Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Garda assaulted in Limerick
-
13-07-2012 10:28am#1I see that a rugby "starlet" attacked an off duty garda on Cruises street and left him with some facial injuries. It would seem that the assaulted man had been identified as being a garda by the associates of the attacker.
When it went to court the judge order the rugby player to give the garda a written apology and fined the attacker €750.
Just seems a joke of a punishment for attacking and injuring a person. It was a scumbag act and the punishment seems to suggest that attacking someone in the street is only worth an apology and a fine.:(
But I guess as the attacker is a "rising star" and had a character reference from a rugby coach that said they had high hopes for him as a player meant that assaulting a person should not see the attacker go behind bars.
In the eyes of the law all people are meant to be equal, but maybe some people are more equal than others.:rolleyes:
http://www.live95fm.ie/news/news-item/upcoming-rugby-star-assaulted-off-duty-garda-in-limerick-city/0bfbfc45-cf28-4004-b5d4-d9f575d936818
Comments
-
Only Shannon RFC gave him a reference.
Can't see Munster or IRFU touching anyone like that with a barge pole again, tbh I'd say this "rising star" won't go much further. If I'm proven wrong on that score then shame on them. Munster might be struggling to fill places in the coming years with good local players, but "talent" like this and the example he sets are hardly what they, or we, would want to represent us on and off the field.
A cowardly unwarranted attack that should have carried a custodial sentence. Too much of that shlte going on of late and no exceptions should ever be made.
I can't think of many other examples where a rap on the knuckles sentence would have been handed down for premeditated assault. Justice system fail here.0 -
I see that a rugby "starlet" attacked an off duty garda on Cruises street and left him with some facial injuries. It would seem that the assaulted man had been identified as being a garda by the associates of the attacker.
When it went to court the judge order the rugby player to give the garda a written apology and fined the attacker €750.
Just seems a joke of a punishment for attacking and injuring a person. It was a scumbag act and the punishment seems to suggest that attacking someone in the street is only worth an apology and a fine.:(
But I guess as the attacker is a "rising star" and had a character reference from a rugby coach that said they had high hopes for him as a player meant that assaulting a person should not see the attacker go behind bars.
In the eyes of the law all people are meant to be equal, but maybe some people are more equal than others.:rolleyes:
http://www.live95fm.ie/news/news-item/upcoming-rugby-star-assaulted-off-duty-garda-in-limerick-city/0bfbfc45-cf28-4004-b5d4-d9f575d93681
Tbf, there's a lot of times that a guy landing a few digs doesn't end up in Court at all. First time offence, I genuinely don't think much would be served by locking him up, on the otherhand, he should be sent out to Shannon's pitches in Coonagh and forced to do a few hundred hours community service. (or wherever).0 -
Amazotheamazing wrote: »Tbf, there's a lot of times that a guy landing a few digs doesn't end up in Court at all. First time offence, I genuinely don't think much would be served by locking him up, on the otherhand, he should be sent out to Shannon's pitches in Coonagh and forced to do a few hundred hours community service. (or wherever).
I think the fact that it was known to the attacker and his pals that the victim was a garda should come into play. If the guy's attitude is one where he thinks he can go and attack a garda, then I wonder how easy would it be for him to do the same to joe public if he took a dislike to someone.
And to be honest if a person is happy to assault another person as they walk down a street, then I really would not care if this was the first time that the attacker was caught breaking the law or the tenth time. Assaulting another person should get your arse put in a cell. Writing a letter to the victim and paying a fine is no big punishment for a thuggish attack imho, and pretty much leads to the thinking that an assault or two is no big thing to do as long as you write a letter saying you are sorry and have people to say you are a great guy.
It was not the victim's fault that the rugby player was either too stupid or too much of a thug to be unable to go past the garda in the street without having to use his fists, and if a person is the type that has to resort to attacking others in public, then they are either stupid or thuggish, maybe both, in my eyes.
It could be argued that he was not the first guy to hand out a few digs to another person in the street, and that he should not be punished too harshly for it. But the flip side of that is why should any person have to put up with someone punching them in the street or anywhere else and not see the person get punished properly for it? I would argue that the shock of a physical assault stays longer with the victim than the effect of a mickey mouse punishment stays with the attacker and that is simply wrong.0 -
Playing rugby seems to give fellas a carte blanche to do what they want0
-
Only Shannon RFC gave him a reference.
