Looking for cost of building a house in 2012/2013

June Bird

fclauson wrote: »

no:(

would be a tight squeeze for this amount but spec would not be great you would get a 1,200-1,400 built for 90k (no landscaping / boundary walls / gates just house)

also you'd have to compromise on quality of windows / front door

of course your site would be on top of that price

kkelliher

June Bird wrote: »

would be a tight squeeze for this amount but spec would not be great you would get a 1,200-1,400 built for 90k (no landscaping / boundary walls / gates just house)

also you'd have to compromise on quality of windows / front door

of course your site would be on top of that price

at 1400ft2, 90k works out at €64.29 per square foot. When VAT is taken into account that would equate to an average build cost of circa €56.64 per square foot and there is absolutely no chance that this can be achieved in accordance with current build regulations (unless you have a lot of free labour).

It also takes no account of:

planning costs
planning contributions
Utility Connection costs
Sewage and water supply and treatment if not connected to a mains
professional fees
site
stamp duty
legal costs
etc

W123-80's

Well guys,
Been keeping an eye on this thread lately. Sobering and frightening reading.! But very useful.

Anyway, we are in the process of looking to build a house. Just wondering if you could provide some information around the management of the build and rough costs.

We own the site and I have planning secured for a straightforward dormer. 2,600 sq foot. I have water connected to the site, paid for this 18 months ago.
We have a sizable lump of cash to go along with whatever the mortgage broker will give us. He has said he thinks lenders are working of the figure of €85 per sq ft for rural areas.

We hope to do a self build, but we are very frightened by all these new regs. My brother and sister both self built, but that was 10 years ago.

We hope to be in the house for €180k. My brother is a chippie so good bit of cheap labour there, brother in law does ground works so should be able to get a favourable price for that. I intend to do alot of the basic site work myself along with the brother and brother in law. i.e chasing walls, labouring on brother for roof, labouring at ground work stage, anything else I can save money on..etc.

1. Am I dreaming on the price?
2. Am I dreaming to be able to do a self build without falling foul of regs?
3. Is there no idiots guide list of stuff that has to be completed and checked whether its a self build or main contractor??

kkelliher

W123-80's wrote: »

He has said he thinks lenders are working of the figure of €85 per sq ft for rural areas.

This must be the rational that they used to hand out billions to developers for developments that never happened. In the main no two one off rural buildings are the same, cost the same, have the same landscape, the same specification or are built by the same people so simple economics will show that you cannot have a similar cost per ft2 across all properties. I previously witnessed a bank give out over €10 million for a development on the basis of a simple spread sheet calculation on costs. One page with costs per ft2. When the development was completed the costs were 34% higher than that that was allowed in the original calculation and the development was only successful on the basis of higher sales prices on the units. Banks need to get a sense of reality in respect to giving out money for new builds and in the main I think they have as we have seen a marked increase in the requirement for actual budgets for submission to financial institutions on mortgages.

W123-80's wrote: »

We hope to do a self build, but we are very frightened by all these new regs. My brother and sister both self built, but that was 10 years ago..

IF you get a commencement notice lodged by close of business on the 28th February next you will avoid most of the new regulations. There was some new health and safety regulations which kicked in on the 1st August last which do require the appointment of Project supervisor on all projects over 100 days in duration or with more than one builder so this is something you will need to take account of.

If you miss the 28th February deadline I think its fair to say the self build option will not financially be the way to go in future given you will need to employ registered professionals to supervise, certify and carry out the work.

W123-80's wrote: »

We hope to be in the house for €180k.

This will be very much dictated by what actually happens here

W123-80's wrote: »

My brother is a chippie so good bit of cheap labour there, brother in law does ground works so should be able to get a favourable price for that. I intend to do alot of the basic site work myself along with the brother and brother in law. i.e chasing walls, labouring on brother for roof, labouring at ground work stage, anything else I can save money on..etc.

What ever way you go I hope it works out as planned.

DOCARCH

kkelliher wrote: »

....on all projects over 100 days in duration....

Just to clarify...30 days duration or 500 man hours...and that's the limit/threshold for formally notifing the HSA (i.e. if a project will take more than 30 days or 500 man hours, the HSA must be notified).

Certain projects/works of duration of less than 30 days or 500 man hours will still require the appointment of a PSDP and PSCS...but you do not have to inform the HSA.

kkelliher

DOCARCH wrote: »

Just to clarify...30 days duration or 500 man hours...and that's the limit/threshold for formally notifing the HSA (i.e. if a project will take more than 30 days or 500 man hours, the HSA must be notified).

