Anti-women threads in AH

Tombi!

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I don't see many men being disturbed enough by this 'undercurrent' to report posts, yes it seems like a measure that would be put in place just for women. But seeing as I have no idea what the 'undercurrent' is I can only imagine.

Well you're wrong. I've reported something I thought was in appropiate in AH and was (IMO) sexist.

But hey, you learned f**k all or else you're trying to troll.

If you bothered to actually read the thread you'd have known that we're trying to get generalization sexism banned.

Women don't matter. Men don't matter. Genders matter as a whole. Sexism affects both genders. Neither is going to be given special treatment.

g'em

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I can guess what your answer is going to be, which is that the undercurrent is anything that female posters say it is, and that the punishment is infractions followed by bannings.

I do love it when posters prove my points by example

The undercurrent is one where there is a suggestion that it's tolerable to make generalisations based on gender in the name banter. It's not based on everything the females on this thread have said. That would be biased.

As I - quite clearly I thought - said above, I would like an emphasis on fostering an environment where everyone feels an equal standing irrespective of gender. I don't think this responsibility lies 100% with the Mods, I think it lies mostly with posters to be decent human beings with respect for others.

I'm not asking for the world, as much as my detractors would love to suggest that's the case, I'm simply asking for all boards.ie posters to be treated equally and to treat eachother with the decency they would if they were facing eachother on the street

ash23

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I don't see many men being disturbed enough by this 'undercurrent' to report posts, yes it seems like a measure that would be put in place just for women. But seeing as I have no idea what the 'undercurrent' is I can only imagine.

That's quite unfair. I have seen men defended by women on here, I have seem women strongly defend fathers rights and the inequalities faced by men in various areas.......and on this thread I have seen men defend a womans right to be treated with respect.
It's not about men and women. It's about fairness and respect. Being treated as equals.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Tombi!

ash23 wrote: »

That's quite unfair. I have seen men defended by women on here, I have seem women strongly defend fathers rights and the inequalities faced by men in various areas.......and on this thread I have seen men defend a womans right to be treated with respect.
It's not about men and women. It's about fairness and respect. Being treated as equals.

Proof is in this thread alone: I made a joke about punching a woman in the face (and I thought it was clear I was joking) and two women already jumped to defend me when I wasn't here.

So I think the issue is with certain posters' views rather than it being a pro woman thing.

Zulu

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I don't see many men being disturbed enough by this 'undercurrent'

I'd be one.

Abdul Abulbul Amir

Lyaiera wrote: »

Hang on? You're saying men wouldn't report abusive posts, harrasment, or an intolerent undercurrent?

I've said it before but I'll say it again, you're wrong.

Yes, please do continue asserting things, it's fun for everyone.

Well you're wrong. I've reported something I thought was in appropiate in AH and was (IMO) sexist.

But hey, you learned f**k all or else you're trying to troll.

If you bothered to actually read the thread you'd have known that we're trying to get generalization sexism banned.

Women don't matter. Men don't matter. Genders matter as a whole. Sexism affects both genders. Neither is going to be given special treatment.

You just keep swearing at me, what about my feelings brutal? Don't you ever think about them?

I think you're being deliberately obtuse actually. I don't know what an undercurrent is, I assume in this context is something that might make a woman feel bad, but something subtle enough that men wouldn't get it. I might be misinterpreting that but it's what I took from gem's post, particularly the reference to the mods being majority male. You're also assuming that I haven't read the thread, and while I couldn't say I've read every word I am familiar with what's going on. I thought there was some sort of agreement many pages back that this should be a voluntary arrangement, now not only is it not voluntary but it's far more wide ranging than the kind of blatant rudeness that sparked the thread. Apparently you'd prefer that I didn't point that out though.

Tombi!

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

Yes, please do continue asserting things, it's fun for everyone.



You just keep swearing at me, what about my feelings brutal? Don't you ever think about them?

