Anti-women threads in AH

Tombi!

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

well thats a bad example because people who say that generally wouldnt be sitting in the pub to begin with.

But the same people do waffle on again and again with sporting, religious and political views that I dont agree with and I find its a much better experience if I just block them out as best I can.

Trying to force my own views on them or telling them to get out would serve no purpose because I am sure there are plenty of people in the pub that agree with them

Okay well what about Milli's post? Or what if, the few drunken idiots where driving away... twice, three times as many customers as there are idiots in the place

Lyaiera

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Like I said above I still think blocking people is the answer. Some women might not be offended by what goes on (I know Im on dangerously thin ice here) but if thats the case then it should be there choice what to read and what is blocked. The people who are offended can simply block who they wish and they will have a better experience. I dont think it is feasible or your responsibility to make the thread viewer friendly for everyone. Like was mentioned already some people could have exceptions to every thread that gets posted here

Also I do take on board what you say but I dont have to agree with it. That doesnt make you a lesbian nor does it make me someone who would laugh at you for rejecting my opinions

Can't I just call you tosser? Why should your opinion get to be out there without my refutation? I should just ignore you?

Sorry, no. But my opinion is correct. Your opinion isn't.

I don't like this idea of "Well if you're offended then don't listen." You're not some gospel preaching minister, and I'm not in your church. That means you#re fair game. That means I can take my intellectual 12 bore shotgun down on you and make you into tasty game.

Because you are a game. Nothing more and nothing less. As I've said over and over, you're just someone to played with. Someone who doesn't even make me think! How awful is that? You don't make me question anything. You can show off in front of your gallery of friends and I still know I'm coming out the winner. I know there's going to be one person in all your brohoard thinking, "Actually, Reality_Check has it wrong."

And I'm going to find a new friend who tells me how great I am and how wrong he was for thinking the way he did. And I'm going to have a brosef stepping forward to not put up the idea that, "I should just ignore all the ignorance in the world."

donfers

Millicent wrote: »

So you're saying women should put up and shut up, basically? We should pander to those doing the offending and feck how the offended feel about it, even if they are regular, worthwhile contributors? Can you not see how that is a bit arseways?

No I didn't say that

My point is if AH turns into "make sure you don't insult the women ladz but otherwise carry on regardless" then although no doubt you will be satisfied the key issue of borderline humour/abuse is only dealt with for one rather vocal (and justifiably so) demographic

we should not solve issues based on who shouts the loudest, we should solve issues based on if it's the right thing to do and apply standards consistently across the board

that's all i am saying - i hope you understand the point i am trying to make

Lyaiera

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

All this pub talk has made me thirsty.

ah go on so, I'll have a beer

Been boozing it up for hours now. Not even half a glass of vino left. Already put the feelers out for a party. No joy. I'm even smoking my last cigarette. I think I've been relegated to stealing the last packet of crisps from my roommate (he's away and I'll replace them tomorrow.)

Sad days in Lyaieraville.

Tombi!

donfers wrote: »

No I didn't say that

My point is if AH turns into "make sure you don't insult the women ladz but otherwise carry on regardless" then although no doubt you will be satisfied the key issue of borderline humour/abuse is only dealt with for one rather vocal (and justifiably so) demographic

we should not solve issues based on who shouts the loudest, we should solve issues based on if it's the right thing to do and apply standards consistently across the board

that's all i am saying - i hope you understand the point i am trying to make

Replace all that with "don't be a fúcking muppet to men/women and slander them the same way" and that is what we want.

Reality_Check1

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

If people here are being dicks it has to be stopped.

If they are being dicks agreed but to what % of the forum. Are complaints from 5% of the forum enough to get a person banned even if the other 95% enjoy their posts

Lyaiera wrote: »

Can't I just call you tosser? Why should your opinion get to be out there without my refutation? I should just ignore you?

Sorry, no. But my opinion is correct. Your opinion isn't.

I don't like this idea of "Well if you're offended then don't listen." You're not some gospel preaching minister, and I'm not in your church. That means you#re fair game. That means I can take my intellectual 12 bore shotgun down on you and make you into tasty game.

Because you are a game. Nothing more and nothing less. As I've said over and over, you're just someone to played with. Someone who doesn't even make me think! How awful is that? You don't make me question anything. You can show off in front of your gallery of friends and I still know I'm coming out the winner. I know there's going to be one person in all your brohoard thinking, "Actually, Reality_Check has it wrong."

