Som where to now?

ART6

I started another thread in this forum a while ago about the HSE, but now I feel that I need to start a new thread as the original one is well addressed.

So. My wife has an incurable illness, and sadly her time on this earth is limited. I can do nothing about that, but it has started me thinking: I didn't have a medical card or feel that I needed one to help with her care. I paid for years for private health insurance and didn't call upon it. I paid my taxes and RSI in the firm belief that I should bear my part of the cost of running the country. Self-employed, I paid an auditor to submit my accounts to the revenue every year, and I believed myself to be whiter than white.

Then, when my wife's hospital doctors told me that I should apply for a medical card and should avail of any state services available, my first reaction was "But why? I can manage." Then I started to think about the outlandish salaries, expenses, and pensions from which our politicians benefit. Who else gets paid to go to work without the revenue demanding tax as a benefit in kind? Who else gets a substantial pension for a few short years of "work" without contributing a red cent towards it? Who else gets paid several times the national average income for sitting on a leather seat three days a week and shouting like a fourth form schoolboy (or girl -- I don't want to be accused of discrimination!).

Yes! I thought. Get every damned thing you can out of the state. But then conscience took over. If I take that approach, who pays? A family that is on its uppers with mortgage arrears? If I claim every red cent I can who else will pay that? The state doesn't have any money that it can't drain from the people or borrow from Europe and lumber the debt onto the people. Call it "Sovereign debt" and the problem is yours, Boyo! So every cent I claim that I haven't paid for, someone else does. I don't want to do that.

I am long past the point where I could become a political activist, however much I might want to, so I must pass the baton onto my children. However, I just hope that they might see though the pretence of these charlatans and create a new and equitable Ireland one day.

Welease

As before, folks are sorry for your situation and understand your pain and anger. However, with the upmost respect i think you are allowing your judgement to become clouded, or maybe I am just misreading your posts (either way my response is not intended to dismiss your situation).

If you are entitled to services, and those services are required... then claim them.. thats what they are there for...
Not claiming required services, but attacking politicians instead just seems illogical. Yes, there are wasters, but there are also decent politicians, and despite what we think they do respond to what people in this country want (it's just sometimes what we want is idiotic beyond belief)..
But they are seperate issues..

Edit - I feel i should add to this, becuase it felt uncomfortably direct..

Economies are evolving and expanding and contracting over time.. Your effect on the Irish Economy cannot be gauged by your postion in time now, it is guaged by your contribution over time (or should be). The taxes you paid over years have helped to educate people now working and contributing, keep people alive, jail nutters and pay pensions.. you contributed for years (as I have done) to allow those things to happen. You have now moved to a different segment of your interaction with the Irish Economy, where you are entitled to a state pension (which I assume you are taking), Free Medical Services, Free Travel etc. No you won't cover those costs now with taxes this year, but it's not expected that you would. You have paid your taxes, that allowed multiple budgets and income/outgoing modifications to be made for services over 45-50 years by successive governments. Taking or leaving a medical card this year will not alleviate one single pain or trauma from a family with mortgage issues becuase they are seperate budgets, but it may alleviate some issues for your family.. and thats why it is being offered to you. Take it... I take every penny that I am entitled to, because like you I have contributed multiples of the amount I am receiving now for my son (although I am still employed and not yet pensionable age), and even if I hadn't, someone else had so that I could avail of those services. Regards.

ART6

Welease wrote: »

As before, folks are sorry for your situation and understand your pain and anger. However, with the upmost respect i think you are allowing your judgement to become clouded, or maybe I am just misreading your posts (either way my response is not intended to dismiss your situation).

If you are entitled to services, and those services are required... then claim them.. thats what they are there for...
Not claiming required services, but attacking politicians instead just seems illogical. Yes, there are wasters, but there are also decent politicians, and despite what we think they do respond to what people in this country want (it's just sometimes what we want is idiotic beyond belief)..
But they are seperate issues..

Edit - I feel i should add to this, becuase it felt uncomfortably direct..

