5000 Jobs

liammur

ninty9er wrote: »

Let's figure out what the problem is first, then ask them to fix it.

(I've found the email address of who I think is the right guy at IDA and sent the same email)

Well I hope they have the decency to reply to you, and I agree, it would be very interesting to find out what the problem is, if indeed one exists at all.

Amazotheamazing

liammur wrote: »

He certainly was no good, but no one man will do the business by himself. It takes a joint effort, local people, businesses, media etc. The very fact that people here are discussing it is impressive. If only the people at large did so as well, the pressure would eventually tell.

I disagree tbh, having someone as weak as O'Dea was a significant step down from having someone like O'Malley. O'Dea might be plenty smart but he's been a near total disaster for the region. FF is effectively a feudal organisation, it runs on big man politics and a small timer like O'Dea basically brought nothing back from the top table.

We'll have to see can Noonan, O'Donnell and O'Sullivan do any better but already I'd be fairly sure they can't be worse.

liammur

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

We'll have to see can Noonan, O'Donnell and O'Sullivan do any better but already I'd be fairly sure they can't be worse.

Well so far they have done nothing, and they are in power now a while.

ninty9er

IDA response indicates that each project has its own requirements, but the neglect of the city centre is the most common negative mentioned.

liammur

ninty9er wrote: »

IDA response indicates that each project has its own requirements, but the neglect of the city centre is the most common negative mentioned.

I thought they'd blame it all on the Crescent. LOL.

zulutango

liammur wrote: »

Well so far they have done nothing, and they are in power now a while.

I wouldn't be the greatest supporter of this government, BUT credit where it's due ...

Shannon Airport has been given autonomy
City and county council have been amalgamated
Opera Centre acquired by the State
Limerick given the first Irish City of Culture title

The first two are quite significant in terms of enabling the region to develop and prosper, and ultimately generate employment. The latter two are pretty positive developments that are likely to lead to jobs.

These things take time, so a year is nowhere near enough to judge them. As I said, I wouldn't be a supporter, but they shouldn't be judged until after a full term in office, in my opinion.

And even then, I'd find it hard to see them being worse than the governments of the last 15 years, which were disastrous for Limerick and the entire Midwest region. I don't think there can be any disputing that.

liammur

zulutango wrote: »

I wouldn't be the greatest supporter of this government, BUT credit where it's due ...

Shannon Airport has been given autonomy
City and county council have been amalgamated
Opera Centre acquired by the State
Limerick given the first Irish City of Culture title

The first two are quite significant in terms of enabling the region to develop and prosper, and ultimately generate employment. The latter two are pretty positive developments that are likely to lead to jobs.

These things take time, so a year is nowhere near enough to judge them. As I said, I wouldn't be a supporter, but they shouldn't be judged until after a full term in office, in my opinion.

And even then, I'd find it hard to see them being worse than the governments of the last 15 years, which were disastrous for Limerick and the entire Midwest region. I don't think there can be any disputing that.

Fitstly, I don't want to be blaming anyone, but I agree the last government neglected the region in a shocking way.

But, Galway has got at least 1,000 jobs so far this year. It shouldn't take anymore than a week to realise that the region is crying out for these type of jobs. That's what will create the spend in the city centre. New people will require new house, new furniture etc. That's why we're in a depression and the other cities aren't.

As for Shannon airport, I fear for it's very future now.
Amalgamating the city and council is nothing more than a cost cutting exercise.

zulutango

liammur wrote: »

As for Shannon airport, I fear for it's very future now.
Amalgamating the city and council is nothing more than a cost cutting exercise.

I'd disagree emphatically on that last point. It remains to be seen what the fine detail of the amalgamation is, but this could be the most significant thing to happen to Limerick in 50 years. Practically all of Limerick's (and the Midwest's) problems, including its high unemployment, stem from the dysfunctional local governance structure. We've three local authorities and a number of State agencies all pulling against each other. That's why things aren't so good here. Fix this and you solve a lot of the problems.

ninty9er

zulutango wrote: »

I wouldn't be the greatest supporter of this government, BUT credit where it's due ...

