Pride in our winners

Bad Panda

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Yes of course we do, I hope Katie wins gold, she deserves it, has done a lot for women's boxing

Yeah and the other women boxers have probably done as much in their respective countries.

Don't get it at all. It's mainly a bandwagon people jump on because someone Irish is doing well (like Katie Taylor) rather than actually taking note and giving support from the start.

Brain Stroking

Bad Panda wrote: »

Yeah and the other women boxers have probably done as much in their respective countries.

Don't get it at all. It's mainly a bandwagon people jump on because someone Irish is doing well (like Katie Taylor) rather than actually taking note and giving support from the start.

That's complete bollocks. The Olympics hasnt started yet so where's the bandwagon? I will support all the athletes from the outset. As will all other Irish people that dont have a weird repressed attitude such as you seem to.

Muff_Daddy

My name is URL wrote: »

I dunno, imo being proud of the country you live in and the society you contribute to isn't sad.

Exactly this.

People who can't see this, claim that its pathethic to cheer our 'national heros' strike me as extremely narcissistic and basically living in their own little bubble.

Where we were born is an accident of Geography. How we are shaped is not. The people we grow up with shape how we are as people and form our culture. We identify easily with fellow countrymen/women, therefore it's the natural thing to do is be happy for them when they achieve at a big stage like the Olympics.

For most people this comes completely natural, but it seems some people need to be explained this.

Of course I don't speak for everyone.....there is also the self-loathing brigade which are all too prevalent around these parts, and would take a perverse pleasure in seeing Ireland flop at the Olympics.

kneemos

MarkHitide wrote: »

Who are the "ours" you refer to?

Irish people.Katie Taylor is an exception,everybody does wish her well.

Pedant

I don't like nationalism. Any kind. It's a slippery slope.

Peetrik

twinytwo wrote: »

And yet most of them have to train outside the country

Yeah such a shame, some even have to change nationalities to be able to train and compete.

Think of how many scrawny athlethes a golden handshake pension could support. We're such a strange little country the way we do things, boggles the mind sometimes.

Brain Stroking

Pedant wrote: »

I don't like nationalism. Any kind. It's a slippery slope.

I think you are confusing nationalism and patriotism

Madam_X

I always feel happy when an Irish team or individual does well - but nah, I don't feel pride.

twinytwo

dirtyden wrote: »

Limerick university has excellent facilities, athletes from all over the world visit renowned limerick sports physio Gerald Hartmann.

The point you made was that most of out athletes train abroad, they don't. We do not have facilities that match a lot of other countries that is true, and it really should be improved upon, but we do have some decent facilities and tracks. Athletics is not a mainstream sport in Ireland but we still have produced some fine athletes.

What other countries are you comparing us to? Name me a country of a similar size and population where athletics is not mainstream who has state of the art facilities? The facilites have improved recently though, but much needs to be done.

And anyhow our athletes training abroad would not make them less irish. Should we not support our team because our facilities are not state of the art, again what is your point?

What are you on about??...

kneemos

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I think you are confusing nationalism and patriotism

Is patriotism the younger brother of nationalism.?

Brain Stroking

kneemos wrote: »

Is patriotism the younger brother of nationalism.?

Nationalism is a political ideology. Patriotism is being proud of your country and the achievements of any person that hails from there. I'm sure all nationalists are patriots but it doesnt necessarily work the other way round. So it was a poor argument

Richard Hillman

I cheer for most irish athletes although i wont cheer for people i dont like just because they are Irish. I was given out to for wanting the Italy team to beat Ireland in the Euro's. Im not that interested in the Irish football team and love the Italian team, im not going to just cheer for somebody because they were born in a geographical region or their distant granny was born in Ireland. It would be quite xenophobic to do so.

There is an unfortunite dilemma for the likes of Rory McIlroy and Greame McDowell in the next Olympics on what country they will be playing under the umbrella for. All the 2 lads want to do is go to the Olympics to win for themselves. Of course all the morons north and south of the border are trying to use them as a political tool or to jump on their coatails to fullfil their own failed lives. For them it doesnt matter what country they play for, they just want an olympic medal. For some reason the umbrella they play under matters to the people that dont matter.

kneemos

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Nationalism is a political ideology. Patriotism is being proud of your country and the achievements of any person that hails from there. I'm sure all nationalists are patriots but it doesnt necessarily work the other way round. So it was a poor argument

Fair point.I think our sporting heros pander to both sides.

