Alcohol problems in Waterford and Ireland

spankmemunkey

I think its starting to hit home and it has been brought more to public attention that we are in the grasp of a chronic alcohol problem.

I was in the peoples park the other day with my kids it was about 13.00 and there were kids sitting near the skate board area absolutely wasted, they were no more than 15.

I have to say i blame parents for this, how are the parents of these kids going to punish them when the chances are they are drinkers and like to go to the pub and get drunk and or drink at home and get drunk.

If you were a smoker and your kid started smoking you couldnt really say anything as your the one setting the example, So dont smoke in front of them, the same can be said for drink dont drink in front of your kids or just dont drink, set a good example and break the habit of a lifetime.

Kids copy their parents, they like to try on shoes and hold mammies bag over the shoulder and pretend to smoke same goes for drink.

No its not everybody to blame but its a chronic problem and we dont realise how powerful this psycho active drug alcohol is, you wouldnt smoke in front of your kids if you didnt want them to smoke, you wouldnt do coke in front of your kids lets break the habit of a lifetime.

Max Powers

spankmemunkey wrote: »

I think its starting to hit home and it has been brought more to public attention that we are in the grasp of a chronic alcohol problem.

I was in the peoples park the other day with my kids it was about 13.00 and there were kids sitting near the skate board area absolutely wasted, they were no more than 15.

I have to say i blame parents for this, how are the parents of these kids going to punish them when the chances are they are drinkers and like to go to the pub and get drunk and or drink at home and get drunk.

If you were a smoker and your kid started smoking you couldnt really say anything as your the one setting the example, So dont smoke in front of them, the same can be said for drink dont drink in front of your kids or just dont drink, set a good example and break the habit of a lifetime.

Kids copy their parents, they like to try on shoes and hold mammies bag over the shoulder and pretend to smoke same goes for drink.

No its not everybody to blame but its a chronic problem and we dont realise how powerful this psycho active drug alcohol is, you wouldnt smoke in front of your kids if you didnt want them to smoke, you wouldnt do coke in front of your kids lets break the habit of a lifetime.

Spankmemonkey, it has been in the news a good bit lately.
Ireland is drowning in a sea of alcohol sums it up. We as a nation have an irresponisble attitude towards drink. Something that people should wise up to also is that the problem is closer to home than you think, How many of us think that Joe Bloggs next door/your friend/brother has a 'little' drink problem without looking at our own behaviour. Yes we all need to set an example, public drunkeness is never acceptable, the Gardai should arrest anyone drinking on the street or a danger to themselves or others. At the very minimum, booze should be taken off street drinkers and poured down drains, not looking the other way which is what happens now.

spankmemunkey

I agree with your point. But im looking at it from the view of a parent. I was someone who enjoyed a drink but i dont drink anymore and made a point of not drinking anymore, I would rather not sit at home and drink in front of my children normalising alcohol consumption.

I think the key is education at home, Its like were bringing our kids up in a party atmosphere, they seem to be joining the party.

I will be in a position to speak to my kids about alcohol as i dont drink and i wont be a hypocrit(spelling?) I know its a bit of a rant but i think its for the greater good.

I suppose im looking at this from the view of a parent. It seems our entire social circle revolves around the pub and drink, Irish people cant socialise or interact without drink as i said it seems to be a social lubricant.

ROCKMAN

spankmemunkey wrote: »

I think its starting to hit home and it has been brought more to public attention that we are in the grasp of a chronic alcohol problem.

I was in the peoples park the other day with my kids it was about 13.00 and there were kids sitting near the skate board area absolutely wasted, they were no more than 15.

I have to say i blame parents for this, how are the parents of these kids going to punish them when the chances are they are drinkers and like to go to the pub and get drunk and or drink at home and get drunk.

If you were a smoker and your kid started smoking you couldnt really say anything as your the one setting the example, So dont smoke in front of them, the same can be said for drink dont drink in front of your kids or just dont drink, set a good example and break the habit of a lifetime.