Economies are evolving and expanding and contracting over time.. Your effect on the Irish Economy cannot be gauged by your postion in time now, it is guaged by your contribution over time (or should be). The taxes you paid over years have helped to educate people now working and contributing, keep people alive, jail nutters and pay pensions.. you contributed for years (as I have done) to allow those things to happen. You have now moved to a different segment of your interaction with the Irish Economy, where you are entitled to a state pension (which I assume you are taking), Free Medical Services, Free Travel etc. No you won't cover those costs now with taxes this year, but it's not expected that you would. You have paid your taxes, that allowed multiple budgets and income/outgoing modifications to be made for services over 45-50 years by successive governments. Taking or leaving a medical card this year will not alleviate one single pain or trauma from a family with mortgage issues becuase they are seperate budgets, but it may alleviate some issues for your family.. and thats why it is being offered to you. Take it... I take every penny that I am entitled to, because like you I have contributed multiples of the amount I am receiving now for my son (although I am still employed and not yet pensionable age), and even if I hadn't, someone else had so that I could avail of those services. Regards.

Thanks you. Welease. I appreciate your comments and am grateful for the spirit in which they were meant. I suppose that over the years I have become so sickened with politicians of all political colours that all I can see is the greed and snouts in the trough. Now, when for the first time in my life I need the support I find myself confronted with red tape that those very same politicians created. Yes, I am angry and frustrated, but I am angry and frustrated for the Irish people rather more than myself. I am angry for the way in which they have been cheated by generations of those who they elected.

I don't doubt that there are TDs out there who have a genuine interest in serving the people, but I can't get out of my mind the fact that all of them claim salaries that are well outside of those Joe Public could expect. They also claim expenses (untaxed) for simply going to work when they bother to do so, and they can avail of pensions without any contributions that the rest of us could only dream of. Even Sinn Fein, who profess to only claiming the average industrial salary, have shown themselves to be no different.

Of course, they can claim that when elected they cannot guarantee to have a job for more that five years, and so they need some security. Having spent my life in the private sector, I would have quite liked even that degree of security.

So yes, I am becoming embittered. I will look after my wife whether or not the state chooses to help me, and I am fortunate in being able to do that. I am just angry for the many, many people who are not in that position, and I apportion blame like a scatter gun because I can't identify which of the whole motley crowd is actually responsible!

Anyway, thanks to you and the other many Boardsies who have expressed sympathies. It does help an elderly anarchist who would declare war upon the establishment tomorrow if he could remember where the hell he left his car keys!

Welease

Art6.. I am so glad you took no offence to my honest post.. I am not smart or arrogant enough to claim I am always correct, but I will give an honest post and also apologise when I am in the wrong..

I can somewhat understand your pain, hence my concern.. as per the other thread I am awaiting further tests to see if my brain tumor becomes terminal. It's nothing like your pain or frustration of course either, but I have some current experience of health trauma's with the HSE, also including my 3 year old being diagnosed with Autism last year (and the HSE ignoring legislation and orders for them to complete diagnosis for months).

That said.. I have also realised that my opinion about how things could and should be done.. are just that.. my opinion.. and I no longer get angry or upset when confronted with the rediculous nature of the system. I may abhor sections of process/red tape within the HSE, but there are large sections of the populace, unions, managers, staff etc. who implement, support and will defend that status quo however much it lacks common sense and wastes money. It is also their right to do so.. If they choose to vote in politicians who will also keep that status quo that is also their right.. and I have no right or ability to deny them that.. It sucks, but thats democracy..

Nothing I can say or do will change that, so I have moved (had to) to the level where I understand the process, understand whats required of me, and ensure that I follow that and get what I can and should be provided to me when it's due. I claim about €500 per month for my son and put it direct into his bank account for him (well my wife does). Thats what he is due, so thats what we claim.. I pay my taxes and ensure everything is up to date (i have been audited by revenue twice in the last 2 years, and had over 5K tax refunded.. so I am very tax complaint). I don't make any excuses or apologies for claiming for my son (given that I earn a lot of money), and I make no claim or apologies for asserting my legal rights when it comes to the HSE.

That is the system the people in Ireland have implemented, and you and I (and everyone else) is more than entitled to ensure we claim the benefits we have been granted (god knows you've earned it)..

My best wishes to you and your family.

ART6

Welease wrote: »

Art6.. I am so glad you took no offence to my honest post.. I am not smart or arrogant enough to claim I am always correct, but I will give an honest post and also apologise when I am in the wrong..

I can somewhat understand your pain, hence my concern.. as per the other thread I am awaiting further tests to see if my brain tumor becomes terminal. It's nothing like your pain or frustration of course either, but I have some current experience of health trauma's with the HSE, also including my 3 year old being diagnosed with Autism last year (and the HSE ignoring legislation and orders for them to complete diagnosis for months).

