Rights of Landlord

murphaph

If a tenant had been willing and able to pay the rent with their own earned money it is highly unlikely that they would start pocketing the RS and not paying their rent. Becoming unemployed etc. doesn't turn a good tenant into a thief. I would have no hesitation continuing a tenancy in these circumstances.

Graces7

murphaph wrote: »

If a tenant had been willing and able to pay the rent with their own earned money it is highly unlikely that they would start pocketing the RS and not paying their rent. Becoming unemployed etc. doesn't turn a good tenant into a thief. I would have no hesitation continuing a tenancy in these circumstances.

Exactly so and under what clause of Tenancy Law could a ll evict a tenant in these circumstances anyway?

None of the leases I had before I was on RA had any such proviso in them.

StillWaters

They cannot evict a tenant for becoming unemployed. They can refuse to sign the RA form, and evict for non payment of rent.

BostonB

Exactly.

fasttalkerchat

StillWaters wrote: »

They cannot evict a tenant for becoming unemployed. They can refuse to sign the RA form, and evict for non payment of rent.

Oh? But if a landlord refuses to accept rent he cannot legally evict a tenant for non-payment. Would this not be the case here?

BostonB

Hes not refusing rent by not signing the form though. Theres no law that he has to sign the form or accept ra.

There is a law that the tenant has to pay the rent on time though.

Yawns

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Oh? But if a landlord refuses to accept rent he cannot legally evict a tenant for non-payment. Would this not be the case here?

But he wouldn't be refusing to accept rent. He could refuse to sign a form in order for the tenant to get RA. The tenant would need to fund the rent themselves either way. However if a LL were to refuse and a tenant could not pay the rent the most likely situation is the tenant moves out. Even tho it's a breach of contract I'd imagine both parties would mutually agree to terminate it.

Tho as said above if a good tenant finds himself unemployed, it doesn't automatically make him a bad tenant. The only situation where a LL would refuse to sign a form if the tenant lost a job is one where the LL doesn't really want the tenant in there anymore. Be it a bad tenant who was late with rent, a complainer or the LL wants to rent to someone else ( family member etc )

Graces7

BostonB wrote: »

Hes not refusing rent by not signing the form though. Theres no law that he has to sign the form or accept ra.

There is a law that the tenant has to pay the rent on time though.

Kicking a man when he is down... :rolleyes:

fasttalkerchat

Yawns wrote: »

But he wouldn't be refusing to accept rent. He could refuse to sign a form in order for the tenant to get RA. The tenant would need to fund the rent themselves either way. However if a LL were to refuse and a tenant could not pay the rent the most likely situation is the tenant moves out. Even tho it's a breach of contract I'd imagine both parties would mutually agree to terminate it.

Tho as said above if a good tenant finds himself unemployed, it doesn't automatically make him a bad tenant. The only situation where a LL would refuse to sign a form if the tenant lost a job is one where the LL doesn't really want the tenant in there anymore. Be it a bad tenant who was late with rent, a complainer or the LL wants to rent to someone else ( family member etc )

A lazy LL would call me a complainer. If the heating or electricity stops working I would expect someone to be sent out within a few hours.
If I lost my job and the LL refused to sign the paperwork for him to get his money I would view it in the same way as him refusing to show up when I arranged to meet him to pay rent.
I certainly wouldn't move out because he isn't signing a form for HIS money!

the_syco

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't move out because he isn't signing a form for HIS money!

So you wouldn't move out if you couldn't afford the rent?

fasttalkerchat

the_syco wrote: »

So you wouldn't move out if you couldn't afford the rent?

If I'm entitled to support from the government until I can find a job I would take that support.
If the LL refuses to sign the form that's not reasonable IMO.

athtrasna

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If I'm entitled to support from the government until I can find a job I would take that support.
If the LL refuses to sign the form that's not reasonable IMO.

it is reasonable if you can't pay the month's difference. As a private tenant you pay the rent for the month in advance, RA is paid in arrears. If your rent is due on the first of the month, your LL would be down a month's rent which realistically would be a month's mortgage payment (or part of it), which is a position that not all landlords can afford to be in.

cgarrad

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If I lost my job and the LL refused to sign the paperwork for him to get his money I would view it in the same way as him refusing to show up when I arranged to meet him to pay rent.
I certainly wouldn't move out because he isn't signing a form for HIS money!

