Looking for cost of building a house in 2012/2013

Handsandtools

Inspection is a normal practice in most of Europe, but it can led to corruption as well
Here everyone try to build as fast as they can not as good as they can.

master of all

Handsandtools wrote: »

Inspection is a normal practice in most of Europe, but it can led to corruption as well
Here everyone try to build as fast as they can not as good as they can.

Thats correct too, yep.
But even then, an inspection brings the standards higher than here.
Very happy to see though that more and more people are searching & comparing info re different ways of building, materials, finishing, etc. That way, not saying its easy, they could make more informed decisions.

galwaytt

BryanF wrote: »

I don't agree with this.
We simply need clients to pay for design and construction support and involve a builder/ material/ system supplier who get a decent price for a good job done

You may not agree, but respectfully not informed enough. I import 2 x artics of material a week, and similarly export finished product and you are mistaken about shipping costs and their impact on building here. An artic is currently €500 per load for ferry tickets one way alone to or from the UK. Add in diesel at 6mpg. Add a lot more if you're bringing stuff from mainland Europe. We are at the periphery of Europe - that's not going to change.
One load of insulation from Spain is over 2000, and 1x load of timber from Latvia is 1900 per load.

galwaytt

Handsandtools wrote: »

If anyone have cost compared I'd like to know the outcome.
I'm at the moment calculate 4 different types of walls, hope to get them right soon.

Walls alone won't tell you enough. Roofs, internals differ between methods too.

Handsandtools

galwaytt wrote: »

Walls alone won't tell you enough. Roofs, internals differ between methods too.

I know. I calculate different external wall prices. Different walls, different materials, technology, different labor costs and price, and different maintenance costs as well.
But it's handy to know the difference. Roof is next.

Selfbuilder14

Can anybody help. We have planning permission and an architect and structural engineer doing the detailed design. We have our commencement notice in and are just under the old regs. We have had one price from a builder of 148 thousand euros not including fittings. My other half is a civil engineer should we go direct labour. My father in law says we will spend more doing things ourselves I am not so sure. How much can we save going the direct route. Also this is an extension of 1500 square feet to a small bungalow. My husband should be well suited to project managing but his family are dead against. If all it causes is stress and the monetary gains aren't there is it worth it. My father in law says we will pay more for labour as a builder has his contacts. He also says we will pay more vat on materials. Is he being unduly negative or does he have a point.

master of all

Go direct labour, I would say. Many of my customers do that & the result is every time very good. You choose the materials, you choose the finishes. That way, you will be able to keep all very close to what you planed to achieve, even most times much better.
Also, good tradesmen, who take pride in what they do, can advice you what is best in your case /not the cheapest, not the most expensive, but the best/

A builder will give you a quote, and from there he will try make the most with cheapest materials /witnessed that one too many times!/

It sound like your other half, being and civil engineer, is more than 'well suited' to project manage the build .

The stress will be there even if a builder takes over. You will have to face & make quite a few important decisions yourself.

When you go direct labour, you choose who works onto your project, meaning, you find tradesmen by recommendations, looking at their work, quotes, etc.
When a builder gets there, you can't tell him who to hire .... And yes, he has his contacts, but that means nearly nothing.
Besides, for a good job you always should expect to pay slightly more. It makes no sense when a builder gives you a low price, you to expect high quality material/finish.

Have no knowledge of direct labour build gone bad, when you choose well the people to work with. It might take longer, but so does with builders too.

If you have a very detailed list of required materials/works/finishes; very good & punctual project manager/supervisor who will follow execution of the works & use of the stated materials, then you go with a builder. That way, you know what you are getting. Not less, not more. And the bill will start going up with every change you make.

Building of a private house, or extending, in your case, is an evolving process. You will find yourself changing things as you go. Direct labour will give you the freedom to do so, without paying way too much.

You might not save money with direct labour, but definitely could get higher specs in, which is in a way stretching your money .

sheff the ref

I would say save costs by cutting out the middle man and I am in the same position as you, started just in time under the old system. However I will take every day as it comes, every component as it comes. and wont get headaches from the project as I have worked in this area before and time is not really a huge factor.

The biggest problem people have with direct labour are
1.They cannot commit the huge time necessary to manage the project
2.They do not have an engineer commissioned for the job to do inspections as it progresses and therefore if something unseen is wrong, there are ramifications later in the project.
3.They get stressed easily if something is held up and that accumulates over time building up a lot of stress
4.They are racing against the clock to get the job finished.