Shannon Airport has been given autonomy
City and county council have been amalgamated
Opera Centre acquired by the State
Limerick given the first Irish City of Culture title

It remains to be seen how Shannon will develop. It's autonomy may mean the end of all passenger services if the debt isn't wiped or if it's not leased to a private operator. I think Varadkar has the right idea, and is one of the few performers in cabinet, but I'm not certain the rest will back him.

Amalgamation was well underway before last year's election. I'd have more respect for the government if its progress on that involved abolishing both councils and constituting a new one with half the staff. It won't save much, it may even increase costs.

The Opera Centre was acquired by the City, not the State, not that I view paying for the site as a positive, when I've seen much more valuable examples elsewhere change hands for nominal money ($1) once they were costing their owners more to have. There is no plan for it and it's one of the biggest distractions taking everyone's attention away from more pressing and per existing dereliction.

The last one - I'm just hoping someone decent is appointed to run it.


The basics are that no company, no matter how much selling of a city is done, will set up in a city where the CEOs significant other and kids have little or nothing to do in the city centre. Forget grand plans, we haven't even got the basics, and it's people like the Local Heroes will more effectively address that than any city councillor or government minister or state agency.

We have great things in the city, but the neglect overshadows them all

zulutango

ninty9er wrote: »

It remains to be seen how Shannon will develop. It's autonomy may mean the end of all passenger services if the debt isn't wiped or if it's not leased to a private operator. I think Varadkar has the right idea, and is one of the few performers in cabinet, but I'm not certain the rest will back him.

It's what all the business leaders in the region looked for, and the previous governments failed to deliver. At least this government has listened. I must repeat that I am not a supporter, but they've already done a whole lot more for the region than the previous three governments of FF/PD especially.

ninty9er wrote: »

Amalgamation was well underway before last year's election. I'd have more respect for the government if its progress on that involved abolishing both councils and constituting a new one with half the staff. It won't save much, it may even increase costs.

True. It was on the cards. The Green Party made it a priority and Fianna Fáil, including Willie O'Dea, did everything they could to thwart it. County Clare should have been included in the amalgamation and a proper regional government brought in, but this is a decent first step.

ninty9er wrote: »

The Opera Centre was acquired by the City, not the State ...

That's not true. It was acquired by the Department of the Environment, ergo The State. But even if it had been acquired by the city council, that is still the State as the Council is controlled by DOE and government.

ninty9er wrote: »

, not that I view paying for the site as a positive, when I've seen much more valuable examples elsewhere change hands for nominal money ($1) once they were costing their owners more to have. There is no plan for it and it's one of the biggest distractions taking everyone's attention away from more pressing and per existing dereliction.

€12 million for an entire city centre block is not bad value no matter what way you cut it. It's far better for us that that the State has acquired it than a private interest, who would most likely sit on it until its value increased. If it was let go for nominal value this would have been far more likely. What are the more valuable examples that you mentioned that changed hands for €1?

ninty9er wrote: »

Forget grand plans, we haven't even got the basics, and it's people like the Local Heroes will more effectively address that than any city councillor or government minister or state agency.

Local Heroes is fantastic, but if you think it can bring about even a fraction of the positve change that the State can, you're either stone mad or you simply have no understanding of what change the State can effect.

zulutango

By the way, Ninty9er, if you're going to quote me, please don't do it selectively. The last two paragraphs give context to the points about what this government has done for the region over and above the most recent governments. Here's the full quote.

zulutango wrote: »

I wouldn't be the greatest supporter of this government, BUT credit where it's due ...

Shannon Airport has been given autonomy
City and county council have been amalgamated
Opera Centre acquired by the State
Limerick given the first Irish City of Culture title

The first two are quite significant in terms of enabling the region to develop and prosper, and ultimately generate employment. The latter two are pretty positive developments that are likely to lead to jobs.