Aw - You've really got to feel sorry for Shannon RFC - First of all they were unlucky enough to have Limericks Mayor McLoughlin drag their name around the mud and now this <edit>person</edit> is just adding to the impression that they are a club with ankle height standards, now I bet people will draw the conclusion that impressionable young people in their care are influenced by their píss poor values and embarrassing carry on.
The next time a Shannon RFC club official considers writing a reference for some <edit>person</edit> who has been out assaulting innocent people on our streets they might consider having some moral sense and instead expel them from their organisation in order to protect the clubs reputation instead of happily signing up to the notion that Shannon RFC thinks this behaviour is fine - Which I can only presume it doesn't (?)
The Judge needs to attend remedial 'Judge' lectures starting with a junior infants grasp on notions of what is right and conversely what is wrong - The fact that he was swayed by the dubious references coming from dubious Shannon RFC is laughable.
- Finally this <edit>person</edit> is not a rugby star nor will he ever be - rugby stars have self discipline, courage and strength of character - this <edit>person</edit> is just another <edit>person</edit> out punching people on our streets.0 -
Advertisement
-
A cowardly unwarranted attack that should have carried a custodial sentence.
Two digs in the head gets you a custodial sentence now? How long would you suggest?struck twice in the face by Craig McCallum suffering a cut lip and a loose tooth.I can't think of many other examples where a rap on the knuckles sentence would have been handed down for premeditated assault. Justice system fail here.
Can you provide any examples where more than a rap on the knuckles is handed down for a street brawl?
In not way condoning the little wanker's actions but there has to be some perspective.The Judge needs to attend remedial 'Judge' lectures starting with a junior infants grasp on notions of what is right and conversely what is wrong - The fact that he was swayed by the dubious references coming from dubious Shannon RFC is laughable.
This "fact" of yours, where exactly did you get that from?0 -
I think the fact that it was known to the attacker and his pals that the victim was a garda should come into play. If the guy's attitude is one where he thinks he can go and attack a garda, then I wonder how easy would it be for him to do the same to joe public if he took a dislike to someone.
And to be honest if a person is happy to assault another person as they walk down a street, then I really would not care if this was the first time that the attacker was caught breaking the law or the tenth time. Assaulting another person should get your arse put in a cell. Writing a letter to the victim and paying a fine is no big punishment for a thuggish attack imho, and pretty much leads to the thinking that an assault or two is no big thing to do as long as you write a letter saying you are sorry and have people to say you are a great guy.
It was not the victim's fault that the rugby player was either too stupid or too much of a thug to be unable to go past the garda in the street without having to use his fists, and if a person is the type that has to resort to attacking others in public, then they are either stupid or thuggish, maybe both, in my eyes.
Maybe, but plenty of people get sent home after sleeping it off in a cell, the fact that he hit a Garda is probably the only reason any charges were pressed at all. A friend of mine was attacked in Dublin, teeth broken etc, attacker got off with a suspended sentence (though he did have to pay medical bills).
Even the penalty is questionable, imo. Why do we imprison people? Is it as pure punishment or to rehabilitate them, and if it's only to punish them, for relatively minor assaults, would it not be better to get a better use of their time then keeping them locked up? I am by no means justifying assault, but I think we need to rethink what we do with offenders as the current system doesn't work all that well.
And if it's to rehabilitate, I doubt anyone really thinks an Irish prison can rehabilitate anyone. Having seen the inside of Mountjoy, there is virtually no chance of coming out of there better than when you went in.
He certainly should pay for what he did, but how he should pay is the question, imo. The former Leinster player Shane Horgan assaulted a bouncer in Galway at the start of his career, pleaded guilty in Court, changed his lifestyle and went on to tour with the Lions. He was able to make the most of his talent and a decade down the line I think most people would agree he's a good role-model for getting his life back on track after an incident that could have ruined his professional career (incidentally he has just finished a masters in law in Trinity). Would we really have benefitted from locking him up?0 -
Only Shannon RFC gave him a reference.
Aw - You've really got to feel sorry for Shannon RFC - First of all they were unlucky enough to have Limericks Mayor McLoughlin drag their name around the mud and now this <edit>person</edit> is just adding to the impression that they are a club with ankle height standards, now I bet people will draw the conclusion that impressionable young people in their care are influenced by their píss poor values and embarrassing carry on.
The next time a Shannon RFC club official considers writing a reference for some <edit>person</edit> who has been out assaulting innocent people on our streets they might consider having some moral sense and instead expel them from their organisation in order to protect the clubs reputation instead of happily signing up to the notion that Shannon RFC thinks this behaviour is fine - Which I can only presume it doesn't (?)
