Asylum Seekers /Immigration.

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

There are many foreigners hate Irish what's the second generation going to be like. Riots like the UK.

Evidence for this rabble rousing and inflammatory statement?

Micky Dolenz

atkin wrote: »

There are many foreigners hate Irish what's the second generation going to be like. Riots like the UK.

Have you any basis to back this generalization up?

Again, would you be in favour of restricting the movement of Irish people out of Ireland?

atkin

SocSocPol wrote: »

766,000 minus 544,357 = 221,643.
They can be accounted for by various means, Irish citizens born outside of Ireland of Irish Parents who returned to this country, Persons granted Irish Citzenship having lived here long to obtain it which now makes them Irish Nationals.

Well this still means inward migration to a country with high unemployment.
Regardless of how accurate your statement is.

Sappa

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Sappa wrote: »

You got to love these threads,the same old posters I could name them but won't,keep making jokes about swans and free prams to ridicule the thread as they are afraid to face the facts that this is a problem in Ireland and our systems are being massively abused.
I for one hope that Ureland does not go like the UK,it's a disaster with certain cities like Bradford and Burnley,you would find it hard to find a White English man.

What a terrible place to live.. Dark faces everywhere! :rolleyes::pac::pac:

Give it a try and see of you like it when your own culture is not accepted in these cities and they would rather Muslim law than British law and can't be bothered to speak the countries language.
I'm all for a bit of integration but we should look to Europe and see Brussels,Geneva,Paris have all been over run with immigration and this has lead to a breakdown in services,increased crime and poverty.
The whole project is flawed and needs restructuring,what might have worked in the 70's 80's does not work now and a new approach us needed,Ireland will go the same way.

schemingbohemia

atkin wrote: »

221.000 still waiting to be enlightened

220,999 I'm one, born outside the state to Irish parents, living here since the age of 1, I'm white though does that mean I can stay?

atkin

SocSocPol wrote: »

Evidence for this rabble rousing and inflammatory statement?

from meeting foreigners maybe you don't.

MAR86

atkin wrote: »

There are many foreigners hate Irish what's the second generation going to be like. Riots like the UK.

I think you are wrong, I for one would love to be integrated more in the Irish culture and society, I would love to have Irish friends (if I wanted to hang out with my own people, I wouldn't have left my country), but it is so difficult because of these prejudices...I would like to make Ireland my second home, but it is close to impossible because of these preconceived judgment that I am here to claim, steal and so on.

munchkin_utd

atkin wrote: »

The census 2011 shows 766,000 foreigners given our initial population of 3.63 million 16 years ago is quite alarming. How would you feel if it happen in Romania ?

actually.....

Romanias solution to having a large ethnic german population living there after the war was to send them to the work (aka death) camps in Siberia on the request of Stalin aparantly.

ok that was in the aftermath of a war, but you did ask what Romania might have done with unwanted foreigners!

PS. I first heard about this at the Dachau Concentration camp as our tour guide was the decendant of these germans. The story only came to light as some american asked her why such a young person would want to volunteer to spend time giving tours around a concentration camp. Her family background meant she had a personal interest in the matter, abeit the other way round.

fasttalkerchat

Sappa wrote: »

Give it a try and see of you like it when your own culture is not accepted in these cities and they would rather Muslim law than British law and can't be bothered to speak the countries language.
I'm all for a bit of integration but we should look to Europe and see Brussels,Geneva,Paris have all been over run with immigration and this has lead to a breakdown in services,increased crime and poverty.
The whole project is flawed and needs restructuring,what might have worked in the 70's 80's does not work now and a new approach us needed,Ireland will go the same way.

Some Muslims want to ban alcohol. Some Christians want to ban divorce and being gay. Both can go **** themselves in equal measures. It doesn't mean we should deport either.

Micky Dolenz

atkin wrote: »

from meeting foreigners maybe you don't.

What does this mean?


You really need to look at your rigid opinions, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Frank Grimes

MAR86 wrote: »

I would like to make Ireland my second home, but it is close to impossible because of these preconceived judgment that I am here to claim, steal and so on.

Not everyone here is that stupid believe me, don't give up!

atkin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Have you any basis to back this generalization up?

