Rights of Landlord

odds_on

RATM wrote: »

Hang on a sec, isn't there a bunch of conditions under which a landlord can terminate a lease ? With one of them being that you are making the property of use to yourself or a family member ? I'm pretty sure that stands , all you'd have to do is send them a registered letter saying you are terminating the lease within 28 days, referencing the piece of law that permits you to do so.

Then either move back in yourself for a bit or let a family member do so. I don't think the law stipulates any minimum amount of time a family member has to occupy it before it is rented on the private market again.

I might be missing something in all this but I did once have to move out of an apartment after 3.5 years continuous stay because the landlord son was beginning university and was taking it over for himself. I was annoyed as I'd always paid the rent on time and kept the place well. But the rules came down on the side of my landlord so I had to move on, despite not wanting to :mad:

These conditions only apply to a Part 4 tenancy, where as, this tenancy is, I believe, it is a fixed term.

No matter what the OP does legally, he is still going to be well out of pocket - rent arrears (increasing by the day) and possibly a ransacked house.

If a tenant does not move out, even when "ordered" to do so by the PRTB, I believe (correct me if i am wrong), it requires a court order before she can be forced out.

chickensoup

I'm afraid all the doomsayers here are correct.

Reporting her to welfare won't matter .. The rent payment gets stopped to me .. She won't be out of pocket and will have the free accomadation until I can get a sheriff involved.

Changing the locks is seen as forcefully removing second from their home .. It does not matter if they are paying for that home or not.

murphaph

odds_on wrote: »

If a tenant does not move out, even when "ordered" to do so by the PRTB, I believe (correct me if i am wrong), it requires a court order before she can be forced out.

Correct. The PRTB have no legal authority to remove her or to order her to be removed. They will not run to get an injunction on your behalf if she starts wrecking the place either and certainly not for "mere" non-payment of that pesky rent.

The tenancy, assuming she stays put, exists until such time as a judge orders that it is legally at an end and gives the landlord an order for possession.

Our solicitor and barrister told us that the set up in Ireland in this day and age is a throwback to independence when (mostly) absentee landlords were seen as a great evil and the laws began to change (dramatically) in the tenants favour. It has never really balanced out and remains heavily lopsided to this day.

We've resolved that if ever we have a non-paying commercial tenant again that we will move to take back the premises ourselves within the month to limit our losses. The tenant can then sue us if they want-we feel it'll work out cheaper even if they do (commercial tenants have no PRTB to stump up the cash for their legal actions-they have to put the hand in the pocket first and this is enough, we believe, to prevent most from bothering).

the_syco

Boombastic wrote: »

Report her for being a 'lone parent' but having a partner stay & non receipt of rent allowance

This, for two reasons; so she doesn't get any rent allowance, and so any "lone parent" benefits will also hopefully get cut.

Then get the sheriff involved and get her evicted.

chickensoup

the_syco wrote: »

Then get the sheriff involved and get her evicted.

Unfortunatly its not as simple as that, before you can get the sheriff involved you need to:

- Lodge a dispute with the PRTB
- Wait about 8 months to get a hearing
- Wait about 6 weeks for a determination order
- Then file a civil action in the courts
- Sell probably my first and second born to pay legal costs
- Get sheriff
- Send tenant on to another unfortunate landlord for more freeloading

murphaph

chickensoup wrote: »

Unfortunatly its not as simple as that, before you can get the sheriff involved you need to:

- Lodge a dispute with the PRTB
- Wait about 8 months to get a hearing
- Wait about 6 weeks for a determination order
- Then file a civil action in the courts
- Sell probably my first and second born to pay legal costs
- Get sheriff
- Send tenant on to another unfortunate landlord for more freeloading

Sad but completely true. The court costs alone will run to at least 5k. With lost rent and so on the OP could be out of pocket to the tune of 25k.

It's not a level playing field. If I run a shop and someone steals a mars bar I can legally detain them until the Guards arrive, they are taken away and prosecuted by the DPP. If someone steals from you as an overholding tenant, nobody steps in on your behalf. Both cases are businesses.

In a state that refuses to build enough social housing and is thus dependent on private landlords to house a large number of its citizens, those landlords should be afforded fair protection under the law as any other business.

BostonB

StillWaters wrote: »

...but a residential tenant is likely to leave after a few days of no power and move onto the next poor LL.

