willow or dogwoods for hedge/screening

countrywoman

hi all, looking for ideas please

am planning to prepare an area of my garden for hedging...i hope to sow it in bare root season

the ground is very wet and marshy. soil is alkaline. i hope to dig lots of well rotted farmyard manure into the soil here to improve it. currently rushes are growing there perfectly!!!

from my research, i know that willow or dog woods would survive there. i planted part of that area with river birch and dog woods earlier this year

i want to plant something along the back of this area, like a hedge or a screen

can anyone suggest anything other than willow or dog wood. i have hornbeam in another area and is doing well, but this area is not as wet.

can anyone post a pciture or a link for willows or dogwoods in a hedge type look

thanks

Oldtree

have you had a look around your area to see what else is doing well for ideas?

paddy147

countrywoman wrote: »

hi all, looking for ideas please

am planning to prepare an area of my garden for hedging...i hope to sow it in bare root season

the ground is very wet and marshy. soil is alkaline. i hope to dig lots of well rotted farmyard manure into the soil here to improve it. currently rushes are growing there perfectly!!!

from my research, i know that willow or dog woods would survive there. i planted part of that area with river birch and dog woods earlier this year

i want to plant something along the back of this area, like a hedge or a screen

can anyone suggest anything other than willow or dog wood. i have hornbeam in another area and is doing well, but this area is not as wet.

can anyone post a pciture or a link for willows or dogwoods in a hedge type look

thanks

I think I have pictures of a "live willow screen" somewhere here,from a large garden estate that I visited in County Wicklow.I loved it.

I,ll try and find it.:)

countrywoman

gosh, it's not like you to have photos Paddy!!!!!:) that would be great, thnks...would love to see the photo

oldtree...its at the very back of my garden. it's very wet as i said, nothing growing there only rushes (in abundance) and grass. i planted river birch, taxodium and dog woods in a little sort of a woodland area and that is doing well.

the rest of the garden is fine, just this particular area is in awful condition. hope that helps?. was walking around it earlier and it is so soggy.

rje66

alders will survive in those conditions too,
BUT, 'dont fight the site'

i planted river birch, taxodium and dog woods in a little sort of a woodland area and that is doing well.

why not continue planting these? better to look at more of the same plants that do well than other varieties that will struggle to survive. I realise you are trying to grow a hedge, but would a mix of alders, dog woods and birch in a belt work.?

Also a more unusual tree the swamp cypress?

countrywoman

thanks for that rje66...see, i would prefer a more 'hedgey' look if you know what i mean. it is to kind of screen part of the back boundary of the site


taxodium which i've sown is also known as swamp cypress as far as i can remember

rje66

yes, figured that was what you were trying, I feel your pain:(

countrywoman

thanks rje
the solution really is to get the area drained but realistically i wont be able to do it for a few years.
would love to see pictures of willows or others in a hedge/screen type thing

paddy147

countrywoman wrote: »

thanks rje
the solution really is to get the area drained but realistically i wont be able to do it for a few years.
would love to see pictures of willows or others in a hedge/screen type thing

I cant find the pic of the live willow screen.Sorry:(

It was down in the National Show Gardens in County Wicklow.

It was a very long live willow screen (about 30 feet long) that then went into a large arch and back into a live screen again.

All one piece and all live/growing.

LaChatteGitane

Here are some live willow fences. I love them.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=live+willow+fencing&hl=nl&rlz=1T4GGHP_nlBE435BE435&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2sYBULqOMNGDhQeL1_DzBw&ved=0CFwQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=474

pwurple

I love cornus hedging. The strong red stems in winter are very dramatic. I think it all depends on what height hedge you want. Dogwood won't get taller than 4 or 5 foot, willow is a tree rather than a shrub, so will get much bigger.

countrywoman

thanks paddy and lachatte, lovely ideas there

pwrple i love the dogwoods too so i think i might go with them. i have about 10 of them here already and they have beautiful impact in winter/early spring

paddy147

Do you have to cut dogwood right back down (about 4 inches from the soil) each winter though,to get new red stems and growth??

Honest question.

countrywoman

hi paddy, i haven't a clue to be honest.

i only planted my ones early this year, they were bare root.

i see them along the road on my way to work everyday...along a dual carriageway,and i don't ever remeber them being cut back

someone else here might know for sure

eirator

Don't "plant" anything, not in the traditional sence anyway. Just roll out a length of whatever you like to use as a weed barrier (I use a meter wide black woven geotextile on a roll similar to what coal sacks are made of) peg it down and push through at whatever you decide are suitable spacings 25cm lengths of willow cut from a site with similar conditions. If the willow cuttings cost nothing then you can try it any time of year but November is a better time to start if your paying for the "cuttings".