Again, would you be in favour of restricting the movement of Irish people out of Ireland?

To visit most non EU countries requires a visa and can be restrictive.

SocSocPol

Sappa wrote: »

Give it a try and see of you like it when your own culture is not accepted in these cities and they would rather Muslim law than British law and can't be bothered to speak the countries language.
I'm all for a bit of integration but we should look to Europe and see Brussels,Geneva,Paris have all been over run with immigration and this has lead to a breakdown in services,increased crime and poverty.
The whole project is flawed and needs restructuring,what might have worked in the 70's 80's does not work now and a new approach us needed,Ireland will go the same way.

Brussels,Geneva,Paris have all been over run with immigration and this has lead to a breakdown in services,increased crime and poverty
Link to Evidence of this?

atkin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

What does this mean?


You really need to look at your rigid opinions, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

What is your solution ??

Micky Dolenz

atkin wrote: »

To visit most non EU countries requires a visa and can be restrictive.

Just to make it simple. Would you be in favour of restricted movement of Irish people within the EU?

SocSocPol

atkin wrote: »

from meeting foreigners maybe you don't.

In other words you just made it up to stir the sh*te

MAR86

munchkin_utd wrote: »

actually.....

Romanias solution to having a large ethnic german population living there after the war was to send them to the work (aka death) camps in Siberia on the request of Stalin aparantly.

ok that was in the aftermath of a war, but you did ask what Romania might have done with unwanted foreigners!

PS. I first heard about this at the Dachau Concentration camp as our tour guide was the decendant of these germans. The story only came to light as some american asked her why such a young person would want to volunteer to spend time giving tours around a concentration camp. Her family background meant she had a personal interest in the matter, abeit the other way round.

This is so funny, i think you should blame the Russians for that...Have you seen the size of Russia and the size of Romania? You don't play games with Russia. If they would have asked us to kill ourselves, we would have done it for fear

walrusgumble

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We have a lot to be thankful in this part of the world. Very very few of us have had to flee our home country because we were in fear of our lives or the lives of our family.

Very few of the asylum claimants have to "flee" their countries either. They are economic migrants and not asylum seekers. If your the latter, you should apply for work permits. Work permits are issued when there is a shortage in the work force. Few of these documents are issued because for the jobs that are available, they can or should be easily filled by Irish or other EU people.

There are no wars or unavoidable acts of persecution for most ordinary citizens in Nigeria, Ghana, Georgia, Pakistan and previously, Romania. Country of Origin Reports consistently point out that State Protection and NGO assistance and Internal Relocation is available in these common countries. UNHCR says economic motives are not grounds constituting persecution.

And we have not even started with analyzing the claims that lack any sort of proof, or credibility or ability to give consistent and non contradictory answers to simple questions asked by the decision makers.

We were not born yesterday Micky.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

However I've spent the best years of my life being an economic immigrant. This is another freedom afforded to me solely due to what part of the world I happened to be born in. In fact recently I've become one again and am free to travel and work as I please in most parts of Europe and countries beyond.

Assuming your not Irish or Citizen of another EU state

You came lawfully and on a lawful basis. I presume you came via work permit, thus your presence in whatever country was approved and invited. Whether you like it or not, the club called Europe can't take everyone in and has absolutely no obligation to do so when it is unable to do so.I presume you have always being (since the country of birth, wherever it is joined the EU/EEC) or a now an EU citizen (naturalised)

If you are Irish, you had rights to do all of this, as you know

These rights did not come about by accident. Your country and others came about and drew up a plan on how it could deal with its people. You and I benefit from this plan due to not our country of birth (rules vary, but hard not to assume one is a citizen of the country of birth automatically) but where we are citizens

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Immigration is a two way street.

The only questions that is relevant is, can the host state take the person in, or does it need him and is there an obligation via rules on family reunification or refugee law, to take him in. Secondary to this, can the immigrant integrate into society, are there safeguards for him.

What is best for that country.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Could systems be improved? no doubt they could, no system will ever be perfect and people, some people will abuse it.

True on all fronts. Australia might be worth looking at.

Micky Dolenz

atkin wrote: »

What is your solution ??

