Asylum Seekers /Immigration.

VEN

starbelgrade wrote: »

If you have a job & you are as wealthy as you say you are, then why were you posting this in the State Benefits forum in relation to Rent Supplement Renewals?

because a pointless irrelevant question about my own personal affairs deserves a bull**** answer.

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

The access to the welfare system should be restricted for new EU citizens.
The asylum process and decisions should be quicker without appeals.
The airlines and ferries that carry asylum seekers who tear up their passports should be fined and obliged to return them to origin.Russia imposes a 12000 Euro fine .

Try doing some basic research before posting rubbish.
Access to welfare is denied to all citizens including Irish who do not meet the habitual residency requirements.

VEN

SocSocPol wrote: »

Obviously a criminal who is scamming the welfare since he is wealthy.
I love it when liars get caught out like this.

obviously not then

VEN

SocSocPol wrote: »

You get real, We cant close the gate on EU citizens, thats the law, end of!
as for those seeking refugee status or asylum, we have an International obligation to investigate their cases and if they are genuine to grant such status.

and that is the problem, the whole Euro EU joke

SocSocPol

VEN wrote: »

because a pointless irrelevant question about my own personal affairs deserves a bull**** answer.

Caught red handed telling lies, scarlet for ya!

VEN

atkin wrote: »

Michael Noonan yesterday 'We spend more than we earn'

then tomorrow he says "we need to spend more to get the economy moving"

he hasn't a clue

SocSocPol

VEN wrote: »

then tomorrow he says "we need to spend more to get the economy moving"

he hasn't a clue

I wonder does get rent supplement while being very wealthy....like you:D

VEN

SocSocPol wrote: »

Caught red handed telling lies, scarlet for ya!

:pac: asking someone "have you got a job?" implying "oh don't dare talk about illegal immigration if you have no job, you have no voice etc"

my personal affairs brought onto this thread is none of your business.

Nippledragon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

Nippledragon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

Micky Dolenz

SocSocPol wrote: »

I wonder does get rent supplement while being very wealthy....like you:D

Mod

Play the ball not the man.

No more flaming.

atkin

SocSocPol wrote: »

Try doing some basic research before posting rubbish.
Access to welfare is denied to all citizens including Irish who do not meet the habitual residency requirements.

You need to be resident here for 2 years and show some permanent reason for being here. There is no mention of the period worked here to claim welfare?? When I started work in 1974 it was 3 years before you even got a welfare payment!!!!!!!

fasttalkerchat

atkin wrote: »

You need to be resident here for 2 years and show some permanent reason for being here. There is no mention of the period worked here to claim welfare??

Why would you come here for benefits? You would have to support yourself for 2 years first! If you have €30k in savings you wouldn't leave your own country.

atkin

When I started work it was 3 years before you even got a welfare payment!!!!!!!

walrusgumble

atkin wrote: »

The government had an Asylum agreement that you could only seek asylum at the first port of entry

Wrong, it implemented an asylum agreement as per the UNHCR and now, the EU.

Dublin Convention has being held to be wrongly interpreted, and not fit for its purpose. The policy is also utterly unworkable as it is clear if one looks at why Italy and Greece have had big problems.

A person may apply at any destination. But, if Britain was their first port of call and could have applied there (as oppose to transit) that might go against them.

atkin wrote: »

.The majority not disputed have come from the UK and sought asylum here when they were refused in the UK

If you applied for asylum in the UK, then, Ireland have no reason to even consider the first interview for an asylum case. It is required as Per Dublin Convention then to send them back to UK.

So, I have to ask you, and assuming this people at all times retained their real names and id, "refused" what "in the UK"?

Visitor visas perhaps?

Yes they did come from the UK however.

atkin wrote: »

.There was no agreement on information sharing to identify them.They come and still do across the non existent border from Northern Ireland

.

Ironically, many of the taxi drivers that now piss and moan, took the fare and brought them here as border controls were present up to 2001 (army and guardaí) and GNIB were active searching public transport!!!! ( I witnessed it 4 times) Safe to come via taxi if they had the money

atkin wrote: »

There was also the Irish born children rule and that parents could get citizenship here if a child was born .

