full potential in the sport. He'll be tied up in these fights that no one ever gets to see for the next four years. I'm a big fan of Olympic boxing but to me (and I know lots will disagree), its a stepping stone to a professional career and sadly Lomachenko seems to have blown his shot at a real legacy.

At some weights. I think even if Katie Taylor turned professional the greatest prestige in her game is in amateur boxing, not the pro ranks. Same goes for the flyweights in mens boxing.

paulgeog

AIBA Pro Boxing has signed up the great man Lomachenko and other top Ukrainian talents to its new Pro Boxing operation for next season. This would seem to be Katie Taylor's best option in turning pro, retaining her Olympic eligibility. I'd love to see JJ Nevin and Joe Ward in this as well. It'll be interesting to see how the IABA approach this venture.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/apnewsbreak-top-amateur-boxer-vasyl-lomachenko-signs-with-aibas-new-pro-boxing-venture/2012/08/10/ec3ec9da-e32d-11e1-89f7-76e23a982d06_story.html

Pudsy33

paulgeog wrote: »

AIBA Pro Boxing has signed up the great man Lomachenko and other top Ukrainian talents to its new Pro Boxing operation for next season. This would seem to be Katie Taylor's best option in turning pro, retaining her Olympic eligibility. I'd love to see JJ Nevin and Joe Ward in this as well. It'll be interesting to see how the IABA approach this venture.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/apnewsbreak-top-amateur-boxer-vasyl-lomachenko-signs-with-aibas-new-pro-boxing-venture/2012/08/10/ec3ec9da-e32d-11e1-89f7-76e23a982d06_story.html

How does this work? Can they only fight other pros within the system? Or are the, im theory, able to compete for the prestigious belts?

gene_tunney

paulgeog wrote: »

AIBA Pro Boxing has signed up the great man Lomachenko and other top Ukrainian talents to its new Pro Boxing operation for next season. This would seem to be Katie Taylor's best option in turning pro, retaining her Olympic eligibility. I'd love to see JJ Nevin and Joe Ward in this as well. It'll be interesting to see how the IABA approach this venture.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/apnewsbreak-top-amateur-boxer-vasyl-lomachenko-signs-with-aibas-new-pro-boxing-venture/2012/08/10/ec3ec9da-e32d-11e1-89f7-76e23a982d06_story.html

I'd hate to see Katie turn pro. Nevin is a beautiful boxer but perfect for the amateur game. In the pro's he'd be beaten everytime by a relentless pressure fighter like Valdez. Ward has a good pro style.

Syferus

gene_tunney wrote: »

I'd hate to see Katie turn pro. Nevin is a beautiful boxer but perfect for the amateur game. In the pro's he'd be beaten everytime by a relentless pressure fighter like Valdez. Ward has a good pro style.

I think if Katie was able to get into the AIBA pro system it'd be great for her.

Still boxing the people she knows well, but better money, cover and schedules and still eligible for the Olympics. It certainly would be a sweet hybrid between amateur and pro for someone in her shoes and she certainly has obvious box-office appeal for the AIBA.

The big question would be whether the AIBA is willing to invest in enough other female boxers to make it work rather than anything to do with Katie herself.

Jayob10

would be fantastic if the AIBA concept really took off and put an end to the farce that is the whole sanctioning body business.

Boxing could do with cutting out the middle men but Money talks though at the end of the day

Big Ears

Pudsy33 wrote: »

How does this work? Can they only fight other pros within the system? Or are the, im theory, able to compete for the prestigious belts?

Yes they can only fight each other, but there are no prestigious belts left in professional boxing anymore. Even the Ring magazine belt is somewhat tainted.

gene_tunney wrote: »

I'd hate to see Katie turn pro. Nevin is a beautiful boxer but perfect for the amateur game. In the pro's he'd be beaten everytime by a relentless pressure fighter like Valdez. Ward has a good pro style.

I'd like to see Katie turn pro from the point of view I think if she were managed right she could make serious money for 3-4 years, win a few pro titles further cementing her status as a great in the sport and then retire around 30 years of age to do whatever she wants with the rest of her life. She could also be used as a spearhead for a professional boxing comeback in the Republic, which has died a horrible death of late

I know some are worried if she were to face someone like Underwood in the pros, believe me there are ways of dealing with a women like Queen in situations like that.

