House Price Register

The_Conductor

I'd like to gently remind people to remain civil towards one another, and *not* to personalise their posts. If you're incapable of remaining civil towards one another- I will have to take other action. Take this as a gentle warning, folks.

gurramok

Tragedy wrote: »

You believe we should edit the jan-feb 2013 numbers to remove 'skewed' sales, yet you make no mention of going back through all the previous numbers to remove similarly 'skewed' sales.
Further, you've decided because of one personal anecdote that all sales denoted with a ** are now suspect, 'skewed' and should be removed - even though you have no actual idea what the ** denotes in each individual case, whether the property came to market or..well..anything about it.

That ain't a personal anecdote, its from the PPR itself. Sales marked with a ** have not been on the market for the buyers to buy. That is not a true reflection of the state of the market. Same for past stats, thats reduced sales in a trading environment.

With the banks now been ordered to deal with repo's in 2013, the double stars will appear more frequently in future stats.

Reminder:

PPR wrote:

In a small number of transactions included in the Register the price shown does not represent the full market price of the property concerned for a variety of reasons. For example, the price declared may reflect the retention of an interest in the property by the previous owner, or the fact that a part or fraction only of the property is being purchased; alternatively, the property may have been purchased at a reduced price under the Affordable Homes Scheme. In addition, in a very small number of cases, properties may be declared as purchased in exchange for other property, stocks and shares, etc. All such properties are marked **.

The_Conductor

The presence of the double stars, and the explanation that these properties were not placed on the open market is all well and good- it is the case however, that these properties both skew the statistics, and in practice, do impact on the open market selling price, irrespective of the fact that they were not on the open market themselves.

You have an incomplete, and indeed a doctored, dataset- if you remove these properties from the calculations. The fact that they are outside the majority of points on a normal distribution table, does not mitigate the fact that they are accurate- they are indeed accurate. When looking at a particular distribution table- they become the lower tail of the distribution- it doesn't mean that property won't sell for higher than those price points- simply, as a whole, they are a valid part of the market.

Whats to say that some of these cut price properties won't hit the market after some remedial work (as is notable if you drill into the data and see the same addresses featuring 8-12 months after initially sold), still at prices below the commonly assumed OMSP?

S.

gurramok

If we knew the OMSP, well we would have a truer picture. The reason I brought this up is my neighbour's house has one of those double stars, perfectly good 3bed semi D. It was never put on the market(as I was watching at the time) and the owner is still in the house about 4 months later. The owner bought at the peak and is in heavy negative equity(at least 200k), suspicion of a bank deal with the mortgagor there.

For the record, there are 87 properties in Dublin with double stars from Jan 1st to Mar 21st 2013. How many were there in 2012, someone else will have to manually count them

Glenbhoy

gurramok wrote: »

If we knew the OMSP, well we would have a truer picture. The reason I brought this up is my neighbour's house has one of those double stars, perfectly good 3bed semi D. It was never put on the market(as I was watching at the time) and the owner is still in the house about 4 months later. The owner bought at the peak and is in heavy negative equity(at least 200k), suspicion of a bank deal with the mortgagor there.

For the record, there are 87 properties in Dublin with double stars from Jan 1st to Mar 21st 2013. How many were there in 2012, someone else will have to manually count them

537 out of 8,755 for Dublin in 2012 marked as 'not full market price', haven't been following the thread, but is that the same thing?

301 from 5,827 in 2011

StillWaters

gurramok wrote: »

If we knew the OMSP, well we would have a truer picture. The reason I brought this up is my neighbour's house has one of those double stars, perfectly good 3bed semi D. It was never put on the market(as I was watching at the time) and the owner is still in the house about 4 months later. The owner bought at the peak and is in heavy negative equity(at least 200k), suspicion of a bank deal with the mortgagor there.

Could be, or a marriage break up, or buying out a silent partner. You will never know.

quad_red

http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/


REGISTER LAST UPDATED
17/04/2013 09:35:31

tootsy70

I was looking at buying another property last year, was told it was sold but checked the register and its not there and i checked myhome.ie for a red icon to see if its down as sold and the ad is still there yet i sent an email away to the agent last year, was told it was sold, sent another email away few weeks ago and no response. Im wondering does all houses sold go down on the register or have they missed out on a few.

Bigcheeze

tootsy70 wrote: »

I was looking at buying another property last year, was told it was sold but checked the register and its not there and i checked myhome.ie for a red icon to see if its down as sold and the ad is still there yet i sent an email away to the agent last year, was told it was sold, sent another email away few weeks ago and no response. Im wondering does all houses sold go down on the register or have they missed out on a few.