The Judge needs to attend remedial 'Judge' lectures starting with a junior infants grasp on notions of what is right and conversely what is wrong - The fact that he was swayed by the dubious references coming from dubious Shannon RFC is laughable.
- Finally this <edit>person</edit> is not a rugby star nor will he ever be - rugby stars have self discipline, courage and strength of character - this <edit>person</edit> is just another <edit>person</edit> out punching people on our streets.
Another Shannon club "legend" gave a character reference in another infamous court case where an ex rugby player escaped jail0 -
Is it as clear cut as it's being made out to be?
The case during the week where local Gardaí had tried to get an innocent lad convicted for assault makes it difficult to have much faith in them. They were only found out because there was video evidence that showed their side of the story was a pack of lies.0 -
By the by, and I'm no great supporter of Shannon, it's only right that a club stands by a young lad in trouble, imo. At his age he could go eitherway, any support structure around him should be welcomed, imo, whether it's family, friends or team-mates. He was voted player's player of the year last year, so clearly his team-mates, who know him well, think a bit of him.
Like I said re Shane Horgan, people can turn their lives around and should be supported in doing so. Obviously if he goes on to continue that behaviour it's a different matter.0 -
Advertisement
-
Only Shannon RFC gave him a reference.
Can't see Munster or IRFU touching anyone like that with a barge pole again, tbh I'd say this "rising star" won't go much further. If I'm proven wrong on that score then shame on them. Munster might be struggling to fill places in the coming years with good local players, but "talent" like this and the example he sets are hardly what they, or we, would want to represent us on and off the field.
A cowardly unwarranted attack that should have carried a custodial sentence. Too much of that shlte going on of late and no exceptions should ever be made.
I can't think of many other examples where a rap on the knuckles sentence would have been handed down for premeditated assault. Justice system fail here.
Every one deserves a second chance Europa. We've all done stupid crap in our youth that we may regret or even be ashamed of, but to make an example out of a kid who made a stupid mistake is wrong. As Amazo said, he is at a tender age and could go down one of two paths and hopefully he takes the right one.
I'm not condoning his actions on the night, far from it, but I'd be willing to bet that it was out of character.0 -
In fairness, you'd need a log scale to represent that kinda stupid mistake versus "normal" drunk stupid mistake. Just another example of respect for the Gardai being undermined unfortunately.0
-
Is it as clear cut as it's being made out to be?
The case during the week where local Gardaí had tried to get an innocent lad convicted for assault makes it difficult to have much faith in them. They were only found out because there was video evidence that showed their side of the story was a pack of lies.
The difference is that in this case all parties pretty much agree on what happened.0 -
In fairness, you'd need a log scale to represent that kinda stupid mistake versus "normal" drunk stupid mistake. Just another example of respect for the Gardai being undermined unfortunately.
I agree it's a serious thing, but the issue what's the best punishment for it, imo.
He's obviously a guy with an interest in rugby, what if the Court told him to go off, do a coaching course and coach a team in the Community games next year, for example, or coach in one of the schools etc? You could easily get people to oversee his participation to make sure he wasn't taking the piss. I don't see what's to be gained from a custodial sentence.0 -
that rugby starlet should get some jail time aswell..0
-
Not condoning what he did in any way, but what difference does it make that it was an off-duty garda? Would this be the same if it was any other member of the public? Who is to say that the garda didn't initiate this? (Although I am aware that some rugby players playing at higher levels in the AIL etc. can be **** when drinking.)0
-
He was targeted BECAUSE he was a Garda. That can't be tolerated without undermining the Gardai completely.Not condoning what he did in any way, but what difference does it make that it was an off-duty garda? Would this be the same if it was any other member of the public? Who is to say that the garda didn't initiate this? (Although I am aware that some rugby players playing at higher levels in the AIL etc. can be **** when drinking.)
Amazo - yes, custodial was not going to be of any benefit here, but community service would have been a good solution IMO.0 -
Amazotheamazing wrote: »Maybe, but plenty of people get sent home after sleeping it off in a cell, the fact that he hit a Garda is probably the only reason any charges were pressed at all. A friend of mine was attacked in Dublin, teeth broken etc, attacker got off with a suspended sentence (though he did have to pay medical bills).
