Will Ireland ever improve?

BraziliaNZ

With the mess that the country is in now financially, and socially (See Saturday in the Phoenix Park), do you think this country is actively progressive in it's nature? Evolving? Or just stuck in the same rut, a backwater always stuck behind the rest of the developed world. Our public transport is awful, same with healthcare, corruption is rife...

To be blunt... I sometimes cringe at how awful a country it is when reading newspapers online. I look around me here at the news here in the UK, science, politics, media and see a different world. Not perfect but a vast improvement on what Ireland does in almost every aspect, despite both countries having similar opportunities. The pig-ignorant Irish and their 'ah sure its just a bit of craic' and spineless 'its not my job, someone else will do it' mentality to every thing disgusts me and its something that filters through to every single facet of Irish society.

Read a story in any of those newspapers about corruption etc at the highest levels and you'll find half the commenters trying to crack wise. The hilarity. It's far easier to crack a crap pun than sum the intellect to ask a question or write to your local TD. It's the spineless insecure trait that really does it.

Even the drunks who were making a show of us on the world stage with their 'win or lose we're here for the booze' mentality at the euros. They're not fans. They're just drunken Paddies who are so insecure about losing or asking serious questions as to why we lost that they need to hide behind 'ah sure we're here for the craic and we're the best fans in the world' rubbish.

In short I'm in the Roy Keane mentality camp when it comes to that.

Bring on the smart comments please - Yes I did shut the door behind me, I'm a west brit, etc etc. I just want to know if there will ever be any hope. Thanks for reading

mikom

Yes we are stuck in a rut, but you can leave the following horseshite out........

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

The pig-ignorant Irish

Rather be a pig than a cock.

golden lane

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

With the mess that the country is in now financially, and socially (See Saturday in the Phoenix Park), do you think this country is actively progressive in it's nature? Evolving? Or just stuck in the same rut, a backwater always stuck behind the rest of the developed world. Our public transport is awful, same with healthcare, corruption is rife...

To be blunt... I sometimes cringe at how awful a country it is when reading newspapers online. I look around me here at the news here in the UK, science, politics, media and see a different world. Not perfect but a vast improvement on what Ireland does in almost every aspect, despite both countries having similar opportunities. The pig-ignorant Irish and their 'ah sure its just a bit of craic' and spineless 'its not my job, someone else will do it' mentality to every thing disgusts me and its something that filters through to every single facet of Irish society.

Read a story in any of those newspapers about corruption etc at the highest levels and you'll find half the commenters trying to crack wise. The hilarity. It's far easier to crack a crap pun than sum the intellect to ask a question or write to your local TD. It's the spineless insecure trait that really does it.

Even the drunks who were making a show of us on the world stage with their 'win or lose we're here for the booze' mentality at the euros. They're not fans. They're just drunken Paddies who are so insecure about losing or asking serious questions as to why we lost that they need to hide behind 'ah sure we're here for the craic and we're the best fans in the world' rubbish.

In short I'm in the Roy Keane mentality camp when it comes to that.

Bring on the smart comments please - Yes I did shut the door behind me, I'm a west brit, etc etc. I just want to know if there will ever be any hope. Thanks for reading

hope you get free vallium....

BraziliaNZ

golden lane wrote: »

hope you get free vallium....

I did yes from the NHS for back problems.

chin_grin

With recent events I'm more embarrassed to stand up and say "I'm Irish" than ever.

Actually I was never that patriotic to begin with so it doesn't bother me.

golden lane

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I did yes from the NHS for back problems.

i would guess..that is the least of your problems....

ejmaztec

Ireland is sh1t at creating jobs and sh1t at getting things done quickly. Apart from those little problems, it's no better or worse than any other developed country.

ancapailldorcha

Maybe when the government decides to start plugging holes the country's life blood is gushing out off.

paddyandy

People understand shortage of money but under the surface we have a lack of attention to maintaining values with us and that's just as important but gets' little attention .Every Election has been about Money only Money .So there it is .Things got worse in the Tiger years .Crime went soaring while cutbacks to the gardai went on at the same time .That's the Nation we are !!!!!!

Brussels Sprout

Impressive rant OP and a fair bit of truth in it unfortunately. When I was reading through it I remembered a story: A mate of mine was working in a company in Denmark a few years ago and he told me the following anecdote:

In the canteen you collected your food from the staff serving at the hot counter and then you went through a self service check out where you keyed in your food and then swiped a card which you had to top up with cash. Ostensibly staff would do spot checks to see if your receipt matched what was on your plate but in reality everyone threw their receipts straight into the bin that was next to the check-out machine.

