Will Ireland ever improve?

BraziliaNZ

I am pie wrote: »

He's sorry he mentioned the football as his statement has been shown up to be completely ridiculous.

He's sorry he mentioned the UK because too many of things he complained about in Ireland exist there too.

Ok then, discussion over, I lose.

BraziliaNZ

CucaFace wrote: »

And you didnt just meantion the UK, you basically stated it is something we here in Ireland should be looking at as beacon of enlightenment to improve our social issues here.

At least the UK is providing opportunities to our Irish graduates and unemployed, through initiative and business sense, at least they're doing something right.

CucaFace

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I've never seen a heroin addict in Brixton, I was saying this to some locals recently. I think crack is drug du jour right now. Anyway I just wanted to rant about Eire, because it's continously letting people down and people are continually emigrating and I can't see it improving.

Emirgrating because of a lack of job oppertunites.

A lot of these people are not happy at having to leave their life in this country behind them as in all reality, life here isn't too bad at all.

Its econmical reasons pushing people out.

In fact its social issues that are still bringing people here .

More and more Brazilians/ South Americans are coming here each year now as they love life here in comparison to what they have back in their home countries.

BraziliaNZ

Anyway apart from picking apart my comparisons etc, I don't think I'm a great debater or anything so no wonder I'm being pulled apart, what I really wanted to discuss is whether you think Ireland will get itself to a good place in our lifetimes. Can you see a good health service, a happier people, a steady economy built on other things apart from construction? Politicians we can trust? Good public transport? Can we ever get to the level of a country like Sweden or Germany when it comes to these things?

KerranJast

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Anyway apart from picking apart my comparisons etc, I don't think I'm a great debater or anything so no wonder I'm being pulled apart, what I really wanted to discuss is whether you think Ireland will get itself to a good place in our lifetimes. Can you see a good health service, a happier people, a steady economy built on other things apart from construction? Politicians we can trust? Good public transport?

Good health service in the next 10 years is feasible if the current Govt can implement the plans they have.

We had a booming economy based on exports in the late 90s. Then we inflated the property bubble to produce a super boom which crashed and burned. That export economy is doing very well atm. We urgently need kids to choose more appropriate careers to suit the economy though i.e. science & technology.

TBF to them our current crop of politicians are probably the most honest we've had.

Public transport is not going to improve much more given the holes in the budget but its come a long way since the 80s. If anything its getting crucified by the huge success in getting the motorway network built.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Can we ever get to the level of a country like Sweden or Germany when it comes to these things?

No. People don't want to pay the tax that comes with those countries lifestyle. We can get closer though.

Ray Palmer

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Anyway apart from picking apart my comparisons etc, I don't think I'm a great debater or anything so no wonder I'm being pulled apart, what I really wanted to discuss is whether you think Ireland will get itself to a good place in our lifetimes. Can you see a good health service, a happier people, a steady economy built on other things apart from construction? Politicians we can trust? Good public transport? Can we ever get to the level of a country like Sweden or Germany when it comes to these things?

You are simply clueless. We actually have pretty good transport for the size and population distribution. We have a pretty decent economic outlook going forward. Pharmaceuticals and software are majour outputs.
We will never have the economies of scales other countries have as there is simply not enough people.
You want us to be like Sweden ? The country that survives off the misery of other countries by hiding money? Germany? Massive population that effectively was funded to have a complete new structure by allied and soviet funding after WWII?
It isn't you can't debate it is you don't know the reality you are criticising.
We will never have the NHS or BBC there isn't enough people to fund it.
No politician can be trusted anywhere.

Jorah

I have said it before and I will say it again.


It's time to reform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland

hooradiation

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You want us to be like Sweden ? The country that survives off the misery of other countries by hiding money?

I think that you may have confused Sweden with Switzerland there, old boy.

Ray Palmer

hooradiation wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You want us to be like Sweden ? The country that survives off the misery of other countries by hiding money?

I think that you may have confused Sweden with Switzerland there, old boy.

You are right.
Sweden's massive taxes and exploitation of their forests is how they do it. They did diversify well with mobile phones. The come here for cheap goods.

BraziliaNZ

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You are simply clueless. We actually have pretty good transport for the size and population distribution. We have a pretty decent economic outlook going forward. Pharmaceuticals and software are majour outputs.
We will never have the economies of scales other countries have as there is simply not enough people.
You want us to be like Sweden ? The country that survives off the misery of other countries by hiding money? Germany? Massive population that effectively was funded to have a complete new structure by allied and soviet funding after WWII?
It isn't you can't debate it is you don't know the reality you are criticising.
We will never have the NHS or BBC there isn't enough people to fund it.
No politician can be trusted anywhere.

So what's your point. Nowhere is good, and Ireland is just fine?

peasant

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You are right.
Sweden's ... forests ...mobile phones.

nope ...that's Finland

try iron ore and flatpack furniture

Ray Palmer

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

So what's your point. Nowhere is good, and Ireland is just fine?

the point is everywhere has issues. You can't expect every country to be equal. Social, historical and economic factors all play a part. We aren't third world and not massively different. Every country needs to improve and we are by no means the worst.
Compare like with like. We are actually a pretty young country compared to many. For our history and size we are doing pretty damn fine. This economic downturn will pass

Nodin

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

So what's your point. Nowhere is good, and Ireland is just fine?

I think his point, as illustrated by your op, is that you're the problem.

gaffer91

paddyandy wrote: »

People understand shortage of money but under the surface we have a lack of attention to maintaining values with us and that's just as important but gets' little attention .Every Election has been about Money only Money .So there it is .Things got worse in the Tiger years .Crime went soaring while cutbacks to the gardai went on at the same time .That's the Nation we are !!!!!!

paddyandy, do you ever get bored with posting the same old excessively negative shíte on every thread you go on? I can hardly go on a thread in AH without finding you whinging (usually mistakenly) about something.

