So what are YOUR ideas to revive Limerick?

zulutango

liammur wrote: »

Cork has big suburbs and I don't see any doughnut. Galway big suburbs and I still see no doughnut. Dublin has huge suburbs and still no doughnut.

The doughnut doesn't apply to small cities like Limerick, this should be obvious. It's an american term for far bigger cities. Of course if we closed down the crescent, people would have to go into the city to buy their groceries etc, but that's clutching at the most desperate of straws. The city centre was thriving 15 years ago, with the same suburbs, and you may not believe it, but the crescent was actually open long before then.

I see no reason to close the Crescent. Do you? Is somebody suggesting this?

liammur

zulutango wrote: »

eh ... Marien, I'm not saying he's wrong that the city needs jobs. Isn't that obvious? Of course it needs jobs. Who in their right mind would say otherwise! But there's more to it than that. Limerick was awash with jobs a few years ago, and the city was still in decay. Presenting the issue as one of employment only (which Liam pretty much is) will get us nowhere.

Employment is the main problem. I've also said regeneration is a huge problem. We need a new hospital here. There are lots of problems, as someone said the high social housing %. But trust me, the crescent etc isn't the problem.

zulutango

liammur wrote: »

Employment is the main problem. I've also said regeneration is a huge problem. We need a new hospital here. There are lots of problems, as someone said the high social housing %. But trust me, the crescent etc isn't the problem.

Who's saying the Crescent is the problem?

liammur

zulutango wrote: »

I see no reason to close the Crescent. Do you? Is somebody suggesting this?

On that mouthful, let's just say we won't be agreeing on this topic!

Kess73

zulutango wrote: »

Who's saying the Crescent is the problem?

Nobody on this thread, but it has been namechecked as one of the reasons why the city centre struggles by a few of the brilliant minds that have and do serve as local councillors and even a mayor or two in the past.

zulutango

liammur wrote: »

On that mouthful, let's just say we won't be agreeing on this topic!

Liam, you should actually have a good read of what other people are saying before you weigh in all guns blazing against their argument.

zulutango

Kess73 wrote: »

Nobody on this thread, but it has been namechecked as one of the reasons why the city centre struggles by a few of the brilliant minds that have and do serve as local councillors and even a mayor or two in the past.

That's true, but Liam keeps bringing it up in reference to my points, when I never even mentioned the place once.

Insect Overlord

Let's try not to make this debate too personal, please.

liammur

Kess73 wrote: »

Nobody on this thread, but it has been namechecked as one of the reasons why the city centre struggles by a few of the brilliant minds that have and do serve as local councillors and even a mayor or two in the past.

Exactly, and 1 thing we all have in common here is we all want the city to do well, and if more people were like us, the place would be far better, I can guarantee you that.

marienbad

zulutango wrote: »

eh ... Marien, I'm not saying he's wrong that the city needs jobs. Isn't that obvious? Of course it needs jobs. Who in their right mind would say otherwise! But there's more to it than that. Limerick was awash with jobs a few years ago, and the city was still in decay. Presenting the issue as one of employment only (which Liam pretty much is) will get us nowhere.

We have never really been awash with jobs Zulu - and certainly not the high end jobs that generate real money and skill. The only significant plum we have got in the last 25 years is Dell, and bear in mind that was replacing Wang Labs and the company that moved into the Wang building ( name escapes ).

The funny thing now is that people are always complaining of the Dell jobs that moved to Poland , but they were all the low end jobs the had to inevitably go and we have retained over 1000 of the high end high skilled jobs .

It is not just jobs - it is the right mix of jobs - Cork has the pharma sector , Dublin the financial sector , etc . We need to get in on the really top end stuff and we have seen nothing from the pols or the agencies to indicate that that will change anytime soon

Kess73

In the interest of thread peace let us all agree that I am right. :pac:



Or we could simply band together and blame the woes of Limerick on poets.


Quite like the second option.

liammur

marienbad wrote: »

We have never really been awash with jobs Zulu - and certainly not the high end jobs that generate real money and skill. The only significant plum we have got in the last 25 years is Dell, and bear in mind that was replacing Wang Labs and the company that moved into the Wang building ( name escapes ).

The funny thing now is that people are always complaining of the Dell jobs that moved to Poland , but they were all the low end jobs the had to inevitably go and we have retained over 1000 of the high end high skilled jobs .