Certain projects/works of duration of less than 30 days or 500 man hours will still require the appointment of a PSDP and PSCS...but you do not have to inform the HSA.

completely correct apologies typo on 100

W123-80's

kkelliher wrote: »

This must be the rational that they used to hand out billions to developers for developments that never happened. In the main no two one off rural buildings are the same, cost the same, have the same landscape, the same specification or are built by the same people so simple economics will show that you cannot have a similar cost per ft2 across all properties. I previously witnessed a bank give out over €10 million for a development on the basis of a simple spread sheet calculation on costs. One page with costs per ft2. When the development was completed the costs were 34% higher than that that was allowed in the original calculation and the development was only successful on the basis of higher sales prices on the units. Banks need to get a sense of reality in respect to giving out money for new builds and in the main I think they have as we have seen a marked increase in the requirement for actual budgets for submission to financial institutions on mortgages.




IF you get a commencement notice lodged by close of business on the 28th February next you will avoid most of the new regulations. There was some new health and safety regulations which kicked in on the 1st August last which do require the appointment of Project supervisor on all projects over 100 days in duration or with more than one builder so this is something you will need to take account of.

If you miss the 28th February deadline I think its fair to say the self build option will not financially be the way to go in future given you will need to employ registered professionals to supervise, certify and carry out the work.




This will be very much dictated by what actually happens here



What ever way you go I hope it works out as planned.

Thank you for the detailed response. Much appreciated.

Out of interest if I lodge a commencement notice before Feb 28th, how far in advance can I put down as my commencement date?

Thanks.

sheff the ref

butler_767 wrote: »

I understand that I dont have nearly enough information but am I just dreaming or could it be possible to build a 3 bedroom bungalow (basic, nothing special) with a budget or 80 to 90k. Literally just had the thought as I was going to buy. I don't want to go into debt before I move in so that is about as far as I can stretch. I know that this information is way too vague but just wondering if people think im dreaming with this idea.

Everyone else says no, but I am going to throw out a few suggestions here

Firstly, define building the house. Lets throw out an argument here, you complete the house to builders finish, but complete kitchen, one living room, bedroom and bathroom only to move in. There is a world of a difference between finishing the house to the basics above, and finishing the house completely.

Secondly, you may have access to voluntary labour through family etc., be able to do a certain amount of work yourself and you may already have your own site with full planning already.

Thirdly you may be able to source materials at competitive prices.

butler_767

sheff the ref wrote: »

Everyone else says no, but I am going to throw out a few suggestions here

Firstly, define building the house. Lets throw out an argument here, you complete the house to builders finish, but complete kitchen, one living room, bedroom and bathroom only to move in. There is a world of a difference between finishing the house to the basics above, and finishing the house completely.

Secondly, you may have access to voluntary labour through family etc., be able to do a certain amount of work yourself and you may already have your own site with full planning already.

Thirdly you may be able to source materials at competitive prices.

I suppose its true I could move in unfinished as stated, obviously I would prefer to move into a finished house but if I do go down the building route I will keep this in mind. The budget i gave is not includuing buying the land or getting planning permission but everything thereafter

dare2dream

Hi,
We are looking to build an approx 2,400 sq/ft 1.5 story house in the Galway area. We have our site ready to go and are now looking for a recommendation for a builder - has anyone done this recently and can give recommendation?
We recently got the following quote to builders finish which doesn't show a complete breakdown:

Construct house to include:[/B] Raft Foundation. Block work: Lintels and cills Roof (slated) and 1st floor joisting PVC Windows and doors PVC fascia, soffit and gutters Insulation Plumbing: Oil central heating and plumbed for back boiler Electrical: 1st and 2nd fix including wiring for alarm and outside lights Plastering: Nap finish to outside of house Services to include: Connect septic tank, water, ducting for ESB and phone etc. Screed floors and footpaths All work to comply with engineer and building regulations Materials and labour



Total: 136,564.00
VAT: 18,436.00
Total: 155,000

I appreciate any thoughts.

sheff the ref

I think the dream of the turnkey house started to die back around 2008 when the recession set in!!!

Tis back to the 1980s when people sat on stools until they had enough saved to buy a 3 piece suite at a secondhand auction!!!

butler_767 wrote: »

I suppose its true I could move in unfinished as stated, obviously I would prefer to move into a finished house but if I do go down the building route I will keep this in mind. The budget i gave is not includuing buying the land or getting planning permission but everything thereafter

sheff the ref

Price every material individually and then price each step of the work individually

dare2dream wrote: »

Hi,
We are looking to build an approx 2,400 sq/ft 1.5 story house in the Galway area. We have our site ready to go and are now looking for a recommendation for a builder - has anyone done this recently and can give recommendation?
We recently got the following quote to builders finish which doesn't show a complete breakdown:

Construct house to include: Raft Foundation. Block work: Lintels and cills Roof (slated) and 1st floor joisting PVC Windows and doors PVC fascia, soffit and gutters Insulation Plumbing: Oil central heating and plumbed for back boiler Electrical: 1st and 2nd fix including wiring for alarm and outside lights Plastering: Nap finish to outside of house Services to include: Connect septic tank, water, ducting for ESB and phone etc. Screed floors and footpaths All work to comply with engineer and building regulations Materials and labour



Total: 136,564.00
VAT: 18,436.00
Total: 155,000

I appreciate any thoughts.

yoloc

DOCARCH wrote: »

Just to clarify...30 days duration or 500 man hours...and that's the limit/threshold for formally notifing the HSA (i.e. if a project will take more than 30 days or 500 man hours, the HSA must be notified).