Kids copy their parents, they like to try on shoes and hold mammies bag over the shoulder and pretend to smoke same goes for drink.

No its not everybody to blame but its a chronic problem and we dont realise how powerful this psycho active drug alcohol is, you wouldnt smoke in front of your kids if you didnt want them to smoke, you wouldnt do coke in front of your kids lets break the habit of a lifetime.

Thats some conclusion.
Sometimes teenagers are just teenagers and will/do experiment and it will have nothing to do with their home life ,In fact some of the most rebellious teens can/and do come from strict /undrinking homes

As for trying on shoes and bags etc maybe went their 5 or 6 but no teens want to copy their folks in fact its usually the opposite.

The Bishop Basher

I really hope for your sake that your kids turn out the way you plan. Unfortunately, the reality is rarely so simple.

I'm pretty sure that the majority of kids who smoke weed or snort coke, didn't watch their parents do it at home. Yet they still do it.

Yes there is an issue with alcohol in this country but equally, there are plenty who enjoy alcohol responsably.

We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

On the contrary, I would rather set a good example to my kids by showing them how to approach alcohol with respect. Sweeping it under the carpet leads to ignorance and future issues imo.

As with everything in life, moderation is key.

ROCKMAN

Swanner wrote: »

I really hope for your sake that your kids turn out the way you plan. Unfortunately, the reality is rarely so simple.

I'm pretty sure that the majority of kids who smoke weed or snort coke, didn't watch their parents do it at home. Yet they still do it.

Yes there is an issue with alcohol in this country but equally, there are plenty who enjoy alcohol responsably.

We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

On the contrary, I would rather set a good example to my kids by showing them how to approach alcohol with respect. Sweeping it under the carpet leads to ignorance and future issues imo.

As with everything in life, moderation is key.

good post and great point, IMHO

jimbojazz

I think peer pressure is the biggest contributor in this. Even the most responsible of parents have been affected by their kids drinking at a young age. You cant be with them the whole time - they have to have their freedom to a certain extent. You can take all the precautons in the world to prevent them form doing this but if they want to drink and get access to it, there is very little you can do to stop it.

One example I can give is that my daughter (who was 15 at the time) told us she was staying with friends one night. We were ringing every hour to check on her. We even spoke with who we thought was the others girls mother to see if this was the case. But something didnt seem right - later on we rang to check on her again but her phone was switched off. So I decided to call down to the other girl's house to check on her - just as I was about to turn in to the estate my phone rang - they said it was the Gardai - you can imagine what went thro' my head - they said they had picked up her and her friends in Mooncoin and brought them to the station for their own safety.

So even though we had done everything we thought was right she still fooled us - and only for the Gardai would have got away with it.

Baasically they bribed the other girls older sister to lie for them and had told the other girls mother that they were staying with us and got a friend to pretend that she was her mother

Kitty_Ears

jimbojazz wrote: »

Basically they bribed the other girls older sister to lie for them and had told the other girls mother that they were staying with us and got a friend to pretend that she was her mother

Your daughter is a crafty one... my lies where never so calculated.

Most kids do it these day, I had my share of getting drunk on a bottle of WKD in the park. They get caught, cop on... then do it a few more times :L

I wouldn't say it's the parens fault, just as Jiimbojazz said, parents could think they're doing all the right things and take every precaution but kids are gonna do what they're gonna do.

spankmemunkey

I suppose kids will be kids, I guess my point was lets not as parents add to the temptation of drinking alcohol, I was just opening it up for debate and dont think i am perfect or anything like that.

Kids who have both parents or one parent smoking will most likely but not in all cases end up being smokers.