I think you're being deliberately obtuse actually. I don't know what an undercurrent is, I assume in this context is something that might make a woman feel bad, but something subtle enough that men wouldn't get it. I might be misinterpreting that but it's what I took from gem's post, particularly the reference to the mods being majority male. You're also assuming that I haven't read the thread, and while I couldn't say I've read every word I am familiar with what's going on. I thought there was some sort of agreement many pages back that this should be a voluntary arrangement, now not only is it not voluntary but it's far more wide ranging than the kind of blatant rudeness that sparked the thread. Apparently you'd prefer that I didn't point that out though.

No, I don't care about your feelings in this case. Why? Because I just don't. If you have a problem: report me, leave or ignore me (or just request I don't respond to your posts in a civil manner and I won't).
If you don't know ask or google it.
an opinion, emotion, etc., lying beneath apparent feeling or meaning Also called underflow
I assume that's what it means.

If you were familliar, you'd have known that we wanted general gender bashing (not joking) gone out of AH.

Point out what you like but f**k it:
post any abusive, harmful, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, indecent, profane, inappropriate, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable Material, except where the content is appropriate to the content of the forum and you have been granted specific permission to do so and subject to our guidelines on said content

Personally, I think you're being ignorant on purpose and not just oblivious to some things. A mod already stated sexism is against the rules. It's more accepted here, we're trying to change it. It's not a volunteer thing.

Abdul Abulbul Amir

g'em wrote: »

I do love it when posters prove my points by example

The undercurrent is one where there is a suggestion that it's tolerable to make generalisations based on gender in the name banter. It's not based on everything the females on this thread have said. That would be biased.

As I - quite clearly I thought - said above, I would like an emphasis on fostering an environment where everyone feels an equal standing irrespective of gender. I don't think this responsibility lies 100% with the Mods, I think it lies mostly with posters to be decent human beings with respect for others.

I'm not asking for the world, as much as my detractors would love to suggest that's the case, I'm simply asking for all boards.ie posters to be treated equally and to treat eachother with the decency they would if they were facing eachother on the street

I'm afraid I'm still not getting what the undercurrent is though, a concrete example or two might help with that.

Also, I think it's detractor, singular, there only seems to be one of me.

I'm glad to hear that you want more emphasis on creating a better atmosphere, that's a fine goal. But you still haven't cleared up how exactly bannings and infractions would be operating here.

ash23

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I don't know what an undercurrent is, I assume in this context is something that might make a woman feel bad, but something subtle enough that men wouldn't get it.

That is not it at all. Many men "get it". Many women don't.

It's the fact that women are often subject to jibes and dismissive remarks. That their opinions are sometimes dismissed as the ranting of a woman on her period or a feminazi. The fact that when you post as a woman you can almost sense the collective eye rolling from some posters.
The abusive threads about us as a gender. The fact that we(as Irish women) are so often referred to in the most derogatory of ways.

It's lots of subtle and not so subtle ways of some posters segregating us or singling us out because we are women. If you express a strong opinion you're "getting worked up" as though we are some hysterical little women of old who are prone to fainting a lá Scarlett O'Hara.
We are not weak of body or of mind. We are the same as every man posting here except we have a vagina.

Lyaiera

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

Yes, please do continue asserting things, it's fun for everyone.

You said you don't see men being disturbed by this undercurrent. So at best you don't know what it is, but I think you're being deliberately obtuse. You said you've read the thread and it's been explained quite clearly so you must be being obstreperous.

Instead I'll tell you what this current is, again. It's sexist treatment of people in AHs.

Now you also said that you don't see many men being disturbed enough by this undercurrent to report posts. There are a couple of reasons for this.

A lot of people presumed sexist behaviour was de riguer and tolerated in AH. They have been corrected and should now know it's not acceptable.
A lot of people feel that this is an "undercurrent" as in it is something not immediately noticable and takes on a beneath the surface level of sexism that can't be attributed to an individual post. We are trying to see what can be done about that. Part of seeing what can be done is the airing of grievances, so the mods can know it's an issue, and so opinion can coalesce where it takes on an forum wide response to let people know these posts are not going to be tolerated.
Finally, you're not a mod so of course you wouldn't see what people are reporting.

