Daniel Tosh and the contentious issue of joke subject matter

Da Shins Kelly

So I dunno if any of you have been following this, but there has been a bit of scandal surrounding Daniel Tosh and a joke he made at the Laugh Factory in LA a couple of nights ago. Apparently he was making generalized statements about rape and then a woman spoke up and said "no, rape jokes aren't funny" to which Tosh replied, "wouldn't it be funny if she was raped by, like, five guys". Apparently the woman fled the venue thereafter. There has been a bit of a back lash against Tosh including a petition to have his Comedy Central show Tosh.O taken off the air in light of the incident (not going to happen, the show gets the most ratings for a non-animated comedy on Comedy Central), and he has since come out and made a half-assed apology for the joke.

Here's an article from the Huffington Post on the incident:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/10/daniel-tosh-rape-joke-laugh-factory_n_1662882.html

Anyway, the incident has created debate (not for the first time) here in the States surrounding censorship and what is appropriate subject matter for comedians. Certain comedians like Louis C.K and Dane Cook (not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing to have him on your side) have come out in defence of Tosh's right to free speech. Others however have called him out on it. This article expresses the opinion that while everything's fair game, it takes a certain kind of comedian to be able to pull off sensitive subject matter without just coming off as an *sshole, and Tosh is not that comedian:

http://austin.culturemap.com/newsdetail/07-12-12-14-37-the-best-response-weve-heard-to-daniel-toshs-misquoted-rape-jokes/

So where do people stand on this? Should he be bashed for the joke, or let off on free speech and anti-censorship grounds? Or is Tosh simply not good enough a comedian to successfully pull off this kind of joke?

I think that far too many comedians these days seem to think that shocking statements about taboo subject matter is comedy gold. A joke about rape when delivered with delivered with a little wit by a skilled comedian can be very funny. But in the hands of a lesser comedian it can just home across as crass andunfunny.

The comeback in this instance simply wasn't funny. It was comedy of the lowest form, the laugh at me because i used a shocking word/act in a sentence variety. The media backlash is a major over reaction and there is no justification for demanding his show be pulled.

faceman

I remember this story and its not the first time something like this has happened. Personally I think Its very bad taste and really if a comedian is worth his salt, he will just not go there.

In improv when I look for scene suggestions, if I get a controversial topic, myself and my co-performers will steer clear of making the scene controversial. An example that comes to mind was when I was looking for a time in history and someone shouted out "holocaust". I accepted the word but the scene that played out focused on the relationship that developed between a couple who met on a plane, watching Tarantino's Inglorious Basterds. The audience were entertained and no controversy need arise!

There are instances though were sometimes you have to say no. In one show, I got tsunami as a suggestion a week after the devastation in Asia. We politely declined going there!

AnthonyK7

It is totally up to the comedian to use what ever material he wants, I dont think what he said was a "joke" , it was simply a comeback. Funny in the surroundings as it got a laugh from the majority of the crowd.

Some comedians, especially in Ireland & the UK use PC comedy way too much for my taste so the more varied material the better, sick of the standardised comedy that I see regularly. I'd rather hear a rape joke than another "whats the craic with....etc"

AnonoBoy

AnthonyK7 wrote: »

Some comedians, especially in Ireland & the UK use PC comedy way too much for my taste so the more varied material the better, sick of the standardised comedy that I see regularly. I'd rather hear a rape joke than another "whats the craic with....etc"

What about "What's the craic with rape?" :pac:

To be honest anything can be made funny in the right hands. But as pointed out already far too many new comedians think throwing in a reference to rape or something equally "shocking" is an acceptable substitute for an actual joke.

If you go to enough open-mic nights you'll soon grow weary of 'shocking' jokes that have no craft to them, they're as boring as the next over-done bit.

I'm not sure what you mean by PC comedy either. Do you term anything that isn't offensive or edgy as 'PC'?

Crooked Jack

Frankly if you're the type that would get so offended by a joke on any subject that you would "flee" the building you probably shouldn't be going to stand up gigs.
I had the plug pulled on my mic at the weekend by some conservative do-gooder. It wouldnt have even bothered me so much except I wasnt even saying anything particularly extreme.

Miguel_Sanchez

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I had the plug pulled on my mic at the weekend by some conservative do-gooder. It wouldnt have even bothered me so much except I wasnt even saying anything particularly extreme.

I'm interested in this story. Where were you on? Was it an audience member or the MC?

AnthonyK7

AnonoBoy wrote: »

What about "What's the craic with rape?" :pac:


I'm not sure what you mean by PC comedy either. Do you term anything that isn't offensive or edgy as 'PC'?

Irish comedy is over run with average observations & mundane reminders

AnonoBoy

AnthonyK7 wrote: »

Irish comedy is over run with average observations & mundane reminders

Yup. I agree with you. Not sure how that's PC though.

Because someone doesn't talk about f*cking their granny does that make them PC really?

I'd say Irish comedy is pretty bored with mundane rape jokes too - I've heard so many sh*t ones in my time that for the most part they're yawn inducing at this stage.

AnthonyK7

What PC means to me is performing material that is nice for the crowd to hear & not neccessarily what you would want to say. I totally agree with you about shock comedy, saying it just to be shocking is hardly shocking.