Im not saying that it is the answer to the drink problem we have, I would just say our society is awash with subliminal messages in TV in the home all over the place and yes teens will be teens and will try things, but I think parents not being drunk or drinking in front of their kids will help to a degree, Its a good start. I do think it is also peer pressure and kids will lie to parents. I know my kids wont be seing me drunk or going to the pub or coming home drunk, and it is just a personal opinion.

wellboytoo

My youngest is eighteen, I have been very lucky with my three kids one does not drink at all, the other two in moderation, I never drank at home or my wife, only the occasional glass.
But I was not shy of hanging one on, but never let them see me tanked up till they were older.
We allowed them have a drink with a meal in their early teens if they wanted, but never pushed.
I don't know the answer, but I took a bottle of vodka off one of my youngest kids friends at a party the other night as he was chugging it down,asked him why he was doing it and he said to get hammered, this I do not understand, never went out with the intention of getting hammered in my life!
I do feel that education in general not just on alcohol, is the key, but as a previous poster said you cannot plan their lives and "the best laid plans of mice and men"......

spankmemunkey

I do agree that education is key and that starts with the parents aswell.

Its just like were up against it on so many levels as parents to try and keep our kids on the straight and narrow til adulthood but there are so many obstacles thrown in our way and me personally i dont want to add to one of those influences, They do have enough our kids today to pull them towards drinking, everybody is doing it, when they are in a pre or early teen group if they go drinking they could think they are cool kids were grown up now and so on. I dont think its simply a case of banning advertising of sporting events although i do agree with that. like they do in France, its just another way of reducing the exposure to alcohol, even if it does happen youll still get kids drinking hopefully in less numbers and not my kids;)

deisemum

When I was growing up the only alcohol in the house was whiskey or sometimes sherry that was only for visitors at christmas or if there was a death in the family or a sherry trifle if it was an occasion.

Both of my parents were pioneers so never drank but it still didn't deter my siblings or myself from drinking though I didn't have a drink until the month of my 18th birthday. I rarely drink now but think the fact that my parents particularly my Dad were anti alcohol only made it appeal more.

My older son will be 17 in a few weeks and only started having the occasional beer at home in the last month and once at a friend's house at a family event, same with his friends that he hangs about with. I had been on the watchout since he was turning 15 thinking that all teenagers were off drinking somewhere but it's only now that he's starting to have the occasional drink.

A lot of people I grew up with went on the tear in their late teens and early 20's but once they had families and mortgages they cut back a lot due to money and less opportunity.

bradknowell

Peer pressure can be bad in fairness. Didnt really have any peer pressure when I was growing up, I was a year older than most of the lads I hung around with so I probably pressured them into drinking. Haha ah no I didnt pressure them into anything.
Some friends where allowed drink at home with their parents but most of us just went up the field beside our house and got pissed.

Potential-Monke

One of the many (but far from the main) reasons i never want children.

It is a big issue, and it always will be. Government makes too much money on it to ban it, and getting them to regulate/monitor it properly would be harder than asking them to organise a pish up in a brewery, with which they wouldn't be able to either.

I think we need to go the Belgian route, make the age for drinking 14/15, teens like doing what they're not allowed. If they're allowed to drink, most won't be that interested in it. But then they'll look for something that is illegal and turn to drugs (which imo should be legal and regulated, but that's a different discussion). Belguim doesn't have a alcohol problem. But, it's Ireland, it's in our culture so it's not going to change anytime soon.

Maybe increase the fines for drunk in public. At the moment it's an €80 fine, increase that to €250 and people might think twice.

Johnny Johnson

Zero tolerance needs to be introduced with alcohol in relation to minors, shops that sell to minors etc. etc.

Silverado

I hate to be a party pooper but I'm inclined to agree with the Americans, make the minimum age for drinking alcohol 21 years.

We Irish, like our friends the Brits, just can't control our drinking. Have you ever seen a young group of French, Italians, Spanish quite happily drinking coka cola in a cafe at evening time, even groups of young men in their early 20s. I certainly have. Unfortunately the same group of Irish/British would be downing the beers in the same situation.

The minimum drinking age for drinking alcohol in those countries is 16 but it is just not an issue. They simply don't feel the need to drink to oblivion. Of course there is no point in telling our youth that they are storing up trouble in terms of their future health. Do the girls even realise that they can get cirrhosis of the liver in half the time a male takes?