And I'm going to find a new friend who tells me how great I am and how wrong he was for thinking the way he did. And I'm going to have a brosef stepping forward to not put up the idea that, "I should just ignore all the ignorance in the world."

not sure what film that is or if you are even disagreeing with me

Millicent

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Replace all that with "don't be a fúcking muppet to men/women and slander them the same way" and that is what we want.

What he said, Donfers!

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

If they are being dicks agreed but to what % of the forum. Are complaints from 5% of the forum enough to get a person banned even if the other 95% enjoy their posts

We're not 5 per cent of the forum. Not by a long shot.

Tombi!

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

If they are being dicks agreed but to what % of the forum. Are complaints from 5% of the forum enough to get a person banned even if the other 95% enjoy their posts

Right. This is what got me rolling: one of the posters got upset because of the "is my roomate a slag or a prozzy" (orwhatever it was). I never thought of the word slag only applying to women since it does.

Then it got me thinking, there really are a bit too many offensive stuff towards women here.

It's not a case of "ban him/her". It's a case of "ban him/her for constantly being offensive".

strobe

Lyaiera wrote: »

Can't I just call you tosser? Why should your opinion get to be out there without my refutation? I should just ignore you?

Sorry, no. But my opinion is correct. Your opinion isn't.

I don't like this idea of "Well if you're offended then don't listen." You're not some gospel preaching minister, and I'm not in your church. That means you#re fair game. That means I can take my intellectual 12 bore shotgun down on you and make you into tasty game.

Because you are a game. Nothing more and nothing less. As I've said over and over, you're just someone to played with. Someone who doesn't even make me think! How awful is that? You don't make me question anything. You can show off in front of your gallery of friends and I still know I'm coming out the winner. I know there's going to be one person in all your brohoard thinking, "Actually, Reality_Check has it wrong."

And I'm going to find a new friend who tells me how great I am and how wrong he was for thinking the way he did. And I'm going to have a brosef stepping forward to not put up the idea that, "I should just ignore all the ignorance in the world."

Jesus, chill. The thread was moving along just fine (for the most part) without the silly hystrionics and personal sniping.

Micky Dolenz

Millicent wrote: »

I'll have a Corona and lime if you're offering.

Pfft, high maintenance or wha?

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I'd appreciate a triple southern comfort and a dash of red please

See above

Tombi!

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Pfft, high maintenance or wha?



See above

Alright. I get it. You're not in the mood.

Just give me the bottle, I'll have the fully one to myself please

Reality_Check1

Millicent wrote: »

Or "All the women that frequent this pub are fucking ugly/man hating/lesbians/feminazis/bitches"?

Because that's what all this equates to. Would you allow those customers to run off your female customers or would you say, "Hey. Some of those women are my best customers. I don't want them to feel unwelcome here."

Because that is essentially what this thread boils down to.

unfortunately thats life. People that dont get on sit at opposite ends of the bar - certain things get over heard but for the vast majority they ignore each other. If something blatantly bad was said then of course Id step in but if the bar is big enough for everyone so is AH.

Just ignore each other and take solace in the fact if anything blatantly crosses the line it will be taken care of

Smidge

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Pfft, high maintenance or wha?



See above

You buying Mickey????

I'll have a vodka/7up please!!!




Or is this sexist

Lyaiera

strobe wrote: »

Jesus, chill. The thread was moving along just fine (for the most part) without the silly hystrionics and personal sniping.

It was?

Were we moving towards accord?

Millicent

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Pfft, high maintenance or wha?

It's my summer drink. Feckin' tasty it is too. I drink like twice a year so feel honoured I'm letting you get me one. Chop chop!

Lyaiera

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Just ignore each other and take solace in the fact if anything blatantly crosses the line it will be taken care of

Sexism does blatantly cross the line.

Tombi!

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

unfortunately thats life. People that dont get on sit at opposite ends of the bar - certain things get over heard but for the vast majority they ignore each other. If something blatantly bad was said then of course Id step in but if the bar is big enough for everyone so is AH.

Just ignore each other and take solace in the fact if anything blatantly crosses the line it will be taken care of

A forum isn't life.

Look, I get where you're coming from but we still have rules here. Now, while I do hate any forum that have jackasses as mods, I don't think this place is like this. AH lets a lot of things slide. But again, AH isn't private, it's fully public. So the rules do need to be enforced for the entire population that visits here.

Reality_Check1

Millicent wrote: »

We're not 5 per cent of the forum. Not by a long shot.