However

Selfbuilder14 wrote: »

Can anybody help. We have planning permission and an architect and structural engineer doing the detailed design. We have our commencement notice in and are just under the old regs. We have had one price from a builder of 148 thousand euros not including fittings. My other half is a civil engineer should we go direct labour. My father in law says we will spend more doing things ourselves I am not so sure. How much can we save going the direct route. Also this is an extension of 1500 square feet to a small bungalow. My husband should be well suited to project managing but his family are dead against. If all it causes is stress and the monetary gains aren't there is it worth it. My father in law says we will pay more for labour as a builder has his contacts. He also says we will pay more vat on materials. Is he being unduly negative or does he have a point.

Selfbuilder14

sheff the ref wrote: »

I would say save costs by cutting out the middle man and I am in the same position as you, started just in time under the old system. However I will take every day as it comes, every component as it comes. and wont get headaches from the project as I have worked in this area before and time is not really a huge factor.

The biggest problem people have with direct labour are
1.They cannot commit the huge time necessary to manage the project
2.They do not have an engineer commissioned for the job to do inspections as it progresses and therefore if something unseen is wrong, there are ramifications later in the project.
3.They get stressed easily if something is held up and that accumulates over time building up a lot of stress
4.They are racing against the clock to get the job finished.

However

thanks

My husband is working full time but I will be at home with the kids so can deal with problems as they arise. We have an engineer to sign off at varying points and we are in no great hurry as we will continue living on site in our existing house. We are building a separate building and joining with a link so there will be minimal disruption. Our site can be divided easily and has its own new entrance. I think we should self build but trying to convince my father in law who thinks we have no idea what we are getting into and is very negative causing unnecessary stress is another story.

master of all

You may not have a clue now 'what you are getting into' as per your in-low, but with a bit common sense, with a more or less established ideas of what you want and the experience of your husband, you will manage alright. And, very importantly, you are not rushing to get into the new house. Your set up sounds to be very conveniently prepared for the new build.
The satisfaction of what you are going to achieve would be way greater than if you leave anybody else do it for you, believe me.

Handsandtools

Selfbuilder14 wrote: »

Can anybody help. We have planning permission and an architect and structural engineer doing the detailed design. We have our commencement notice in and are just under the old regs. We have had one price from a builder of 148 thousand euros not including fittings. My other half is a civil engineer should we go direct labour. My father in law says we will spend more doing things ourselves I am not so sure. How much can we save going the direct route. Also this is an extension of 1500 square feet to a small bungalow. My husband should be well suited to project managing but his family are dead against. If all it causes is stress and the monetary gains aren't there is it worth it. My father in law says we will pay more for labour as a builder has his contacts. He also says we will pay more vat on materials. Is he being unduly negative or does he have a point.

So You got all You need: engineer, project manager, all You need is a tradesman.
There always will be stress, delays and problems no matter what way you go.

themacdaddy

Hi All,

I am a first time buyer on the look out for a home. There is a site for sale near where I live with a half constructed house. It is for sale with planning permission (to finish off the house to the plans). The house will look great when completed going by the plans but there are many issues concerning me. The details are as follows...

Construction of a dormer bungalow, detached garage and treatment system. The foundations are in and cavity blocks are up for the bottom floor. There is no roof or anything covering the blocks. The plans are 326 sq/m. Also a tiny existing cottage will have to be demolished also at the entrance to the property.

I have a few questions.

The site has been like that for the last 2 years. Will the existing structure possibly be damaged by the wind, rain, ice etc over the last 2 years? Who do you get to value it?

Also, who could accurately predict the cost of completing the building. By luck of chance my friend is a team mate of the architect who drew up the plans. Would he be the man to approach?

Sorry I am a new to all this so any advice would be appreciated. The site has been listed for on a property site for over 2 years.

Thanks.

galwaytt

themacdaddy wrote: »

Hi All,

I am a first time buyer on the look out for a home. There is a site for sale near where I live with a half constructed house. It is for sale with planning permission (to finish off the house to the plans). The house will look great when completed going by the plans but there are many issues concerning me. The details are as follows...

Construction of a dormer bungalow, detached garage and treatment system. The foundations are in and cavity blocks are up for the bottom floor. There is no roof or anything covering the blocks. The plans are 326 sq/m. Also a tiny existing cottage will have to be demolished also at the entrance to the property.

