Anti-women threads in AH

steddyeddy

I didnt know Dudess left because of sexisim. Im sorry to hear that she seemed like a nice person and being the target of sexist posts really isnt on. I was aware of a few threads on the subject of Irish women in particular and tbh Im aware of people who spout similar things in real life.

When someone constantly derides women and especially Irish women (Ie the most likely ones to be on boards) its got to annoying and maybe even hurtful. I would consider myself pretty thick skinned but even I would be offened at some of the stuff said if it were directed at men from an Irish woman. One poster described Irish women as not as good looking as "insert other country here". I cant imagine how that would affect anyone who may be already sensitive about their looks. Also comments like those are a form of bullying imo and shouldnt be tolerated.

I have to confess though that I didnt notice the scale of things and that good posters like dudess left because of it. It wasnt anything as bad as sexisim but basically I nearly stopped posting in one of the science forums because some poster seemed to have a problem with me and the forum itself. It was a case of low level trolling and I think its fair to say it goes on here a lot too.

Ill end by saying that the moderation here is generally quite good. I think low level trolling is very hard to deal with and its not just confined to ah but its a sad state of affairs when people are leaving the site over it. Many posters enjoy boards and it isnt fair that some people ruin that enjoyment for everyone.

Tombi!

Dudess left because of sexism?

Who said that?

Micky Dolenz

Lads, Ladies.

We'll be wrapping this thread up in the morning, before we start to go around in circles. The feedback is more then appreciate and we have taken a lot on board. Rest assured things will change and we are going to be having a general forum feedback thread in the very near future.

PrincessLola

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Dudess left because of sexism?

Who said that?

If that really was the reason she left I'd be very sad. I do remember her saying in a post once that discussing women's issued on boards.ie was like walking on eggshells.

Tombi!

PrincessLola wrote: »

If that really was the reason she left I'd be very sad. I do remember her saying in a post once that discussing women's issued on boards.ie was like walking on eggshells.

Yeah I think that's one of the last ones she made.

I honestly hope she didn't leave because of it. I loved watching her argue, it was always interesting to have her post.

Have to admit if that was the reason I'm pretty sickened since she was probably one of the more even tempered posters I've seen

VEN

Daveysil15 wrote: »

If a woman said she didn't like Irish men, I'm not going to try and change her mind. I'd just let her be.

you'd have some job trying to change it, digs in heels

Abi

PrincessLola wrote: »

If that really was the reason she left I'd be very sad. I do remember her saying in a post once that discussing women's issued on boards.ie was like walking on eggshells.

It isn't by a long shot.

Lyaiera

PrincessLola wrote: »

If that really was the reason she left I'd be very sad. I do remember her saying in a post once that discussing women's issued on boards.ie was like walking on eggshells.

I'm not too sure Dudess ever walked on eggshells. More like pulled on her stompy Docs, trampled the eggshells and gave that fecking rooster a kick up the behind.*


*All entirely justifiably by the way.

Gummy Panda

All fairness we shouldn't be speculating about why a poster closed their account. If they wanted us to know they would have told us.

Tombi!

Abi wrote: »

It isn't by a long shot.

That's not why she left or did you mean the eggshells comment?

VEN

The King of Moo wrote: »

I think it's something people imagine, or at least imagine is much more common than it is.

urban myth you think?

The King of Moo

VEN wrote: »

urban myth you think?

To an extent. I'm sure it's been uttered seriously on a tiny number of occasions, and it's been uttered in a clearly joking manner on more occasions.

I think it gets cited as an example of double standards far too often, in proportion to how often women actually say it while also meaning it.

Millicent

The King of Moo wrote: »

To an extent. I'm sure it's been uttered seriously on a tiny number of occasions, and it's been uttered in a clearly joking manner on more occasions.

I think it gets cited as an example of double standards far too often, in proportion to how often women actually say it while also meaning it.

I know the last time I heard a friend of mine say that, we were 16 and heavily influenced by popular culture. With a bit more cop on and maturity under our belts, I have never heard a friend say that since or anyway to stand for it. Or, for that matter, any woman I can think of offhand.

