Looking for cost of building a house in 2012/2013

kkelliher

Handsandtools wrote: »

I didn't mean reductions, I just say about average cost of shell and core, compare to whole construction costs.
And I believe if QS sad around 25% than he didn't tell that for no reason.
There will be savings made due to foundations and walls are already built, so you can't say it's nothing. It's relevant depends on what they want to build.

I fully agree but I would believe that the QS would have completed some sort of review / calc to come up with the 25% and not simply plucked from the sky. The issue of certification of the foundations etc is a major issue that should not be overlooked and it may be that they are worth nothing if you can get an engineer to stand over them as they may have to be replaced.

yoginindublin

Hi! I just finished a complete renovation of an apartment. Granted its not a house, let me just say that kitchen alone you can spend as little as or as much. In the end it will depend on the spec of the materials you want. I suggest get a good architect who will make the drawings. Before that it would be good if you did some research on things that you want to have in your house. There's lots of ideas online and be as detailed as you can. From your ideas, get an architect and discuss. Be open to their ideas as well and then have drawings done for tender. You can get a few builders to do a tender given the spec of the drawing of your architect and the preliminaries. I had the following drawings for tender: (a) demolition plan (b) revised electrical plan (c) floor finishes (d) existing plan (e) proposed services.

It is good to be as specific as you can on your details as this will mean that there will be a smaller variance. I have completely renovated our apartment and also have built my business from core and shell and if you are not specific, the variance can be a big surprise in the end. Hope this helps!

Handsandtools

kkelliher wrote: »

I fully agree but I would believe that the QS would have completed some sort of review / calc to come up with the 25% and not simply plucked from the sky. The issue of certification of the foundations etc is a major issue that should not be overlooked and it may be that they are worth nothing if you can get an engineer to stand over them as they may have to be replaced.

Ok, I got you, but when I mean average I mean if they build house on existing foundations and from existing plans.
There's always differences in projects, but not as huge as you sad. If You plan to build a development with 100 houses you won't do QS on all of them if they ass same design. I don't talk about interior design, i look at it separately.
And for You to know, these empty buildings are not because of builders, but because of people. If You look on cost of them say average semi-d house cost 50-70k to build, but was sold for 300-550k to the people who make 40k a year. All QS and costs was done right, the sales prices was over the top.

Handsandtools

yoginindublin wrote: »

Hi! I just finished a complete renovation of an apartment. Granted its not a house, let me just say that kitchen alone you can spend as little as or as much. In the end it will depend on the spec of the materials you want. I suggest get a good architect who will make the drawings. Before that it would be good if you did some research on things that you want to have in your house. There's lots of ideas online and be as detailed as you can. From your ideas, get an architect and discuss. Be open to their ideas as well and then have drawings done for tender. You can get a few builders to do a tender given the spec of the drawing of your architect and the preliminaries. I had the following drawings for tender: (a) demolition plan (b) revised electrical plan (c) floor finishes (d) existing plan (e) proposed services.

It is good to be as specific as you can on your details as this will mean that there will be a smaller variance. I have completely renovated our apartment and also have built my business from core and shell and if you are not specific, the variance can be a big surprise in the end. Hope this helps!

You talk about individual project and extras on interior design, but not building it self.

kkelliher

Handsandtools wrote: »

Ok, I got you, but when I mean average I mean if they build house on existing foundations and from existing plans.
There's always differences in projects, but not as huge as you sad. If You plan to build a development with 100 houses you won't do QS on all of them if they ass same design. I don't talk about interior design, i look at it separately.
And for You to know, these empty buildings are not because of builders, but because of people. If You look on cost of them say average semi-d house cost 50-70k to build, but was sold for 300-550k to the people who make 40k a year. All QS and costs was done right, the sales prices was over the top.

I would have to disagree as an estate with 100 houses has alot more than just houses including site development, drainage systems, public lighting, footpaths, roadways, signage, landscaping etc etc. There is also generally a number of different housetypes and some with differing elevations.

I also was referring to the one off incomplete houses that dot the countryside and not ghost estates. I think it is also safe to say that there is no house in the country that cost 50-70k to build as you have to factor in the land cost, stamp duty, professional fees, contributions, site drainage systems, water systems, roadways, footpaths, public lighting, legal fees, boundary treatments, connections, VAT etc etc if you are going to compare to the sales price.

Handsandtools

kkelliher wrote: »

I would have to disagree as an estate with 100 houses has alot more than just houses including site development, drainage systems, public lighting, footpaths, roadways, signage, landscaping etc etc. There is also generally a number of different housetypes and some with differing elevations.