Brussels Sprout

Sea Filly wrote: »

I wouldn't do that. Would you?

I certainly would not. However, I know at least 5 people of the top of my head who would see it as their right to game a system like that. Same reason why McDonald's don't offer refills in Irish branches and newspapers are sold from unmanned boxes in the street.

tayto lover

Without doubt this is one of the best countries in the world to live in. The weather is usually poor enough but the food and craic we have cannot be equalled anywhere.
Yes we have corruption and a poor economic outlook at the minute (like many countries have) but I think our people are the best. Strangers will converse with you anywhere you go. That won't happen in too many other countries, England included. No matter where you go you will get drunks and druggies but by and large our people are fine. Last weekend we were unlucky in that so many of our dregs attended a gig at the same time, just unfortunate. A couple of dozen louts can ruin a good event for thousands. I have great faith in our youth and hate to see so many of them leaving.

BraziliaNZ

tayto lover wrote: »

That won't happen in too many other countries, England included

I talk to everyone regardless of colour or creed, wherever I am. Ireland is friendly yes apart from the usual scumbags. But your comment on England is incorrect, they are very friendly here, I know so many of my neighbours here and have been in their houses for drinks etc and I have only lived in this neighbourhood for a year. I get tick in the pub if I run out of money and all of the regulars know me by name. I went there for years and never got a hello or howya from the bar staff, but it's different here. So I resent your comment on England!

kr7

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Has it improved? So poor people on the dole have xboxes and sky TV these days, which isn't really an improvement, but they are completely out of touch with everything and seem to be very angry. Were people getting beaten to death by teenagers or stabbed in the head with screwdrivers back then? Morals and decency and community are dead. Our leaders have shown us the way, to take all you can for yourself and not to care about anyone else.

Example should be set from the top.

Here, we have Kenny, who did 4 years teaching in the early 70's, never gave up his teaching position and is now entited to a €100,000 lump sum and €30k a year just from his teaching 'career'.

Then we have Hogan, who has more loans on property than we know, owes a fortune and where did he get said loans? only from one michael fingleton the ex head of Irish Nationwide who screwed the country good and proper.

Next we have james o'reilly, minister for health, named in stubbs gazette and is in direct contradiction of a high court order.

The list goes on and on, ahern and cowan on €150,000 per year for destroying the country, developers and bankers laughing at us fools for bailing them out....

So you see, if the example isn't being set from the top, can anyone really blame the average Irish citizen for not really giving a sh1t about the place??

BraziliaNZ

kr7 wrote: »

Example should be set from the top.

Here, we have Kenny, who did 4 years teaching in the early 70's, never gave up his teaching position and is now entited to a €100,000 lump sum and €30k a year just from his teaching 'career'.

Then we have Hogan, who has more loans on property than we know, owes a fortune and where did he get said loans? only from one michael fingleton the ex head of Irish Nationwide who screwed the country good and proper.

Next we have james o'reilly, minister for health, named in stubbs gazette and is in direct contradiction of a high court order.

The list goes on and on, ahern and cowan on €150,000 per year for destroying the country, developers and bankers laughing at us fools for bailing them out....

So you see, if the example isn't being set from the top, can anyone really blame the average Irish citizen for not really giving a sh1t about the place??

I hear ya, but there's an attitude with some posters that it's alright as these things happen everywhere. Do they though? I cited the expenses scandal in Britain. MPs went to jail. Has a TD ever been sent to jail in Ireland? I'm asking that legitimately I don't know the answer!

EdanHewittt

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Taking three sausages but only paying for two, not keying in the carrots. The Dane was horrified: "You mean, they would steal the food?"

Self service checkout in Tesco is a similar situation.

The Self Service thing really tests your conscience - it's so easy to bag a sly Twix. I know they have cameras, but I've seen the monitors, there is very little detail in the picture. Not exactly 1080p HD you're getting on them.

(I smell a new thread in AH after writing this)

stone roses

when ireland was voted one of the best countrys in the world to live in in 2004 people came home for all over the place , now we are in some hard times like most other countrys around the world and all we can do is cry about it , its not the country thats the problem its the people running it!!

kr7

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I hear ya, but there's an attitude with some posters that it's alright as these things happen everywhere. Do they though? I cited the expenses scandal in Britain. MPs went to jail. Has a TD ever been sent to jail in Ireland? I'm asking that legitimately I don't know the answer!

Lawlor did but only for contempt of court for failing to co-operate with the mahon tribunal.
Joe Higgings and Clare Daly were jailed for contempt of court for protesting against the bin charges.


These were for 'contempt of court' and in higgins and daly's cases they were fighting for something they believed in.

We don't do 'white collar' crime in Ireland, there's too many vested interests, too many politicians/bankers/developers all tangled up in in sordid little triangles and maybe if one goes down he'll squeal on the others.

You'll see it soon with the inquiry into the bank guarantee, already the vested interests (politicians and civil 'servants') are trying to get it taken away from the PAC and have it investigated by the very people who were involved.

They all cover each others back, it's always been that way here.

Sad.

paddyandy

People understand money in pocket but don't understand the seriousness of nationhood and citizenship .Why do societies function or malfunction . Look after your laws first and everything else follows as a matter of course .......maybe too lofty for boards ??? You don't need a nebulously verbose book to understand it .Common sense a lot of it .The Tiger years was money money money and people understood that BUT that was all we understood .