Valdez is gonna be a superstar, an elite level fighter so he may be good enough to beat Nevin with pressure. But you can be sure he felt those right uppercuts Nevin was landing on him, and he was much more tired than Nevin was at the end, merely John Joe was still recovering from that bodyshot. Say maybe Valdez could get the better of him, but I reckon the vast majority of pressure fighters won't. I think JJN's performances in the WSB have shown what a good professional fighter he can be, and what a good spiteful body puncher he can be himself. I think he's got the ability to be one of the greatest professionals we've ever produced. People may feel he doesn't have a pro style, but guys like Rigondeaux or Mayweather didn't have typical pro styles either.

paulgeog wrote: »

AIBA Pro Boxing has signed up the great man Lomachenko and other top Ukrainian talents to its new Pro Boxing operation for next season. This would seem to be Katie Taylor's best option in turning pro, retaining her Olympic eligibility. I'd love to see JJ Nevin and Joe Ward in this as well. It'll be interesting to see how the IABA approach this venture.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/apnewsbreak-top-amateur-boxer-vasyl-lomachenko-signs-with-aibas-new-pro-boxing-venture/2012/08/10/ec3ec9da-e32d-11e1-89f7-76e23a982d06_story.html

Bollocks, I really was hoping to see Lomachenko enter the proper professional arena. He'll already be 28 by the time the next Olympics are done
As for Joe Ward, I'd like to see him stay amateur till Rio so joining this would be a good idea for him imo, let him earn some decent cash while maintaining amateur status (to a degree).

Jayob10 wrote: »

would be fantastic if the AIBA concept really took off and put an end to the farce that is the whole sanctioning body business.

Boxing could do with cutting out the middle men but Money talks though at the end of the day

It would......but of course that isn't going to happen. Instead we're going to get a load of professional fighter who can't fight any other professional fighters. In the process we're also going to have amateur boxing, turned into professional boxing over a shorter distance. Basically the concept was invented so Mr.Wu can grab more money for the AIBA and himself, not anything to do with saving boxing or improving the sport.
With top promotional companies already stopping fights between themselves and other promoters this is just going to make things worse.

It'll also make a mockery of amateur boxing aswell. Anyone think any of the actual amateur fighters are gonna be winning the next Olympics competing with these professionals ?, I certainly don't. Sure these guys might be novice professionals pretty soon, but 4 years as a pro, when the next Olympics is likely to be professional fights conducted over 3 rounds is only going to suit the men paid to do it for a living.



Now let's get to the boxing from earlier today and some positives. Paddy Barnes, what an amazing performance, he really took it to Zou in that last round and gave him a challenge he'll never forget. Was gutted for the lad, but I thought the scoring was about right, I had it a draw so can't complain about the countback not going our way. Tis a shame but I never remember us winning on countback in a major fight, Paddy today, JJN at World's last year, JJJ vs Diaz in Beijing, Andy Lee in Athens....it just always seems to go against us.

Nevin, absolutely amazing, I'm actually gonna keep it very short about him because if I start I won't stop and I'll be here writing till morning. Just to say if he wins tomorrow I think he's our greatest ever amateur without questions and I believe he has the potential to be our greatest ever pro.
I think he beats Campbell tomorrow.

Conlon, showed once again what a good little fighter he is, outclassed by a terrific young fighter but no shame in that. I think he'd made a brilliant professional, although his brothers experience in the pro game may have slightly put him off that for now. Jamie's not been afforded the chances he really deserves due to promoters preferring to push the Liverpool Flyweights in the British scene. It's a sad state of affairs, but even with his Olympic bronze you fear the same could happen to Michael.






*little note to make about watching Paddy and JJN's fight, I was in the silent area of the library with my earphones in and thought I was quiet as a mouse without making a sound. Turns out I was roaring my head off !, as a friend informed me, by god can this sport stir emotions in people. So proud of our lads.

moneyman

+1 on Nevin. He's the most technically gifted boxer we've produced in a long time. He's like one of those boxers you hate Irish lads coming up against, ie. he's elusive, extremely difficult to hit, fast, accurate and very intelligent. This isn't meant in a derogatory way at all as I'm thrilled with the performances of Barnes and Conlan, who can be hugely proud of themselves, but today they had to look to beat the more talented boxers by applying pressure rather than superior technical ability. With Nevin, it's the other way around, he's nearly always the more talented one and it's the opposition who have to pressure and leave themselves open.

I hope that came out right as it's not a criticism of Barnes or Conlan at all. Just a glowing endorsement of Nevin who I'm a massive fan of. So proud of our boxers, they're all immensely talented and a credit to the coaching that goes into amateur boxing in this country.

Syferus

Honestly I see plenty of Nevin in Conlon, that kid has the speed and raw talent to be moulded into a special fighter. No one better than Billy Walsh to do that.