My buddy remarked to one of the Danes how this system wouldn't work in Ireland because people would take advantage of it. "taking three sausages but only paying for two, not keying in the carrots etc". The Dane was horrified: "You mean, they would steal the food?", to which my friend replied "Well, the thing is they wouldn't actually see it that way...."

Sodden Pussy

Worked in UK and USA to management level. Did business on major contract (2 mill +) level with private businesses and Gov. Depts in both countries. But here.... its a joke. This administration (or previous) cannot run a bath let alone a country. Too much self interest on a political level. Advise to 18 year olds...Get the hell out of here and don't EVER look back. This state will never change no matter who is elected.

chin_grin

Sodden Pussy wrote: »

Worked in UK and USA to management level. Did business on major contract (2 mill +) level with private businesses and Gov. Depts in both countries. But here.... its a joke. This administration (or previous) cannot run a bath let alone a country. Too much self interest on a political level. Advise to 18 year olds...Get the hell out of here and don't EVER look back. This state will never change no matter who is elected.

Is someone reading Fifty Shades of Grey to come up with that username? :pac:

Shryke

You'll get nothing but abuse here but I feel the same in a lot of ways. The same people that will jump down your throat wrapped in the Irish flag will have complained about all of the things you have said.

Funnily enough I remember listening to Roy Keane on the radio and I thought he made perfect sense and chose his words very well so as not to offend. A bit of a gent about it if anything. And look what happens to the guy.

ejmaztec

chin_grin wrote: »

Is someone reading Fifty Shades of Grey to come up with that username? :pac:

Probably a cat-hater.

Diapason

Will Ireland ever improve? Yes.

The process is well underway if you look at it in the longer-term, despite all the recent problems. The Ireland of today is far better than the Ireland of my parents' era in so many ways. Yes there's a recession on, yes there are lots of problems, and yes there are a few aspects of the Irish character that you might change, but this stuff doesn't happen overnight. Education will get us there in the end.

andy1249

I guess most on here are young , too young to remember the 80's in any case.

The country was a mess then , with Sky high interest rates to boot.
Getting a job was a delusional fantasy held by most.

The country pulled out of it then , we had about 10-15 good years , it will pull out of it again , but you need a determined bulldog like Noonan running things , not some camera shy fairy like Kenny if that's going to happen.

mikom

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

The Dane was horrified: "You mean, they would steal the food?", to which my friend replied "Well, the thing is they wouldn't actually see it that way...."

He should have reminded him about the vikings........

golden lane

Diapason wrote: »

Will Ireland ever improve? Yes.

The process is well underway if you look at it in the longer-term, despite all the recent problems. The Ireland of today is far better than the Ireland of my parents' era in so many ways. Yes there's a recession on, yes there are lots of problems, and yes there are a few aspects of the Irish character that you might change, but this stuff doesn't happen overnight. Education will get us there in the end.

well said....

BraziliaNZ

Diapason wrote: »

Will Ireland ever improve? Yes.

The process is well underway if you look at it in the longer-term, despite all the recent problems. The Ireland of today is far better than the Ireland of my parents' era in so many ways. Yes there's a recession on, yes there are lots of problems, and yes there are a few aspects of the Irish character that you might change, but this stuff doesn't happen overnight. Education will get us there in the end.

Has it improved? So poor people on the dole have xboxes and sky TV these days, which isn't really an improvement, but they are completely out of touch with everything and seem to be very angry. Were people getting beaten to death by teenagers or stabbed in the head with screwdrivers back then? Morals and decency and community are dead. Our leaders have shown us the way, to take all you can for yourself and not to care about anyone else.

WIZE

Ireland is much better now

During the boom everyone got lost is the hype which bit them in the ass now

People should use this opportunity so they can plan their futures wih what they have rather then what they think they have

christmas2012

yeah it was a good rant,have to agree with it,ireland as far as most govt departments go(including health and transport)are diabolical,we still have awful pricing when it comes to 2 hour train journeys,we have disused rails all over ireland that need to be joined up to make every county and city in ireland with a rail service,there should be a public transport system like the metro,or the london tube or the rails all around every city and shire in england,it is a disgrace.
And the healthcare system is a shambles just this week i read that recently retired workers were being rehired?!

prinz

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post until I got to..

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Even the drunks who were making a show of us on the world stage with their 'win or lose we're here for the booze' mentality at the euros. They're not fans. They're just drunken Paddies who are so insecure about losing or asking serious questions as to why we lost that they need to hide behind 'ah sure we're here for the craic and we're the best fans in the world' rubbish.