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I don't see many men being disturbed enough by this 'undercurrent' to report posts, yes it seems like a measure that would be put in place just for women. But seeing as I have no idea what the 'undercurrent' is I can only imagine.

Jaxxy

There are a handful of posters in AH that I have seen post some pretty sexist and hateful things toward women. I suppose that is representative of real life. Only a handful, but these are people I personally would never want anything to do with in real life, and so have nothing to do with in AH.

I have been sucked in so many times and allowed myself to get involved in those ridiculous, irritating and sometimes insulting threads that bash Irish women specifically. Not anymore, now I avoid them like the plague and avoid any other thread that has the potential to nosedive into the "Irish wimmins are crap, foreign birds ftw" discussion before the end of the first page. It is usually the same small group of male posters extoling the virtues of the foreign ladies, seemingly at the expense of the Irish ladies who post here.

I hate these threads with a passion, in much the same way that I hate generalisations of any kind.

That said, I have seen little to no evidence of sexism outside of the kind of threads mentioned above. I have never felt patronised during a discussion or argument just because I'm a woman. Now that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I've just never experienced it personally.

The majority of male posters in AH are great; they'll give good discussion, or engage in funny banter, or thanks whore with funny one-liners. :pac:

I think it's just time to start reporting the minority. I've only ever reported one post in my time on boards but the next time I see one of those Irish vs Foreign Women threads pop up I'm going to report the **** out of that ****er.

Micky Dolenz

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm still not getting what the undercurrent is though, a concrete example or two might help with that.

Also, I think it's detractor, singular, there only seems to be one of me.

I'm glad to hear that you want more emphasis on creating a better atmosphere, that's a fine goal. But you still haven't cleared up how exactly bannings and infractions would be operating here.

Considering you just joined, it's understandable to not see an under current. Once you are here a while you'll get a better feel for the place.

All your questions have been answered already on this thread.

smash

ash23 wrote: »

It's the fact that women are often subject to jibes and dismissive remarks. That their opinions are sometimes dismissed as the ranting of a woman on her period or a feminazi. The fact that when you post as a woman you can almost sense the collective eye rolling from some posters.

Is a lot of it not in jest?

I find the women of AH give as good as they get in these circumstances. It occasionally gets heated by morons with outrageous views initiating an argument but it's usually caught pretty quickly.

Abdul Abulbul Amir

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No, I don't care about your feelings in this case. Why? Because I just don't. If you have a problem: report me, leave or ignore me (or just request I don't respond to your posts in a civil manner and I won't

You need to get yourself down the garage and have a new sarcasm detector fitted.

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

If you don't know ask or google it.

Are you taking the almighty piss?

Tombi!

smash wrote: »

Is a lot of it not in jest?

I find the women of AH give as good as they get in these circumstances. It occasionally gets heated by morons with outrageous views initiating an argument but it's usually caught pretty quickly.

Some of it is in jest. Some of it is a repeating patern by the same people. That's the issue.

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

You need to get yourself down the garage and have a new sarcasm detector fitted.



Are you taking the almighty piss?

Whut?

And no, I was 100% serious.

Zulu

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Some of it is in jest. Some of it is a repeating patern by the same people. That's the issue.

Is that not just trolls trolling?

Micky Dolenz

ash23 wrote: »

That is not it at all. Many men "get it". Many women don't.

It's the fact that women are often subject to jibes and dismissive remarks. That their opinions are sometimes dismissed as the ranting of a woman on her period or a feminazi. The fact that when you post as a woman you can almost sense the collective eye rolling from some posters.
The abusive threads about us as a gender. The fact that we(as Irish women) are so often referred to in the most derogatory of ways.

It's lots of subtle and not so subtle ways of some posters segregating us or singling us out because we are women. If you express a strong opinion you're "getting worked up" as though we are some hysterical little women of old who are prone to fainting a lá Scarlett O'Hara.
We are not weak of body or of mind. We are the same as every man posting here except we have a vagina.

By the by, the only time I see the word feminazi is in threads like this.

smash

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Some of it is in jest. Some of it is a repeating patern by the same people. That's the issue.