Paddy fought the single most awe-inspiring fight of these Olympics for me yesterday, the pressure he exerted and the sheer determination he showed against Zou will live long in the memory. We fetish the technical aspects of boxing so much but sometimes it's something as simple as fighting spirit that makes something or someone special.

It's hard to question that this is the most restorative and enjoyable Olympics in living memory and it's been the boxers that have been centre stage.

corny

walshb wrote: »

Not sure what fight some of you guys were watching but I thought Conlon did exceptionally well. Lost, but not by them scores. The second rd I thought Conlon won. Cuban getting scores for sticking his hand out. He is class. But Conlon was right with him all the way. Exceptional.

Just watched the fight after successfully avoiding the result.

The Cubans strength really took my eye, especially for an 18 year old, but for large parts of rounds 1 and 2 he did nothing but stand there with his guard up. I had him marginally ahead entering the final round and maybe 2 or 3 ahead by the end.

Disappointing, I thought Conlon made it easy for him. The Cuban wanted him to take the initiative and stand in the middle of ring trading punches.

YouTookMyName

Why does every thread descend into a pro discussion.

zweton

What time is JJ fighting?

walshb

I just caught a tragic headline there. Three brothers' killed in road crash in Mullingar. I really hope John Joe's team shield him from this news until after his bout. haven't read up o it yet but a possibility that the lads were known to John Joe, or likely out celebrating John's semi final win.

walshb

zweton wrote: »

What time is JJ fighting?

2045 hrs

The_Kew_Tour

So you guys are confident Nevin will win?

Im going to say 3 point victory to Nevin.

DDC1990

walshb wrote: »

I just caught a tragic headline there. Three brothers' killed in road crash in Mullingar. I really hope John Joe's team shield him from this news until after his bout. haven't read up o it yet but a possibility that the lads were known to John Joe, or likely out celebrating John's semi final win.

Three Brothers were from Portarlington, and Killed near Tullamore, nothing to do with Mullingar, or John Joe more then likely.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0811/investigation-continues-into-deadly-offaly-crash.html

Its probably not good to be spreading rumours like that. Don't mean to have a go at you, but its a little insensative.

corny

I've a sizeable sum (well for me anyway) on JJ to win all three rounds. 6 to 1.

Librium

corny wrote: »

I've a sizeable sum (well for me anyway) on JJ to win all three rounds. 6 to 1.

at least one round wil be a draw

walshb

DDC1990 wrote: »

Three Brothers were from Portarlington, and Killed near Tullamore, nothing to do with Mullingar, or John Joe more then likely.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0811/investigation-continues-into-deadly-offaly-crash.html

Its probably not good to be spreading rumours like that. Don't mean to have a go at you, but its a little insensative.

Spreading rumours? I just happened to make a comment. I never said who they were or that JJN knew them. I said it was tragic and that IF he did know them that it could affect the lad. I read Mullingar. That was incorrect now it seems. End of!

Librium

walshb wrote: »

DDC1990 wrote: »

Three Brothers were from Portarlington, and Killed near Tullamore, nothing to do with Mullingar, or John Joe more then likely.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0811/investigation-continues-into-deadly-offaly-crash.html

Its probably not good to be spreading rumours like that. Don't mean to have a go at you, but its a little insensative.

Spreading rumours? I just happened to make a comment. I never said who they were or that JJN knew them. I said it was tragic and that IF he did know them that it could affect the lad. I read Mullingar. That was incorrect now it seems. End of!

Don't mind him bren he is obviously a fuss pot

efb

walshb wrote: »

Spreading rumours? I just happened to make a comment. I never said who they were or that JJN knew them. I said it was tragic and that IF he did know them that it could affect the lad. I read Mullingar. That was incorrect now it seems. End of!

The crash happened just up from me. RIP to those involved.

gene_tunney

Syferus wrote: »

Honestly I see plenty of Nevin in Conlon, that kid has the speed and raw talent to be moulded into a special fighter. No one better than Billy Walsh to do that.

Paddy fought the single most awe-inspiring fight of these Olympics for me yesterday, the pressure he exerted and the sheer determination he showed against Zou will live long in the memory. We fetish the technical aspects of boxing so much but sometimes it's something as simple as fighting spirit that makes something or someone special.

It's hard to question that this is the most restorative and enjoyable Olympics in living memory and it's been the boxers that have been centre stage.

I disagree. Conlan just doesn't have Nevin's ring IQ, which can't be taught, nor the physical skills to compensate for it. That said, he's still a great boxer in his own right and if he's around for the next Olympics I'm sure he'll be a big medal hope as well.

EDIT: also meant to say earlier although I said Nevin has an amateur style I still want to see him turn pro and believe he can achieve if he does.