Galway road projects confirmed

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Indeed, O'Connors had a shop beside Ryans (River Island now I think) that had to move to the "Incredible Planet" ( later dubbed the invisible planet after Curry's built beside it and effectively put O'Connors and Powerworld out of business).

Might explain why RO'C had so much time on his hands to fight a rearguard action against the removal of roundabouts.

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

Indeed, O'Connors had a shop beside Ryans (River Island now I think) that had to move to the "Incredible Planet" ( later dubbed the invisible planet after Curry's built beside it and effectively put O'Connors and Powerworld out of business).

O Connors had sold out to a shower called Electricworld (IIRC) by then. They are still in business up on the Seán Mulvoy road but no longer box shifting.

I notice that the cycle lanes in Galway are too narrow to allow one to "sustainably" haul that new washing machine home after purchase ...perhaps that egregious lack of planning is what did for those shops. You know me Anto and you know I mean it when I say 'down with that sort of thing' .

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Link/quote?

It's quite simple: by stating you think it's unnecessary, you think it's too big (whether or not you wish to admit it,despite the denials that will spew forth.)

But since you're going to disagree with that:

You believe that Galway already has a bypass or you wouldn't have quoted the report about BNT - therefore we don't need another one.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056390627

Almost every argument you against the bypass make can be summarised as one or more of it's not needed because we can:
a) provision buslanes
b) cycle
c) walk
d) stop people living in the country side
e) it's (only?) the developers and politicians that really want to see it built
f) the 4km radius fallacy

Meanwhile you totally ignore the fact that since the QB was built:

• The population of the city & environs has roughly doubled
• Less than half the population of the city are from Galway city/county
• Business are being attracted to Galway, re-enforcing the population growth - which the city on its own can't handle
• Employment in Co. Galway has switched from mostly rural/farming to mostly urban - office/factory/services based
• Pedestrianisation has made the city centre unaccessible to certain types of business
• O'Briens Bridge has more or less closed to westbound traffic (due to the Pedestrianisation) - making it harder to get across the Corrib

Mrs OBumble

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I see you ignored the invitation in this thread to suggest some useful ideas for the road space going forward and dragged up this one here up. Abset a few key facts as I would expect.



No SOONER was this road finished in the 1980s than the City Centre was then PEDESTRIANISED thereby DISPLACING many CITY CENTRE businesses to the Liosbán. Even Kennys Bookshop ended up there FFS.

The 'significant growth' referred to was caused by this DISPLACEMENT not by THE SHAGGIN ROAD ITSELF!!!!!!!!

The SOLUTION = REVERSE THIS PEDESTRIANISATION MADNESS!!!!

I'm sorry, but I don't see how pedestrianisation forced businesses to move.

Increased rents, yes. Poor quality of inner city building stock, yes. But providing better pedestrian access???

If you buy a washing machine, then you're not going to be transporting it home in your car: it will be delivered (usually from a warehouse, not from the retail shop where you handed over your money) by truck.

And Kennys bookshop didn't move the last of their operations to Liosban until sometime after 2007, so if the pedestrianisation was done in the 1990s even, I don't see the causation.

Iwannahurl

Sponge Bob wrote: »

O Connors had sold out to a shower called Electricworld (IIRC) by then. They are still in business up on the Seán Mulvoy road but no longer box shifting.

I notice that the cycle lanes in Galway are too narrow to allow one to "sustainably" haul that new washing machine home after purchase ...perhaps that egregious lack of planning is what did for those shops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know me Anto and you know I mean it when I say DOWN WITH THAT SORT OF THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

FYP.

I'm glad you blamed the substandard cycle lanes and not the mode of transport.




Better still, combine the two:




On a more local and practical note, do you routinely drive a vehicle large enough to transport a washing machine?

Regardless of the current standard of roads infrastructure in and around the city, my car is certainly not capable of transporting such an item.

If I was to buy a new one, I might try to introduce the retailer to the concept (a novel one locally, it seems) of "delivery".

It works like this: a retailer selling large items such as washing machines either keeps a van or truck, or hires someone else with a van or truck, for the purpose of "delivering" said large item to the customer's home. This means the customer can visit the store in person using a suitable mode of travel, or perhaps even stay at home and use the "telephone" or "internet" and a "credit or debit card", to purchase the large item and have it transported to their house, whether that be a home in the suburbs or even an executive-style hacienda-type rural retreat with sweeping views of the local bog and the "main" road.