I have a few questions.

The site has been like that for the last 2 years. Will the existing structure possibly be damaged by the wind, rain, ice etc over the last 2 years? Who do you get to value it?

Also, who could accurately predict the cost of completing the building. By luck of chance my friend is a team mate of the architect who drew up the plans. Would he be the man to approach?

Sorry I am a new to all this so any advice would be appreciated. The site has been listed for on a property site for over 2 years.

Thanks.

It is possible that the blockwork may have some frost damage/heave, so you would need an engineer to look at it. There again, it may be fine. Ditto for the foundations as well.

When you say 'cavity blocks' is that what you actually mean - a wall made from 225mm cavity blocks, or is it a cavity wall built in blockwork.......... ?

If the former, frankly, I'd be for knocking them and starting again - it's not as big a deal as you might think. If the site is at the right price it really doesn't matter.

Handsandtools

themacdaddy wrote: »

Hi All,

I am a first time buyer on the look out for a home. There is a site for sale near where I live with a half constructed house. It is for sale with planning permission (to finish off the house to the plans). The house will look great when completed going by the plans but there are many issues concerning me. The details are as follows...

Construction of a dormer bungalow, detached garage and treatment system. The foundations are in and cavity blocks are up for the bottom floor. There is no roof or anything covering the blocks. The plans are 326 sq/m. Also a tiny existing cottage will have to be demolished also at the entrance to the property.

I have a few questions.

The site has been like that for the last 2 years. Will the existing structure possibly be damaged by the wind, rain, ice etc over the last 2 years? Who do you get to value it?

Also, who could accurately predict the cost of completing the building. By luck of chance my friend is a team mate of the architect who drew up the plans. Would he be the man to approach?

Sorry I am a new to all this so any advice would be appreciated. The site has been listed for on a property site for over 2 years.

Thanks.

Site survey must do for inspection. Foundation has to be fine and possible well settled. Don't think in two years there was a lot of frost to damage block work, but still, better make sure.
Than You can get QS on Your new project to get costs together, but exact cost You will only get at the end of project.

Jactal

Hey, could anyone recommend a decent builder in the wexford area. planning on building a small extension connecting an old farmhouse and a two storey barn. Its a charity project where young people from the city go to learn about sustainable development and growing vegetables.

hippy_hi

I would recommend <snip>He is from New Ross area and he was excellent at building my house. He stuck by the time scale and was great to deal with - to the point. His number is <snip>

recommendations by PM only . read the forum charter before posting again. Thanks

Relayer69

Hi
We have Planning Permission just through (retention and new) to complete a 1.5 building of just under 4k sq ft.
Current build includes all ground works, slab, all external walls to first floor level and the attached garage and space above complete with tiled roof.
What kind of % reduction on the build cost can we realistically consider?
Property is in the country near Ballingeary, Cork and our architects and QS are from Wicklow and quoting us €100 psf reduced to €75.
Not asking if the figure is reasonable as that depends on many other factors and finishes, but I was thinking that the reduction would be more than 25%.
Thanks in advance

DOCARCH

Relayer69 wrote: »

What kind of % reduction on the build cost can we realistically consider?

Why? For what?

Relayer69

The reduction is to take into account the works already completed: so if the house is sized at 4k Sq Ft and the rate is €100psf then the total build cost is €400k. If a proportion of the build is completed then there is a pro rata reduction.
Hence the question - what is a reasonable allowance for the already completed section of this house? My QS is suggesting 25%.....

kkelliher

Relayer69 wrote: »

The reduction is to take into account the works already completed: so if the house is sized at 4k Sq Ft and the rate is €100psf then the total build cost is €400k. If a proportion of the build is completed then there is a pro rata reduction.
Hence the question - what is a reasonable allowance for the already completed section of this house? My QS is suggesting 25%.....

100% sure why not. Its the best answer i can give to the most open ended question i have even seen asked. How do you expect anyone to answer your question when there is no way anyone can know what works are complete.

Relayer69

As per my original message: Current build includes all ground works, slab, all external walls to first floor level and the attached garage and space above complete with tiled roof.
Sorry if this wasn't clear the first time. I am just trying to get a rough estimate.

Handsandtools

kkelliher wrote: »

100% sure why not. Its the best answer i can give to the most open ended question i have even seen asked. How do you expect anyone to answer your question when there is no way anyone can know what works are complete.