Being banned, maybe the ground was: Your a retard who can't even get simple facts correct!

There was no rule in giving mother citizenship on the basis of birth of a child. The rule was that the mother got residency , a right to live here. If she wanted citizenship, she had to naturalise, which was not guaranteed.

Fool

atkin wrote: »

.A referendum changed this rule in 2004.

The referendum only changed the rule

On when a child could be an Irish Citizen. See Section 6A of Citizenship act 1956, as amended by Section 4 of 2004 Act.

Case law said parentage to child is NOT a guaranteed right any more (this has being kind of diluted via EU law in some cases)

atkin wrote: »

Most live in rented accommodation now provided by the state and welfare .I believe many will never work .Over 90% of asylum claims are false it could be even 95%.

Your not completely far off, maybe 75-80%

You should look at orac.ie and refappeal.ie for the annual stats.

atkin wrote: »

In 2006 the government allowed new EU members to come with only the restriction that they need to work 2 years before they can claim welfare.

They are allowed 5 years (Directive 24.2 2004/38EC)
THis does not include right to certain allowances with a job seeker is entitled to (not consider social benefit!!!!)

atkin wrote: »

The new EU members can claim welfare here and also a child allowance even if the children do not live here.

Thank Article 7 Regulation 1612/68 and its case law for that. We Irish can do that in England etc

atkin wrote: »

The welfare is less in Poland for example.

Irish decision, no one forced us.

atkin wrote: »

These new EU immigrants worked here believing that they had a future but many lost their jobs and now claim welfare.

EU Law protects your right to stay if you worked for a number of years and lost your job through no fault of your own, or you obtained permanent residency, or you don't meet those conditions but a child is in school here.

The same for Irish in England

atkin wrote: »

There is an increase in the issue of Irish passports which will give our 'new Irish' rights to bring family here.

The increase is due to the increase in the amount who applied since 2008-2009. Conditions are not strict however.

atkin wrote: »

There was a warning in 2006 that when EU structural funds finished it would mean a slow down in the economy.
What is astonishing the government heeded no warnings and examples of immigration in other countries.

Even if it wanted to, EU law, when dealing with EU people would interrupt. IN criticisms, its interpretation have become unprincipled and far too liberal and beyond what countries and even Commission believed in.

atkin wrote: »

I have worked 38 years and lost my job.

And before that probably opposed any one who uttered opposition to them immigrants

atkin wrote: »

I now queue for welfare and see those that just came here by deception getting money with a smile on their faces. This is not racist I just feel let down by government. There is now cuts to welfare,property tax and water rates.The number of Irish leaving is to work abroad is 40,000 each year 2009-2011. We export workers and import immigrants to claim welfare and state housing.

Even if these "wacists" were right, there still might have been legal problems (not so much non EU people)

Minority groups shouted louder and politicians ran away. The majority were indifferent because everyone got sucked into the bull ****e emotional blackmail (and often utterly incomparable) comparisons with the Irish in America etc

atkin wrote: »

Remember foreigners are racist too and that includes blacks.I attended an international college of many nationalities and was subject to racial taunts from blacks.I did not take it serious however.

Tell him to keep his mouth shut if he knew what is good for him. GNIB boys are always round, not all "daddys" are really playing a role in their "irish child"'s life.

atkin wrote: »

The illegal Irish in the USA work do not claim welfare and some even pay taxes. We are not a nation that had colonies but were ruled by Britain and were downtrodden.Looks like we are now fair game again or the usual phrase a SOFT TOUCH .

We never applied for asylum or lied about our country

atkin wrote: »

Jaysus you can find sheep easier than illegals and shop around asylum seekers

Thank the media and everyone who was speaking loud, but actually knew NOTHING about the area

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

When I started work it was 3 years before you even got a welfare payment!!!!!!!

