Parent & Child Parking Spaces - A Poll

Skylinehead

stimpson wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Well it certainly implies it.

Of course it comes into it. Our whole legal system is based around habeous corpus. The only person who can decide if my actions are illegal is a judge. Even if you murder someone you are presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Look up the word illegal. It will say something is illegal if it is prohibited by the law. Vandalism is prohibited by the law. Judges don't decide what is legal/illegal, the law itself does - unless the law/circumstances are vague, then and only then will the judge have to make a judgement on it. This case certainly doesn't come under that.

stimpson

bigjoe wrote: »

Obviously you spend so much time with your children that you think like a child and won’t admit when you are wrong. You talk about it going to court; if it were not illegal it would never get to court.

So people are never found innocent? Why have courts at all then?

You made a statement “It's hardly illegal” yes it is illegal. Any damage to other people’s property is illegal. Weather you are found guilty or financially responsible for it or not is not the question here. I never mentioned malicious intent you did but that is not what you first said you are now twisting things to suit you.

Malicious intent must be proved for a person to be found guilty of a criminal offence.

Skylinehead wrote: »

Well it certainly implies it.

That's just your opinion.

Look up the word illegal. It will say something is illegal if it is prohibited by the law. Vandalism is prohibited by the law. Judges don't decide what is legal/illegal, the law itself does - unless the law/circumstances are vague, then and only then will the judge have to make a judgement on it. This case certainly doesn't come under that.

The judge (actually a jury in a criminal case) get's to decide if an offense has been comitted. Vandalism is wilfull damage to someone's property. If it's not willful, then it's not vandalism, and no offense has been committed.

Wow. We have plenty of Lionel Hutz's in today.

Son Of A Vidic

Do I park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket/shopping centre?

Yes and god help anyone that takes issue with it. You're not privileged, nor disabled just because you have kids. You decided to have kids, it was your choice, so big deal and now get over yourself. I don't think a disabled person suddenly decided to become disabled. That's why I will always respect a disabled persons parking space. Your able bodied and you have a kid, so what? Parents managed long before the onset of this bullshít, quite laughable really for anyone to put parenthood on a par with having a disability.

BostonB

We used to be able to drive unbelted and drive drunk, no baby seats.

Ah the good old days...

These spaces are simply a reaction to that cars are bigger, car parks are busier,
and a lot of people don't park properly making it almost impossible to get a baby out of a baby seat.

stovelid

BostonB wrote: »

We used to be able to drive unbelted and drive drunk.

Ah the good old days...

Or indeed there is no danger in a car park for children because 17 kids are not killed every week in them.

Prettyblack

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Do I park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket/shopping centre?

Yes and god help anyone that takes issue with it. You're not privileged, nor disabled just because you have kids. You decided to have kids, it was your choice, so big deal and now get over yourself.

Would you take a trolley full of items to the "10 items or less isle" and expect to be served? Would you feel you are entitled to be served?

If you went to the cinema and had your seat number printed on the ticket, would you sit where you liked because you were "entitled" to?

What if I had a child with me on a plane, yet I wanted to sit in the emergency exit row? Aren't I entitled to? Oh but the airline made the rule, you'll say. Didn't the supermarket also make the rule about the P&C spaces?

We don't have carpool lanes here, but if we did, would you drive in one on your own? I mean, the people who use them correctly CHOSE to have another person with them, right? They aren't priviledged!

Plates

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Do I park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket/shopping centre?

Yes and god help anyone that takes issue with it.

Parents across the land must be shaking in their boots - "god help anyone" - really?

You make a choice to park in those spaces - why?

This thread has turned into a general discussion about common courtesy, respect and good old fashioned manners. Clearly they are values that we need a lot more people to embrace.

Skylinehead

stimpson wrote: »

It's weird though - when I see people using the spaces without kids, my shopping trolley seems magnetically attracted to the cars and I have "accidentally" caused a few dents and scrapes. Never happens when the spaces are used by parents though. Weird.

stimpson wrote: »

So people are never found innocent? Why have courts at all then?

Malicious intent must be proved for a person to be found guilty of a criminal offence.

That's just your opinion.

The judge (actually a jury in a criminal case) get's to decide if an offense has been comitted. Vandalism is wilfull damage to someone's property. If it's not willful, then it's not vandalism, and no offense has been committed.

Wow. We have plenty of Lionel Hutz's in today.