30% according to the poll but you can't be sure every women here will take offense. maybe 5% is a bit low but not by much

Reality_Check1

Lyaiera wrote: »

Sexism does blatantly cross the line.

to you yes but for many others it wouldnt

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

unfortunately thats life. People that dont get on sit at opposite ends of the bar - certain things get over heard but for the vast majority they ignore each other. If something blatantly bad was said then of course Id step in but if the bar is big enough for everyone so is AH.

Just ignore each other and take solace in the fact if anything blatantly crosses the line it will be taken care of

I refuse to believe that scenario. I've been to pubs where men are allowed to lech on women or where they get hostile/suspicious if a woman comes in. They're not good pubs and women don't go to them. Besides, ignoring things doesn't make them better.

Fight_Night

Lyaiera wrote: »

Can't I just call you tosser? Why should your opinion get to be out there without my refutation? I should just ignore you?

Sorry, no. But my opinion is correct. Your opinion isn't.

I don't like this idea of "Well if you're offended then don't listen." You're not some gospel preaching minister, and I'm not in your church. That means you#re fair game. That means I can take my intellectual 12 bore shotgun down on you and make you into tasty game.

Because you are a game. Nothing more and nothing less. As I've said over and over, you're just someone to played with. Someone who doesn't even make me think! How awful is that? You don't make me question anything. You can show off in front of your gallery of friends and I still know I'm coming out the winner. I know there's going to be one person in all your brohoard thinking, "Actually, Reality_Check has it wrong."

And I'm going to find a new friend who tells me how great I am and how wrong he was for thinking the way he did. And I'm going to have a brosef stepping forward to not put up the idea that, "I should just ignore all the ignorance in the world."

Jaysus.

Tombi!

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

30% according to the poll but you can't be sure every women here will take offense. maybe 5% is a bit low but not by much

Oh you meant AH.

You can bet not everyone voted in that poll.

Not to mention everyone vists boards does not also visit here and answer polls

mackg

I hope that people actually reporting posts is the first step taken to tackle this problem before anything else is done. I'd love to know how many posts actually get reported in relation to these complaints. I remember the topic about the guy going taking e for the first time and between 5 and 10 posters complained on thread about it not being locked and KeithM89 posted that there was not a single reported post from the whole thread when he did finally lock it.

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

30% according to the poll but you can't be sure every women here will take offense. maybe 5% is a bit low but not by much

What about all the women who have left or don't post much here any more? I've been here two years. I could list a load for you.

Besides, as of this post, the OP on this has 188 thanks. That's not just 5 per cent.

Tombi!

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

to you yes but for many others it wouldnt

Okay if it they are fine with being sexist: f**k them and tell them to get lost.

I'm serious. If you can't be respectful, you don't belong on boards (or the majority of forums).

strobe

Lyaiera wrote: »

It was?

Were we moving towards accord?

Does any thread on anything ever? The discussion was progressing, people were outlining their views, often in a clear, level headed, reasonable fashion, Mods were giving input, it was, as I said, for the most part moving along fine.

You taking your *...sigh* '12 gauge intellectual shotgun' out and waving it at individuals, is hardly improving things... accord wise.

mackg

Millicent wrote: »

I refuse to believe that scenario. I've been to pubs where men are allowed to lech on women or where they get hostile/suspicious if a woman comes in. They're not good pubs and women don't go to them. Besides, ignoring things doesn't make them better.

My gonorrhoea begs to differ

*oh wait*

Reality_Check1

Millicent wrote: »

What about all the women who have left or don't post much here any more? I've been here two years. I could list a load for you.

Besides, as of this post, the OP on this has 188 thanks. That's not just 5 per cent.

As has been stated previously not everyone takes polls so not everyone thanks posts using thanks as a yard stick would be a poor estimate. I cant comment on who has left - Im sure many if not more have joined

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Okay if it they are fine with being sexist: f**k them and tell them to get lost.

I'm serious. If you can't be respectful, you don't belong on boards (or the majority of forums).

I have no idea what your beliefs are but Im sure people who are religious would have the same opinion towards you if you posted atheist stuff ditto sinn fein with the anti sinn fein stuff that gets posted etc etc

point is that while you feel strongly about sexism many more don't.

Millicent

mackg wrote: »

My gonorrhoea begs to differ

*oh wait*

It burns when you pee, doesn't it?

Tombi!

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

I have no idea what your beliefs are but Im sure people who are religious would have the same opinion towards you if you posted atheist stuff ditto sinn fein with the anti sinn fein stuff that gets posted etc etc

point is that while you feel strongly about sexism many more don't.

But sexism isn't a "good" thing.
Religion, politics, whatever is all "good". Just like they can be "bad".