I agree with the point about education in taking alcohol at an early age. Some Irish boarding schools even allow their sixth year students a can of beer on a Saturday night for that very reason.

I'm glad that the issue of extreme binge drinking is getting a good airing just now. Perhaps those deaths at the Phoenix Park concert may not be totally in vain if something can be salved from it. Will we see any action from Roisin Shortall's report to the cabinet as a result?

Triangla

OP - Did you call the cops to report the underage drinking?

wellboytoo

A nephew of mine works In a bar inn Australia, he had to do two courses one on alcohol and one on gambling .if he Is caughtserving a minor he is fined twenty five thousand dollars the bar the same and it must close for two years.
Drastic but effective.

spankmemunkey

Potential-Monke wrote: »

One of the many (but far from the main) reasons i never want children.

It is a big issue, and it always will be. Government makes too much money on it to ban it, and getting them to regulate/monitor it properly would be harder than asking them to organise a pish up in a brewery, with which they wouldn't be able to either.

I think we need to go the Belgian route, make the age for drinking 14/15, teens like doing what they're not allowed. If they're allowed to drink, most won't be that interested in it. But then they'll look for something that is illegal and turn to drugs (which imo should be legal and regulated, but that's a different discussion). Belguim doesn't have a alcohol problem. But, it's Ireland, it's in our culture so it's not going to change anytime soon.

Maybe increase the fines for drunk in public. At the moment it's an €80 fine, increase that to €250 and people might think twice.

I agree with you on the money the government makes, same with smoking, and can anybody define drink responsibly? one drink an hour? if that was the case the drinks industry would be bankrupt.

I dont agree with lowering the age of consent to 16, you can drink beer in germany at 16 just not spirits, however at 16 the brain is not fully developed and alcohol as we know damages the brain, and this is factual i just dont have stats to hand but you could google it, its been widely condemed, for its effects on the brais of teens.

I dont agree with letting boarding schools give beer to students in a responsible way, to me this is giving up and almost giving in to peer pressure and its against the law if your under 18,

My question or my arguement is WHY is alcohol playing such a huge role?

I also dont agree with annicdotal(spelling?) evidence that in france its okay or in germany its okay! ive lived in both countries and i can tell you they do have huge problems with alcohol too, maybe not as bad and as early as the Irish but they do, people throw out these well in germany the bus's run on time or in france this wouldnt happen but they dont really know for sure,

deisemum

One thing that I've noticed over the years is that there are some people who drink alcohol that think every adult should be drinking and if you're not then there must be something up with you, it's like they're suspicious of you if you're not or if you do drink alcohol and you only want a couple of drinks and don't want anymore they insist on buying you a drink and then are a bit thick with you when you wont drink it.

ComfyKnickers

It's a hard one to call as there is no right and wrong thing to do but I don't think giving up drink yourself or not drinking in front of the kids will make them not do it. I remember years ago my father smoked. A leaflet came in the door warning of the dangers of smoking and my brother cried his eyes out and begged my father to give it up. He stopped that day and never smoked since. My brother is now a heavy smoker himself and has been for years!!

I do believe children are drinking way too young these days, I'm not old by any means but I'm amazed at the difference from when I was a teen (late 80's) - I'd go out with a fiver down to Fat Sams and get two bottles of Ritz and I was happy out!! My kids would see me having a drink at home, I might have a bottle of wine on a Saturday night but that would be it, I would not allow them to see me drunk though I have thankfully reached the stage where I don't really get that drunk anymore, the hangover simply isn't worth it!!

And the OP has given me another reason to keep my daughter out of the park so thanks for that

thomasm

Part of the problem is publicans serving people who are clearly drunk. I cannot recall ever seeing someone being refused service. Perhaps anyone in the trade can clarify if they are given any guidance on this. As far as I know it's illegal to serve someone who is drunk.

spankmemunkey

ComfyKnickers wrote: »

It's a hard one to call as there is no right and wrong thing to do but I don't think giving up drink yourself or not drinking in front of the kids will make them not do it. I remember years ago my father smoked. A leaflet came in the door warning of the dangers of smoking and my brother cried his eyes out and begged my father to give it up. He stopped that day and never smoked since. My brother is now a heavy smoker himself and has been for years!!