Welfare payments such as assistance payments have NEVER required a work history, get your facts right.

atkin

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Why would you come here for benefits? You would have to support yourself for 2 years first! If you have €30k in savings you wouldn't leave your own country.

You have family here one reason

fasttalkerchat

atkin wrote: »

When I started work it was 3 years before you even got a welfare payment!!!!!!!

Did you start work at 15?

atkin

SocSocPol wrote: »

Welfare payments such as assistance payments have NEVER required a work history, get your facts right.

Not so in 1974

fasttalkerchat

atkin wrote: »

You have family here one reason

So you live off your family for 2 years then start claiming? How long would it take to pay off the 2 years and make it viable for the whole family?

atkin

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Did you start work at 15?

NO 18

Micky Dolenz

We have a lot to be thankful in this part of the world. Very very few of us have had to flee our home country because we were in fear of our lives or the lives of our family.

However I've spent the best years of my life being an economic immigrant. This is another freedom afforded to me solely due to what part of the world I happened to be born in. In fact recently I've become one again and am free to travel and work as I please in most parts of Europe and countries beyond.

Immigration is a two way street. Could systems be improved? no doubt they could, no system will ever be perfect and people, some people will abuse it.

atkin

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So you live off your family for 2 years then start claiming? How long would it take to pay off the 2 years and make it viable for the whole family?

The reality is unemployment will continue to remain high and new EU immigrants will remain because welfare is better than the homeland.They can send the child benefit to those not living here.I know of one girl in Poland who is 27 years and pretends she is at University so the parents can get child benefit.

fasttalkerchat

atkin wrote: »

NO 18

I don't know what happened in your case then. If you were born here when you reached 18 and left school you should have been able to get benefits right away. Its probably too late to claim anything now.

atkin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We have a lot to be thankful in this part of the world. Very very few of us have had to flee our home country because we were in fear of our lives or the lives of our family.

However I've spent the best years of my life being an economic immigrant. This is another freedom afforded to me solely due to what part of the world I happened to be born in. In fact recently I've become one again and am free to travel and work as I please in most parts of Europe and countries beyond.

Immigration is a two way street. Could systems be improved? no doubt they could, no system will ever be perfect and people, some people will abuse it.

Most are economic migrants .

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

The reality is unemployment will continue to remain high and new EU immigrants will remain because welfare is better than the homeland.They can send the child benefit to those not living here.I know of one girl in Poland who is 27 years and pretends she is at University so the parents can get child benefit.

Any chance of some actual evidence for your claims or are they all "I heard of, I know of" stories that you have made up to flame the thread?
And again NEW EU IMMIGRANTS DONT GET WELFARE! THEY MUST PASS THE HABITUAL RESIDENCY RULE!

MAR86

Hi,

I am one of those EU nationals that many people don't like, which is Romanian, working and studying here, i don't claim benefits, dole, etc.

There are a few laws that most of you don't know about because you are not a foreigner, therefore these laws have little or no interest for you:

-an EU national can claim the dole after 2 years of work, min. 104 weeks PRSI contributions, legal work, not cash in hand.

- a child born in Ireland doesn't entitle the parent to citizenship or social welfare. If the parent has been working in Ireland, legally, for a number of years, the child might receive an Irish passport, which means the parent is entitled to stay and work here

In relation to foreigners moving to Ireland just to claim the dole, I think this is a bit far fetched.
Rough number of foreigners in Ireland (EU + non-EU): 400K
Rough number of people on the dole in Ireland: 400K

It is impossible that all the people on the dole are foreigners....this would mean that all Irish nationals are employed.

I promised myself not to read threads such as this one never ever in my life, but here I am, I did it again, ughhh!:mad:

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

Not so in 1974

Yes so in 1974, Unemployment assistance was available to those with no stamps or too few stamps for Unemployment Benifit, as was Supplementry Welfare Allowance (or the relieving officer as it was generally know as in those days).

atkin

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I don't know what happened in your case then. If you were born here when you reached 18 and left school you should have been able to get benefits right away. Its probably too late to claim anything now.