I also was referring to the one off incomplete houses that dot the countryside and not ghost estates. I think it is also safe to say that there is no house in the country that cost 50-70k to build as you have to factor in the land cost, stamp duty, professional fees, contributions, site drainage systems, water systems, roadways, footpaths, public lighting, legal fees, boundary treatments, connections, VAT etc etc if you are going to compare to the sales price.

I talk about building a house, I didn't talk about infrastructure to it.
When You build 100-300 houses in the middle of nowhere, the cost of land is very small and all other costs retailed to development and divided per unit is much less then You think.
Looks like You never worked on construction site during the ''tiger'' years.
Today You can't build a house for that money, because of regulations, BER etc., back then You can build a shed looking like house and sell it for 10times the cost.
As I sad about this countryside unfinished house. If they go ahead with original plans, not something new, than they save. But if they decided to go for new one than it's different story. I think that they mean to stick to it's original planing.

kkelliher

This statement:

Handsandtools wrote: »

I talk about building a house, I didn't talk about infrastructure to it.
When You build 100-300 houses in the middle of nowhere, the cost of land is very small and all other costs retailed to development and divided per unit is much less then You think.

would appear at complete odds with this statement as you cant compare a sales price with only part of the build cost as that gives a complete incorrect view of profit margins and also gives a completly incorrect view as to why a sales prices is what it is:

Handsandtools wrote: »

If You look on cost of them say average semi-d house cost 50-70k to build, but was sold for 300-550k to the people who make 40k a year. All QS and costs was done right, the sales prices was over the top.

Handsandtools wrote: »

Looks like You never worked on construction site during the ''tiger'' years.

I was the commerical manager responsible for feasability on site purchases, quantity surveying, budgets, sales and construction of over 250 units in Dublin and alos in some rural areas during the boom. The profit margin on all of the units was circa 15%, all units were sold, all loans paid off and my employer at the time is still trading without any bank finance issues. I am fully aware of the actual costs of what construction (and I mean all its componant parts, as there is little point in building a house with no roads or infrastructure around it) was in the boom, and I did not see anything like the margins that your previous posts imply, but then I was involved in a company that built a decent standard of accommodaton and finish.

Handsandtools

kkelliher wrote: »

This statement:



would appear at complete odds with this statement as you cant compare a sales price with only part of the build cost as that gives a complete incorrect view of profit margins and also gives a completly incorrect view as to why a sales prices is what it is:







I was the commerical manager responsible for feasability on site purchases, quantity surveying, budgets, sales and construction of over 250 units in Dublin and alos in some rural areas during the boom. The profit margin on all of the units was circa 15%, all units were sold, all loans paid off and my employer at the time is still trading without any bank finance issues. I am fully aware of the actual costs of what construction (and I mean all its componant parts, as there is little point in building a house with no roads or infrastructure around it) was in the boom, and I did not see anything like the margins that your previous posts imply, but then I was involved in a company that built a decent standard of accommodaton and finish.

Ok. I get where You coming from, but did Your company was a general contractor as well?
1) I didn't combine house building with infrastructure, because it's different work.
2) I talk about construction costs not whole project development costs, because I look from builders not investors point.
3) So if Your company build 250 unit development, than you know that for same units You apply same costs, instead of QS all units separately.
4) As a builder I know the direct costs of construction, without adding all other expenses. When build single private house on the owners land, You have a different site development costs. But there was question about direct building costs of house not whole infrastructure.
5) As a understand You are more economist than builder, because builders know average costs and % of each part of construction process. Ask any lecturer who teaches construction management.
6)As a costumer who buy house, he owns just a house and maybe land under it, but not roads around it etc. .
7) I didn't say You are wrong, just say You look at it from different perspective.
8) Housing units usually are just part of development so it's different costs and depends on lot's of things. But if prices for each house in country is different, than You talk about average house prices. They are different by regions, depending on different factors, but within region they are quiet similar for similar type of houses.
9) I know for sure, that direct costs for housing units where 50-70k. Then overheads and revenue build up the rest.
P.S.
I really enjoy discussion with You and I believe that You are good at what You are doing.

kkelliher

Handsandtools wrote: »