It's kind of like "public transport", but for washing machines and other bulky goods. You never know, it might yet catch on here.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

It's quite simple: by stating you think it's unnecessary, you think it's too big (whether or not you wish to admit it,despite the denials that will spew forth.)

You believe that Galway already has a bypass or you wouldn't have quoted the report about BNT - therefore we don't need another one.

It's even simpler than that: cop yourself on and don't put words in my mouth. It's a lazy and dishonest style of debate, to say the least of it, and one that you have resorted to more than once in this forum.

Links or quotes please, to where I made such statements. Specific posts, or GTFO.




.

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I don't see how pedestrianisation forced businesses to move.

Increased rents, yes. Poor quality of inner city building stock, yes. But providing better pedestrian access???

If you buy a washing machine, then you're not going to be transporting it home in your car: it will be delivered (usually from a warehouse, not from the retail shop where you handed over your money) by truck.

O'Connors also sold tv's, hi-fis (god, I'm old enough to remember those), etc, stuff you can bring in a car. Hell I have brought washing machines home in a car (easier with a hatch than a 4 door).

They moved out of Shop St when the pedestrianisation plans were announced

JustMary wrote: »

And Kennys bookshop didn't move the last of their operations to Liosban until sometime after 2007, so if the pedestrianisation was done in the 1990s even, I don't see the causation.

The bindery and a lot of other operations (e.g warehouse and mail ordering) were long gone out of town at that stage. I got stuff bound there in the early 2000's (can't remember exactly when).

There also McDonaghs - who moved their operations from Merchants Rd to Ballybane (definitely not because of rents).

Hynes (builders providers iirc) had some kind of operation down there was well (now a car park).

MJ Burkes floorcoverings moved from Eyre St beside the Hole in the Wall pub to the Sean Mulvoy Rd.

Carrs Pains moved out of Supermacs on Cross St.

Christ, I'm getting nostalgic now, I wonder what else will this dredge up.

Unrealistic

antoobrien wrote: »

There also McDonaghs - who moved their operations from Merchants Rd to Ballybane (definitely not because of rents)

Maybe not a direct case of their rents being increased so they had to move somewhere cheaper but they did move because of rents nevertheless. Increased rents meant they space they were using on Merchants Road was worth a fortune if redeveloped and let to paying tenants so that's what they did.

antoobrien

Unrealistic wrote: »

Maybe not a direct case of their rents being increased so they had to move somewhere cheaper but they did move because of rents nevertheless. Increased rents meant they space they were using on Merchants Road was worth a fortune if redeveloped and let to paying tenants so that's what they did.

They owned it, they didn't have to move because of the costs of rent.They moved it because of space (not available to them) and as you said the potential for redevlopment.

Btb (not aimed at you) in case anybody is not aware the family that owns McDonaghs are one of the richest families in Galway (no it's not supermacs).

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It's even simpler than that: cop yourself on and don't put words in my mouth. It's a lazy and dishonest style of debate, to say the least of it, and one that you have resorted to more than once in this forum.

Links or quotes please, to where I made such statements. Specific posts, or GTFO.




.

Logic - if something is not necessary, it's automatically too big. Yes or no?

Therefore it's fair to say if you believe it's not necessary, therefore by default you believe it's too big (don't argue this - it's unbecoming, argue the point above).

I don't want this to turn into a debate on the merits of the inexactness of the English language and how what we say is not important but what other people think we said, so tell me what exactly you want me to link.

Btw what's with the wasting screen space with the whitespace at the end of each message?

?Cee?view

antoobrien wrote: »

Btb (not aimed at you) in case anybody is not aware the family that owns McDonaghs are one of the richest families in Galway Ireland (no it's not supermacs).

FYP

Sponge Bob

Anyway, back to the good news.

Other than one planned ecoloony excursion to Europe, one that looks likely to end up with a thumbs up for the eastern section of the Bypass followed by construction starting around 2014, the two main Galway road projects are moving on.

Other necessary but smaller road projects are still stuck in the pipeline. They include.

1. Widening of the N67 to Kinvara (and the Kinvara bypass)
2. Claregalway local Bypass.
3. Moycullen Bypass
4. New R336 from Glenlo Abbey to Knocknacarra/Cois Fharraige/Casla.
5. N59 Oughterard - Clifden
6. N84 Luimnagh ( the really crap bends between Clonboo and Headford)
7. The Milltown Ballindine N17 'emergency works' .
8. The Barna Bypass
9. The Clarinbridge Bypass.