Certain projects/works of duration of less than 30 days or 500 man hours will still require the appointment of a PSDP and PSCS...but you do not have to inform the HSA.

What would happen if one did build a house, finished it and didnt take these steps.

kkelliher

yoloc wrote: »

What would happen if one did build a house, finished it and didnt take these steps.

what would happen if you break the law? and you get caught...... I would assume a court appearance and a fine.

kkelliher

sheff the ref wrote: »

Everyone else says no, but I am going to throw out a few suggestions here

Firstly, define building the house. Lets throw out an argument here, you complete the house to builders finish, but complete kitchen, one living room, bedroom and bathroom only to move in. There is a world of a difference between finishing the house to the basics above, and finishing the house completely.

Secondly, you may have access to voluntary labour through family etc., be able to do a certain amount of work yourself and you may already have your own site with full planning already.

Thirdly you may be able to source materials at competitive prices.

This is completely correct and goes to the heart of why there is such a variance in what people quote for the cost of their build. On a site like Boards.ie there are a lot of people with no access to the above and they build on the assumption that they can complete a house for a cost that someone has posted when it clearly does include free labour etc

kkelliher

dare2dream wrote: »

Hi,
We are looking to build an approx 2,400 sq/ft 1.5 story house in the Galway area. We have our site ready to go and are now looking for a recommendation for a builder - has anyone done this recently and can give recommendation?
We recently got the following quote to builders finish which doesn't show a complete breakdown:

Construct house to include: Raft Foundation. Block work: Lintels and cills Roof (slated) and 1st floor joisting PVC Windows and doors PVC fascia, soffit and gutters Insulation Plumbing: Oil central heating and plumbed for back boiler Electrical: 1st and 2nd fix including wiring for alarm and outside lights Plastering: Nap finish to outside of house Services to include: Connect septic tank, water, ducting for ESB and phone etc. Screed floors and footpaths All work to comply with engineer and building regulations Materials and labour



Total: 136,564.00
VAT: 18,436.00
Total: 155,000

I appreciate any thoughts.

You need to get clarity in respect to the following:

• how many electrical points, lights, tv points, phone/cat points, finish is allowed within the cost
• what boiler and spec of boiler is included
• Is the windows a fixed value or is it a pc sum
• what slate is proposed. There is a hugh variance in quality
• what level of insulation is proposed throughout
• quote says connect sewage etc, does this include for the supply and installation of all pipework, the system itself, the manholes, gullies, AJs etc etc

[/LIST]

It does not mention internal joinery (doors, skirts, staircase), any finishes, sanitary ware, kitchen, utility, wardrobes, rooflights etc so there is still a lot of items to add to your list.

yoloc

kkelliher wrote: »

what would happen if you break the law? and you get caught...... I would assume a court appearance and a fine.

Just wondering what would happen. I know plenty people who didnt build by the book like not getting insurance, strating the build as soon as they recieved planning to name a few so i think others will just try and get away without taking tgese steps above. If it has no negative effect on the final cert, people will try and get away with not doing it to save on costs.

BryanF

back on track please the title of this thread is:
Looking for cost of building a house in 2012/2013

yoloc

butler_767 wrote: »

I understand that I dont have nearly enough information but am I just dreaming or could it be possible to build a 3 bedroom bungalow (basic, nothing special) with a budget or 80 to 90k. Literally just had the thought as I was going to buy. I don't want to go into debt before I move in so that is about as far as I can stretch. I know that this information is way too vague but just wondering if people think im dreaming with this idea.

Of course you will, if thats your max budget, well IMO you will make it be enough. I know a few people who built a house for less. Thwy didnt buy new kitchens or bathrooms, bought tiles etc, on sale or of done deal/gumtree and purchased their plumbing heating stuff up north. Bought their eletrical fittings of ebay uk or uk suppliers. I even know one guy who recieved a quote for 13k just for plastering labour yet went on youtube and learned to plaster the house himself. Him, his brother in law and 2 nephews all plastered it and to be fair, done an ok job. If you try and do as much work as possible, youll defo hit your target.

sean8carthy

galwaytt wrote: »

ah yes, Pyrite much ???