Unlikely he could sign it as the rates are so low now. Not many places qualify.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html#l62fd2

Rent Supplement and lease agreements
If, when your Rent Supplement claim is reviewed, the rent you pay is above the relevant limit and your lease is not due for renewal, you will be expected to re-negotiate your rent with your landlord. If the landlord insists that the terms of the current lease are not negotiable and does not reduce the rent to the new limits the DSP representative will discuss your options with you. These may include seeking other accommodation. If this occurs you will continue to be paid Rent Supplement for a reasonable period of time while you secure new accommodation.

Badhb

chickensoup wrote: »

I am hoping for a little advise here.

I am an accidental landlord (had to rent out my house as I couldn't sell it when I needed a bigger house).

I decided to enlist the services of a letting agent in the belief that paying someone to manage the property would mean I would have the minimum of headaches and in essence have someone deal with the problems on my behalf.

the situation I find myself in now is becoming painful. The letting agent got a tenant in who was in receipt of social welfare, which was due to be paid to us directly along with a top up from the tenant herself.

From the start of the tenancy we have had problems, even though the tenant is a 'lone parent' her partner has been there since day one, which she has flat out denied is the case, despite concrete evidence from the neighbors. This might not be a problem for many landlords how ever, the partner would most definitely not be someone who I would ever consider letting a property to. The lease states quite clearly that anyone residing at the address must be named on the lease and the landlord notified in writing should there be changes.

Anyway, that aside, this 'visitor' has attracted complaints from the neighbors for antisocial behavior etc ... at this stage I am getting calls and texts from my former neighbors on a weekly basis - my tenants are making life hell for my neighbors.

The tenant also caused delays with the social welfare that is resulting in a delay in us getting paid .. in effect we have not received a single payment from them since the tenancy commenced.

To date we have had to get the letting agent to issue:

1 - Letter reminding the tenant that all residents must be named on the lease
2 - Warning as to a specific incident of anti-social behavior
3 - 14 day notice of arrears (which has expired and still no payment)
4 - Hand delivered notice of termination -28days (after the 14 day notice)

My problem is that the letting agent has more or less told me there is nothing I can do. The tenant will in his words 'dig her heels in' and refuse to move.

It apparently takes 8 months or so to get a hearing with the PRTB and another 6 weeks for a determination order and god know how long after that to actually get my house back.

I don't trust the letting agent one bit, I get this feeling he is more concerned about the tenant as he had looked after a previous tenancy for her. He is trying to convince me to withdraw the 28 day notice as it 'can't really be enforced'

I am at my wits end wondering what protection there is for landlords in this country .. I have done everything by the book yet I have to walk on egg shells for the fear of being taken to the cleaners by a tenant who won't play by any rules.

If they refuse to leave, I could be out of pocket for 12 months while someone else lives off me.

At this stage I would prefer to give the house to charity rather than have a chancer take me for a ride on it.

Has anyone any experience as to how situations like this actually play out? Am I up the creek with out a paddle .....

So, what part of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 was it is exactly that you missed out when making this decision to become an "accidental landlord"?

You seem to refuse responsibility that you are a landlord.
Forget about letting agents. They too often know less about the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, than they should. Nonetheless, the responsibility lies on you.
Renting out property that you own is not a quick fix earner. Understand the law. Inform yourself. Many, many landlords have good longterm tenancies with Rent Supplement tenants. It is not suprisinging that those who have not a clue of the legislation get in problems with dodgy tenants.

fasttalkerchat

athtrasna wrote: »

it is reasonable if you can't pay the month's difference. As a private tenant you pay the rent for the month in advance, RA is paid in arrears. If your rent is due on the first of the month, your LL would be down a month's rent which realistically would be a month's mortgage payment (or part of it), which is a position that not all landlords can afford to be in.

Of course that is a different matter. Assuming that he will get his full money on time I can't see how he can blame me if he refuses to sign a form to get the money.
What I was wondering is would he have a legal right to evict a tenant due to this change in circumstances?