But that's the same for any thread with remarks about certain groups. Public sector workers, single parents, etc etc

Tombi!

Zulu wrote: »

Is that not just trolls trolling?

Being a dick is still the first rule in the charter here. So either way, it's bad news.

smash wrote: »

But that's the same for any thread with remarks about certain groups. Public sector workers, single parents, etc etc

Exactly and if those were reported, I feel they'd be removed. Sexism is the norm here. Just like certain over-the-top extreme views are another.

Using a joke doesn't (and shouldn't) give you a free "say whatever I like" card.

Abdul Abulbul Amir

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Considering you just joined, it's understandable to not see an under current. Once you are here a while you'll get a better feel for the place.

All your questions have been answered already on this thread.

I'll take it one of the moderators is telling me to shut up then. Fine, not much I can do about that.

Tombi!

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I'll take it one of the moderators is telling me to shut up then. Fine, not much I can do about that.

Actually I saw it as a: spend more time here and you'll understand a bit better. And after that it was "read the thread over and hopefully you'll get your answers".

I think on AH the mods post all mod related stuff in bold

Zulu

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

By the by, the only time I see the word feminazi is in threads like this.

In fairness I have to agree with this. I've been in a few "heated" threads on sexism, and by and large, the word "feminazi" isn't used, until it gets dragged in defensively ala this thread.
I'd suggest if people stopped worrying about being called a feminazi it might never happen.

ash23

smash wrote: »

Is a lot of it not in jest?

Yeah some of it is and some of it is funny. But at the same time, I remember the little fat kid in school who was "jested" by the other lads in the class. Lots of teasing and pushing and jostling. All which was taken with a smile and a laugh and as a bit of fun. Talked to him about our ten year reunion and he said he wasn't going because he was so miserable in school and hated every minute of it. He used to get sick in the morning at the thoughts of facing another day of "fun" and "jest".


A joke about Irish women being b!tches might be funny. Once. Maybe even twice. But when its repeated over and over and over it stops being "funny" and lighthearted and quickly becomes a kind of passive bullying.

Those kind of jokes in work are funny too. But if it's the same thing day in and day out it becomes sexual harrassment.

Zulu

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Being a dick is still the first rule in the charter here. So either way, it's bad news.

I agree it's bad news, but if it's just trolls trolling, then the "anti-woman" sentiment isn't quite so much an issue, is it - it's just dicks being dicks.

Tombi!

Zulu wrote: »

I agree it's bad news, but if it's just trolls trolling, then the "anti-woman" sentiment isn't quite so much an issue, is it - it's just dicks being dicks.

Mostly it is. But there are some people who really do have really extreme views that shouldn't be shared at all.

tigger123

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I don't see many men being disturbed enough by this 'undercurrent' to report posts, yes it seems like a measure that would be put in place just for women. But seeing as I have no idea what the 'undercurrent' is I can only imagine.

You're wrong. Alot of people (men and women) are disturbed by this undercurrent, and it is there.

It's one of the reasons I don't bother reading the more "serious" threads in AH anymore, there's no point, they generally get hijacked by muppets that project their own issues and insecurities onto these threads.

smash

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Exactly and if those were reported, I feel they'd be removed. Sexism is the norm here. Just like certain over-the-top extreme views are another.

Well they are entitled to an opinion, no matter how retarded it might seem to others. As long as they do it in a non provocative way. Although this rarely happens. The problem is that a lot of these opinions are backed up by other posters. Just look at the parent and child parking thread as an example of flaming/trolling of the highest order.

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Using a joke doesn't (and shouldn't) give you a free "say whatever I like" card.

I guess it depends on the posters history, there's a lot of people who will make comments and you know they're messing or just trying to lighten the mood.

Tombi!

smash wrote: »

Well they are entitled to an opinion, no matter how retarded it might seem to others. As long as they do it in a non provocative way. Although this rarely happens. The problem is that a lot of these opinions are backed up by other posters. Just look at the parent and child parking thread as an example of flaming/trolling of the highest order.