No, they didn't make a show of us anything but.:mad: The fans were fantastic. I have family and friends in a number of countries abroad and received literally dozens of messages about the conduct of the Irish fans, from the US, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Korea.......... Seeing the large stand on O'Connell Street in Dublin from the city of Poznan to the Irish fans is on of the few things I have felt hugely proud for Ireland in the last few years.

I'd rather be known as the fans who sang their hearts out even when the team were 4-0 down, than be known as the fans who battered stewards black and blue inside some of the stadia, and engaged in street fights and hooliganism any day of the week.

mikom

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Has it improved? So poor people on the dole have xboxes and sky TV these days, which isn't really an improvement, but they are completely out of touch with everything and seem to be very angry. Were people getting beaten to death by teenagers or stabbed in the head with screwdrivers back then? Morals and decency and community are dead. Our leaders have shown us the way, to take all you can for yourself and not to care about anyone else.

Yep......

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).

BraziliaNZ

I was too young in the 80s to be aware of this stuff - was there a massive heroin problem then? Was Dublin city centre crawling with junkies? Were there as many drunks on the streets on a Saturday night? Was the country full of empty ghost estates? Were beauty spots polluted with one off housing due to brown envelopes?
Has it really improved?

beeroclock

OP any suggestions on how we could improve?

I think its a great place to live in

"Those who cross the seas change their skies not their minds" - Voltaire

davet82

if there were a boards.uk i'm sure they're would be a similar rant...

BraziliaNZ

prinz wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post until I got to..



No, they didn't make a show of us anything but.:mad: The fans were fantastic. I have family and friends in a number of countries abroad and received literally dozens of messages about the conduct of the Irish fans, from the US, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Korea.......... Seeing the large stand on O'Connell Street in Dublin from the city of Poznan to the Irish fans is on of the few things I have felt hugely proud for Ireland in the last few years.

I'd rather be known as the fans who sang their hearts out even when the team were 4-0 down, than be known as the fans who battered stewards black and blue inside some of the stadia, and engaged in street fights and hooliganism any day of the week.

Fair enough I just thought it was typical mentality, as long as we can get p*ssed we don't care how the team did. Looked like a big stag do to me. I kind of thought it summed up the Irish attitude to everything. Let's bring in massive austherity measures. We don't protest like the Greeks or Spanish, we go to the pub and complain to our mates.
I take your point but maybe I shouldn't have mentioned football, don't want it to head down that route.

ejmaztec

ejmaztec wrote: »

Ireland is sh1t at creating jobs and sh1t at getting things done quickly. Apart from those little problems, it's no better or worse than any other developed country.

... and here's a prime example showing a fucking balls of a job that's been made by this government and the last one, where there's been years of fannying about, and the feckin fannying is still continuing. This is typical of the way the beaurocrats operate in this country, and have been since the start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_LNG

..and here's the lates news showing the current state of the big joke:


http://www.kerryman.ie/news/locals-left-reeling-as-shannon-lng-project-thrown-into-doubt-3163304.html

Locals left reeling as Shannon LNG project thrown into doubt

PEOPLE on the landbank are deeply angry this week following a decision that has thrown the entire future of the Shannon LNG project into doubt.

Promising a total investment of over €500 million and hundreds of jobs in its construction phase, it was seen as a lifeline by the people of Ballylongford and Tarbert who have watched helplessly in recent years as the young of both parishes emigrated in the face of the recession.

This week's decision by the energy regulator (CER) means there will be no movement on the gas plant until at least 2015 if it is to go ahead at all at this stage.

hooradiation

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Even the drunks who were making a show of us on the world stage with their 'win or lose we're here for the booze' mentality at the euros. They're not fans. They're just drunken Paddies who are so insecure about losing or asking serious questions as to why we lost that they need to hide behind 'ah sure we're here for the craic and we're the best fans in the world' rubbish.

In short I'm in the Roy Keane mentality camp when it comes to that.

People having fun? NOT ON BraziliaNZ WATCH!

SocSocPol

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Has it improved? So poor people on the dole have xboxes and sky TV these days, which isn't really an improvement, but they are completely out of touch with everything and seem to be very angry. Were people getting beaten to death by teenagers or stabbed in the head with screwdrivers back then? Morals and decency and community are dead. Our leaders have shown us the way, to take all you can for yourself and not to care about anyone else.

Yea bring back the good old days when our kids were routinely sexually and physically abused by priests and nuns,when contraception was illegal, when women were routinely butched in our church hospitals, oh how I long for those great days again:rolleyes:

BraziliaNZ

beeroclock wrote: »

OP any suggestions on how we could improve?