I was living at home at the time.I moved to Dublin and they would not grant assistance as I was only living there a short time.I got a job after 2 months.

Unemployment Assistance ACT 1935 and applied in 1974.
(c) a person who at the relevant time is and for not less than five consecutive years immediately preceding that time has been ordinarily resident in Saorstát Eireann.

atkin

MAR86 wrote: »

Hi,

I am one of those EU nationals that many people don't like, which is Romanian, working and studying here, i don't claim benefits, dole, etc.

There are a few laws that most of you don't know about because you are not a foreigner, therefore these laws have little or no interest for you:

-an EU national can claim the dole after 2 years of work, min. 104 weeks PRSI contributions, legal work, not cash in hand.

- a child born in Ireland doesn't entitle the parent to citizenship or social welfare. If the parent has been working in Ireland, legally, for a number of years, the child might receive an Irish passport, which means the parent is entitled to stay and work here

In relation to foreigners moving to Ireland just to claim the dole, I think this is a bit far fetched.
Rough number of foreigners in Ireland (EU + non-EU): 400K
Rough number of people on the dole in Ireland: 400K

It is impossible that all the people on the dole are foreigners....this would mean that all Irish nationals are employed.

I promised myself not to read threads such as this one never ever in my life, but here I am, I did it again, ughhh!:mad:

The census 2011 shows 766,000 foreigners given our initial population of 3.63 million 16 years ago is quite alarming. How would you feel if it happen in Romania ?

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

I was living at home at the time.I moved to Dublin and they would not grant assistance as I was only living there a short time.I got a job after 2 months.

Unemployment Assistance ACT 1935 and applied in 1974.
(c) a person who at the relevant time is and for not less than five consecutive years immediately preceding that time has been ordinarily resident in Saorstát Eireann.

No person after 1937 could live in Saoratat Eireann, it ceased to exist after 1937.

atkin

SocSocPol wrote: »

No person after 1937 could live in Saoratat Eireann, it ceased to exist after 1937.

Well Irish Republic then satisfied. I assume you can enlighten me as to why this rule was disposed of.

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

The census 2011 shows 766,000 foreigners given our initial population of 3.63 million 16 years ago is quite alarming. How would you feel if it happen in Romania ?

I dont think its in the least bit alarming

Micky Dolenz

atkin wrote: »

The census 2011 shows 766,000 foreigners given our initial population of 3.63 million 16 years ago is quite alarming. How would you feel if it happen in Romania ?

Restricting movement inside the EU is a no go. I'm a foreigner, would you suggest my movement be restricted?

Have you ever thought about leaving Ireland to get a job? It's happening more and more these days.

christmas2012

The census 2011 shows 766,000 foreigners given our initial population of 3.63 million 16 years ago is quite alarming. How would you feel if it happen in Romania ?

I think it is very alarming,and i have nothing against foreigners but of course there are some that will spin it that way,but there is a huge problem here and it needs to be recitified,why change ireland beyond all recognition?why is it so important to do that?and who is behind all this drive?why should we turn ireland into a parody of what the uk is right now it makes no sense..if this happened in the middle east there would be huge outcry and outright war on us..

atkin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Restricting movement inside the EU is a no go. I'm a foreigner, would you suggest my movement be restricted?

Have you ever thought about leaving Ireland to get a job? It's happening more and more these days.

I am 56 too old .I wanted to teach English too old.I cannot claim welfare if I leave even to look. I lived for 6 months last year abroad .I know I should leave to make room for the 'new Irish' and stop complaining.40,000 Irish leave each year.

atkin

atkin wrote: »

I am 56 too old .I wanted to teach English too old.I cannot claim welfare if I leave even to look. I lived for 6 months last year abroad .I know I should leave to make room for the 'new Irish' and stop complaining.40,000 Irish leave each year.

Restrict movement I never said that Welfare yes.

MAR86

atkin wrote: »

The census 2011 shows 766,000 foreigners given our initial population of 3.63 million 16 years ago is quite alarming. How would you feel if it happen in Romania ?