VEN

blacklilly wrote: »

No one likes rejection, I would be very shy when it comes to chatting up guys whereas the majority of my friends have no problem doing it. Its not that I've ever been rejected but just find it difficult putting myself out there. It's probably the reason I'm single.
If a guy chatted me up and I didn't find him attractive I'd never ever be rude to him. I see lots of women being blatantly rude to some guys, including some of my friends and it really annoys me!

i understand, but i meant the actual 'going in for the kill' bit, actually asking the person out, not the chatting up part.

Abi

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

That's not why she left or did you mean the eggshells comment?

As a whole, absolutely not. If you'd have been around long enough you'd know she wouldn't just leave on a whim.

Speculation is frowned upon in AH Brutal, so best reel it in.

Tombi!

Abi wrote: »

As a whole, absolutely not. If you'd have been around long enough you'd know she wouldn't just leave on a whim.

Speculation is frowned upon in AH Brutal, so best reel it in.

I was just curious It was kinda weird how she left that would be why I was curious but yes I suppose this is pushing the envolope abit after we got told not to.

Micky Dolenz

Post deleted, speculation only derails.

I'll repeat this earlier warning for posters who may have missed it.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

MOD

The speculation of who posters were or are end here.

If you have a problem with a post or poster, report it.

Fair warning.

efb

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Someone give me an update.

Have we agreed to get along and have cake?

Someone left the cake out in the rain...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73v1RqRPKGk

donfers

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Lads, Ladies.

We'll be wrapping this thread up in the morning, before we start to go around in circles. The feedback is more then appreciate and we have taken a lot on board. Rest assured things will change and we are going to be having a general forum feedback thread in the very near future.

just decide what you want the forum to be

the common error here is to focus on the complaints, what usually happens is you'll be strict on the women gags for a few months and then ease up

i predict whatever "solution" arrived at will please nobody and be a kind of halfway house thing where then general tone of irreverence maintained here except when it comes to threads about women which will be policed in a strongarm fashion out of kilter with the rest of the forum - this is inconsistent and panders to the complainants rather than solving the core issue

now while the complainants may well have a point, the solution should not be enforced just to please them, any solution should take into account what you want for the forum as a whole

the focus needs to be on what is acceptable in this forum and why people like to come here, the focus should not solely be on what is acceptable to women in this forum and why women like to come here (or those who are offended by women-related generalisations)

having said all that i do think the complainants have a point here but then again so would christians if they complained here or sinn fein supporters or immigrants or the overweight or whoever it may be

so as i said i cannot forsee any consistent solution unless you radically change the forum and what it's all about - i don't think that will happen so it will be, as i said, irreverent on the whole, except for threads about Irish women or women in general - if the users and mods are happy with that so be it

Sauve

In fairness Donfers that's what's happening here.
From what I can see, the mods in this thread are listening to what's being said and taking all opinions on board.
It's been said that they'll discuss it in the mod forum and see what can be done, if anything, so leave them at it.
It's up to them to decide whether to enforce new rules or not. Based on their experience dealing with this forum, they're the best ones to make that judgement.
If nothing is done, there'll be a reason for that too.

Either that or they're all sitting out the back eating jaffa cakes and drinking whiskey.

Millicent

donfers wrote: »

now while the complainants may well have a point, the solution should not be enforced just to please them, any solution should take into account what you want for the forum as a whole

the focus needs to be on what is acceptable in this forum and why people like to come here, the focus should not solely be on what is acceptable to women in this forum and why women like to come here (or those who are offended by women-related generalisations)

So you're saying women should put up and shut up, basically? We should pander to those doing the offending and feck how the offended feel about it, even if they are regular, worthwhile contributors? Can you not see how that is a bit arseways?

Chips Lovell

donfers wrote: »

now while the complainants may well have a point, the solution should not be enforced just to please them, any solution should take into account what you want for the forum as a whole

Actually I think any solution should be just to suit them. If one identifiable group of people are being bullied, it shouldn't matter what the others think about it. The logic of what you're saying is that if the majority think woman bashing is alright, then it should be let continue.

Sauve

There still has to be a balance maintained though.
No point doing what one group want if the other is going to feel marginalised or upset by it.
There should be a happy medium here.

VEN

Sauve wrote: »

There still has to be a balance maintained though.
No point doing what one group want if the other is going to feel marginalised or upset by it.
There should be a happy medium here.

the solution i'd imagine would be 'no gender bashing'

Reality_Check1

So the charter might be changed because of a bit of lad banter. . . .