We will still need to keep the pressure up to ensure that these necessary road projects are not dropped nor forgotten. Some of these roads are lethally bad and these are key parts of Galways infrastructural hinterland.

beeintheknow

Claregalway and Clarinbridge are being bypassed by the very road that this thread is about.

Sponge Bob

They will BOTH need local bypasses as well.

beeintheknow

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They will BOTH need local bypasses as well.

Why? What are you basing that on?

Sponge Bob

beeintheknow wrote: »

Why? What are you basing that on?

Much of the south and north Galway commuter traffic will not use the motorway...it will be too long. Claregalway and Clarinbridge will still be congested and will require a something small with roundabouts to bypass them locally.

beeintheknow

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Much of the south and north Galway commuter traffic will not use the motorway...it will be too long. Claregalway and Clarinbridge will still be congested and will require a something small with roundabouts to bypass them locally.

What is your assertion based on?

Surely everything the far side of Tuam travelling into Galway and anything that was previously going from Cork/Limerick etc to the North will now be on the motorway? This will have a major impact on Claregalway.

If this does go ahead, as now looks likely, there will never be another bypass of Claregalway. This is it.

Sponge Bob

Not everything, no. There will be No junction Tuam Road <> Galway Bypass so a Dunmore - Parkmore journey would be either:

1. As now Dunmore Tuam Claregalway Parkmore

or

2. Dunmore Tuam Lackagh Athenry Doughiska Parkmore.

Elsewhere

Someone coming from Kilcolgan would have to travel 2 miles out to Kiltiernan to go to Athenry to get to Doughiska ..by Motorway. Around twice the length of the current road. Kilcolgan - Doughiska. They will travel the old road too.

The motorway, built too far east for commuter traffic but ideally placed for long distance north south traffic, will not 'sort out' Clarinbridge and Claregalway which will need their own bypasses still. Way it is.

Castlebar - Limerick and Sligo - Cork will be a doddle though.

beeintheknow

How much traffic, percentage wise, do you see being removed from Claregalway by this road?

And there is a junction of new road-Tuam road on the Claregalway side of Tuam.

Sponge Bob

I'd say roughly half will divert to the motorway.

Around 22k vehicles move through Claregalway every day ( 14-15k to/from Tuam direction and 6-7k from Roscommon direction) and the road capacity in Claregalway (comfortably) is around 5-6k before the congestion and smell takes its toll on the locals.

Don't forget all the jam dodgers scuttling along narrow boreens/bridges around Cregmore either AND don't forget you can get Motorway Tuam - Lackagh and then jam dodge through Cregmore on your way to Boston or Medtronic.

Sponge Bob

A Claregalway bypass is already being planned by Galway CoCo.

Discussion here

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Don't forget all the jam dodgers scuttling along narrow boreens/bridges around Cregmore either AND don't forget you can get Motorway Tuam - Lackagh and then jam dodge through Cregmore on your way to Boston or Medtronic.

I grew up on one of the rat-runs into Claregalway.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Logic - if something is not necessary, it's automatically too big. Yes or no?

Btw what's with the wasting screen space with the whitespace at the end of each message?

No logic, no link, no surprise.

You are the waste of screen space.

Mod note: user banned.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

antoobrien wrote: »

Logic - if something is not necessary, it's automatically too big. Yes or no?

Btw what's with the wasting screen space with the whitespace at the end of each message?

No logic, no link, no surprise.

You are the waste of screen space.

I supplied the link earlier

dloob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Anyway, back to the good news.

1. Widening of the N67 to Kinvara (and the Kinvara bypass)

Pretty sure I saw something in one of the local papers a few weeks ago about some of this going ahead.
At least part of the ballinderreen to kinavara stretch was being done.
Can't find it at the moment though.

yer man!

dloob wrote: »

Pretty sure I saw something in one of the local papers a few weeks ago about some of this going ahead.
At least part of the ballinderreen to kinavara stretch was being done.
Can't find it at the moment though.

Yes you're correct, tender approved for the ground inspection works for a 7km road which begins where the road narrows the far side of Ballinderreen and tying into the existing road near Dunguaire Castle. I am not sure if land acquisition has occurred yet, I used to live in a house through which this road will come in very close proximity to. The old road is down to the bare tarmac layer now, its a reddish tarmac. Pure shíte surface anyway.

Sponge Bob

The N67 will be done in 2 phases ( apart from a Kinvara bypass which would be phase 3).

Phase 1 to construction soon, c.1km
Phase 2 for investigation, c.4km.

Course we could be years waiting for phase 2 to happen.