It is not just jobs - it is the right mix of jobs - Cork has the pharma sector , Dublin the financial sector , etc . We need to get in on the really top end stuff and we have seen nothing from the pols or the agencies to indicate that that will change anytime soon

Prior to '97, this region was booming in the IT sector, particularly out in Castletroy. Now we can't blame government for this, more a case of very bad luck, but a lot of these companies failed in the tech crash.
The killer was, they were never replaced. Then Dell went, no replacement. So not only did we not get jobs, there was a net loss of many thousand. And, as you rightly point out, these are the high value jobs which create the follow on spend. That's mainly why I believe the city centre is in decline.
Galway since 1997, got Cisco/IBM/SAP/Boston Scientic/HP/Aviva and many more, all high end jobs. Just think of the office parties alone!

zulutango

I think the jobs argument is a very relevant one. There's no question about that.

There are other significant issues too. The structure of local government is massive. Indeed, the jobs issue, the issue of urban/suburban divide, the crime (perception) problem, and others are all strongly linked to it.

Kess73

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Let's try not to make this debate too personal, please.

Yep. The Boards mantra of attack the poet and not the poster should be followed at all times.

MajorMax

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

Kess73

MajorMax wrote: »

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

Ok Ripley.

liammur

Kess73 wrote: »

In the interest of thread peace let us all agree that I am right. :pac:



Or we could simply band together and blame the woes of Limerick on poets.


Quite like the second option.

Def can't agree with you on that, I've always like a good Limerick

CONSI

Have to agree with some of the suggestions
Rugby 7's - Thomond Park
Better use of Milk Market for cinema's etc and then spilling into the Market Quarter afterwards
Have a wine fair, buy a glass and try loads of different wines, with music and entertainment
Use Arthurs Quay Park, put in a stage, live music on Saturdays from up and coming Munster bands
Try to attract the street performers world championships
Parking costs have to be addressed aswell
Have a 70's revival weekend - fancy dress, pubs/hotels at 1970's prices, then have an 80's one, a 90's one...on weekensd when we don't have rugby to fall back on.
Turn the old Dunness on Sarsfield Bridge into a Library and wifi zone with a mini museum on Limerick history - perfect spot for tourists - maybe even get starbucks in there
Why not have a Boat Race between UL&LIT - our very own Oxford v Cambridge, get people into the city, line the river and have a festival around it.
Open up the empty units in Cruises Street to regular French Markets

liammur

zulutango wrote: »

Liam, you should actually have a good read of what other people are saying before you weigh in all guns blazing against their argument.

I read your points, and others not on this thread and I think you are quite an informed poster. As Kess said, you didn't mention the Crescent but it's cited as a big problem and cause of the so called doughnut. I disagreed with your suburb point, but that's all I disagreed with. As marien/kess have said, of course there are other problems the city is suffering from. I also happen to think that marien & kess would make for vastly superior representatives than any we have representing us.

liammur

CONSI wrote: »

Have to agree with some of the suggestions
Rugby 7's - Thomond Park
Better use of Milk Market for cinema's etc and then spilling into the Market Quarter afterwards
Have a wine fair, buy a glass and try loads of different wines, with music and entertainment
Use Arthurs Quay Park, put in a stage, live music on Saturdays from up and coming Munster bands
Try to attract the street performers world championships
Parking costs have to be addressed aswell
Have a 70's revival weekend - fancy dress, pubs/hotels at 1970's prices, then have an 80's one, a 90's one...on weekensd when we don't have rugby to fall back on.
Turn the old Dunness on Sarsfield Bridge into a Library and wifi zone with a mini museum on Limerick history - perfect spot for tourists - maybe even get starbucks in there
Why not have a Boat Race between UL&LIT - our very own Oxford v Cambridge, get people into the city, line the river and have a festival around it.
Open up the empty units in Cruises Street to regular French Markets

I must say, some very good points there. That Dunnes building really is a waste and in 1 of the most prime positions in the whole city.

zulutango

liammur wrote: »

I read your points, and others not on this thread and I think you are quite an informed poster. As Kess said, you didn't mention the Crescent but it's cited as a big problem and cause of the so called doughnut. I disagreed with your suburb point, but that's all I disagreed with. As marien/kess have said, of course there are other problems the city is suffering from. I also happen to think that marien & kess would make for vastly superior representatives than any we have representing us.

The Crescent is a symptom of the donut effect, rather than a cause of it. The cause was the lack of planning in the 70's and 80's. There was an exodus from the city by the middle classes. There were a host of reasons for this, but it did happen. And it is one of the principle reasons that the city centre is in decline.