Putting down a gender, regardless of male/female has never (and never will) have any kind of advantage.

mackg

Millicent wrote: »

What about all the women who have left or don't post much here any more? I've been here two years. I could list a load for you.

Besides, as of this post, the OP on this has 188 thanks. That's not just 5 per cent.

Not really disagreeing with anything you're saying other than this but what has that got to do with anything? I'm sure the forum has a massive turnover of posters male and female, a lot who leave because they don't like the forum for a variety of reasons.

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

As has been stated previously not everyone takes polls so not everyone thanks posts using thanks as a yard stick would be a poor estimate. I cant comment on who has left - Im sure many if not more have joined

You seem to be stuck to the argument that it's banter, it's only a small minority who are offended, if you don't like it, ignore it. These are the exact approaches many have had a problem with on this thread. The onus isn't on us to change our behaviour; the onus should be on those acting the asshole to change theirs. Would you not agree?

mackg

Millicent wrote: »

It burns when you pee, doesn't it?

yup I make this face :eek:

And you know who's fault it is I have it don't you?

Millicent

mackg wrote: »

Not really disagreeing with anything you're saying other than this but what has that got to do with anything? I'm sure the forum has a massive turnover of posters male and female, a lot who leave because they don't like the forum for a variety of reasons.

I meant posters who had specifically stopped posting/reduced posting amounts because of this issue. If people leave because of it, it's an issue that needs to be addressed. I think it's worrying that some (this isn't directed at you, btw) would rather keep people who act the dick to others than those who have been long-time, decent, respectful and engaging posters.

donfers

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Actually I think any solution should be just to suit them. If one identifiable group of people are being bullied, it shouldn't matter what the others think about it. The logic of what you're saying is that if the majority think woman bashing is alright, then it should be let continue.

it's a noble aspiration but ultimately your supposition falls down in many areas

1. many groups are the butt of jokes on AH not just women

2. it's highly questionable if "bullied" is the right word to use in this context

3. of course it matters what others think, particularly if some of these others belong to the so-called "bullied" group itself i.e. many women still actively post in AH and don't feel bullied/abused and enjoy the forum - how do you account for these women?

4. Your summary of what I said is wholly incorrect, my point is not at all even close to "if the majority think woman bashing is alright, then it should be let continue." - please read my posts again and I humbly apologise if on rereading then you continue to misinterpret them

5. A solution should of course take into account the complaints here and many registered in the past from users who don't wish tolerate what they perceive as mockery of women - however a solution should not be just to suit them as you put it. Why? Let's examine the wider issues here, the bigger picture if you will.

It's a question of mockery/abuse v irreverence/banter and where the lines are drawn with regard to what is acceptable and unacceptable - it's not only a question of if women are offended or not.

What you seem to be suggesting (and forgive me for putting words in your mouth my friend) the forum should modify itself to do away with mockery aimed at women but mockery aimed at other groups is not a problem. Mockery is either right or wrong and should be dealt with consistently.

Basically you are making the classic reactionary error unfortunately of dealing with the immediate symptom rather than the underlying cause

Millicent

mackg wrote: »

yup I make this face :eek:

And you know who's fault it is I have it don't you?

Micky Dolenz's? Jesus, the cheekiest of the Monkees strikes again. :mad:

Tombi!

donfers nobody has much of a problem with a bit of joking around, at all.

The problem is that some posters (guys obviously) really do seem to have an issue with women.

Ideally if the rules are enforced harsher, it will deal with slandering males too.

Reality_Check1

Millicent wrote: »

You seem to be stuck to the argument that it's banter, it's only a small minority who are offended, if you don't like it, ignore it. These are the exact approaches many have had a problem with on this thread. The onus isn't on us to change our behaviour; the onus should be on those acting the asshole to change theirs. Would you not agree?

I actually do agree but what constitutes an asshole is subjective. AH is huge I'd imagine if this is the road we go down it will be hard to find a post that 20 people don't report where will we go from there?

Micky Dolenz

mishkalucy wrote: »

You buying Mickey????

I'll have a vodka/7up please!!!




Or is this sexist

Depends, Dash of 7up or a bottle?

Millicent

donfers wrote: »

What you seem to be suggesting (and forgive me for putting words in your mouth my friend) the forum should modify itself to do away with mockery aimed at women but mockery aimed at other groups is not a problem. Mockery is either right or wrong and should be dealt with consistently.

As has been said time and time again, the problem is not with "banter". It's with general dickishness and women-bashing in general. If you and your gender were called fat, ugly, sluts, prudes, feminazis, or gold-diggers on a regular basis, you would be pretty annoyed too.