Ok. I get where You coming from, but did Your company was a general contractor as well?
1) I didn't combine house building with infrastructure, because it's different work.
2) I talk about construction costs not whole project development costs, because I look from builders not investors point.
3) So if Your company build 250 unit development, than you know that for same units You apply same costs, instead of QS all units separately.
4) As a builder I know the direct costs of construction, without adding all other expenses. When build single private house on the owners land, You have a different site development costs. But there was question about direct building costs of house not whole infrastructure.
5) As a understand You are more economist than builder, because builders know average costs and % of each part of construction process. Ask any lecturer who teaches construction management.
6)As a costumer who buy house, he owns just a house and maybe land under it, but not roads around it etc. .
7) I didn't say You are wrong, just say You look at it from different perspective.
8) Housing units usually are just part of development so it's different costs and depends on lot's of things. But if prices for each house in country is different, than You talk about average house prices. They are different by regions, depending on different factors, but within region they are quiet similar for similar type of houses.
9) I know for sure, that direct costs for housing units where 50-70k. Then overheads and revenue build up the rest.
P.S.
I really enjoy discussion with You and I believe that You are good at what You are doing.

This is the last post on this i will add as i believe it has gone off topic.
We directly built all of the units we developed and i still think you miss the point as you must include infrastructure costs in the house build cost as they are integral to the use of the house and to do otherwise if simply false accounting

Handsandtools

kkelliher wrote: »

This is the last post on this i will add as i believe it has gone off topic.
We directly built all of the units we developed and i still think you miss the point as you must include infrastructure costs in the house build cost as they are integral to the use of the house and to do otherwise if simply false accounting

So how did You price infrastructure for each building separately, because there's no average as You say.
I believe most lots where same size and foundation same size, I don't talk about interior design, but shell and core. It's easy to get foundation cost compare to rest of the building costs and You'll get your 25% +- 5%

kkelliher

Handsandtools wrote: »

So how did You price infrastructure for each building separately, because there's no average as You say.
I believe most lots where same size and foundation same size, I don't talk about interior design, but shell and core. It's easy to get foundation cost compare to rest of the building costs and You'll get your 25% +- 5%

I have already answered this again and again so no point in duplicating for a further time. I personally dont believe you fully undertsand the idea of actual cost of a build (you cant cherry pick some items in and some items out to suit your needs like you have done comparing the cost of building the actual house with the sales price and leaving out the development costs, infrastructure, professional fees, contributions etc)

My point is quite simple (and for the last time). There is no average cost for foundations on a one off property like the original question asked as you cannot average what a site may be like, what shape the building is, what the overall footprint ont he ground floor is, what depth the foundations require were, what type of foundation was installed, what reinforcement was used, what wall construction was used etc etc etc

Handsandtools

kkelliher wrote: »

I have already answered this again and again so no point in duplicating for a further time. I personally dont believe you fully undertsand the idea of actual cost of a build (you cant cherry pick some items in and some items out to suit your needs like you have done comparing the cost of building the actual house with the sales price and leaving out the development costs, infrastructure, professional fees, contributions etc)

My point is quite simple (and for the last time). There is no average cost for foundations on a one off property like the original question asked as you cannot average what a site may be like, what shape the building is, what the overall footprint ont he ground floor is, what depth the foundations require were, what type of foundation was installed, what reinforcement was used, what wall construction was used etc etc etc

I leave out development cost as we talk about single unit and costumers at the end of the day own just a unit not infrastructure around. I know you right about overall costs etc., but it has nothing to do with single unit.
So about foundations, we didn't compare houses in different parts of the world, but in Ireland. Where depth of foundation is similar. And if you take all your previous projects and calculate cost of foundation, than compare to cost of all building, you will get ''average''.
Because foundation are already in there's no way that cost can change.
Comparing different reinforcement used for different foundations and than impact on whole building costs is nonsense as it will be just a small fraction of all cost.

bmm

joeirish wrote: »

Just found some more great information online on how to deal with issues such as junctions, airtightness, thermal bypass etc.

Linky??

Rosen

Maybe ye two boys should go build a room

Handsandtools wrote: »

I leave out development cost as we talk about single unit and costumers at the end of the day own just a unit not infrastructure around. I know you right about overall costs etc., but it has nothing to do with single unit.
So about foundations, we didn't compare houses in different parts of the world, but in Ireland. Where depth of foundation is similar. And if you take all your previous projects and calculate cost of foundation, than compare to cost of all building, you will get ''average''.
Because foundation are already in there's no way that cost can change.
Comparing different reinforcement used for different foundations and than impact on whole building costs is nonsense as it will be just a small fraction of all cost.

blue star

UrbanFret wrote: »

You can do it no problem. I have finished a 1950sq ft dormer including kitchen, bathroom ,utility, e.t.c for €117,500. Ber rating A3. Took me 2 years and a lifetime of grief but i got there and so can you!