I think its a great place to live in

"Those who cross the seas change their skies not their minds" - Voltaire

Not really, I'm not a visionary or anything like that and don't the motivation for politics. I did try at home though, organised some street cleaning when I was renting a flat as the place was a disgrace from the schoolkids who dumped their lunch litter there eveyday. 3 people showed up.

golden lane

davet82 wrote: »

if there were a boards.uk i'm sure they're would be a similar rant...

nooooooooooooo.......people in the uk are too busy getting on with their life.....lol

Fizman

As soon as we switch from 4-4-2 we should see some progress.

BraziliaNZ

SocSocPol wrote: »

Yea bring back the good old days when our kids were routinely sexually and physically abused by priests and nuns,when contraception was illegal, when women were routinely butched in our church hospitals, oh how I long for those great days again:rolleyes:

So the country is great now because we got rid of endemic sexual abuse in our society. The fact that it went on so long says a lot about us as a people.

davet82

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

We don't protest like the Greeks or Spanish, we go to the pub and complain to our mates.

did them fcuk all good wrecking the place though...

i actually agree with alot of your rant but like you and everyone else, we're all wondering what can you do...

so after all this thinking you've made me do, i've an awful thirst on me, lets go for a pint

I am pie

Which country do you think has more social problems?

Ireland - phoenix park etc or the UK - multi-city riots on behalf of large disenfranchised section of society?

Do you really believe the relationship with alcohol in either country is signficantly different ?

UK actually tops the binge drinking league table. Sadly, after Finland, we're 3rd.

I get that Ireland has problems, but you're really lacking in any kind of perspective if you think UK society what we should aspire too !

RobbieTheRobber

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I was too young in the 80s to be aware of this stuff - was there a massive heroin problem then? Was Dublin city centre crawling with junkies? Were there as many drunks on the streets on a Saturday night? Was the country full of empty ghost estates? Were beauty spots polluted with one off housing due to brown envelopes?
Has it really improved?

Yes heroin was a major problem in dublin in the 1980's
http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/5060/1/321-0263.pdf

For a variety of reasons the Dublin study had, in the event, to be confined to the
original North Central Dublin area. The definitive 1982-83 prevalence of heroin abuse in
that area among those aged 15-24 was found to be 10%; but in those aged 15-19 it was
12%, and among females aged 15-19 it was 13%. These Irish prevalence figures are in
some respects slightly better, in other respects a good deal worse, than equivalent 1970
figures for New York black ghettos. In particular, the figures for females aged 15-19 and
aged 20-24 were markedly worse.

Diapason

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

So the country is great now because we got rid of endemic sexual abuse in our society. The fact that it went on so long says a lot about us as a people.

That's serious glass half empty stuff. So even if we make the country a Utopian ideal, we'll still be **** because it took us too long to do it?

BraziliaNZ

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I was too young in the 80s to be aware of this stuff - was there a massive heroin problem then? Was Dublin city centre crawling with junkies? Were there as many drunks on the streets on a Saturday night? Was the country full of empty ghost estates? Were beauty spots polluted with one off housing due to brown envelopes?
Has it really improved?

Heroin was a huge issues, the country was pretty much as bad as now for one-off housing, there were no ghost estates but we hadn't had any prosperity to build any in.

BraziliaNZ

I am pie wrote: »

Which country do you think has more social problems?

Ireland - phoenix park etc or the UK - multi-city riots on behalf of large disenfranchised section of society?

Do you really believe the relationship with alcohol in either country is signficantly different ?

UK actually tops the binge drinking league table. Sadly, after Finland, we're 3rd.

I get that Ireland has problems, but you're really lacking in any kind of perspective if you think UK society what we should aspire too !

In fairness to London they have a lot to deal with here, massive influx of foreigners that you really have to see to believe, racial tensions are dealt with quite well usually.
Have you been to Finland? They may drink a lot but the country runs very well.

gobnaitolunacy

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Has it improved? So poor people on the dole have xboxes and sky TV these days, which isn't really an improvement, but they are completely out of touch with everything and seem to be very angry. Were people getting beaten to death by teenagers or stabbed in the head with screwdrivers back then? Morals and decency and community are dead. Our leaders have shown us the way, to take all you can for yourself and not to care about anyone else.

The morals and decency you speak of were a veneer over all the then hidden abuse inflicted by both state and religious. Sure, you could walk back from the pub etc at night and be 99.99% sure nothing was going to happen to you, but a lot of sh*t went on behind closed doors that we'll probably never find out about.