One of our tenants stayed I think 3 weeks or more.

borderlinemeath

I would invoke the clause that says you or a family member are moving back in. And if all possible to do that - move back in or get a family member to do it on your behalf and if the freeloaders won't move out - let them all live together for a few days.

I have 2 nephews that would do this for me for a small fee, they're both over 6ft 5 and not to be messed with.:) I guarantee a day or two with them in the house playing their guitars and drums will disrupt the pleasurable atmosphere of any freeloading tenant.

martomcg

I think considering all mentioned here, the best option would be to have yourself or some family/friend move into the gaf free of charge and make life difficult for the current tenants until they move on of their own accord.

murphaph

I think that would be the least worst option and the one I would take if at all possible (not easy if you work etc.). I don't think (but I'm not a lawyer!) that you can be penalised 10k per person for simply moving in with them as they have not been evicted. They have lost the peaceful enjoyment of the property however.

No solicitor will advise this, but the only group who always win in these situations is the legal profession.

mikemac1

chickensoup wrote: »

I am aware of that 7 day notice for anti-social behavior, however, the complaint has to be in writing and unfortunately the people making the complaint are not willing to put their names to any paperwork for fear of any potential reprisal from the individual concerned.

I was going to suggest the 7 day notice too
That's understandable if people won't go forward

Do you have a community garda?
If 3 or 4 or 5 of your neighbours all lodged complaints the same evening then there is a record and realy, these wasters in your house can't do anything to so many people

It's a lot to ask of reluctant neighbours.
Maybe there would be some way you can ask for their help. Not 1 house but as many as you can

murphaph

mikemac1 wrote: »

I was going to suggest the 7 day notice too
That's understandable if people won't go forward

Do you have a community garda?
If 3 or 4 or 5 of your neighbours all lodged complaints the same evening then there is a record and realy, these wasters in your house can't do anything to so many people

It's a lot to ask of reluctant neighbours.
Maybe there would be some way you can ask for their help. Not 1 house but as many as you can

I'd be less understanding of these neighbours. These are the same neighbours that are hassling the OP to "get it sorted" presumably (and thereby putting even more pressure on the OP). If they aren't prepared to stand up for themselves and make a statement of anti-social behaviour then I don't see why everything should fall on the OP. The OP has enough stress to deal with without the (silent) neighbours pestering them the whole time.

Graces7

Wondering what the Councils do when tenants default on rent? They maybe have more efficient ways than this?

Oral Surgeon

Sorry to hear op,
Time to get inventive and make it really difficult for them to live there...

If getting RA, they might be also in receipt of other benefits, these may not be allowed with the boyfriend living there.
I would get evidence that he is living there, photos of his car at night with newspapers to date it and photos of him coming and going.

If they are total spongers then it is likely that the car is not taxed/ insured/ nct, check it and report it if so....

Do you have management company enforced clamping? If so, suspend your payments and point out the tennants car to them for clamping.... Or buy a clamp and do it yourself....

Relabel your gas meter as another house number and turn the cut off valve some night....

Thats all I can think of....

miller50841

Hi OP is there a garage on the property or a front garden?
If a front garden move a caravan or van into it and if a garage move into that and work on cars load the place up making it very difficult for them.


Did you on the contract/lease put down that you need to be able to inspect the property if so contact them and tell them you are going to do so.
Also just say there is work that needs to be carried out and make something up and send people over to do this work(made up work or jobs need doing)
Pull up floor boards or that even say example place needs to be rewired

I moved into an appartment recently which had been vacated by a scum bag who was living on social because he had court order for his 2 kids to stay 1 night a week so got to live in a 2 bed. The LLord was able to get him out by going to the council about his anti social behaviour. He caused damage to gates and really was a pain on neighbours late night parties till 9-10am people jumping gates and washing machine and dishwasher on late/early morning.

I hope you get the better of them and you don't lose much.
It really annoys me to see a decent person like yourself getting screwed over.

BostonB

Do ye release a lot of these fantasy solutions won't work, they won't give you access, and you get hit with a fine if you let yourself in.

That said you have to offset the cost of a possible fine vs the loss of income and any damage and extra cleaning costs incurred. Do the maths basically.

Borderfox

Had to give one guy 84 days notice to leave as nobody would live with him. I was even lucky to get him out.

Any friends that are Garda?

martomcg

I know this might sound daft OP but considering all the legalities and unrealistic scenario's, etc and you saying you'd just give up the house as its causing so much hassle....