Lots of concrete houses never make it to the design life of 60 years too.

As Archtech says, it's the quality of design/detailing and workmanship that makes a good house - components (of concrete, wood or anything else), is but one piece of the puzzle.

what do you build the foundations ond the outer weatherproof layer from. pyrite free concrete ???

sheff the ref

Was with my Engineer last night and he told me that the banks are using a baseline of 80 euro per square foot at the moment for mortgages at the moment for self builds. Even if you have cash etc. and are finishing the house in stages, that they look at the total cost to finish the house, and are reluctant to give loans less than 80 euro a square foot. In other words if you can bargain and can get the house done for less than 80 euro a square foot, you are still more or less forced into applying for a larger mortgage than you need.

I think that for the purposes of this topic, that comparing prices should be on a like for like basis. A plain 4 wall bungalow with a standard roof is obviously going cost less than a bungalow the same size but with extra little bits sticking out here and there and a complicated roof that requires a lot of lead etc.

UrbanFret

sheff the ref wrote: »

Was with my Engineer last night and he told me that the banks are using a baseline of 80 euro per square foot at the moment for mortgages at the moment for self builds. Even if you have cash etc. and are finishing the house in stages, that they look at the total cost to finish the house, and are reluctant to give loans less than 80 euro a square foot. In other words if you can bargain and can get the house done for less than 80 euro a square foot, you are still more or less forced into applying for a larger mortgage than you need.

I think that for the purposes of this topic, that comparing prices should be on a like for like basis. A plain 4 wall bungalow with a standard roof is obviously going cost less than a bungalow the same size but with extra little bits sticking out here and there and a complicated roof that requires a lot of lead etc.

Yes but let's be honest most posters on here want to know how much the basic finish can be done for not the extravagant one!

DOCARCH

sheff the ref wrote: »

....they look at the total cost to finish the house, and are reluctant to give loans less than 80 euro a square foot....

That's because they believe that it is not possible to build a house (in compliance with all the relevant and current regulations) for much less than E80/sq.ft.

In addition, of course they want you to finish the house as, after all, it is theirs when it is finished (until you pay off your mortgage)!

sheff the ref

That may be the case, but it flies in the face of going back to the traditional pre-2000's route of doing what you can afford and then completing the house over a longer term period as you spare a few quid together to do it bit by bit.

DOCARCH wrote: »

That's because they believe that it is not possible to build a house (in compliance with all the relevant and current regulations) for much less than E80/sq.ft.

In addition, of course they want you to finish the house as, after all, it is theirs when it is finished (until you pay off your mortgage)!

sheff the ref

UrbanFret wrote: »

Yes but let's be honest most posters on here want to know how much the basic finish can be done for not the extravagant one!

Depends on what a basic finish means to some people. To some it is builders finish and then a completed Kitchen, one Bedroom, one Living Room and one Bathroom

To others it is a basic but completed finish to all rooms.

They say it costs an average of about €5000 (may not be accurate) to furnish a room. Basically if you leave 2/3 bedrooms and a second living room unfinished, then based on that figure you are spending €20,000 less on the initial build. Granted you will end up spending it eventually, but it is spread over a longer period of time.

DOCARCH

sheff the ref wrote: »

That may be the case, but it flies in the face of going back to the traditional pre-2000's route of doing what you can afford and then completing the house over a longer term period as you spare a few quid together to do it bit by bit.

Agreed, but basically if the bank is going to 'invest' in your house, what ther really want at the end of the process is an 'asset' (they can sell...if needs be).

sheff the ref

Obviously a turnkey house fully landscaped is a greater asset, but that is not to say something less than that isn't an asset in its own right either.

DOCARCH wrote: »

Agreed, but basically if the bank is going to 'invest' in your house, what ther really want at the end of the process is an 'asset' (they can sell...if needs be).

yoloc

Going by the 80e per sqft quote. How much would it take to build a dormer bungalow if its 14x8.5 m on ground floor and 14x5.5m on the first floor dormer.

kieran.

yoloc wrote: »

Going by the 80e per sqft quote. How much would it take to build a dormer bungalow if its 14x8.5 m on ground floor and 14x5.5m on the first floor dormer.

14 x5.5 = 77m2
14 x8.5 = 119m2

Total 196m2 x 10.76 = 2109 sq ft

X 80 per sq ft

€168,720

Simples

kkelliher

kieran. wrote: »

14 x5.5 = 77m2
14 x8.5 = 119m2

Total 196m2 x 10.76 = 2109 sq ft

X 80 per sq ft

€168,720

Simples

And then round up to approx €215k if you actually want to have a realistic budget for a finished house