Even the penalty is questionable, imo. Why do we imprison people? Is it as pure punishment or to rehabilitate them, and if it's only to punish them, for relatively minor assaults, would it not be better to get a better use of their time then keeping them locked up? I am by no means justifying assault, but I think we need to rethink what we do with offenders as the current system doesn't work all that well.
And if it's to rehabilitate, I doubt anyone really thinks an Irish prison can rehabilitate anyone. Having seen the inside of Mountjoy, there is virtually no chance of coming out of there better than when you went in.
He certainly should pay for what he did, but how he should pay is the question, imo. The former Leinster player Shane Horgan assaulted a bouncer in Galway at the start of his career, pleaded guilty in Court, changed his lifestyle and went on to tour with the Lions. He was able to make the most of his talent and a decade down the line I think most people would agree he's a good role-model for getting his life back on track after an incident that could have ruined his professional career (incidentally he has just finished a masters in law in Trinity). Would we really have benefitted from locking him up?
I do see your arguement and I do agree with a lot of it. But I don't think that having to give a written apology and a fine is really a fitting punishment for going after an off duty garda and knowing beforehand that the man was a garda. I wonder if he did not have his two buddies as back up would he have been so willing to attack?
A week in prison or a nice spell of community service doing physical work would seem more appropriate to me.
The idea of letting anyone away with such a minor punishment after physically abusing another person just does not sit right with me at all. I have been involved in boxing for 25 years and 21 years ago I got involved with Ishin Ryu Ju-Jitsu and at present am a 2nd Dan black belt.
By the time I was that rugby player's age I was competing for a place on what is now called Team GB ( for boxing). You know how many people I had attacked on the street at that point? none. 19 years later I still practise, and in very good shape, and am not a small chap. You know how many people I attacked between the age of 19 and now? Yep it is still none. I have defended myself on a couple of occassions, but I never felt the need to go out and impose myself physically on another person outside of a controlled sporting enviroment, and I have nothing but disgust for anyone with the training that makes them stronger than another person or a more skilled fighter that goes and uses it where they should not.
Being bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled etc does not mean you can attack people, what it means is that you should have more control and be satisfied that the fact you are bigger, stronger etc means that your physical or trained advantage is a reason to avoid conflict.
Maybe I just have different standards, both now and when I was 19, to that rugby player and attacking someone in the street would be something that I would regard as embarrassing or shameful for me to do without genuine provation (which would have to be something like someone being is genuine peril).
I think as well I tend to try and see attacks from the victims pov and I try to imagine how helpless a victim of an assault must feel. It is not something that most people could shake off after a day or two, and a person attacked in the street might be feeling the mental impact for weeks, months or even years later. What might be seen as only a few thumps and a bit of a beating by some, might well be something that makes the victim feel scared to go outside or to walk on streets alone etc. If an attack brings the potential of making it's victim change their habits/routines through fear, then the punishment has to have some substantial impact upon the aggressor as well in my eyes.
A week in prison could be an eye opener for someone that commits an assault. 168 hours of hard work doing community service in public would be a good alternative to a week in prison. It just needs to be something that impacts on the aggressor's life and acts as a genuine punishment/inconvenience for the term that it lasts for. Writing a letter to say sorry just does not match the crime imho.0 -
Amazotheamazing wrote: »I agree it's a serious thing, but the issue what's the best punishment for it, imo.
He's obviously a guy with an interest in rugby, what if the Court told him to go off, do a coaching course and coach a team in the Community games next year, for example, or coach in one of the schools etc? You could easily get people to oversee his participation to make sure he wasn't taking the piss. I don't see what's to be gained from a custodial sentence.
Actually something like that would be a very good idea.0 -
He was targeted BECAUSE he was a Garda. That can't be tolerated without undermining the Gardai completely.
Amazo - yes, custodial was not going to be of any benefit here, but community service would have been a good solution IMO.
Ah fair enough. Read that arseways! Ya he's a retard so.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
Brendan Creamy Sinusitis wrote: »Two digs in the head gets you a custodial sentence now? How long would you suggest?
OK, giving him some benefit of the doubt, the least he should have been given was some kind of Community Service on top of a fine as suggested.
Making light of assaulting a complete stranger for no other reasons than he had 'back up' and deciding to be the hard guy taking on "the man"/"the Guard" though, that I don't get.
I know you're not condoning his actions but suggesting just a few thumps is virtually harmless action is ridiculous tbh . If you get a few pucks in the head tonight from a fit rugby player type would you come back and laugh it off? I hope it doesn't happen and I doubt if it did you'd consider it irrelevant either.