Is it possible you'd consider selling the place? Or even 'fake' sell the place? i.e get an estate agent to list it and put up a for sale sign. Tell the current tenants you cant afford to keep the house, etc and ask them to have it in decent shape for viewings.

Then simply unlist the house and tell the occupants it's been sold (slap sold on the sign) and tell them they have xxx amount of time to vacate before the new owners take over occupation (like 2 months is typical for mortgage approval).

That way your only expense is max 2 months short/missing rent and the cost of listing with an estate agent (not sure about this figure but cant be much)

BostonB

martomcg wrote: »

... tell them they have xxx amount of time to vacate before the new owners take over occupation (like 2 months is typical for mortgage approval...

They can still just ignore the LL.

chickensoup

BostonB wrote: »

They can still just ignore the LL.

that is the nub of the problem.

The reality is that if the tenant does not want to move they don't have to ... ..

miller50841

If this is the case and the LL has no rights then why is anyone paying rent.
I couldn't imagine doing it but maye I am nuts paying big money on rent(dead money)
There has to be some way of dealing with them.
If it were me as said before I would move into the garden.
Go around late at night and do knick knack.
Pay some little s**t to smash your windows ;-)Joke so don't throw me out mod

gaz wac

What about telling her, gas/plumber will be in to service unit/pipes. Get a friend to put a plate of fish/prawns under the floorboards in her room...then ignore EVERY call from letting agent for a couple of weeks or just say "smells are not my problem"...after a while they would just leave and you throw away the fish ?

Good luck with it

eyescreamcone

Give them notice that you or a relative is moving in.
If they don't move evict them yourself.
If they take a case (big if) and you get fined - so be it.
Only a judge can decide if you act illegally.

You could get the electricity changed into your name as the contract has terminated. And have it turned off on them.

Yawns

This is the problem with a lot of these scenarios. "Let the judge decide if you acted illegally"

The judge will decide you acted illegally and thus direct you to compensate this "poor victim".

I really feel for you OP as it is a nightmare for landlords. However if you let yourself in uninvited or try to move people in to live with them, you had best be prepared to pay compensation. This person sounds like they know how the system works.

You can't go in uninvited, you can't change locks, you can't have utilities cut off. It's a pain in the ass. I can see why some people would offer some cash to get them to move. It's an absolute joke.

You can't even sell the house and tell them to get out. You would have to sell it with sitting tenants. We also can't advocate anything illegal here on boards.

BostonB

miller50841 wrote: »

If this is the case and the LL has no rights...

Isn't that the title of the thread. Thats why people are complaining about it.

miller50841 wrote: »

then why is anyone paying rent....

The vast majority of tenants are honest.

the_syco

chickensoup wrote: »

I don't trust the letting agent one bit, I get this feeling he is more concerned about the tenant as he had looked after a previous tenancy for her. He is trying to convince me to withdraw the 28 day notice as it 'can't really be enforced'

Get rid of the letting agent for not doing his job, at the very least.

chickensoup

the_syco wrote: »

Get rid of the letting agent for not doing his job, at the very least.

the letting agent is more or less defunct at the moment, he aint getting paid a penny either as his fee is a percentage of the rent !

I am just using him as I don't want the tenant (or their partner) to know my current address for when things might get even nastier. The partner is that sort of a bloke

actually to put it in perspective my brother has left his side-by-side in my house for the last few weeks just incase.

Zamboni

chickensoup wrote: »

the letting agent is more or less defunct at the moment, he aint getting paid a penny either as his fee is a percentage of the rent !

I am just using him as I don't want the tenant (or their partner) to know my current address for when things might get even nastier. The partner is that sort of a bloke

actually to put it in perspective my brother has left his side-by-side in my house for the last few weeks just incase.

So you rented a house to an ethnic minority welfare tenant who allows her partner (not on the lease) to stay in the house, who won't pay rent or won't leave a property that you cannot sell, and you now keep a shotgun in your house and clearly live in some form of fear.
What is this thread for exactly?
It is quite clear that you have two routes. Legal and illegal. Both involve costs but only one offers a retention of control over the situation.
What are you going to do?

BostonB

Isn't it obvious?

Post on the internet.

chickensoup

actually the point of my original post was more of a rant that even when landlords play by the rules they have no protection in law.

This is a public website and any thoughts of illegal activity I have will not be posted here, but believe me I will not be waiting 12 months to get my house back.