If you want lots of different willows and colours try somewhere like waterwillows.com they post out to suitable "settings". Service is good and I've had 99% success with their stuff.

Depending on space you can put in a couple of rows and cut them down alternate years after 3 years I find the bigger varieties get a bit thick to cut with secateurs. You can also keep a few as pollards to give a bit of extra height - the yellow and red stemmed vars that need cutting each year for the best colour look good done that way.

To fill up the bottom of the planting area and for a bit of ground cover try some of the lower growing willows some of which have excellent catkins.

paddy147

eirator wrote: »

Don't "plant" anything, not in the traditional sence anyway. Just roll out a length of whatever you like to use as a weed barrier (I use a meter wide black woven geotextile on a roll similar to what coal sacks are made of) peg it down and push through at whatever you decide are suitable spacings 25cm lengths of willow cut from a site with similar conditions. If the willow cuttings cost nothing then you can try it any time of year but November is a better time to start if your paying for.

Like this you mean....(only this is mypex and hornbeam).;)

eirator

paddy147 wrote: »

Like this you mean....(only this is mypex and hornbeam).;)

Mypex if you can get it is fine, I use something similar from Glambia, roll is about 1m wide and 30m long think I paid 32euro for the last roll I bought.

The advantage in pushing the willow cuttings straight thorugh the "mypex" is that the weed control is even better no cutting the "mypex" to get around the plants. I normally have a bit of galvanised wire handy (same as I use to anchor the geotextile) which I use to make a hole ready to push the cutting through.

I wouldn't spend any money on an ornamental mulch for this type of willow planting, but you do need to anchor the geotextile. I cut 30cm lengths of plain fencing wire and make very rough staples out of them then push them in every metre or so along the edge of the material. At the ends I fold a foot or so back under to stop it fraying.

paddy147

eirator wrote: »

Mypex if you can get it is fine, I use something similar from Glambia, roll is about 1m wide and 30m long think I paid 32euro for the last roll I bought.

The advantage in pushing the willow cuttings straight thorugh the "mypex" is that the weed control is even better no cutting the "mypex" to get around the plants. I normally have a bit of galvanised wire handy (same as I use to anchor the geotextile) which I use to make a hole ready to push the cutting through.

I wouldn't spend any money on an ornamental mulch for this type of willow planting, but you do need to anchor the geotextile. I cut 30cm lengths of plain fencing wire and make very rough staples out of them then push them in every metre or so along the edge of the material. At the ends I fold a foot or so back under to stop it fraying.

I think the roll of Mypex (50 meter x 1 meter) was 50 euro or thereabouts.

Reason why we used bark mulch was to give a more natural feel,as we dont like stones/gravel and concrete kerbs that much.Too harsh looking,to me anyway.:(

The Mypex was overlapped by 50mm and then staked with long weed fabric pegs

We also used Mypex as a weed barrier under the pavers too,for added piece of mind.


PS-Sorry to the OP for straying off topic.:o

I will bow out now.

Hope you get something sorted.:)

eirator

I wouldn't even spend money on the pegs they sell for holding the membrane down, bit of wire bent wire does the job cheap enough. Don't forget I'm refering to the OP's "bog" planting which I'm guessing is not the most ornamental area of the garden if it has rushes growing there. In ornamental areas then a topping looks great.

With reference to Taxodium and many other plants that grow in wet areas they are often better started on a dry mound (doesn't want to be huge) then their roots can find the moisture when they are ready for it but are not drowned from day one. I used to have a 80+ ft one in a garden I worked in, it had got to that size in as many years and was growing on a bone dry area in a sandy soil however it did have access to plenty of water if it put its roots down about 6ft.

I'll post a pick of a bit of my willow windbreak later when my upload speed is better.

eirator

Photo as promised, this is a section of shelter belt that bisects our very windy garden.



Thats 2 rolls of geotextile and one is a cut up roll that started out as 4m wide and was cut down the middle with a hot knife so I think theres a 2m and a 1m section in that picture. Its quite dry there but its also a flood plain so can be very very wet up to a foot deep in water for a few hours each year.