First we gave them the vote but I did not speak out as I do not vote

Then they got equal pay but I did not speak out as I do not work

Then they took our golfing clubs but I did not speak out as I do not play golf

Now they come for After hours who is left to speak for me...

Sauve

VEN wrote: »

the solution i'd imagine would be 'no gender bashing'

Well yeah, but without taking the harmless jokes out of it either.
If people would only cop on and learn to read where the line is, there'd be no need for this thread in the first place.

Millicent

VEN wrote: »

the solution i'd imagine would be 'no gender bashing'

I like that! Vote 2 for that.

Reality_Check1

VEN wrote: »

the solution i'd imagine would be 'no gender bashing'

Or we could conclude that its obviously only a bit of fun and everyone should get over it

*grabs man beer and laughs at pasty Irish ladies :cool:

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

So the charter might be changed because of a bit of lad banter. . . .

First we gave them the vote but I did not speak out as I do not vote

Then they got equal pay but I did not speak out as I do not work

Then they took our golfing clubs but I did not speak out as I do not play golf

Now they come for After hours who is left to speak for me...

Yes, you're very oppressed because you can't say ****ty things about women. You're aware that quote is about the complicity of ordinary bystanders who did nothing in the Nazi era. But carry on comparing asking lads to tone down the sexism to being a victim of the Holocaust. Jesus wept.

Tombi!

Millicent wrote: »

Yes, you're very oppressed because you can't say ****ty things about women.

I thought (I hope now) he was making a joke...

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Or we could conclude that its obviously only a bit of fun and everyone should get over it

*grabs man beer and laughs at pasty Irish ladies :cool:

If you could manage to be original, it might be funny (ooh, Irish women are pasty. Oh no wait, they wear too much fake tan, oh wait, they're all bitches anyway, let's get ourselves some foreign women). Parroting the same lame shit, that wasn't funny the first time, ain't funny.

Millicent

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I thought (I hope now) he was making a joke...

"So the charter might be changed because of a bit of lad banter. . . ." was not. The "banter" point has been addressed dozens of times now. Repeating that point without having read the thread doesn't imply joking.

Reality_Check1

Millicent wrote: »

Yes, you're very oppressed because you can't say ****ty things about women. You're aware that quote is about the complicity of ordinary bystanders who did nothing in the Nazi era. But carry on comparing asking lads to tone down the sexism to being a victim of the Holocaust. Jesus wept.

I think your over reaction to a post that is obviously tongue in cheek to anyone with an iota of common sense speaks volumes. Its actually a reflection of this entire thread.

FWIW (being serious for a moment) I think any outlandish sexism used as trolling or being malicious in any way should be dealt with harshly. Apart from that common sense should prevail and people should get over themselves

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

I think your over reaction to a post that is obviously tongue in cheek to anyone with an iota of common sense speaks volumes. Its actually a reflection of this entire thread.

FWIW (being serious for a moment) I think any outlandish sexism used as trolling or being malicious in any way should be dealt with harshly. Apart from that common sense should prevail and people should get over themselves

You waded into a thread and lamented the loss of "lad's banter" and are now telling people to "get over themselves" while also implying that I have no common sense... Yeah, I'm at fault.

The thread was actually progressing nicely till you came in and ignored every point made in the thread.

Ficheall

Millicent wrote: »

Yes, you're very oppressed because you can't say ****ty things about women. You're aware that quote is about the complicity of ordinary bystanders who did nothing in the Nazi era. But carry on comparing asking lads to tone down the sexism to being a victim of the Holocaust. Jesus wept.

Have we had a 50 page thread on the mistreatment of the Holocaust victims, as a matter of interest?

Sauve

Ficheall wrote: »

Have we had a 50 page thread on the mistreatment of the Holocaust victims, as a matter of interest?

What has that got to do with anything?

Millicent

Ficheall wrote: »

Have we had a 50 page thread on the mistreatment of the Holocaust victims, as a matter of interest?

No... I'm failing to grasp the point you're making here but I'm sure you'll tell me.

VEN

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Or we could conclude that its obviously only a bit of fun and everyone should get over it

*grabs man beer and laughs at pasty Irish ladies :cool:

tasty pasty or orange delight

Reality_Check1

Millicent wrote: »

You waded into a thread and lamented the loss of "lad's banter" and are now telling people to "get over themselves" while also implying that I have no common sense... Yeah, I'm at fault.