The quote above shows malicious intent. And you're getting mixed up with something being illegal and being found guilty of committing an offence.

BostonB

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Do I park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket/shopping centre?

Yes and god help anyone that takes issue with it. You're not privileged, nor disabled just because you have kids. You decided to have kids, it was your choice, so big deal and now get over yourself. I don't think a disabled person suddenly decided to become disabled. That's why I will always respect a disabled persons parking space. Your able bodied and you have a kid, so what? Parents managed long before the onset of this bullshít, quite laughable really for anyone to put parenthood on a par with having a disability.

Its arguable that the spots are there (close to the shops) to make life easier/safer for kids as much as to facilitate the parents.

RaRaRasputin

Plates wrote: »

Parents across the land must be shaking in their boots - "god help anyone" - really?

I bet he meant it in a caring way because the majority of people here are getting close to a heart attack /killing spree/ diarrhoea attack because some people dare to park in the P&C spaces.

stimpson

Skylinehead wrote: »

The quote above shows malicious intent. And you're getting mixed up with something being illegal and being found guilty of committing an offence.

ac·ci·dent [ak-si-duhnt]
noun
1.
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.

BostonB

I don't really understand why people want to park in these spots without kids. Its makes no different in speed of accessing the shops. You're more likely to get your car damaged, than parking further away. When I'm on my own I generally park well way from the busy areas, and trolly return bays etc. Its like a 20 sec walk usually. Even if I down a lot of shopping or loading something awkward I'd prefer to be in the quieter not the busiest part of the car park.

I don't get the mindset of having to be near the door at all.

Skylinehead

stimpson wrote: »

ac·ci·dent [ak-si-duhnt]
noun
1.
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.

Enlighten me on this mysterious magical force that causes you to crash into peoples cars "accidentally" when they don't have children then.

BostonB

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

I bet he meant it in a caring way because the majority of people here are getting close to a heart attack /killing spree/ diarrhoea attack because some people dare to park in the P&C spaces.

You get inconsiderate people all over, can't understand why either side have a hissy fit about it. Its not law, its a simple act of empathy for others. if you don't have empathy for others, nothing said here is going to give you that.

alchemist33

Plates wrote: »

Parents across the land must be shaking in their boots - "god help anyone" - really?

You make a choice to park in those spaces - why?

This thread has turned into a general discussion about common courtesy, respect and good old fashioned manners. Clearly they are values that we need a lot more people to embrace.

It turns out courtesy isn't quite as common as we might have believed.

tiny_penguin

stimpson wrote: »

ac·ci·dent [ak-si-duhnt]
noun
1.
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.

You are being pedantic now. Why did you use inverted commas around the word accident? It was to imply that it is not in fact an accident at all. You have also said that morally it is ok to do this as the person is committing in your eyes a worse moral offence. Stop backtracking now.

Our man in Havana

If I put up signs saying "Single men only park here" would you obey them?

BostonB

Can ye stop fighting over the dictionary.

BostonB

Our man in Havana wrote: »

If I put up signs saying "Single men only park here" would you obey them?

That might depend where there car park is....

stimpson

tiny_penguin wrote: »

You have also said that morally it is ok to do this as the person is committing in your eyes a worse moral offence. Stop backtracking now.

I didn't say it was OK. I said it was no big deal compared to people who need to show small kids who's boss to feel like a big man.

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

Ickle Magoo

Our man in Havana wrote: »

If I put up signs saying "Single men only park here" would you obey them?

You're dead right - stick it to the big man! Too much of this world is built on discrimination. What about me me me me meeeee, eh?

Stuff those single people with their weedy little baskets at the "express till" - I'm gonna go there with my big full shopping trolly, I'm not having them discriminating against me and giving them special treatment..what? Do they think I like waiting in a big queue or something?!

Those self-service tills? I'm going to stand there and block the queue until some member of staff comes and puts all the shopping through for me. Why should I have to put up with those signs and a shop trying to make some customers life a bit easier and their shopping experience a bit more pleasant - you're dead right joe, tis a disgrace so it is.

tiny_penguin

stimpson wrote: »

I didn't say it was OK. I said it was no big deal compared to people who need to show small kids who's boss to feel like a big man.

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

Ok well can you answer what was meant by the word accidently being in inverted commas - since you are so insistent that you some how manage to have legitimate accidents around certain cars and not around others.

Dave!

Our man in Havana wrote: »

If I put up signs saying "Single men only park here" would you obey them?