Jimoslimos

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There is an unfortunite dilemma for the likes of Rory McIlroy and Greame McDowell in the next Olympics on what country they will be playing under the umbrella for. All the 2 lads want to do is go to the Olympics to win for themselves.

Think that applies for most individual sports, many sportsmen and women would be happier competing without the baggage. A choice between a major and an Olympic gold and I know which one the golfers would pick.

Problem arises when an Olympic gold is the pinnacle in your chosen sport, not much choice other than to represent your nation and not always the one you might initially wish - e.g amateur boxing, Wayne McCullough in 1992 was a bigger dilemma than what either of the two golfers face.

Plus athletes aren't helped by additional pressures such as;

bbc wrote:

British athletes will definitely know the words to the national anthem before the London Games, says UK Athletics head coach Charles van Commenee.
.....
"They know the words, or they will," said Van Commenee.
"If they don't, somebody will make an issue of it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18335642

Brain Stroking

kneemos wrote: »

Fair point.I think our sporting heros pander to both sides.

Which sporting heroes? And how?

kneemos

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Which sporting heroes? And how?

Anybody with a sense of patriotism or nationalism has it magnified by an Irish person who wins anything.Don't even have to be Irish e.g. Rory Mc Illroy.

Brain Stroking

kneemos wrote: »

Anybody with a sense of patriotism or nationalism has it magnified by an Irish person who wins anything.Don't even have to be Irish e.g. Rory Mc Illroy.

And what is wrong with that? Rory McIllroy, while in the UK, is from Down which is 2 hours up the road so natural people will support him.

Your argument is rubbish. You do know that?

kneemos

McIlroy if you ask him is very much British.Claiming him for ourselves is embarrasing.

Jimoslimos

kneemos wrote: »

McIlroy if you ask him is very much British.Claiming him for ourselves is embarrasing.

I don't know that he really wants to push the issue either way. If pushed I think he'd be happier to call himself Northern Irish or an Ulsterman.

Regardless I hope he does well, under whatever flag he chooses.

Rasheed

kneemos wrote: »

McIlroy if you ask him is very much British.Claiming him for ourselves is embarrasing.

He makes a point of not calling himself Irish/British as far as I know. And gets really thick if he's asked what religion he is apparently.

Pedant

Brain Stroking wrote: »

I think you are confusing nationalism and patriotism

I'm not actually. And besides both inevitable lead to a slippery slope.

Brain Stroking

Pedant wrote: »

I'm not actually. And besides both inevitable lead to a slippery slope.

I think you'll find you are.

Brain Stroking

kneemos wrote: »

McIlroy if you ask him is very much British.Claiming him for ourselves is embarrasing.

No one is "claiming" him. He is supported by Irish people because he is from the island. Very simple. Your attempts to create something out of nothing are what is embarrassing

MarkHitide

Pedant wrote: »

I'm not actually. And besides both inevitable lead to a slippery slope.

Oh for a non-slip slope-

kneemos

How come the footballers did'nt get a heros homecoming.?We normally throw a party when they lose.

old hippy

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Exactly this.

People who can't see this, claim that its pathethic to cheer our 'national heros' strike me as extremely narcissistic and basically living in their own little bubble.

Where we were born is an accident of Geography. How we are shaped is not. The people we grow up with shape how we are as people and form our culture. We identify easily with fellow countrymen/women, therefore it's the natural thing to do is be happy for them when they achieve at a big stage like the Olympics.

For most people this comes completely natural, but it seems some people need to be explained this.

Of course I don't speak for everyone.....there is also the self-loathing brigade which are all too prevalent around these parts, and would take a perverse pleasure in seeing Ireland flop at the Olympics.

Ah, so those who you don't speak for are the self haters?

What about those who reckon you're talking a load of jingoistic bobbins and may well identify with (shock! horror!) people outside of Ireland?

Parochial, twee, chest beating little uber patriots, how I miss ye :rolleyes:

kfallon

kneemos wrote: »

How come the footballers did'nt get a heros homecoming.?We normally throw a party when they lose.