BostonB

The legislation doesn't help you with dodgy tenants.

Badhb

BostonB wrote: »

The legislation doesn't help you with dodgy tenants.

Actually it does.

There are specific rights and obligations on tenants and landlords in the legislation.

The problem arises when landlords do not have a clue about said legislation or worse, assume a letting agency does.

BostonB

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Of course that is a different matter. Assuming that he will get his full money on time I can't see how he can blame me if he refuses to sign a form to get the money.
What I was wondering is would he have a legal right to evict a tenant due to this change in circumstances?

The tenant legally has to pay the rent or they can be legally evicted, yes.

Consider though, you want the LL to stick to the letter of the law, while breaking it yourself by not paying rent. Hypothetically speaking.

But while I'm sure you'd get some people who prefer to lose a tenant RA, most sensible LL would keep a good tenant regardless of RA.

BostonB

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If I'm entitled to support from the government until I can find a job I would take that support.
If the LL refuses to sign the form that's not reasonable IMO.

The problem is the Govt has off loaded the issue of providing social housing on to private LL's. The system they use to do this is flawed. Thats the Govts fault not the LL's.

BostonB

Badhb wrote: »

Actually it does.

There are specific rights and obligations on tenants and landlords in the legislation.

The problem arises when landlords do not have a clue about said legislation or worse, assume a letting agency does.

Its does in theory on paper but not in the real world.

In the real word the system doesn't work because its too slow.

Badhb

BostonB wrote: »

Its does in theory on paper but not in the real world.

In the real word the system doesn't work because its too slow.

So, what are you suggesting as the alternative?

BostonB

Some form of 3rd party bond, as I said before.

Badhb

BostonB wrote: »

Some form of 3rd party bond, as I said before.

A deposit retention scheme?

BostonB

Here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79817059&postcount=74

Badhb

BostonB wrote: »

Here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79817059&postcount=74

Okay, we are on the same page then BostonB, in regards to that,
nonetheless with this OP look to my original post, in regards to his alleged "accidental landlord" claims. Cannot find way to link post just to say page 7 towards end

the_syco

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Of course that is a different matter. Assuming that he will get his full money on time I can't see how he can blame me if he refuses to sign a form to get the money.

You pay rent in advance, you get RA in arrears, so by signing the form, he'll get the rent a month late every month? Not his problem; it's yours.

Badhb

the_syco wrote: »

You pay rent in advance, you get RA in arrears, so by signing the form, he'll get the rent a month late every month? Not his problem; it's yours.

Most rent supplement tenants who are smart, sort that that out with the start of their tenancy. Rent arrears are rent arrears.

Most rs tenants sort that out fairly quick, if not, that is a problem is with the tenant not the people who are in receipt of rent supplement and never be in rent arrears.

BostonB

Badhb wrote: »

Okay, we are on the same page then BostonB, in regards to that,
nonetheless with this OP look to my original post, in regards to his alleged "accidental landlord" claims. Cannot find way to link post just to say page 7 towards end

Sorry I don't get your point at all. How does knowing the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 backwards help in anyway with difficult tenants. Lots of people fall into being a LL.

Though I do agree that many people underestimate the amount of work it may require and that its a business, not a hobby.

Badhb

BostonB wrote: »

Sorry I don't get your point at all. How does knowing the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 backwards help in anyway with difficult tenants. Lots of people fall into being a LL.

Though I do agree that many people underestimate the amount of work it may require and that its a business, not a hobby.

Well, I do not know what I can say to that to that other than common sense?

Engage in any area of business without knowing the relevant legislation? Good sense or not?
Knowing exactly what are tenants and landlords obligations and rights under the legislation would be the obvious way to know how to deal with difficult tenants? No?

There are no safe guards nor guarantees sure, but someone claiming to be an 'accidental landord' garners no sympathy unless he or she complys with the legislation under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, and any pretence of not not knowing how the law works is his or her problem.

You are saying that legislation is not sufficient, Boston B. Then do something about it.

Badhb

Yeah excuse all the bold formatting getting too late at night to figure out how to organise it all uniform