Kess / Marien ... any interest in standing in the local elections?!

liammur

zulutango wrote: »

The Crescent is a symptom of the donut effect, rather than a cause of it. The cause was the lack of planning in the 70's and 80's. There was an exodus from the city by the middle classes. There were a host of reasons for this, but it did happen. And it is one of the principle reasons that the city centre is in decline.

Kess / Marien ... any interest in standing in the local elections?!

You need a city with office blocks otherwise it will be a town. Our politicians like Gilligan and O Dea believe in the doughnut, I don't.

They got it right in Dublin, moved people out, moved business in. Grants for the IFSC. Now there are thousands of people working there and it really benefitted the entire city. To me that's proper regeneration. And even though there's a 100,000 people in Tallaght alone, the doughnut hasn't destroyed that city. We should be asking why Dublin hasn't the so called doughnut.

Romain07

Who does own the Dunnes on Sarsfield St?

CONSI

I think Dunnes still own it or at least they are responsible for the upkeep of it, there was something a while back about them having to clean it up, grafitti and the like..but it's such an eyesore, tourists stay in the strand and walk in past it, surely there is something that can be done with it

mikemac1

CONSI wrote: »

Why not have a Boat Race between UL&LIT - our very own Oxford v Cambridge, get people into the city, line the river and have a festival around it

I love it

CONSI

mikemac1 wrote: »

I love it

Yeah Mike, always wondered why when we have numerous boat clubs, the new boat house in UL etc that we don't utilise the Shannon running through the city with a boat race....

Could also have kayak and canoe sprints between the bridges with people lining both sides of the river and enjoying...

Could be a way of finding some new rowers for future olympics, who knows.

zulutango

CONSI wrote: »

Yeah Mike, always wondered why when we have numerous boat clubs, the new boat house in UL etc that we don't utilise the Shannon running through the city with a boat race....

Could also have kayak and canoe sprints between the bridges with people lining both sides of the river and enjoying...

Could be a way of finding some new rowers for future olympics, who knows.

There's lots of difficulties with using the river for boating activity due to its tidal nature.

But I think you could be on to something. A one off 'boat race' type event, as opposed to a regatta could be the thing to do.

CONSI

zulutango wrote: »

There's lots of difficulties with using the river for boating activity due to its tidal nature.

But I think you could be on to something. A one off 'boat race' type event, as opposed to a regatta could be the thing to do.

Exactly, there has to be times in the year when it's do-able, a one off day regatta when the tides suit, often see boats out rowing during the day..

University style boat race and some other shorter races to keep people entertained as I said like kayak, canoe sprints could get our olympian up from Cork to help show how it's done..drinks on the river at clohesseys and the Quays bar, the clarion might get an outside licence and have that whole side lined, have something on in the skatepark...perhaps the boatclubs would open, good for their business aswell and maybe get them some new members, they could do a - (come and have a go on our machines or something), sure the Strand would do some business from it and the glasshouse bar/restaurant, could finish up by Curraghower not to leave them out, even the castle could do something and have people in for it up on the battlements...we have to think outside the box and use what we have..river is badly under used..could even get some barges in...and maybe some boats to take people on the river if they want..

liammur

CONSI wrote: »

I think Dunnes still own it or at least they are responsible for the upkeep of it, there was something a while back about them having to clean it up, grafitti and the like..but it's such an eyesore, tourists stay in the strand and walk in past it, surely there is something that can be done with it

Sarsfield St is a complete eyesore, I couldn't agree more, somthing needs to be done there.

Also the rowing, great idea, and if you look at Team GB in the olympics, how many medals they got from rowing. And it's an great sport to watch.

Kess73

zulutango wrote: »

There's lots of difficulties with using the river for boating activity due to its tidal nature.

But I think you could be on to something. A one off 'boat race' type event, as opposed to a regatta could be the thing to do.

Yep would agree with you as the tidal nature of the river, along with it's depth in certain spots, makes it very difficult to be able to hold a race along the stretches where crowds could gather to watch.

The race friendly stretches of water are simply not suitable (or safe) for watching crowds to gather.

Downriver of Shannon bridge is a more suitable stretch of water than the stretch between Sarsfield bridge and Shannon bridge, but is pretty useless as a location for a spectator event.

Between Thomond and Sarsfield bridges simply would not be a good spot for a race or races from a flow pov or from a safety pov for the racers.


Where many of the boat clubs train and where they currently race (when in the Limerick vicinity that is) is a very clear indicator as to the suitability of the river stretches.


I do think the river is criminally underused though, and the lack of suitable areas built alongside the river is a hell of a waste of a fantastic natural resource.