It wasn't so much a heroic "you did us proud" loss as a shameful, embarrassing one. It's like when your Ma would pull you in off the street as a young fella and say, "Get in there quick you, making a show of me to the neighbours!"

old hippy

kfallon wrote: »

It wasn't so much a heroic "you did us proud" loss as a shameful, embarrassing one. It's like when your Ma would pull you in off the street as a young fella and say, "Get in there quick you, making a show of me to the neighbours!"

I read that so much the wrong way :eek:

kfallon

old hippy wrote: »

I read that so much the wrong way :eek:

Glad I wasn't brought up in your house

Big Mouth

kneemos wrote: »

Anybody else not get the whole nationalistic thing when someone wins a medal or competition

Another middle class whiner kid (plenty on here) with smug statements.

If Katie Taylor wins a Gold it might give the country a lift, even if its for day, alot of people will get wrapped up in and enjoy it. Is that understandable? Wouldn't you be happy if most people in the country got on the Olympics bandwagon, plenty of good feeling and goodwill?

Because thats what will happen with most people bar the few little snipers like you who. By the way I'll take a wild guess and say you haven't an atheletic bone in your body

kneemos

I do keep resonably fit and your joking with the "middle class."

old hippy

Big Mouth wrote: »

Another middle class whiner kid (plenty on here) with smug statements.

If Katie Taylor wins a Gold it might give the country a lift, even if its for day, alot of people will get wrapped up in and enjoy it. Is that understandable? Wouldn't you be happy if most people in the country got on the Olympics bandwagon, plenty of good feeling and goodwill?

Because thats what will happen with most people bar the few little snipers like you who. By the way I'll take a wild guess and say you haven't an atheletic bone in your body

What the hell has class or whether or not someone is active in sports got to do with it?

Muff_Daddy

old hippy wrote: »

Ah, so those who you don't speak for are the self haters?

What about those who reckon you're talking a load of jingoistic bobbins and may well identify with (shock! horror!) people outside of Ireland?

Parochial, twee, chest beating little uber patriots, how I miss ye

I said its natural for most Irish people to be proud of the achievements of their fellow countrymen/women. If you can't comprehend that, you're living under a rock tbh. This pride does not extend to living vicariously throgh them, beating our chests, or anything else like thet.

I also never said anything about not identifing with other countries, fair enough if thats your bag, clearly I wasn't speaking for you, I don't know where you drew that conclusion. The poster asked a question on an Irish forum why we celebrate our national winners, I answered it as it pertained to the how the majority of the country feel when an Irish man or woman achieves.

You seem to have a big problem with Irish people enjoying the successes of fellow Irish people going by your posts in this thread. Whilst I do not wish to know the reasons for this, I find it sad that you feel the need to resort to the childish name calling of the people who choose to celebrate their fellow countrymen.

Wattle

Being an incorrigible lardarse I'm just glad that someone else is out there making the effort. Come on Ireland!

old hippy

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

I said its natural for most Irish people to be proud of the achievements of their fellow countrymen/women. If you can't comprehend that, you're living under a rock tbh. This pride does not extend to living vicariously throgh them, beating our chests, or anything else like thet.

I also never said anything about not identifing with other countries, fair enough if thats your bag, clearly I wasn't speaking for you, I don't know where you drew that conclusion. The poster asked a question on an Irish forum why we celebrate our national winners, I answered it as it pertained to the how the majority of the country feel when an Irish man or woman achieves.

You seem to have a big problem with Irish people enjoying the successes of fellow Irish people going by your posts in this thread. Whilst I do not wish to know the reasons for this, I find it sad that you feel the need to resort to the childish name calling of the people who choose to celebrate their fellow countrymen.

It's not a celebration though, judging by the tone of your reply. It's like pledging some kind of allegiance.

I have no problem if you want to celebrate - it's the slightly unsettling jingoism that goes on from some of crowd. You know how it transpires; you're not proper Irish/you're a self hater if you chose to opt out of the hysteria.

For the record, I was willing us on back in the glory days 20 years or so back but we lost the plot since then. Maybe I'll "celebrate" or try this "pride" thing when there's something to celebrate.