So based on the average that shell and core cost 25-30% of all construction (direct) expenses, Your QS is probably right.

kkelliher

Handsandtools wrote: »

So based on the average that shell and core cost 25-30% of all construction (direct) expenses, Your QS is probably right.

That is the best back of a fag pack calculation i have ever seen. It would be just as scientific to throw darts at a dart board and come up with a number. I assume and hope the qs did more of a calculation than this given the size of the property involved. I would also assume you have a sign off of the existing complete works as a new commencement notice will be required (i believe) and therefore new regs may apply. I personally believe that you will need more than 100 sq ft to finish the house

Relayer69

Handsandtools wrote: »

So based on the average that shell and core cost 25-30% of all construction (direct) expenses, Your QS is probably right.

Thanks for the input

wirehairmax

Handsandtools wrote: »

So based on the average that shell and core cost 25-30% of all construction (direct) expenses, Your QS is probably right.

How in the name of Jesus can you deduct that gem of an opinion from such limited factual information? It's true what they say: "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

Handsandtools

I sad based on average not exact numbers.
It's impossible to give price of project true the on-line chat
But working with similar projects regularly gives You idea what the cost can be.
In Ireland 70% on middle-class houses are very similar, it's not rocket since to predict average cost it's called experience!

kkelliher

Handsandtools wrote: »

I sad based on average not exact numbers.
It's impossible to give price of project true the on-line chat
But working with similar projects regularly gives You idea what the cost can be.
In Ireland 70% on middle-class houses are very similar, it's not rocket since to predict average cost it's called experience!

Experience would tell differently in that experience should tell you that no two houses are generally the same and the % in the 4000sqft bracket are even less so simply plucking a % out of the sky is not in my opinion in any way an experience based calculation. this must also be taken with the fact that there is a very large assumption that the "completed" woks are acceptable.

Handsandtools

kkelliher wrote: »

Experience would tell differently in that experience should tell you that no two houses are generally the same and the % in the 4000sqft bracket are even less so simply plucking a % out of the sky is not in my opinion in any way an experience based calculation. this must also be taken with the fact that there is a very large assumption that the "completed" woks are acceptable.

''Calculation''??? Who sad calculation? You sound like a young student who try's to impress with precise calculations in the on-line chat room. Here we talk about average, without knowing the details. So the cost is average.
Complete building work is complete building work, with no furniture in it.
Average prices are used to calculate average costs before engaging QS etc.

kkelliher

Handsandtools wrote: »

''Calculation''??? Who sad calculation? You sound like a young student who try's to impress with precise calculations in the on-line chat room. Here we talk about average, without knowing the details. So the cost is average.
Complete building work is complete building work, with no furniture in it.
Average prices are used to calculate average costs before engaging QS etc.

If you pay for a QS's advice I assume you expect more than plucking a % out of the sky. If he has stated 25% I would assume he has carried out some sort of "calculation" yes "calculation" to come up with his figure. I am far from a young student and I fail to see how this has any relevance. My point like that of others has being very clear, there is no such thing as an average reduction for works completed and you are, in my opinion, completely incorrect to suggest that there is. The OP has asked for an answer to something that simply cannot be given on on online forum as a "calculation" of the completed works is the only way of answering the question. I would hazard a guess that the fact they are looking at a half built property may have resulted from a previous owners budget being based on "average" figures like so many of the incomplete houses that dot the countryside.

Handsandtools

kkelliher wrote: »

If you pay for a QS's advice I assume you expect more than plucking a % out of the sky. If he has stated 25% I would assume he has carried out some sort of "calculation" yes "calculation" to come up with his figure. I am far from a young student and I fail to see how this has any relevance. My point like that of others has being very clear, there is no such thing as an average reduction for works completed and you are, in my opinion, completely incorrect to suggest that there is. The OP has asked for an answer to something that simply cannot be given on on online forum as a "calculation" of the completed works is the only way of answering the question. I would hazard a guess that the fact they are looking at a half built property may have resulted from a previous owners budget being based on "average" figures like so many of the incomplete houses that dot the countryside.

I didn't mean reductions, I just say about average cost of shell and core, compare to whole construction costs.
And I believe if QS sad around 25% than he didn't tell that for no reason.
There will be savings made due to foundations and walls are already built, so you can't say it's nothing. It's relevant depends on what they want to build.