Fair play @urbanfret...house looks great I have a similar budget.. how many bedrooms have you got? are they all upstairs? Am looking to build in Kildare and as im on a very tight budget we want a storey and half but does anyone know how much extra it would cost instead of a bunglow??

Any advice from anyone much appreciated

Thanks in advance

Help_me!

Folks,

I'm looking to get a very rough estimate cost for a builders finish for a dormer in Tipp similar to the one in the link attached daft.ie/1942653/. The house is approx 3200 Sq. feet. Unfortunately I can't post the plans here as I'm a "Newbie". Any response would be greatly appreciated

kilclon

375k ish should close to finish it

blue star

does builders finish mean...just sealed?? We were told 100euro per sq m. so approx. 320.000!!

BryanF

blue star wrote: »

does builders finish mean...just sealed?? We were told 100euro per sq m. so approx. 320.000!!

Who told you? And what specification & detailed drawings did you give for that 'quote'?

A builders finish is a loose interpretation, ask the person who gave you the quote what it means.

will your mortgage lender except a 'builders finish' quote?

kkelliher

blue star wrote: »

does builders finish mean...just sealed?? We were told 100euro per sq m. so approx. 320.000!!

always remember that this is a ball park average price for which inclusions will differ from person to person. Always remember that with an average price, there will be properties well above average and properties well below so it really is just a high level guide.

Help_me!

Sorry, my terminology is probably wrong. I'm looking for cost to first fix (foundation to putting plaster on the internal walls, which would include constructing walls, floors and ceilings, and inserting cables for electrical supply and pipes for water supply).

galwaytt

Fyi got a letter in the post today that XPS is going up 5% on 16th June............

niamhcw

hi Galwaytt, what is 'xps'

galwaytt

niamhcw wrote: »

hi Galwaytt, what is 'xps'

Extruded Polystyrene - aka, insulation (one type). Where XPS goes, everything else usually follows.........it went up in March already - that's 2 price hikes in one quarter..........

galwaytt

...saw a potential clients QS prepared costings on Friday.

2 storey, 277 sq m, nominally A2 rating: €378,000 Inc VAT and all inspections etc. . Which works out at €1,364 per m2.

MizMix

Hi Galway TT, we're hoping to keep costs at 1100 including VAT per square metre excluding professional fees, big council levy, stamp duty etc and kitchen- we're in the NE. Architect suggested that as a ballpark. Aiming for A3 BER and aluclad windows (which I know will cost a lot more). Given the new regulations are we dreaming? OH was a carpenter years back (and still v good) so he'll do a few floors etc but that won't save much. Tight on budget as only my husbands basic earnings being considered for a mortgage (half his take home pay was commission last year) and I'm self employed just less than 2 years. Did your client have any particular features that would have bumped costs up or is this pretty standard for 2014? Presume going from an A3 to A2 costs quite a bit more....

galwaytt

@mizmix..... You're not that far off - your interior spend alone may give you enough latitude, but I do think it's tight.

We're starting one in Drogheda soon, so I'll have NE figures then

MizMix

Thanks Galway TT, may have to cut 10 or so m2 from the design or see if we can manage an extra 10-15k from the banks!

kkelliher

galwaytt wrote: »

...saw a potential clients QS prepared costings on Friday.

2 storey, 277 sq m, nominally A2 rating: €378,000 Inc VAT and all inspections etc. . Which works out at €1,364 per m2.

The warning will be in the detail. I would assume the qs will have included allowances for finishes, joinery, glazing, sanitary ware, kitchen, etc so this would need to be managed. Last two clients i had who had a 5k budget for sanitary ware in the initial costing, 1 spent 8.5k and the other 11k as they both went mad on the bath so you have to keep it in mind. Windows will vary greatly. I just had quotes for 2 4m wide x 2.4m high windows come in from 6k to over 18k for differing materials.

Does the price it include paving, boundaries, driveways, landscaping etc?

galwaytt

kkelliher wrote: »

The warning will be in the detail. I would assume the qs will have included allowances for finishes, joinery, glazing, sanitary ware, kitchen, etc so this would need to be managed. Last two clients i had who had a 5k budget for sanitary ware in the initial costing, 1 spent 8.5k and the other 11k as they both went mad on the bath so you have to keep it in mind. Windows will vary greatly. I just had quotes for 2 4m wide x 2.4m high windows come in from 6k to over 18k for differing materials.

Does the price it include paving, boundaries, driveways, landscaping etc?

yep, all in.

Now, for contrast, 300 m2, higher spec, some zinc etc, 29k for Windows, €430k. That's €1433 per m2, including demolition of existing house (Galway)