I would if it was a dogging site

stimpson

Skylinehead wrote: »

Enlighten me on this mysterious magical force that causes you to crash into peoples cars "accidentally" when they don't have children then.

If I enlightened you it would cease to be mysterious.

dark crystal

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Do I park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket/shopping centre?

Yes and god help anyone that takes issue with it. You're not privileged, nor disabled just because you have kids. You decided to have kids, it was your choice, so big deal and now get over yourself. I don't think a disabled person suddenly decided to become disabled. That's why I will always respect a disabled persons parking space. Your able bodied and you have a kid, so what? Parents managed long before the onset of this bullshít, quite laughable really for anyone to put parenthood on a par with having a disability.

So take that unleashed fury out on the supermarkets who designated them, not the people whose only crime seems to have been that great sin of giving birth.

Get over yourself indeed.

BostonB

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

You're dead right - stick it to the big man! Too much of this world is built on discrimination. What about me me me me meeeee, eh? ....

I mean what did the Romans ever....

..hang on I might be in the wrong thread...

BostonB

dark crystal wrote: »

So take that unleashed fury out on the supermarkets who designated them, not the people whose only crime seems to have been that great sin of giving birth.....

Can we organise a protest...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p05wm4IhEXQ/T_dA6yn4Z0I/AAAAAAAABxM/KcLy_ADFZJc/s1600/down-with-this-sort-of-thing.jpg

allibastor

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136555/Mother-watches-good-friend-police-chiefs-wife-runs-22-month-old-toddler.html


things like this are the reason shops and so forth have child parking spaces. not to make everything easier or some some moaning wnakers to fell all big for standing up to someone with kids. i would still use a parent space if it was away from the door but gave safe access and egress from a shop.

Skylinehead

stimpson wrote: »

If I enlightened you it would cease to be mysterious.

So yeah, you purposely hit other peoples cars. Hence illegal. I think we're done here.

dark crystal

BostonB wrote: »

Can we organise a protest...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p05wm4IhEXQ/T_dA6yn4Z0I/AAAAAAAABxM/KcLy_ADFZJc/s1600/down-with-this-sort-of-thing.jpg

Ah, I would, only some self entitled jerk-off has decided to park in the only 'single men only park here' spot, so I have to drive 30 seconds all the way round the car park to find a normal space.

Stupid single men ...Grrrrr.

allibastor

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Do I park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket/shopping centre?

Yes and god help anyone that takes issue with it. You're not privileged, nor disabled just because you have kids. You decided to have kids, it was your choice, so big deal and now get over yourself. I don't think a disabled person suddenly decided to become disabled. That's why I will always respect a disabled persons parking space. Your able bodied and you have a kid, so what? Parents managed long before the onset of this bullshít, quite laughable really for anyone to put parenthood on a par with having a disability.

do you know, i knew a girl who was left in a wheel chair because she jumped off a low tide pier and broke her back. was that a life choice on her part, as she was not forced to jump in? should she then not be allowed to use the space allocated for people who find it hard to get in and out of cars? i

i would love to hear your genius opinion on this matter. I think you miss the point on the whole thing don't you, its not for quick access, it is supposed to be for safer access, for both parents/children and for cars which do get damaged on being hit by car doors. god knows i have had it happen to me many times by fatsos getting into their cars with pushing the door open, so should the shop not endeavor to minimize this by helping a situation where they know there is a greater likely hood of doors being open wide

pontia

2 things spring to mind with that tragic case in florida,1,why was kid free in carpark to begin with,he was 22 months.an accident waiting to happen,2,51 yr woman driving suv,ive seen this type many times.best avoided if on foot or driving,she didint even realize she ran over kid

stimpson

Skylinehead wrote: »

So yeah, you purposely hit other peoples cars. Hence illegal.

That may be your opinion, but I don't think your interpretation of the law is sufficient to make that call.

BostonB

pontia wrote: »

2 things spring to mind with that tragic case in florida,1,why was kid free in carpark to begin with,he was 22 months.an accident waiting to happen,2,51 yr woman driving suv,ive seen this type many times.best avoided if on foot or driving,she didint even realize she ran over kid

You've seen this many times. Where do you park so I can avoid it.

Houdini has nothing on Kids for escaping in a split second.

Most people are not perfect and make mistakes. Such is the human condition.