I'm an Irish person living and working in another country, things suit me fine. I've actually spent the majority of my professional career working outside of Ireland so things suit me the way they are.

fasttalkerchat

MAR86 wrote: »

I think you are wrong, I for one would love to be integrated more in the Irish culture and society, I would love to have Irish friends (if I wanted to hang out with my own people, I wouldn't have left my country), but it is so difficult because of these prejudices...I would like to make Ireland my second home, but it is close to impossible because of these preconceived judgment that I am here to claim, steal and so on.

Romania is a tough one... there would be that perception because people who we identify as Romanian would dress in a certain way and seem to have some negative aspects in common. I know one Romanian woman who is totally different and says that the Roma are not from her country.
Unfortunately we don't recognise non-Roma Romanians as being from Romania so there is the idea that all Romanians are bad.

atkin

munchkin_utd wrote: »

actually.....

Romanias solution to having a large ethnic german population living there after the war was to send them to the work (aka death) camps in Siberia on the request of Stalin aparantly.

ok that was in the aftermath of a war, but you did ask what Romania might have done with unwanted foreigners!

PS. I first heard about this at the Dachau Concentration camp as our tour guide was the decendant of these germans. The story only came to light as some american asked her why such a young person would want to volunteer to spend time giving tours around a concentration camp. Her family background meant she had a personal interest in the matter, abeit the other way round.

Well you cannot blame us for trying to get rid of your gypsies .We have have enough of our own.

Mod note: banned

alastair

atkin wrote: »

I am 56 too old .I wanted to teach English too old.I cannot claim welfare if I leave even to look. I lived for 6 months last year abroad .I know I should leave to make room for the 'new Irish' and stop complaining.40,000 Irish leave each year.

Going over there and taking their jobs?! Alarming!

alastair

Sappa wrote: »

You got to love these threads,the same old posters I could name them but won't,keep making jokes about swans and free prams to ridicule the thread as they are afraid to face the facts that this is a problem in Ireland and our systems are being massively abused.
I for one hope that Ireland does not go like the UK,it's a disaster just take a few certain cities like Bradford and Burnley,you would find it hard to find a White English speaking person.

That Yorkshire accent can be a bit tricky alright.

Frank Grimes

walrusgumble wrote: »

There are no wars or unavoidable acts of persecution for most ordinary citizens in Nigeria, Ghana, Georgia, Pakistan and previously, Romania.

I can't comment on the other states, but this is not true in the case of Pakistan. Read up on the Ahmadiyya, and Christians to a lesser extent, and how they are treated by the state itself along with the various militant groups operating in Pakistan.

atkin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Just to make it simple. Would you be in favour of restricted movement of Irish people within the EU?

I lived and worked in Holland for 6 months in 1977 .I remember going to an employment office to look for work.They told me Ireland was not part of the EU and I should not be there.

alastair

atkin wrote: »

Well you cannot blame us for trying to get rid of your gypsies .We have have enough of our own.

No racism there then.

atkin

alastair wrote: »

Going over there and taking their jobs?! Alarming!

No the welfare is better here .

Micky Dolenz

atkin wrote: »

I lived and worked in Holland for 6 months in 1977 .I remember going to an employment office to look for work.They told me Ireland was not part of the EU and I should not be there.

That doesn't answer my question.

And didn't Ireland join in the early 70's?

atkin

alastair wrote: »

No racism there then.

Ok open the doors let all in and give em welfare free houses from the ghost estates.You happy now.

fasttalkerchat

atkin wrote: »

I lived and worked in Holland for 6 months in 1977 .I remember going to an employment office to look for work.They told me Ireland was not part of the EU and I should not be there.

They were right.
The Maastricht Treaty established the European Union under its current name in 1993.

walrusgumble

atkin wrote: »

To visit most non EU countries requires a visa and can be restrictive.

IRish people need a visa into Europe?

Or you mean Non Irish / Non EU people who reside in Ireland lawfully (and have no Eu family) who want to enter other EU countries?