Night Falls

A few points on this.

There is (finally) an integrated approach to transport issues in Galway. The Smarter Travel proposals mainly deal with walking, cycling and public transport. The GCOB is another aspect of the overall approach.

The red line proposal put forward on this thread does not, in my opinion, do anything to alleviate anything but N59-related traffic, and seems to be very close to the IDA business park in Dangan. Areas such as LA Road and the docks would see precious little benefit, and the N84 would remain as congested as it currently is on the approach to the Menlo Park junction.

Contrary to what was suggested, the Smarter Travel analysis was not carried out on the assumption that the GLUAS system would be in place, and rightly so. It's a private sector proposal (albeit one that the council have agreed to investigate) with no planning permission, and is half-baked, at best (as an example, they have no proposals with how to deal with existing services that would lie under the tracks, barring saying that they'd shut down services when maintenance works needed to take place) and the construction costs put forward are utterly pie-in-the-sky. A city such as galway should be well-served by a bus-based system in any event. What's missing at the moment are the facilities to make it a more reliable service, but these are coming online slowly but surely (and they have funding to implement them). Reliability will also be improved by taking unnecessary journeys out of the city through the construction of the bypass. The two issues are interlinked.

There are permanent park and ride schemes proposed, one on the east of the city and one on the west.

People also need to realise that you do not need to halve traffic volumes to double the capacity of a road. Road and junction capacity is based on an exponential function, so if you even take 20 - 30% of traffic off a particular route, this can result in massive improvements to delay and congestion. Small improvements from a number of schemes, such as the GCOB or a higher take up of public transport, would result in much greater overall improvements.

Sponge Bob

A deployment like GLUAS would follow a successful bus route, eg it could be argued that the Merlin park bus route (one of the 10 busiest Bus Eireann routes in Ireland I understand) establishes a base load case for a more robust solution such as a tram.

It may not reach the base load required ...yet ....but if it keep growing one can see it getting there.

There is no corresponding high usage bus route in the west of the city and establishing the hard business case for one will start with the deployment of frequent bus shuttles, ideally 7am to 9pm Monday to Friday.

To my mind the important route is Ballybrit/Parkmore to Uni to Knocknacarra and NOT VIA the City Centre.

Lets see how that goes, I heard CityDirect wanted to run something like that every 15 mins but could only get licenced for every 30 mins for the present. Justmary is the expert on buses around here and I'm sure she'll have something on the subject.

Night Falls

Sponge Bob wrote: »

A deployment like GLUAS would follow a successful bus route, eg it could be argued that the Merlin park bus route (one of the 10 busiest Bus Eireann routes in Ireland I understand) establishes a base load case for a more robust solution such as a tram.

It may not reach the base load required ...yet ....but if it keep growing one can see it getting there.

There is no corresponding high usage bus route in the west of the city and establishing the hard business case for one will start with the deployment of frequent bus shuttles, ideally 7am to 9pm Monday to Friday.

To my mind the important route is Ballybrit/Parkmore to Uni to Knocknacarra and NOT VIA the City Centre.

Lets see how that goes, I heard CityDirect wanted to run something like that every 15 mins but could only get licenced for every 30 mins for the present. Justmary is the expert on buses around here and I'm sure she'll have something on the subject.

Agree with the bit in bold. From memory (it's been a good while since i looked at the bus study) there were proposals for radial bus routes that would avoid the city centre. It makes sense, but again you need to have the facilities in place to make that attractive to users. That's a big issue in the west of the city, with the BOD / SQ road being the only area that has been upgraded so far.

And for the record, I'm not against a tram system per se, I just haven't been convinced of the appropriateness and feasibility of such a system for Galway. One thing is for sure, it would cost a LOT more to build than those representing GLUAS claim, and the impact on the road network would be substantial.

Sponge Bob

GLUAS is a local effort based on a proposal by Brian Guckian called Corrib Light Rail.

GLUAS tried to reconfigure the route to where the demand is where Guckian merely sought to 'resusicate' the Galway Clifden line....not build where the demand would be nowadays.

However I don't want to argue about GLUAS save to say that the initial business case for a tram starts with a high usage bus route in my opinion and that we in Galway must start there. For now the highest frequency bus route in Galway is the Parkmore route at 15min intervals.

Once we have a number of 10-15min frequency backbone bus routes we may then start to plan and build towards a tram replacement for those routes. An interim solution would be a busway, a road reserved entirely for buses. One is eventually planned through Merlin Woods to Doughiska.