The thread was actually progressing nicely till you came in and ignored every point made in the thread.

I read the first 5 pages and skipped to the last one as I felt I had read enough and was making a light hearted joke of the situation. I don't know why you're so angry? Have the lines been blurred so much between having a laugh and being blatantly sexist that now everyone is walking on eggshells?

FWIW I read After hours for what it is. IMO if new rules were brought in you would see a large % of the populace migrating to another forum and AH would suffer as a result. Just imo of course

Chips Lovell

"It's everyone else's problem that I don't have the cop on to realise now is not the time for a joke like that. The women should get over themselves."

VEN

Millicent wrote: »

Irish women are pasty

i thought the lads were the pasty ones not fair

Sauve

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

I think your over reaction to a post that is obviously tongue in cheek to anyone with an iota of common sense speaks volumes. Its actually a reflection of this entire thread.

That's all good and well in AH proper, but this is a discussion and feedback thread. A lot of people are here to get a point across, so Millicents' 'over-reaction' as you put it is perfectly valid in this instance.
Take your 'tongue-in-cheek' comments back out to the rest of AH please and grow up ffs.

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

I read the first 5 pages and skipped to the last one as I felt I had read enough and was making a light hearted joke of the situation. I don't know why you're so angry? Have the lines been blurred so much between having a laugh and being blatantly sexist that now everyone is walking on eggshells?

FWIW I read After hours for what it is. IMO if new rules were brought in you would see a large % of the populace migrating to another forum and AH would suffer as a result. Just imo of course

Fair enough, if I misread you, I apologise for being annoyed. That said, etiquette dictates reading all posts in a thread so as not to needlessly irritate posters who have to reiterate previously made points.

No one has to walk on eggshells. There is great craic to be had, even on gendered topics in AH. What's being asked for is a bit of respect. It's not a huge thing to ask for. If people really are that hell bent on offending or irritating other posters, whether they mean to or not, is it really such a big loss if those posters migrate to other forums if new rules were to come in? IMO, it's no great loss.

Millicent

VEN wrote: »

i thought the lads were the pasty ones not fair

In fairness, ain't none of us look too good in a pair of shorts in the first week of June.

Sauve

Millicent wrote: »

In fairness, ain't none of us look too good in a pair of shorts in the first week of June.

Speak for yourself. :mad:
My 'hailstone tan' from february is still etched into my pasty thighs :cool:

Ficheall

Sauve wrote: »

That's all good and well in AH proper, but this is a discussion and feedback thread. A lot of people are here to get a point across, so Millicents' 'over-reaction' as you put it is perfectly valid in this instance.
Take your 'tongue-in-cheek' comments back out to the rest of AH please and grow up ffs.

That's not particularly fair, is it? This is AH. It's not in "Feedback". Surely the rules which apply to one AH thread should apply to them all? Unless there's a mod note somewhere in one of the posts that I've missed...

Sauve

Ficheall wrote: »

That's not particularly fair, is it? This is AH. It's not in "Feedback". Surely the rules which apply to one AH thread should apply to them all? Unless there's a mod note somewhere in one of the posts that I've missed...

AAAAHHHHHHH
I'm goin fcekin bald here!!!
Half of ye would drive anyone to drink, do ye know that :pac:

Millicent

Sauve wrote: »

Speak for yourself. :mad:
My 'hailstone tan' from february is still etched into my pasty thighs :cool:

I'm almost sure I blinded someone with my legs. The white glow from them really brightens up a cold evening. Great way to warm a room when people are sitting around for a chat (provided they all wear sunglasses, of course).

Ficheall

Millicent wrote: »

Fair enough, if I misread you, I apologise for being annoyed. That said, etiquette dictates reading all posts in a thread so as not to needlessly irritate posters who have to reiterate previously made points.

Netiquette may well dictate such in-depth research, but this thread devolved into nothing but continuous reiteration from all three* sides after at most five pages. I've only read about forty of the pages though, so it's possible that I missed something vital somewhere.



*approximately?

Reality_Check1

I'm going to look back through the thread now but in case I miss something has the point been made that we should also ban threads making fun of single mothers, people on the dole and gingers?

I think I'll start a thread saying I dont think its fair that so many threads get started slating gingers

sound ridiculous?

Now look at this thread

I actually will think I'll start a thread about not slagging gingers