Well, I just saw another graph published by the EU showing around 400K foreigners in Ireland, but i can't say who is right or wrong.

But even so, they can't be all on social welfare, you have to qualify for it, it's not like you come here and go straight away to the tax office and ask for money. You have to work legally, pay taxes, have a P45

If it were to happen to Romania, we could cope with it, considering we have a population of around 20 milion, but I don't think there's too many people packing their bags to move there

Micky Dolenz

atkin wrote: »

I am 56 too old .I wanted to teach English too old.I cannot claim welfare if I leave even to look. I lived for 6 months last year abroad .I know I should leave to make room for the 'new Irish' and stop complaining.40,000 Irish leave each year.

Would you like to see those 40,000 having their movement restricted?

How was your six months of being a foreigner?

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

The census 2011 shows 766,000 foreigners given our initial population of 3.63 million 16 years ago is quite alarming. How would you feel if it happen in Romania ?

No it does not, it show that 766,000 people born outside the state, however only 544,357 non Irish nationals were living in Ireland at the time of the 2011 census.
"Overall, 544,357 non-Irish nationals were living in Ireland at the time of the 2011 census, an increase of 29.7 per cent or 124,624 on 2006, some 12 per cent of the population".

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

I am 56 too old .I wanted to teach English too old.I cannot claim welfare if I leave even to look. I lived for 6 months last year abroad .I know I should leave to make room for the 'new Irish' and stop complaining.40,000 Irish leave each year.

Oh please do

fasttalkerchat

SocSocPol wrote: »

No it does not, it show that 766,000 people born outside the state, however only 544,357 non Irish nationals were living in Ireland at the time of the 2011 census.
"Overall, 544,357 non-Irish nationals were living in Ireland at the time of the 2011 census, an increase of 29.7 per cent or 124,624 on 2006, some 12 per cent of the population".

I might be wrong, but Irish citizens born in the 6 counties would be classed as born outside the state so that makes the actual figure even lower.

atkin

SocSocPol wrote: »

No it does not, it show that 766,000 people born outside the state, however only 544,357 non Irish nationals were living in Ireland at the time of the 2011 census.
"Overall, 544,357 non-Irish nationals were living in Ireland at the time of the 2011 census, an increase of 29.7 per cent or 124,624 on 2006, some 12 per cent of the population".

So can you enlighten me as to the position of 221.000 born outside the state ?

I am staying here .

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

So can you enlighten me as to the position of 221.000 born outside the state ?

I am staying here .

what 321,000?

Sappa

You got to love these threads,the same old posters I could name them but won't,keep making jokes about swans and free prams to ridicule the thread as they are afraid to face the facts that this is a problem in Ireland and our systems are being massively abused.
I for one hope that Ireland does not go like the UK,it's a disaster just take a few certain cities like Bradford and Burnley,you would find it hard to find a White English speaking person.

fasttalkerchat

atkin wrote: »

So can you enlighten me as to the position of 221.000 born outside the state ? They are all from Northern Ireland.

I am staying here .

Irish nationals born elsewhere... I'm guessing many of them born in NI.

fasttalkerchat

Sappa wrote: »

You got to love these threads,the same old posters I could name them but won't,keep making jokes about swans and free prams to ridicule the thread as they are afraid to face the facts that this is a problem in Ireland and our systems are being massively abused.
I for one hope that Ureland does not go like the UK,it's a disaster with certain cities like Bradford and Burnley,you would find it hard to find a White English man.

What a terrible place to live.. Dark faces everywhere! :rolleyes::pac::pac:

atkin

There are many foreigners hate Irish what's the second generation going to be like. Riots like the UK.

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

So can you enlighten me as to the position of 221.000 born outside the state ?

I am staying here .

766,000 minus 544,357 = 221,643.
They can be accounted for by various means, Irish citizens born outside of Ireland of Irish Parents who returned to this country, Persons granted Irish Citzenship having lived here long to obtain it which now makes them Irish Nationals.

atkin

SocSocPol wrote: »

what 321,000?

221.000 still waiting to be enlightened