And what other groups get mocked the same way as women do here? There are none because it's not acceptable.

Tombi!

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

I actually do agree but what constitutes an asshole is subjective. AH is huge I'd imagine if this is the road we go down it will be hard to find a post that 20 people don't report where will we go from there?

But it's a clearcut case: we want sexist posters to stop. We don't care if it's towards males or females. We don't care if it's just playing around (Because that can be fine).

But when people are using joking around as a means to slander a gender, they're jackasses and need to be dealt with.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Depends, Dash of 7up or a bottle?

She's a woman so clearly the bottle (and she'll flirt with you to get it for free)

Millicent wrote: »

If you and your gender were called feminazis on a regular basis, you would be pretty annoyed too.

You're damn right I would! I'm a man, just call me a regluar old nazi thank you very much

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

I actually do agree but what constitutes an asshole is subjective. AH is huge I'd imagine if this is the road we go down it will be hard to find a post that 20 people don't report where will we go from there?

What constitutes being an asshole is not all that subjective though. It's "Am I respecting people?" and "Am I out to cause offence/am I tarring a whole group with a big brush/am I being a bit of a dick?" It's quite easy to define, IMO.

mackg

Millicent wrote: »

I meant posters who had specifically stopped posting/reduced posting amounts because of this issue. If people leave because of it, it's an issue that needs to be addressed. I think it's worrying that some (this isn't directed at you, btw) would rather keep people who act the dick to others than those who have been long-time, decent, respectful and engaging posters.

How many are we talking roughly? I hate to see posters leave.

Millicent wrote: »

Micky Dolenz's? Jesus, the cheekiest of the Monkees strikes again. :mad:

Never eat a green banana *shudder*, no but seriously I blame Irish women!

:pac:

Reality_Check1

Millicent wrote: »

What constitutes being an asshole is not all that subjective though. It's "Am I respecting people?" and "Am I out to cause offence/am I tarring a whole group with a big brush/am I being a bit of a dick?" It's quite easy to define, IMO.

A lad has a one night stand with a girl promises her he will call but never does.

Some would consider this being a dick and disrespectful other wouldnt.

Just depends on your viewpoint

Tombi!

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

A lad has a one night stand with a girl promises her he will call but never does.

Some would consider this being a dick and disrespectful other wouldnt.

Just depends on your viewpoint

That won't happen in AH though.

Here's what it comes down to: I want to post something, will it offend too many people and cause a problem? No? Go ahead and post it.

donfers

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

donfers nobody has much of a problem with a bit of joking around, at all.

The problem is that some posters (guys obviously) really do seem to have an issue with women.

Ideally if the rules are enforced harsher, it will deal with slandering males too.

yes for the people who have a genuine problem with the opposite sex or some ethnic group or race or nationality then i believe the most outlandish stuff is dealt with

however the problems lie in the case where one woman's banter is another woman's dickishness (am referencing mockery of women here as that is the issue being discussed) so how do we form a consensus on where the line should be drawn not just for mockery of women but mockery in general.

I apologise in advance but many of the complaints on here seem rather vague, circular and near-sighted in nature (however justifiable they may be)

instead of having the same old arguments about comments you disapprove of, please instead let us focus on what solutions you would like to see implemented to deal with these and how you would seek to have a consistent line of justice applied for all mockery offenses

thank you everybody

Millicent

mackg wrote: »

How many are we talking roughly? I hate to see posters leave.

I could think of a dozen regulars offhand, and another dozen, I'd guess, if I put more thought into it. You even have people like myself and Abi saying it and we've both been around a long time on AH.

I recall Dudess being followed from thread to thread by certain assholes who were annoyed she was some uppity female.

mackg wrote: »

Never eat a green banana *shudder*, no but seriously I blame Irish women!

:pac:

We're riddled, I tell ye, riddled. Better off with some one from Uzbekistan or wherever the AH consensus says the better looking women are these days. :pac:

Reality_Check1

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

That won't happen in AH though.

Here's what it comes down to: I want to post something, will it offend too many people and cause a problem? No? Go ahead and post it.

"Medical card holders are bleeding the health system and should pay a nominal fee when visiting a GP"

could be a good discussion but I'd imagine under the rules above it wouldnt fly

Millicent

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

A lad has a one night stand with a girl promises her he will call but never does.

Some would consider this being a dick and disrespectful other wouldnt.

Just depends on your viewpoint

I'm fairly sure he's a bit of a dick in that he consciously lied to someone. No?