WINDOW MARKING

Irishgoatman

Did anyone sort the problem with window markings?.

I need to replace windows in my camper and the new ones will be made of PMMA Acrylic, the same material that Parra Press and all the others use, and they will be identical to the existing windows as they will be making a mold from my windows.
However, the company in Ballina that will make them for me are not able to put a stamp on them and the only thing they can do is state that they are made of Pmma Acrylic. This without them stateing that they comply with the standards required, is not acceptable by the RSA.

Help! where do I go from here?

All suggestions welcome:).

defike

I'm no expert but I think windows made by just anybody will not do.
People lie to goverment depts so for this reason they will only accept the proper markings.Hope you haven't spent any money on them yet.

moodrater

If they won't state it then I wouldn't go any further with them.

Irishgoatman

No I haven't spent any money yet.

I've been doing some reaseach on PMMA ACRYLIC.

Regardless of what the object is that's being made, it looks as though this acrylic itself can only be made one way.
It is used to make 'plane windows, submarine windows, riot police van windows and aquariums to name but a few uses.

The firm that have quoted me for new windows specializes in Acrylic.
They will be happy to put, on the invoice, that it's PMMA ACRLYIC but not in a seperate letter.
In my humble opinion this should suffice, but no, not good emough for the RSA. I can see their point, that the way the regulation on this subject is worded there is nothing that can be done.

I had the feeling that someone else on boards was asking about un-marked windows but I can't find the post anywhere.

My existing windows can be re-sealed but with the existing rubbers being so solid with age it won't be a foolproof job.

A firm in Waterford made the Acrlic rear windows for the speed camera vans and I'm waiting for a return 'phone call from them, so I might be lucky yet.
Also waiting for a return call from a campervan/caravan breakers in Wales who are looking through their stock for me.

So I'm back to the drawing board.

Irishgoatman

Meant to add that with an invoice from a reputable firm it I would have thought that it should be possible to get the windows certified.

moodrater

Irishgoatman wrote: »

It is used to make 'plane windows, submarine windows, riot police van windows and aquariums to name but a few uses.

Which is why they should have no problem writing a letter, basically the RSA want to know that when broken it wont form pieces lightly to cause injury. When metacrylate breaks the pieces are usually blunt. Their loss.

I'd be really interested in hearing about the company in waterford, good find :thumbsup:

Irishgoatman

moodrater wrote: »

Which is why they should have no problem writing a letter, basically the RSA want to know that when broken it wont form pieces lightly to cause injury. When metacrylate breaks the pieces are usually blunt. Their loss.

I'd be really interested in hearing about the company in waterford, good find :thumbsup:

Unfortunately the firm in Ballina don't make anything like those that I listed:( so, I assume, are not prepared to put their reputation on the line for something that could, in all likelyhood, be a once and once only.
I can understand that.

I'll keep looking.

Engravers are pretty cheap. 0:)

Irishgoatman

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Engravers are pretty cheap. 0:)

If you're suggesting what I think you're suggesting then shame on you;).

ps. Do you know any:D.

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

ps. Do you know any:D.

Last time I had my rear window replaced one of the boys in the autoglass vans put the watermark on it for me.
DIY engravers in maplins for €20

Irishgoatman

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Last time I had my rear window replaced one of the boys in the autoglass vans put the watermark on it for me.
DIY engravers in maplins for €20

Was your rear window glass or acrylic?.

Unbranded safety glass, cut off a sheet, now marked to British standard. Window tint prevents windows from shattering anyways. I'll be getting my side window; 20mm perspex branded in a few weeks. I'll let you know if that works.

Irishgoatman

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Unbranded safety glass, cut off a sheet, now marked to British standard. Window tint prevents windows from shattering anyways. I'll be getting my side window; 20mm perspex branded in a few weeks. I'll let you know if that works.

Thanks Sir Liamalot, I'll be very interested to know.
When you say perspex am I to assume that you don't mean the PMMA Acrylic that is usually used in caravan and campervan windows?. I still think that I should be able to get the windows made of this approved provided the manufacturer states that it is what he has used. I've done more research and found that it's used by surgeons to replace lost bone mass and to join medical implants!. Pretty amazing stuff.

Haven't a clue what it is. The previous owner installed it, said he got it in a chandlery shop. I imagine he was trying to hide where a case burst through the side by evidence of the nearby dimples.

Irishgoatman

:eek:.

I meant the corner of a case...not the entire thing...oops

*Kol*

Here's some light reading for you on the qualities of perspex used for glazing.

Irishgoatman

Many thanks *Kol*,

Haven't read it all yet but Page 7 is very interesting.
This jogged my memory, many years ago when I was into bikes, the helmet visor was made of perspex.

This gives me another avenue to go down.

Never say die. The answer is out there somewhere!