BostonB

dark crystal wrote: »

Ah, I would, only some self entitled jerk-off has decided to park in the only 'single men only park here' spot, so I have to drive 30 seconds all the way round the car park to find a normal space.

Stupid single men ...Grrrrr.

Will we send Bear Grylls to help you across the car park?

allibastor

pontia wrote: »

2 things spring to mind with that tragic case in florida,1,why was kid free in carpark to begin with,he was 22 months.an accident waiting to happen,2,51 yr woman driving suv,ive seen this type many times.best avoided if on foot or driving,she didint even realize she ran over kid

yes, but it does highlight that every help is welcomed. how many times in life does a child pull from you and escape in the blink of an eye.

if its just me but i would not mind walking a minute out of my way on every occasion if i think it will keep one child safer on the road, or in a car park. thats just me though.

Skylinehead

stimpson wrote: »

That may be your opinion, but I don't think your interpretation of the law is sufficient to make that call.

There's no interpretation needed. If something is illegal it is forbidden to do it. I don't see why the courts or getting caught come into it. I don't know why I keep coming back to this argument, which is really, really stupid!

stimpson

Skylinehead wrote: »

There's no interpretation needed. If something is illegal it is forbidden to do it. I don't see why the courts or getting caught come into it. I don't know why I keep coming back to this argument, which is really, really stupid!

Like I said, it was an "accident"

tiny_penguin

stimpson wrote: »

Like I said, it was an "accident"

Do you understand how inverted commas are used when not depicting speech? What is the reason for accident being in inverted commas if it was in fact an accident. Just because you deny the fact it was malicious - does not change your actual intent. You can keep repeating it again and again but unless you are just throwing the inverted commas in for the sake of it then you really dont seem to understand the meaning of this.

At this stage you really come across as very foolish.

Son Of A Vidic

Prettyblack wrote: »

Would you take a trolley full of items to the "10 items or less isle" and expect to be served? Would you feel you are entitled to be served? If you went to the cinema and had your seat number blah, blah, blah.........

I addressed the issue raised by the OP and perhaps you should have the courtesy to stay on topic, or just start a new thread of your own.

Plates wrote: »

You make a choice to park in those spaces - why?

Read my post again and hopefully you'll see the answer to that rather unnecessary question.

allibastor wrote: »

do you know, i knew a girl who was left in a wheel chair because she jumped off a low tide pier and broke her back. was that a life choice on her part, as she was not forced to jump in? should she then not be allowed to use the space allocated for people who find it hard to get in and out of cars? i would love to hear your genius opinion on this matter.

My opinion on the matter? I already gave my opinion in my first post so what are you on about? Why would you even need to post that, if you had read this already...

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

You're not privileged, nor disabled just because you have kids. You decided to have kids, it was your choice, so big deal and now get over yourself. I don't think a disabled person suddenly decided to become disabled. That's why I will always respect a disabled person’s parking space.

Isn’t that pretty clear to understand?

allibastor wrote: »

I think you miss the point on the whole thing don't you

Man, there is so much irony in here today, but it’s entertaining nonetheless.

allibastor wrote: »

god knows i have had it happen to me many times by fatsos getting into their cars with pushing the door open

A revealing comment, which undoubtedly says a lot more about you than it does about people who are overweight. An overweight person might be thinking, “why couldn’t that gobshyte park correctly and allow some room for my door to open.”

stimpson

tiny_penguin wrote: »

Just because you deny the fact it was malicious - does not change your actual intent.

I don't think you can infer intent by my use of punctuation.

McGilla

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

The question: Do you park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket/shopping centre?

I am childless and have no qualms about parking in these myself and from looking at other people parking, it appears most don't either. However, in the 6 years of going to the same supermarket a few times per week, I have had an angry mother or two come ranting at me over me parking there. In response, I've offered to call the Gardai and have them come and sort it out, but they never seem to want to take up my offer

My reasoning: Having kids is a personal choice and good for you if you do it, however I'm not going to let someone else's personal choices infringe on me where possible. I look at the P&C spaces as being the same as a space marked for Porsche drivers i.e they can f*ck right off if they think I'm not going to park in a space near to the door that isn't allotted to those with disabilities.

Before someone brings it up, they're not the same as disabled spaces so don't go there. In fact, if you feel you having kids is a disability then you'd really want to take a long hard look at yourself.

On another note, why is it that they seem to only use pictures of a woman + child to mark these spaces? Bit unfair on Dads out there, is it not?