I do believe children are drinking way too young these days, I'm not old by any means but I'm amazed at the difference from when I was a teen (late 80's) - I'd go out with a fiver down to Fat Sams and get two bottles of Ritz and I was happy out!! My kids would see me having a drink at home, I might have a bottle of wine on a Saturday night but that would be it, I would not allow them to see me drunk though I have thankfully reached the stage where I don't really get that drunk anymore, the hangover simply isn't worth it!!

And the OP has given me another reason to keep my daughter out of the park so thanks for that

Yeah and im not saying that i have all the answeres and everybody is entitled to their opinion, but for example now like you say you have a drink at home, and im not having a go at you im just debating with you, say your at home having a bottle of wine on a saturday evening and your daughter or son heads out ,your 16 year old and comes home really drunk, and the child says back to you sure you cant tell me your sitting at home drinking, how would you respond?

I just think we can be teaching or trying to teach our kids better habbits is all, and im not saying that it would deffinetly work, I dont drink anymore cos i dont enjoy alcohol, and even if i had one or two id still get a head ache and its not worth it the next day with kids and being in bad mood and so on.

I do think a discussion like this is healthy and helps, I saw kids drinking near the skate board area, the kids were wearing very little and boys and girls groping each other kissing heavily and drinking,

Silverado

spankmemunkey wrote: »

I dont agree with letting boarding schools give beer to students in a responsible way, to me this is giving up and almost giving in to peer pressure and its against the law if your under 18

I think that you may be missing the point here. Those schools only give beer to pupils over the age of 18 with their parents consent, and it is only one can. The idea is to show the youth how normal people should behave socially if they are being offered alcohol. Obviously you don't agree with educating the youth in the use of alcohol.

bradknowell

thomasm wrote: »

Part of the problem is publicans serving people who are clearly drunk. I cannot recall ever seeing someone being refused service. Perhaps anyone in the trade can clarify if they are given any guidance on this. As far as I know it's illegal to serve someone who is drunk.

I've seen loads of people being refused more drink because they be in such a state.
granted I've also seen people in some state and still getting served, but yeah, it does happen that people get turned away.

spankmemunkey

Silverado wrote: »

I think that you may be missing the point here. Those schools only give beer to pupils over the age of 18 with their parents consent, and it is only one can. The idea is to show the youth how normal people should behave socially if they are being offered alcohol. Obviously you don't agree with educating the youth in the use of alcohol.

Teaching them to DRINK?

Why?

Why not say well we have a serious serious problem here with drink in Ireland and lets just discourage it, I think alot of people have blinkers on when it comes to this topic.

Why not leave the head shops open? why not if they want to get high whats wrong with that? some people are going to use drugs anyway not matter what we do so why not legalise it? Lets get cannabis legalised and cocaine and heroin at least the government can get a tax take on it and it can be better controlled. If alcohol was a new thing that was invented last year it wouldnt be permitted for sale,

Alcohol is an addictive pshycoactive drug that causes huge problems in this country and i dont see why people are so willing to defend it.

And yeah this is my opinion if you disagree fair enough just say i disagree there, no need to get upset

ComfyKnickers

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Yeah and im not saying that i have all the answeres and everybody is entitled to their opinion, but for example now like you say you have a drink at home, and im not having a go at you im just debating with you, say your at home having a bottle of wine on a saturday evening and your daughter or son heads out ,your 16 year old and comes home really drunk, and the child says back to you sure you cant tell me your sitting at home drinking, how would you respond?

I just think we can be teaching or trying to teach our kids better habbits is all, and im not saying that it would deffinetly work, I dont drink anymore cos i dont enjoy alcohol, and even if i had one or two id still get a head ache and its not worth it the next day with kids and being in bad mood and so on.