*Kol*

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Many thanks *Kol*,

Haven't read it all yet but Page 7 is very interesting.
This jogged my memory, many years ago when I was into bikes, the helmet visor was made of perspex.

This gives me another avenue to go down.

Never say die. The answer is out there somewhere!

I had a similar problem with windows that i had made in the UK. The company used Perspex which is just a trade name for the PMMA acrylic. They do not put any markings on the windows but they were willing to write a statement to say that they were using Perspex which is approved as a glazing material for automotive applications.

There is a guy in Limerick who will retrospectively stamp your windows for you with the approval marking (I think its about €40 a window).

When i did the DOE test one of my windows was broken and only had the inner pane left intact (which was secured to the MH with duct tape). There was no marking on the window as the marking is normally on the inside of the outer pane but it still passed the test.

Irishgoatman

Hi *Kol*,
Yes, as you said, the marking is usually on the inside of the outer pane. So I'm curious how the guy in Limerick will stamp them.

I've just got my camper back, the guy I had left it with has done a good job of sealing the window that leaked but I would still like new windows for the appearance if nothing else.

Whilst I was at his place I had a look at a broken caravan window and the marking on that was one of the approved ones and it was just a label that I could peel off! so I could peel off the ones on my window but could not put them onto the inside of the outer pane on the new ones:mad:. If they were on the inner pane they probably would not be readable from the outside.

I've still got a few irons in the fire so watch this space (but don't hold your breath) as I'm sure I will get this problem sorted.
But I'm still open to suggestions, legal ones if possible of course;).

I've just had a thought.
As the markings appear to be just sticky labels where do the companies that make the windows get them from? I wouldn't have thought they just get them printed themselves would they?. Yet another avenue for me to go down

Irishgoatman

Forget the last para in my previous post.
Manufactures of windows go to their country's Standards Authority to get approval for their product.
Expensive business to do that so the firm that will make mine won't go for that.

*Kol*

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Hi *Kol*,
Yes, as you said, the marking is usually on the inside of the outer pane. So I'm curious how the guy in Limerick will stamp them.

I've just got my camper back, the guy I had left it with has done a good job of sealing the window that leaked but I would still like new windows for the appearance if nothing else.

Whilst I was at his place I had a look at a broken caravan window and the marking on that was one of the approved ones and it was just a label that I could peel off! so I could peel off the ones on my window but could not put them onto the inside of the outer pane on the new ones:mad:. If they were on the inner pane they probably would not be readable from the outside.

I've still got a few irons in the fire so watch this space (but don't hold your breath) as I'm sure I will get this problem sorted.
But I'm still open to suggestions, legal ones if possible of course;).

I've just had a thought.
As the markings appear to be just sticky labels where do the companies that make the windows get them from? I wouldn't have thought they just get them printed themselves would they?. Yet another avenue for me to go down

Some of mine are the sticker on the inner pane type. They are printed in reverse so they can be read from the outside. The others are on the inside of the outer pane. I now have a mixture of old type German markings and new EN markings.

The guy in Limerick has a rubber stamp with special ink that he stamps on the inside of the window. Could be an option even for €40 a window. I just paid €660 for a 2 foot by 1 foot new window.

Irishgoatman

That was an expensive window to say the least:eek:.

My windows are 4' x 2' double glazed.
The firm that will make mine are going to charge me 150 for making the mould and 180 per window including tinting the inside pane.

Irishgoatman

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Thanks Sir Liamalot, I'll be very interested to know.

I didn't bother with the engraver. The cert. was easier and adequate in the end.
Vetus Escape Hatch from Union Chandlery in Cork.

DSC_0191.JPG

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/06fa8bec#/06fa8bec/226

Irishgoatman

Well done Sir Liam, I'm getting nowhere fast.

Have obtained documents from the manufactors of the material that will be used to make my new windows (PMMA Acrlyic) showing all the technical details, but not the wording that the RSA are insisting on :mad:.

Still working at it though. Never say die until you're dead is my motto.

It's my theory that all a mechanic wants to see is a page of safety acronyms and that he reckons it's not dangerous. Thankfully you only need to convince the tester and not the RSA.

Irishgoatman

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It's my theory that all a mechanic wants to see is a page of safety acronyms and that he reckons it's not dangerous. Thankfully you only need to convince the tester and not the RSA.

Although I agree with you It's still 500 I'll have to pay out and keep fingers crossed.

In addition to that, how about if/when I come to sell the 'van. Would you buy a camper that has windows with no markings on them?, I don't think I would.:(

Fair point I won't buy a camper without glass markings these days.
Still I'd rather put that money into running gear instead of acronyms.

Irishgoatman

I'll agree with you as long as "running gear" doesn't mean shoes with spikes and shorts etc.:D

ouch