Anonymous poll added.

Wow, where to start?
OP you my friend are a GOBSH1TE!

I love the way you think the spaces are just there to make life easy on people who have made the radical lifestyle choice to have children.

You are so blinded by your own ignorance, that you can't see that these parking spaces are to protect the next generation, in what can be a very dangerous environment.

I am a parent, but I don't use these spots, as my child is only a year old, so I have to carry her into the shops.
My thinking is, I don't NEED this spot so I'll leave it for someone who does!
This may seems strange to you, but this is called consideration.

tiny_penguin

stimpson wrote: »

I don't think you can infer intent by my use of punctuation.

you have still not answered why you have used inverted commas. Do you not understand common usage for these and that intent can be inferred unless you clarify what you mean by their usage, if not the commonly know use for them.

Skylinehead

stimpson wrote: »

Like I said, it was an "accident"

What's with the quotation marks then?

Jame Gumb

For the many reasons referred to above, it's harder for someone with kids to go to the supermarket. Supermarkets have recognised this and provide a small number of spaces specifically for "Parents & Children". This is a progressive move.

However, certain people (let's call them ignorant insensitive inconsiderate sociopathic gobsh1tes) seem to have a problem with this. Why? Is there a deeper issue for these people? Do they subconsciously "hate" parents / families or are they jealous of them? Is it because they know that they will never have their own family because of their sexuality / unattractiveness / lack of personality / violent sociopathy?

The lack of manners, common decency and etiquette among the contributors advocating deliberate parking in such spaces is astonishing.

"Sod the post natally depressed post Caesarean sleep deprived mother with a screaming baby and a (naturally fuller) trolley...twas her choice to propagate the species!"

You're a disgrace, folks...this is not a grey issue...it's black and white...those of you who park in these spaces when you shouldn't are a disgrace.

Plates

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Read my post again and hopefully you'll see the answer to that rather unnecessary question.

I've read it 3 times now and still can't see why you decide to park in those spaces. All I see is a rant about how you think they're not necessary. Bit of irony there since it will appear that they're very popular and very necessary while they remain full of "rebels" like you.

Prettyblack

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I addressed the issue raised by the OP and perhaps you should have the courtesy to stay on topic, or just start a new thread of your own.

My point is completely on topic. I was making an analogy, to see how you react when faced with certain restrictions in what you can and can't do.

dark crystal

I wouldn't say people who deliberately park in these spaces are necessarily sociopathic...just incredibly immature and inconsiderate.

A hangover from the Celtic Tiger 'me me me' generation. If someone else seems to be afforded something they haven't got, they immediately want it too.

It's pretty interesting to see the hostility and indifference shown towards small children, when these people aren't overly adverse to throwing their toys out of the pram and screaming "Wah wah, I want, I want' themselves. In this case, something as petty as a parking space.

stimpson

tiny_penguin wrote: »

You have still not answered why you have used inverted commas. Do you not understand common usage for these? Do you understand that intent can be inferred unless you clarify what you mean by their usage? If not, then the commonly known use for them can be infered.

I see you have your own issues with punctuation.

CroatoanCat

I have no problem with parent and child parking spaces in general. As we have established, they are a discretionary perk, not a statutory entitlement. I'm sure they make life easier for parents of small children, which is a good thing.

However, amid all the denials of parent-entitlement in this thread, a post encompassing the very epitome of parent-entitlement has apparently slipped by unnoticed. For anybody who missed it, see this post from Allibastor, in direct response to medusa22:

allibastor wrote: »

I hope that someday, with your disability you don't need someones children to help make your life easier. we as a species need children, so trying to make life a little easier for those of us who have them should be welcomed. what if some kid invents a cure for what ever is wrong with you, would you be moaning then? seriously.

Here's a heads up, mate: your kid probably won't cure cystic fibrosis or any other chronic and life-shortening disease. In fact, statistically, your child (or you) is far more likely to suffer a disability than to make a medical breakthrough which benefits all mankind. But, hey, never mind about the disabled folk, because you're doing The Most Important Job in the World. I'll pass over the dubious claims about the world (current pop 7 billion and rising) needing more children, because there's just no point.

I realise that most parents who have posted in this thread do not display this level of entitlement, nor anything near it. But in a discussion in which there is much pleading for courtesy towards and consideration for others, I am genuinely (genuinely) baffled that such an odious, entitled attack on another poster has apparently gone unnoticed.