I do think a discussion like this is healthy and helps, I saw kids drinking near the skate board area, the kids were wearing very little and boys and girls groping each other kissing heavily and drinking,

But drinking in itself if not a bad habit, it's abuse of alcohol is the problem. If as you say my 16 year old son or daughter comes in drunk and challenges me for having a go at them simply because I'm having a bottle of wine, the first thing I would do is give them a bloody good clip around the ear for speaking to me that like, drunk or not!!

I read your post before I went home from work yesterday evening and I hadn't time to reply then but driving home, I decided I'd actually ask my daughter (who is 14) what she thought of alcohol and would me having a bottle of wine at home (not even every week because I don't!) affect her in any way or affect her view on drinking. She looked very puzzled when I asked her and her reply was "why would it, sure it's okay for you to have a drink". I've told my children it's okay to have a drink when you reach the right age but to be careful and do it in moderation.

I come from a family where my mother was and still is a pioneer and my father used to have a few drinks in the pub on a Friday night on the way home from work and on a Saturday but never really drank at home. And yet from the age of 16 onward, I drank.

My husband comes from a family where neither parent ever drank and yet again, from the age of 16 on, he used to be out drinking every Thursday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday night until his early twenties when he settled down (drink wise!!).

One couple who I am friends with - he drinks out in the pubs a lot and she drinks at home and they would be seen to do it a lot more publicly and more often than me, yet their 21 year old hardly drinks at all because she was just never bothered with it!!

I don't know how old your children are but whether or not you drink at home or in the pub, I guarantee you they will make their own decisions on the matter and it probably won't have anything to do with the fact you didn't drink at home or in front of them!

I'll tell you what I don't agree with - I have cousins quite a bit older than me on one side of the family. When we were growing up, they practically spent their lives in the pub and had all of their children with them, no matter the age, say on a Sunday morning and the kids would basically be bought a few large bottles of TK Lemonade & a few bags of crisps and the whole lot of them would stay there until the afternoon. Those kids are now in their 20's or thereabouts and their lives now revolve around pubs and the bookies office etc, just like their parents.

There is a huge difference between this (which is basically a "way of life") and me having a bottle of wine and a packet of Doritos (cause I'm classy that way ) in the comfort of my living room while watching a DVD with the hubby.

Once you raise your children well and teach them the things they need to be wary of and have respect for and the right way to treat the people in their lives, I honestly believe that will have more of a bearing on how they interact with the outside world, alcohol included, than me having a Horlicks on a Saturday night instead of my Shiraz!!

spankmemunkey

Yeah thats a good point i agree with you there, I dont like to see that either surprise surprise when it comes to kids sitting in a pub with their parents.

Regarding your daughter(every child is different and their relationship with their parents) but do you think she would be honest with you and tell you that she was drunk something she would probably be worried about telling her mother or she has drank before!

I do think that my choice along with teaching my kids properly about alcohol is whats needed, but i will still not drink in front of them, I dont want to drink anyway at this stage cos i feel that much better for it, ive been off drink that long that even a smell of it gives me a hangover!

watermark

i used to get drunk so i wasnt self conscious when "dancing". the problem these days is people get drunk to be drunk!

attitudes need to change, not laws.

how you change the attitude of hundreds of thousands of people is beyond me:rolleyes:

spankmemunkey

watermark wrote: »

i used to get drunk so i wasnt self conscious when "dancing". the problem these days is people get drunk to be drunk!

attitudes need to change, not laws.

how you change the attitude of hundreds of thousands of people is beyond me:rolleyes:

Thats exactly what i mean, It helps people to lose their inhabitions, the same way you did when you wanted to dance, or talk to girls, thats not really good is it when ye exam it, people dont like to hear this but we cant bury our heads in the sand either!

watermark

my experiences of alcohol though have always been good, around good people. one of my fondest memories is at 3am in the forum circa 2003/4 about 40 strangers wrapped arms around each other and sang afternoon delight in a massive circle.

but others experiences may be of violence and vomiting. i believe alcohol doesnt cause violence or anti-social behaviour, it simply brings out those traits in a personality. apologies if thats slightly off topic.