These things take time, so a year is nowhere near enough to judge them. As I said, I wouldn't be a supporter, but they shouldn't be judged until after a full term in office, in my opinion.

And even then, I'd find it hard to see them being worse than the governments of the last 15 years, which were disastrous for Limerick and the entire Midwest region. I don't think there can be any disputing that.

liammur

Potentially breaking Shannon away from the DAA was good, but if Shannon Development are given control of it, I fear the worst.

Can anyone tell me what they actually do ? It's a quango I'd like to see scrapped.

europa11

liammur wrote: »

Potentially breaking Shannon away from the DAA was good, but if Shannon Development are given control of it, I fear the worst.

Can anyone tell me what they actually do ? It's a quango I'd like to see scrapped.

From my experience, attend endless "meetings", at least that was the stock response I and many more used get on phone from reception out there when I was once a tenant of theirs before moving from a poorly-run SD small industrial facility in town.

Once recall a guy who was employed there complain bitterly at how "sick to death" he was of having to attend the Bunratty Castle Medieval Banquets with potential investors. They sure have it tough some of them.:rolleyes:

Dread to think of having them in charge at Shannon Airport. Can't see them doing anything positive or certainly imaginative, far better it was sold as a private entity imo.

Sorry for going off on a rant.....enjoying the debate here!

zulutango

I don't know about Shannon Development. They were very good in the past in terms of attracting investment to the region and developing the tourist potential, but it seems that they hit a brick wall a number of years ago. I'd also be concerned whether they are the right people to control Shannon Airport, but I really don't know enough to say which or whether. It certainly is good that the airport has been wrested free of the dead hand of the DAA though.

ninty9er

The response from SD is that someone will meet me this week to discuss fully.

BTW, the below is the body of my email to both

I've just had a conversation with some others about what the reasons are that the Mid-West region has not seen as much FDI in recent years as Cork or Galway.

Are there any particular reasons given by companies who choose other regions having seen Limerick and Clare? I ask as I wonder if there is anything civic society can do to remedy this trend

Johnny_BravoIII

There's a serious amount of research & stats undertaken in this area. It's no mystery what attracts FDI.
There's a core competence in the general mid-west region for attracting FDI (particularly from the US) going back 40 years.


It's seems that findings of various reports agree the revitalisation of the city centre as a key driver to future regional development & inward investment.

"The Taskforce believes a strong city is necessary pre-requisite for a strong region.....................The Overall Limerick/Shannon Gateway Development Index (GDI) score is slightly below the national average.................driven by poor performance of Zone 1.............., especially population, affluence and social - the latter reflecting both high crime and low community participation indicators. Zone 1 is falling further below the national average. The Gateway as a whole cannot progress greatly in GDI terms until the performance of the urban core starts to improve.
............
There are 3 key issues which if addressed in the short to medium term with a degree of urgency will begin to make a significant difference to the development of Limerick City & its environs;
1. Goverence
2. Regeneration
3. Development of Limerick City Centre"
"

http://www.djei.ie/publications/general/2009/MidWestTaskForceInterimReportJuly2009.pdf

page 37.

More Recent:
"The Revitalisation of Limerick City Centre as a key component in the economic competitiveness of the region and the heart of a strong and vibrant city"

http://www.mwasp.ie/documents/consultation/MWASP_DRAFTReport_09012012.pdf

liammur

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

There's a serious amount of research & stats undertaken in this area. It's no mystery what attracts FDI.
There's a core competence in the general mid-west region for attracting FDI (particularly from the US) going back 40 years.


It's seems that findings of various reports agree the revitalisation of the city centre as a key driver to future regional development & inward investment.