That said.. I have also realised that my opinion about how things could and should be done.. are just that.. my opinion.. and I no longer get angry or upset when confronted with the rediculous nature of the system. I may abhor sections of process/red tape within the HSE, but there are large sections of the populace, unions, managers, staff etc. who implement, support and will defend that status quo however much it lacks common sense and wastes money. It is also their right to do so.. If they choose to vote in politicians who will also keep that status quo that is also their right.. and I have no right or ability to deny them that.. It sucks, but thats democracy..

Nothing I can say or do will change that, so I have moved (had to) to the level where I understand the process, understand whats required of me, and ensure that I follow that and get what I can and should be provided to me when it's due. I claim about €500 per month for my son and put it direct into his bank account for him (well my wife does). Thats what he is due, so thats what we claim.. I pay my taxes and ensure everything is up to date (i have been audited by revenue twice in the last 2 years, and had over 5K tax refunded.. so I am very tax complaint). I don't make any excuses or apologies for claiming for my son (given that I earn a lot of money), and I make no claim or apologies for asserting my legal rights when it comes to the HSE.

That is the system the people in Ireland have implemented, and you and I (and everyone else) is more than entitled to ensure we claim the benefits we have been granted (god knows you've earned it)..

My best wishes to you and your family.

Welease, I owe you a deep apology. I was so immersed in my own troubles and anger that I simply missed the relationship with your other posts. My problems are, at least, quantifiable. I know that my wife has a terminal illness, and so the only question is when will the inevitable happen. I have come to deal with that.

You, however, are in a much different situation, and it is for people like yourself that I feel so angry -- and ashamed for bleating when others like you are in a much worse position than I. Your posts here have shown extraordinary courage and maturity when you are facing the unknown. I can barely grasp how you must feel for your wife and your child and how you can best protect them.

I am not a religious man, but if prayers were ever of any use, then you have mine from the depths of my soul. Get well mate!

Welease

Art6, trust me.. you owe me nothing..least of all an apology I never took any of your posts as bleating, there were honest assessments of colossaly tough personal situations which you are handling with great dignity, and great discussion topics as they will eventually impact us all.

If it helps understand my position.. I don't feel down about my situation.. When my son was diagnosed, I was devastated.. I literally cried for 2 days, wondering why him, how could this beautiful child be hit with such a life changing incurable disability?.. who would look after him when we were gone? etc... Then after a few visits to Crumlin Childrens hospital I realised that I was one of the lucky ones, I got to bring him home each time and day by day he would develop in his own manner. So many parents in there will never take their child home.. I wasn't in a position to complain. I was actually one of the lucky ones.
It's the same with my tumor. I have had a wonderful life and met wonderful people.. even the muppets at least made life interesting. We are all going to go out at some stage, at least if the worst happens I enjoyed life and met wonderful people.. Plenty of people never even got that chance.. So with any time left, I am going to make sure I and my family will enjoy it.. Hell, I could be given the all clear in a few weeks and get hit by a bus on the way home .. l've been given the opportunity to realise how important people were to me, and to let them know.. I will open the papers tomorrow and sadly the headlines will be full of people who never got that chance..
I'm glad I have my son (and my daughter ), and I'm glad he has me for however long that may be... and I always have a big smile on my face .
The end result is going to be the same, I can either be miserable as sin along the journey or remember why I love them all so much and have fun.. Option B is far more pleasurable.

Look after your family mate... and utilise all of the services being made available to you.. there are wonderful people in (and out of) the HSE who
really do want to help.

I'm going to leave it there..you have my upmost respect and best wishes for the future.. Take care.

(and apologies for killing this thread... if I said something about PS pay it would be 20 pages long now )

jonniebgood1

Sometimes it is easy to get angry, sometimes it is easy to just let things be as they are. The OP and following posts are thought provoking. Going back to the main point of the OP, should you pay your way because you can afford to? It is difficult and the considerations as I see them include:

-Your contributions have earned you the right to state care now.
-The corrupt politicians and indeed overpaid high end of the HSE are irrelevant in many ways although frustrating. THey are though as you no doubt know a side issue to choosing the best option for both you and your wife. This is both in financial terms and service quality.
-Leading on from the last point is the health system is 2 tier. If you can afford to pay then you will probably get better service. The detail of that is not any of my business but you will probably know that.

That said my blood boils at some of the issues around today, none more so than health service in relation to civil service wastage. I should stop at that as a rant against that would divert this thread away. I am sorry for your personal situation. I got married 6 months ago today and it must be difficult to not be able to prevent this. More than anything it puts perspective on lifes other complaints.