If it is the second case, then there is no EU law(ie free movement) at issue in the first place, bar schegen

MAR86

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Romania is a tough one... there would be that perception because people who we identify as Romanian would dress in a certain way and seem to have some negative aspects in common. I know one Romanian woman who is totally different and says that the Roma are not from her country.
Unfortunately we don't recognise non-Roma Romanians as being from Romania so there is the idea that all Romanians are bad.

I know that, I can't forget because i see them on the streets with their paper cups asking for change :mad: I just hope that soon enough they'll leave the country as there aren't too many people now giving them money

atkin

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

That doesn't answer my question.

And didn't Ireland join in the early 70's?

yes 1973 .
What is your question ? I should leave like you and find a better life .

alastair

atkin wrote: »

Ok open the doors let all in and give em welfare free houses from the ghost estates.You happy now.

Just happy to help expose your underlying issue - frankly I'd rather deal with a few economic migrants chancing their arm with the limited options regarding immigration, than embittered racists who can't spot the irony of their own economic migrancy history. At least the cuisine payoff is better.

SocSocPol

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

That doesn't answer my question.

And didn't Ireland join in the early 70's?

January 1st 1973

walrusgumble

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

They were right.
The Maastricht Treaty established the European Union under its current name in 1993.

After Ireland joined the EEC, the Dutch would be wrong.

There was the EEC. Free movement was present from day 1 in the 1950's. Laws on Free movement has not substantially changed in core princple since then. Plenty of case law and legislation was in place before 1993

You could not be discriminated on the basis of your nationality. You had the right to work there. Case law later in the 1980's said that you had a right to move and look for work


The poster that you were referring to , got screwed the law was being broken


1993 brought the concept of EU citizenship. Initially that was thought of being a mere label. But, in the last few years the concept has been used to keep people (mostly non EU people ) to stay on basis of family connection to EU citizens, who themselves would not comply with ordinary free movement rules in the Treaty and legislation

Think before you type next time.

atkin

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

They were right.
The Maastricht Treaty established the European Union under its current name in 1993.

Well I went to another employment office and the guy said start tomorrow.
Steal a bike if you have to get there I don't care .

walrusgumble

alastair wrote: »

Just happy to help expose your underlying issue - frankly I'd rather deal with a few economic migrants chancing their arm with the limited options regarding immigration, than embittered racists who can't spot the irony of their own economic migrancy history. At least the cuisine payoff is better.

It is totally irrelevant when you speak to Irish people who have lived and worked here all their lives and never emigrated. If your stupid enough that this has to be pointed out , then your not worth the hassle

Micky Dolenz

atkin wrote: »

yes 1973 .
What is your question ? I should leave like you and find a better life .

Spent many a good, interesting year being a foreigner.Maybe you should give it a shot again.

Would you be in favour of restricted movement of Irish people within the EU?

alastair

walrusgumble wrote: »

It is totally irrelevant when you speak to Irish people who have lived and worked here all their lives and never emigrated. If your stupid enough that this has to be pointed out , then your not worth the hassle

Ehh - My post was directed to an individual - who was open enough about the fact they had moved abroad for work. Aside from that - you're free to fire ahead. :rolleyes:

walrusgumble

alastair wrote: »

Ehh - My post was directed to an individual - who was open enough about the fact they had moved abroad for work. Aside from that - you're free to fire ahead. :rolleyes:

I am very sorry, I misread that.

Sappa

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Sappa wrote: »

Give it a try and see of you like it when your own culture is not accepted in these cities and they would rather Muslim law than British law and can't be bothered to speak the countries language.
I'm all for a bit of integration but we should look to Europe and see Brussels,Geneva,Paris have all been over run with immigration and this has lead to a breakdown in services,increased crime and poverty.
The whole project is flawed and needs restructuring,what might have worked in the 70's 80's does not work now and a new approach us needed,Ireland will go the same way.

Some Muslims want to ban alcohol. Some Christians want to ban divorce and being gay. Both can go **** themselves in equal measures. It doesn't mean we should deport either.

You clearly didn't get my point,they don't want their adopted countries culture they want there own culture and rules and the adopted society to give them this.
You can't compare Christians wanting bo divorce to ethnic minorities ostracising themselves to society and ghettoising entire localities of major cities.

