Cohabiting Couples

hairyfoot

So my partner has just moved in (literally just a few weeks ago). Unfortunately he will now be unemployed with effect of next week.

So now I'm looking into what happens next and I just want to check I understand the determination of a 'couple' and 'cohabiting'. This is what I can figure out so far:

1. For the purpose of redress we are not recognised as cohabiting until we've lived together 5 years (2 if there is a child)
   • For the advantage of splitting tax credits we are not recognised as a couple at all meaning we get nothing unless we're married
2. Eligibility for Jobseekers Allowance a cohabitant's income is considered. Would it be wild of me to assume that the definition of cohabitant uses the same rule of 5 years?
3. For Rent Supplement, there is only reference to a 'couple'. I am assuming couple includes marriage, civil partnership and cohabiting; and if cohabiting is included, does the 5 year rule apply?
4. IF, we are not deemed a coulpe in relation to the rent supplement; I will be the landlord.
   a) According to this there is no requirement for a formal agreement or rent book. However to claim Rent Supplement these have to be presented - surely living with the landlord isn't exclusive to working people. What normally happens here?
   b) He has to prove he could afford rent before circumstances changed. Is it a problem that the first month paying rent is the first month he's unemployed?

To be very very clear - if the answers are what I think they might be, we'll just find a way to cope and hope he finds work quickly - I'm not not not looking for ways to get around it.

mrsbyrne

I have no idea where you got the idea about five years!:)he is your partner and you are living together sharing a home and a life and all the associated expenses so you are co-habiting. Thats pretty much it. Good luck for the future.
If he has been working for some time i presume he has sufficent PRSI to qualify for JSB. If so he will not be means tested and as such it will be immaterial as to what his living arrangements are.

hairyfoot

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I have no idea where you got the idea about five years!:)

The only definition of cohabiting couples I could find was here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/redress_scheme_for_cohabiting_couples.html
I know redress has nothing to do with social welfare, but surely one definition of cohabiting ought to apply across all areas?

mrsbyrne wrote: »

he is your partner and you are living together sharing a home and a life and all the associated expenses so you are co-habiting. Thats pretty much it.

I understand if you think I'm being selfish, but I'm basically worried. I had a lodger who moved out because he was going to cover the rent (and the common areas just aren't big enough for 3). Had my lodger lost his job, he could have got rent allowance, I'm in panic because I don't know how to cover the mortgage without a rental income.

I also think its a bit harsh to suppose we'd be fully financially interdependant in the first month of living together. I know everyone does things their own way; but this is a step as far as I'm concerned, and as months become years our finances would gradually merge - not literally day 1! I'm very very careful with my money, and the only time I have ever paid anything late was pure mistake.

mrsbyrne wrote: »

If he has been working for some time i presume he has sufficent PRSI to qualify for JSB. If so he will not be means tested and as such it will be immaterial as to what his living arrangements are.

He has picked up every little bit of work he can, when he can (he was even working 3 days a week in Donegal and 2 days a week in Dublin until April.....by the time rent and petrol was paid would have been better off on the dole but it was a combination of underestimating the strain of it, and pride of finally being off allowances). The frustrating part is, because he was long term unemployed before that, had he just made sure when the first job came in it was more than 30 hours he could have come under the back to work scheme tax reliefs. He chose to work even though he was financially worse off, and we're back to this (and by the way - I don't blame the system for that. He made a choice, but he also doing the right thing is its own reward)

I know I'm being dramatic, and there are people in far far worse situations. I was reading all the information last night and was overwhelmed and panicked. It was theraputic in itself to say my peace.

mp22

As mrsbyrne has said if you are living together you are co-habiting and that's it.As far as the dept is concerned your finances are as one from day one.

hairyfoot

mp22 wrote: »

As mrsbyrne has said if you are living together you are co-habiting and that's it.As far as the dept is concerned your finances are as one from day one.

If I was hit by a bus tomorrow, my estate wouldn't automatically transfer to him because we wouldn't be recognised as cohabitating, unless there was suitable evidence of an existing financial dependence.

Besides he's since spoken to someone in social welfare - he explained the situation as it is and was told it would be at the discretion of the person handling the case, but the time and how seperate our finances are will be a factor

wmpdd3

All above is true, but not in the eyes of the Social welfare!

From day one he is seen as a dependant of yours one ye are under the same roof, even thought you cant take his unused tax allowance! Thats just the way it is.

But if he is currently working he might have enough stamps for JSB, if he does you wont have to worry about a means tested JSA claim for nearly a year.

edellc

hairyfoot wrote: »

If I was hit by a bus tomorrow, my estate wouldn't automatically transfer to him because we wouldn't be recognised as cohabitating, unless there was suitable evidence of an existing financial dependence.

Besides he's since spoken to someone in social welfare - he explained the situation as it is and was told it would be at the discretion of the person handling the case, but the time and how seperate our finances are will be a factor

I have no idea where you are getting your info and what the person in SWO said to you is wrong so either they got it wrong or you miss heard

As has been said from day one living together you are classed as a couple cohabiting shared finances end off, even if you dont share finances and split every thing down the middle the SWO dont care it is a combined income

Yes if you die your OH doesnt get your stuff unless your married or left it to them in a will but again not the SWO concerns, while alive you are living as a couple and sharing everything as a couple

Tax credits are nothing to do with the SWO thats the tax office and no you cant claim the OH's credits, if you where married you could but thats because marriage is suppose to be long term commitment ie for life where as bf/gf sharing a bed, is not seen as that people break up move on all the time, not saying it doesnt happen to married peeps we all know it does but as per the definition in the constitution marriage is for life, bed sharing is until you get bored break up and find a new bed partner, would you like it it your gf claimed your credits and then you broke up and she still claimed your credits and you got none so get taxed through the nose until its sorted out, its way way to messy for the tax office and they are right in not allowing it, so deal with it, if you dont like it then get him to put a ring on it and claim the credits

Hopefully he gets a job soon, but if he has enough prsi contributions then you dont need to worry as he will be entitled to the full jsb without means testing its only an issue when that runs out and if he still has no work only then will your means be taken into account for his jsa, best of luck with it all OP, this is one way to test if you love him or not

ShaShaBear

Afraid I have to clarify as above, nomatter what legal jargon you throw, if he is in your bed more than half of the week (ie more than three nights) the Social Welfare and Community Welfare Officer have the right to label it as cohabitation. It doesn't matter who earns what or what goes where, you both have a household income from the moment you begin living together. A Welfare Officer does have the discretion to decide for certain, but in the Social Welfare office, you're either living together, or not.

war_child

Can clarify further for OP , myself and my partner live together we were literally cohabiting for a week when we announced it to the welfare officer , unfortunatly by doing this because our money exceeded the limit my partner did lose her rental supplement.

Whilst i dont want to offer you ways to cheat the system i would be very aware of the information given to SW, Local officer as i have personally found out being 100% honest with them can be harmful to your level of living. Hope it all works out for ya