A neighbour of mine was seriously brain damaged in Cruises Street by some other joker deciding to set upon a passer-by without cause (again, by co-incidence perhaps, his assailant used his rugby playing as part of his defence when in Court). btw, fortunately and after a few years, my neighbour is almost fully recovered. However, there are two instances i can think of within the past few years in this city where people who received "surprise" digs to head died as a reult of falling heavily from the blows.
It's not a matter to be taken so lightly. "Two digs in the head" mightn't be much to you, but ask someone in A&E some time for their opinion.0 -
I know you're not condoning his actions but suggesting just a few thumps is virtually harmless action is ridiculous tbh . If you get a few pucks in the head tonight from a fit rugby player type would you come back and laugh it off? I hope it doesn't happen and I doubt if it did you'd consider it irrelevant either.
I'm not suggesting just a few thumps is virtually harmless I'm saying the few thumps he got was virtually harmless. Split lip and a shaky tooth?
Again not condoning his actions but the punishment has to fit the crime.0 -
Character building, I'm sure. Perhaps Limerick city could use it to draw tourists?Brendan Creamy Sinusitis wrote: »I'm saying the few thumps he got was virtually harmless. Split lip and a shaky tooth?
Could be worth countless thousands to the city.
"Limerick citaay - don't go out if ya can't handle a split lip and a loose tooth. It's our culture"0 -
Brendan Creamy Sinusitis wrote: »I'm not suggesting just a few thumps is virtually harmless I'm saying the few thumps he got was virtually harmless. Split lip and a shaky tooth?
Again not condoning his actions but the punishment has to fit the crime.
Brendan Creamy Sinusitis I couldn't believe daylight from you after that statement - There's an agenda here I reckon - Was he pageboy at your wedding or something :rolleyes:
- Personally if I was sitting at home with a cut lip and a loose tooth cause this lady couldn't hold a few pints it would be no comfort that he had sent me some dictated letter via his solicitor.
Also its great that the Gardaí managed to collar someone for this - People are being hammered on our streets on a nightly basis going back as far as I can remember - very odd to see an arrest made though - really, fair play to them......0 -
Raiser - I would say arrests are frequently made (not always but frequently), they just don't always make the news because there is just normal joe soaps involved IMO0
-
PMan I couldn't believe daylight from you after that statement - There's an agenda here I reckon - Was he pageboy at your wedding or something :rolleyes:
None I'm afraid, I went to a rugby school in Limerick, can't say it endeared me to the rugby set.
There is an agenda from some people on this thread however - because this guy is an (allegedly) potentially successful rugger bugger people think he needs to be taken down a peg or two.- Personally if I was sitting at home with a cut lip and a loose tooth cause this lady couldn't hold a few pints it would be no comfort that he had sent me some dictated letter via his solicitor.
On that much we agree. The sentence should have been more severe but people calling for a custodial sentence for a few digs in the head - crazy. If the attack was really violent maybe.0 -
Someone like that should be made example of. What gave him the right to start or hit anybody else of course unless self defence . This should more so be more of a harsher punishment because a Garda was the person who was attacked. I'll put it to you all this way try that in another country example U.S and you would be up for all sorts. Sure the robbers are even better equiped then our police force there needs to be serious changes in the Law system especially the court system which is so badly run and easy money for solicitors and big headed barristers who think they are the cheese walking around0
-
Wow what a joke sentence.
Out of curiosity is this the same Garda that got caught lying in front of a judge?Garda Paul Bentley said he and Garda O’Connor had responded to a call from security staff that four males were creating a disturbance having been refused entry. He had instructed Gary Daly to leave the area “at least four times” but, under cross-examination by solicitor Jerry Twomey, conceded the men had been told to leave the area collectively rather than individually. Mr Daly had been abusive and drunk on the night, was unsteady on his feet and slurring his speech, Garda Bentley said.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/judge-appalled-by-video-footage-after-man-says-garda-broke-his-arm-1-40360160 -
Advertisement
-
Wow what a joke sentence.
Out of curiosity is this the same Garda that got caught lying in front of a judge?
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/judge-appalled-by-video-footage-after-man-says-garda-broke-his-arm-1-4036016
Indeed, wonder what sanction the Gardai will take against a Garda who lies in Court?
Considering it's far, far more serious that two punches to the head, I expect there will be an angry boards.ie mob waiting to lynch Garda Bentley by midday tomorrow...0
Advertisement