I have heard very few good rape jokes, Louis CK does a funny one & even Gervais had a good one. But Frankie Boyle immatations are equally as irratating as the safe comics to me. I am a miserable f**ker really & am seldom happy with what I have heard from Irish/British comedians in the past few years.

Back to the OP point , I think that a comedian has a right to say what they think is funny and an audience member has a right to leave the venue silently if they disagree with him.

AnonoBoy

AnthonyK7 wrote: »

What PC means to me is performing material that is nice for the crowd to hear & not neccessarily what you would want to say.

I certainly don't think comedians should pander to what they think is expected of them. They should do what they want to do - I don't think anyone can become a truly great comedian without being honest on stage.

Crooked Jack

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

I'm interested in this story. Where were you on? Was it an audience member or the MC?

It was in a pub at a community festival. It was evening but there were still a few kids about. I warned them and warned them that I have a tendency to swear without even realising it and that if something pops into my head I'll say it but they assured me it would be grand. Sure enough a few minutes in one of the festival organisers pulled the plug on the mic.
Some people hear comedian and automatically think it's going to be brendan grace on stage.
The whole thing was terribly organised anyway, it was in some pub where 90 per cent of the patrons had no interest in hearing some comedy.
The first guy went on and for the first half of his act received irritated apathy and for the second half outright hostility.
I was sat at the edge watchin' him like the next prisoner up in front of the firing squad.

AnthonyK7

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I warned them and warned them that I have a tendency to swear without even realising it and that if something pops into my head I'll say it but they assured me it would be grand..

Haha, first thing that popped into my head ..... http://youtu.be/b1NegPmB17s

Crooked Jack

AnthonyK7 wrote: »

Haha, first thing that popped into my head ..... http://youtu.be/b1NegPmB17s

It was exactly like that, except less funny and with a smaller, angrier drunker crowd. Also Im not a famous comedian or film actor. Or black. Or american.
In fact now that I've watched that a few times the only similarity with my gig is the suit he was wearing. Brother got style.

Miguel_Sanchez

Crooked Jack wrote: »

It was in a pub at a community festival. It was evening but there were still a few kids about. I warned them and warned them that I have a tendency to swear without even realising it and that if something pops into my head I'll say it but they assured me it would be grand. Sure enough a few minutes in one of the festival organisers pulled the plug on the mic.
Some people hear comedian and automatically think it's going to be brendan grace on stage.
The whole thing was terribly organised anyway, it was in some pub where 90 per cent of the patrons had no interest in hearing some comedy.
The first guy went on and for the first half of his act received irritated apathy and for the second half outright hostility.
I was sat at the edge watchin' him like the next prisoner up in front of the firing squad.

Sounds delightful. I did a family show recently. Wound up being me on the side of the road in the mainstreet of a town with a microphone. Only time I've ever been heckled from a moving car.

I only did it so I could say, "You think that's bad.... one time I did a gig on the side of a road."

GenPol

To quote Ricky Gervais:
"Comedy comes from a good or a bad place. The subject of a joke isn’t necessarily the target of the joke. You can make jokes about race without any race being the butt of the joke. Racism itself can be the butt, for example."

I think he is totally spot on with that. Daniel Tosh is at his best, in my opinion, when he jokes about taboo subjects while keeping himself as the real butt of the joke. I suppose that "ironic racism/sexism/whateverism" might be another way to say what he's good at. The problems arise, however, at least with Daniel Tosh, when he over steps that irony.

(Here's the full quote)

"I never actively try to offend. That’s churlish, pointless and frankly too easy. But I believe you should say what you mean. Be honest. No one should ever be offended by truth. That way you’ll never have to apologize. I hate it when a comedian says, “Sorry for what I said.” You shouldn’t say it if you didn’t mean it and you should never regret anything you meant to do. As a comedian, I think my job isn’t just to make people laugh but also make them think. As a famous comedian, I also want a strict door policy on my club. Not everyone will like what I say or find it funny. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. There are enough comedians who try to please everyone as it is. Good luck to them, but that’s not my game, I’m afraid.

I’m not one of those people who think that comedy is your conscience taking a day off. My conscience never takes a day off and I can justify everything I do. There’s no line to be drawn in comedy in the sense that there are things you should never joke about. There’s nothing that you should never joke about, but it depends what that joke is. Comedy comes from a good or a bad place. The subject of a joke isn’t necessarily the target of the joke. You can make jokes about race without any race being the butt of the joke. Racism itself can be the butt, for example. When dealing with a so-called taboo subject, the angst and discomfort of the audience is what’s under the microscope. Our own preconceptions and prejudices are often what are being challenged. I don’t like racist jokes. Not because they are offensive. I don’t like them because they’re not funny. And they’re not funny because they’re not true. They are almost always based on a falsehood somewhere along the way, which ruins the gag for me. Comedy is an intellectual pursuit. Not a platform."

From: http://ideas.time.com/2011/11/09/the-difference-between-american-and-british-humour/

EDIT: To answer the question, I think that Tosh really just isn't a smooth enough comedian to pull off the kind of humor he's going for. The shock value really depletes over time, and once that is taken away, there isn't a lot left.