"The Taskforce believes a strong city is necessary pre-requisite for a strong region.....................The Overall Limerick/Shannon Gateway Development Index (GDI) score is slightly below the national average.................driven by poor performance of Zone 1.............., especially population, affluence and social - the latter reflecting both high crime and low community participation indicators. Zone 1 is falling further below the national average. The Gateway as a whole cannot progress greatly in GDI terms until the performance of the urban core starts to improve.
............
There are 3 key issues which if addressed in the short to medium term with a degree of urgency will begin to make a significant difference to the development of Limerick City & its environs;
1. Goverence
2. Regeneration
3. Development of Limerick City Centre"
"

http://www.djei.ie/publications/general/2009/MidWestTaskForceInterimReportJuly2009.pdf

page 37.

More Recent:
"The Revitalisation of Limerick City Centre as a key component in the economic competitiveness of the region and the heart of a strong and vibrant city"

http://www.mwasp.ie/documents/consultation/MWASP_DRAFTReport_09012012.pdf

I believe the city centre has fallen apart for the very reason that we have got no MNC's in about 15 years.
Look at Dublin, they gave them tax breaks for the IFSC, and suddenly the city centre region is thriving.

It's the IDA jobs that revitalises a city.

ninty9er

Having had quite a candid conversation the figures do not bear out a neglect of Limerick.

FDI from IDA plugging in Limerick in 2011

• Analog - 100 jobs (which they're struggling to fill)
• Teleflex - 80 jobs
• On Semiconductor - 69 jobs
• Northern Trust - a total of 370 (up from 70 in 2007) including transfer of operations out of Dublin.
• Gilt Groupe - 100 jobs

They're the high profile ones, so for a part of the region with less than 5% of the population, we've got 10% of IDA jobs.

There is an issue with suitable sites of 100 sq. acres + in Limerick, but that's not going to be addressed overnight.

liammur

ninty9er wrote: »

Having had quite a candid conversation the figures do not bear out a neglect of Limerick.

FDI from IDA plugging in Limerick in 2011

• Analog - 100 jobs (which they're struggling to fill)
• Teleflex - 80 jobs
• On Semiconductor - 69 jobs
• Northern Trust - a total of 370 (up from 70 in 2007) including transfer of operations out of Dublin.
• Gilt Groupe - 100 jobs

They're the high profile ones, so for a part of the region with less than 5% of the population, we've got 10% of IDA jobs.

There is an issue with suitable sites of 100 sq. acres + in Limerick, but that's not going to be addressed overnight.

You are probably the only one in the country who thinks that. Have a look at the number of jobs LK/Cork/Galway and Dub have got over the last 15 years. I would say we managed about 1%.

ninty9er

liammur wrote: »

You are probably the only one in the country who thinks that. Have a look at the number of jobs LK/Cork/Galway and Dub have got over the last 15 years. I would say we managed about 1%.

Remember we got Dell in that period, one of the largest single employers outside of the public sector, a company that still employs more than 1,000 people in Limerick. Some people are never going to be happy and will always want more at someone else's expense; I guess you're one of them.

With attitudes like that you become what is called in technical terms a detractor, someone who gets left behind by the influencers and leaders. Some people just won't help themselves.

liammur

ninty9er wrote: »

Remember we got Dell in that period, one of the largest single employers outside of the public sector, a company that still employs more than 1,000 people in Limerick. Some people are never going to be happy and will always want more at someone else's expense; I guess you're one of them.

With attitudes like that you become what is called in technical terms a detractor, someone who gets left behind by the influencers and leaders. Some people just won't help themselves.

To be honest, you are totally out of your depth and those you have contacted must be gulping in laughter. I'm completely wasting my time discussing matters with you. Anyone who thinks Dell moved in here after 1997 is simply out of touch with reality. They moved into Limerick in 1990, and were the main driver of growth in the raheen region.

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/emea/dell_in_ireland/locations/limerick?c=ie&l=en

Insect Overlord

If the pair of ye don't stop taking sad little pot-shots at each other I'll ban both of you. Final warning.