I guess it depends on the posters history, there's a lot of people who will make comments and you know they're messing or just trying to lighten the mood.

No, not everyone has the right to express it. Not on a forum at least.

I haven't viewed that topic but the thing is trolls are easy to spot.
The random single sexist post in the same manner, in several topics by the same user goes unreported for the most part, hence they get away with it.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

smash

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No, not everyone has the right to express it. Not on a forum at least.

That's what forums are for.

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I haven't viewed that topic but the thing is trolls are easy to spot.
The random single sexist post in the same manner, in several topics by the same user goes unreported for the most part, hence they get away with it.

For someone that's been here for only 2 months you seem to know a lot about a lot of posters history.

Tombi!

smash wrote: »

That's what forums are for.


For someone that's been here for only 2 months you seem to know a lot about a lot of posters history.

Except it's not. Every forum is private and they can forbid what they wish.

I lurked here since around 2007 maybe? Or at least a good few years.

smash

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Except it's not. Every forum is private and they can forbid what they wish.

forums are anything but private.

Tombi!

smash wrote: »

forums are anything but private.

No, I meant the fact they're privately owned and they (if they decided to) could turn this place into a man-hating, racist forum and it'd be fine.

Annasopra

Abdul Abulbul Amir wrote: »

I don't see many men being disturbed enough by this 'undercurrent' to report posts, yes it seems like a measure that would be put in place just for women. But seeing as I have no idea what the 'undercurrent' is I can only imagine.

I'm a man and I find a lot of the sexism on AH disturbing.

smash

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No, I meant the fact they're privately owned and they (if they decided to) could turn this place into a man-hating, racist forum and it'd be fine.

Tinfoil hats at the ready...

Tombi!

smash wrote: »

Tinfoil hats at the ready...

It's nothing like that. It's honestly just fact. IF they decided to ban all women, they can. Honestly, it's not conspriacy or anything

smash

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

It's nothing like that. It's honestly just fact. IF they decided to ban all women, they can. Honestly, it's not conspriacy or anything

Why would 'they' decide to do that? Get real here...

Tombi!

smash wrote: »

Why would 'they' decide to do that? Get real here...

I am. You're missing my original point. It's up to the owners to decide what is and is not allowed.

Logically there isn't any reason to ban all women/gingers/etc but it can happen.

You don't have free speech at all on a forum, ever. That was my point.

smash

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Logically there isn't any reason to ban all women/gingers/etc but it can happen.

Not unless they have a complete profile of all posters. Which they don't.

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

You don't have free speech at all on a forum, ever. That was my point.

You do, up to a point.

Tombi!

smash wrote: »

Not unless they have a complete profile of all posters. Which they don't.

You do, up to a point.

No, you do not.

Sigh you're not understanding but I'm tired of trying to reiterate the same point.

So if you feel you have free speech:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/faq.php?faq=bie_faq
BTW, I hate having to through links like that around so I'm not trying to be a dick or anything

smash

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No, you do not.

Sigh you're not understanding but I'm tired of trying to reiterate the same point.

So if you feel you have free speech:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/faq.php?faq=bie_faq
BTW, I hate having to through links like that around so I'm not trying to be a dick or anything

Like I said. You do up to a point. It's manners to not be an asshole!

"We believe that rules of etiquette should be applied (see below). Shouting about how we have infringed your "freedom of speech" on a privately owned website is silly."

Tombi!

smash wrote: »

Like I said. You do up to a point. It's manners to not be an asshole!

"We believe that rules of etiquette should be applied (see below). Shouting about how we have infringed your "freedom of speech" on a privately owned website is silly."

Oh, I'm sorry!

I misunderstood. I thought you meant it in a way as "I can say whever I like and it won't be removed". I didn't know you meant you can say what you like within certain boundries

Micky Dolenz

Think we are done here. Thanks for everyones contribution.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Lads, Ladies.

We'll be wrapping this thread up in the morning, before we start to go around in circles. The feedback is more then appreciate and we have taken a lot on board. Rest assured things will change and we are going to be having a general forum feedback thread in the very near future.