Sappa

SocSocPol wrote: »

Sappa wrote: »

Give it a try and see of you like it when your own culture is not accepted in these cities and they would rather Muslim law than British law and can't be bothered to speak the countries language.
I'm all for a bit of integration but we should look to Europe and see Brussels,Geneva,Paris have all been over run with immigration and this has lead to a breakdown in services,increased crime and poverty.
The whole project is flawed and needs restructuring,what might have worked in the 70's 80's does not work now and a new approach us needed,Ireland will go the same way.

Brussels,Geneva,Paris have all been over run with immigration and this has lead to a breakdown in services,increased crime and poverty
Link to Evidence of this?

Link to personal experience,I've worked in them all and had a first hand experience of this as fact.
Life isn't one big statistical graph,you seem very naieve.

SocSocPol

Sappa wrote: »

Link to personal experience,I've worked in them all and had a first hand experience of this as fact.
Life isn't one big statistical graph,you seem very naieve.

I have lived and worked in both Paris and Leiden and have not seen evidence of this.
I take it by "personal experience" you mean its just your opinion, not fact , no evidence.

Micky Dolenz

Sappa wrote: »

Link to personal experience,I've worked in them all and had a first hand experience of this as fact.
Life isn't one big statistical graph,you seem very naieve.

I've worked in two of the three and services there, leave those found in Ireland to shame.

Sappa

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Sappa wrote: »

Link to personal experience,I've worked in them all and had a first hand experience of this as fact.
Life isn't one big statistical graph,you seem very naieve.

I've worked in two of the three and services there, leave those found in Ireland to shame.

Ha ha don't get me started on the level of services here compared to the continent.
Definitely there health,transport and infrastructure is far better than ours but when immigration first took hold of these places they did just like Ireland,nothing.
Cue 20-30 yrs later and it is a major problem for these places and they have themselves to blame,riots in Paris being one.
I first worked in Geneva 12 yrs ago,it was a safe clean place with a European feel.
I took my wife on hols there last yr and I could not believe the change for the worse,it has become just like Brussels,swamped with young north Africans hanging around,that safe feeling is well gone and crime isxno a problem in Geneva.
You need controls and this can all be predicted,x amount extra people in the country x amount new demand on public services and social assistance.
If our governments followed real policies and used proper planning them they can predict the impact 5-10 yrs down the road and plan for this,hence why free movement is such a strain on Ireland.
Gonna bow out of this now as work to do.

christmas2012

Some Muslims want to ban alcohol. Some Christians want to ban divorce and being gay. Both can go **** themselves in equal measures. It doesn't mean we should deport either.

Once we let religious foreign and some native nuts of course take hold of our irish community we are f***ked completely,they have gay free zones and drink free zones/sharia only zones in some part of the uk,the facts are when the numbers are up they will make their demands on the rest of our island,they will ignore our laws and do their own thing,and they are the first to talk about respect.

twinytwo

Nodin wrote: »

Yep, and they changed that to this
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59465073&postcount=1




What has this to do with Asylum seekers?

And yes, once they pay tax here, they can claim here. Thats how it works.




Yes, the horror wreaked by hordes of Poles, Latvians and Lithuanians across the continent.....



Who came here by deception?



No, we don't.


I fail to see your point.


...they don't claim because they're illegal.



We have the highest refusal rate for asylum seekers in Europe.

source for last part??

Frank Grimes

twinytwo wrote: »

source for last part??

There are lots of articles, here are a couple:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/news/draconian-asylum-and-immigration-system-needs-reform-mr-shatter-182175.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/only-25-granted-asylum-last-year-lowest-rate-in-eu-2599995.html

The acceptance rates have always been low; you can see for yourself on www.orac.ie - they publish the stats on a regular basis.

alastair

christmas2012 wrote: »

Once we let religious foreign and some native nuts of course take hold of our irish community we are f***ked completely,they have gay free zones and drink free zones/sharia only zones in some part of the uk,the facts are when the numbers are up they will make their demands on the rest of our island,they will ignore our laws and do their own thing,and they are the first to talk about respect.

Can you identity the locations of said UK:

1. Gay-free zones
2. Drink-free zones
3. Sharia only zones

I'm dying to know.