There were riots in '84 around a concert in Slane, so getting bate about the head is nothing new, more and freely available drink and drugs so it's got more vicious than a simple fisticuffs, it's just there's no fear of the rule of law with the 'disadvantaged' ...they got nothing to lose.

We have improved materially, that's about all.

BraziliaNZ

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Yes heroin was a major problem in dublin in the 1980's
http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/5060/1/321-0263.pdf

I know it was a problem but I don't think the city was crawling with them the way it is now

Sea Filly

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Impressive rant OP and a fair bit of truth in it unfortunately. When I was reading through it I remembered a story: A mate of mine was working in a company in Denmark a few years ago and he told me the following anecdote:

In the canteen you collected your food from the staff serving at the hot counter and then you went through a self service check out where you keyed in your food and then swiped a card which you had to top up with cash. Ostensibly staff would do spot checks to see if your receipt matched what was on your plate but in reality everyone threw their receipts straight into the bin that was next to the check-out machine.

My buddy remarked to one of the Danes how this system wouldn't work in Ireland because people would take advantage of it. "taking three sausages but only paying for two, not keying in the carrots etc". The Dane was horrified: "You mean, they would steal the food?", to which my friend replied "Well, the thing is they wouldn't actually see it that way...."

I wouldn't do that. Would you?

Sea Filly

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Has it improved?

Yes.

golden lane

I am pie wrote: »

Which country do you think has more social problems?

Ireland - phoenix park etc or the UK - multi-city riots on behalf of large disenfranchised section of society?

Do you really believe the relationship with alcohol in either country is signficantly different ?

UK actually tops the binge drinking league table. Sadly, after Finland, we're 3rd.

I get that Ireland has problems, but you're really lacking in any kind of perspective if you think UK society what we should aspire too !

not wise to compare the uk with ireland...4 million.....60 million....

cannot be compared.....and stop reading uk newspapers.......if you want real news......robbing tellys is not being disinfranchised....

RobbieTheRobber

I am pie wrote: »

Which country do you think has more social problems?

Ireland - phoenix park etc or the UK - multi-city riots on behalf of large disenfranchised section of society?

Do you really believe the relationship with alcohol in either country is signficantly different ?

UK actually tops the binge drinking league table. Sadly, after Finland, we're 3rd.

I get that Ireland has problems, but you're really lacking in any kind of perspective if you think UK society what we should aspire too !

While we are talking about Riots what have those oh so lovely french done to deal with the paris ghettos.
Have the factors behind the 2005 three week riots been fixed?
http://riotsfrance.ssrc.org/

BraziliaNZ

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

In fairness to London they have a lot to deal with here, massive influx of foreigners that you really have to see to believe, racial tensions are dealt with quite well usually.
Have you been to Finland? They may drink a lot but the country runs very well.

One in 6 of the people in Ireland were born abroad. I don't think any country has as high a proportion of its population foreign-born and we seem to be handling it.

I am pie

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Fair enough I just thought it was typical mentality, as long as we can get p*ssed we don't care how the team did. Looked like a big stag do to me. I kind of thought it summed up the Irish attitude to everything. Let's bring in massive austherity measures. We don't protest like the Greeks or Spanish, we go to the pub and complain to our mates.
I take your point but maybe I shouldn't have mentioned football, don't want it to head down that route.

Sorry people aren't confirming to your idea of what the correct course of action is for this economic crisis.

The Spanish have brought in austerity measures, more severe than us. Passed last week. The people voted for these measures, Rajoy stood for these cutbacks, got elected and has implemented them. Pretty straightforward?

We're a small country of 4 million people, perhaps...you know, our protests are smaller whilst still including the same small percentage of the overall populace.

KerranJast

By pretty much every measure Ireland is still a better place to be today than at anytime bar the early 2000s.

I'm 28 and even in the early to mid 90s things were a lot grimmer than now. Recycling wallpaper for school book covers, hand me down clothes, the most exotic summer holiday being Wexford and we were reasonably well off at the time relatively speaking.

Sea Filly

christmas2012 wrote: »

we still have awful pricing when it comes to 2 hour train journeys,we have disused rails all over ireland that need to be joined up to make every county and city in ireland with a rail service,

We don't have the population for this.

hooradiation

KerranJast wrote: »

By pretty much every measure Ireland is still a better place to be today than at anytime bar the early 2000s.

I'm 28 and even in the early to mid 90s things were a lot grimmer than now. Recycling wallpaper for school book covers, hand me down clothes, the most exotic summer holiday being Wexford and we were reasonably well off at the time relatively speaking.

Ohhh, lah-de-dah Mr Moneybags with your trips to "Wexford"!