The nearst plants you can see were a row added to bulk the shelter bed up a bit and are in their 3rd growing season having been cut to the ground after the 1st season. Can't say what variety they are as they came as job lot off eBay, I think they are one of the varieties used for biomass. There are two different varieties there but I think they are forms of the same spp because you can only tell them apart in the first 2 years of growth when the growth habit and leaf form is different.

All the planting was done directly into grass covered in geotextile, the intial planting was done in November but I leave any new planting here untill March as a windy winter can dry the cuttings out before they make roots.

Cut back hard they grow quickly back to about 8ft, what you see in the photo is about 6ft of the plants and theres a few feet above that. I've given a good few cuttings away when I cut them down and one neighbor has made a living wigwam for the kids by "planting" 4-5ft sets in a circle.

We have nearly 20 different varieties of willow planted in similar fashion but the coloured stem vars don't take very good photos at this time of year.

countrywoman

thanks a million eirator for all of the information and photos, i really appreciate all the effort you went to

paddy147

That does look pretty cool indeed.:)

paddy147

How tall would that willow grow to?

Could you use that willow as a narrow but long/tall screening along a back garden boundary wall of a house?

Would it affect the wall/foundations in any way.

eirator

Sorry, thought I had replies to this a few days ago, anyway something went wrong somewhere? Shorter version this time

Rule #1 for willows that you plan to grow as trees, keep them at least 30m from a house.

Look up willow subsidence and clay heave on google for more info.

tbh I'd also keep them clear of walls and drains especially the leach areas of sceptic tanks.

The one in the photo will grow to about 60ft if left for long enough. On our exposed site they probably wouldn't get much over 30ft.

When left after cutting right down thy tend to get quite thick at that base so not as thin as you might think. I cut down ever 2 years they go up to about 10ft or more in that time but in the second year bulk up and get quite wide.

The problem is that you need to cut them down regularly to keep them looking like the photo. On a boundary wall I might think about growing them as pollards (only one every 4ft or more) and pollarding them back to the height of the wall early each spring well before they come into growth.

paddy147

10 feet in 2 years..wow.:D

eirator

paddy147 wrote: »

10 feet in 2 years..wow.:D

Some will do that in a year but don't forget as soon as the initial growth after cutting back has occured growth slows down a good bit.

If you want really fast tree growth try a hybrid wingnut

One specimen at Kew grew an astonishing 16m (52 ft) in 17 years and the girth of the tree increases quickly as well.

paddy147

eirator wrote: »

Some will do that in a year but don't forget as soon as the initial growth after cutting back has occured growth slows down a good bit.

If you want really fast tree growth try a hybrid wingnut

Facinating indeed.

Knowing my luck,anything Id plant would pick up the wall with it as it grows upwards.:eek::D

robin3

Genuine question, is the willow good as a windbreak in winter? assuming it loses its leaves and is just bare branches?
Would love to do the wigwam thing for the kids!

eirator

robin3 wrote: »

Genuine question, is the willow good as a windbreak in winter? assuming it loses its leaves and is just bare branches?
Would love to do the wigwam thing for the kids!

Depends what you call a windbreak? Even with no leaves the willow will filter the wind enough to allow plants to grow on the lee side that might otherwise be damaged by the wind. Just reducing the wind by a small percentage is sometimes all it takes.

But don't forget if you cut them all down in one go in spring then you will have no windbreak when you need it most.

mr chips

OP, I was warned against planting dogwood due to its tendency to proliferate - it will send out roots and put up new seedlings in other nearby ground, the way that nettles, buttercup and wild raspberries do. If you think this won't be a problem for you then fire ahead, as it's a pretty and fast-growing shrub, but you will have to keep on top of it.

eirator

mr chips wrote: »

OP, I was warned against planting dogwood due to its tendency to proliferate - it will send out roots and put up new seedlings in other nearby ground, the way that nettles, buttercup and wild raspberries do. If you think this won't be a problem for you then fire ahead, as it's a pretty and fast-growing shrub, but you will have to keep on top of it.

I'd get a better source of advise, dogwoods rarely if ever produce seedlings and don't send up shoots from the roots. If left for long enough they will root as the outer branches touch the ground but they are only going to do that if there is space for them to do so most gardens tend to be full of plants so there isn't much room. The odd stem rooted plant is always handy for somewhere else in the garden or to swap with another gardener.

If planted on mass on the side of a road and left for years then they do a good bit of stem rooting but in those conditions thats a good thing not a bad thing. A once a year hard pruning in spring when grown as a garden, plant which is needed to give the best display of new coloured shoots anyway, is hardly high maintenance and will easily keep them under control.