Mine was registered 9 months after the sale.

Glenbhoy

tootsy70 wrote: »

I was looking at buying another property last year, was told it was sold but checked the register and its not there and i checked myhome.ie for a red icon to see if its down as sold and the ad is still there yet i sent an email away to the agent last year, was told it was sold, sent another email away few weeks ago and no response. Im wondering does all houses sold go down on the register or have they missed out on a few.

Sales should be notified to the revenue within 30 days of the sale closing in order that stamp duty is paid on time.
Once the revenue is informed, the sale should be up on the register within a week or two at most.

Ritchi

Glenbhoy wrote: »

Sales should be notified to the revenue within 30 days of the sale closing in order that stamp duty is paid on time.
Once the revenue is informed, the sale should be up on the register within a week or two at most.

"Should" being the operative word. Some sales are taking a lot longer too appear, some being a few months or more.

edanto

That's interesting to know. There's a house I've been curious about, that hasn't appeared on the register after almost 9 months now. Guess it'll appear eventually!

xper

edanto wrote: »

That's interesting to know. There's a house I've been curious about, that hasn't appeared on the register after almost 9 months now. Guess it'll appear eventually!

It could be on the register already but with an address that is different than the one you are expecting. There are a few extreme cases of properties being referred to by their land registry entry rather than a recognisable postal address (do a search for 'folio' for kicks) but lots of just vague addresses and plain old typos too (deliberate or otherwise).

jimmyjim11

what month do they go up on the site ?
month of sale, or month of being notified to revenue

deckie27

jimmyjim11 wrote: »

what month do they go up on the site ?
month of sale, or month of being notified to revenue

Date of sale is displayed

mileycactus

Iis there any obligation/regulation on property proces to be accurate on the price register.... IE can an Agent put up what they like?

Example two house side by side, both newly built in maynooth, sale date 5 days apart..

44 castlepark square 280k (Vat exclusive)
43 Castlepark Square 243K (Vat exclusive)

Looks to me like VAT is clearly left out of one of them? Possible tactic to make them look more expensive to prospective buyers?

D3PO

mileycactus wrote: »

Iis there any obligation/regulation on property proces to be accurate on the price register.... IE can an Agent put up what they like?

Example two house side by side, both newly built in maynooth, sale date 5 days apart..

44 castlepark square 280k (Vat exclusive)
43 Castlepark Square 243K (Vat exclusive)

Looks to me like VAT is clearly left out of one of them? Possible tactic to make them look more expensive to prospective buyers?

The agent doesn't put it up the solicitor does and any fraud in that matter as your suggesting would be dealt with seriously.

Also doesn't look like VAT is clearly left off one of them. VAT wouldn't make them equal in price anyway.

Also are you sure these houses are side by side ? 44 & 43 would normally be on different sides of a street.

Are you sure they are both the same design , size, number of bedrooms ?

Are you sure one isn't a builders finish and the other in turnkey condition ?

mileycactus

D3PO wrote: »

The agent doesn't put it up the solicitor does and any fraud in that matter as your suggesting would be dealt with seriously.

Also doesn't look like VAT is clearly left off one of them. VAT wouldn't make them equal in price anyway.

Also are you sure these houses are side by side ? 44 & 43 would normally be on different sides of a street.

Are you sure they are both the same design , size, number of bedrooms ?

Are you sure one isn't a builders finish and the other in turnkey condition ?

Yep side by side off the plans. Seems strange to me as they are being bought off the plans. Perhaps their putting in 40k worth of trimmings but I guess we will never know hence my question

D3PO

seems strange, I would have to assume its a combination of one person doing a better job negotiating the price off plans and also looking for a higher level finish than the other.

Or of course it could be a friend or acquaintance of the builder who got a better deal as a result

Id be pretty pissed at myself if it were only a case of one person doing a better job negotiating than me.

NinjaTruncs

The dearer one could have been a show house, depending on the size of the house and the finish it could make up the difference.

roro2

I came across a very similar case recently on a couple of new builds. The price of one property was initially put up including VAT, but it was corrected about a month later to the lower VAT-excluded price. I've seen another example that looked a bit suspicious (a supposedly VAT-exclusive price of €250,000 even), but wasn't familiar with the property so couldn't say for sure.

lauriemont

Quick question. I've seen a few final prices on the register that involve denominations of - say 210,100 or 199,100

Might this suggest evidence of a phantom counter-bid. SAay for example, I view a house, and I am told that there is already an offer of 250,000 and I offer 250,100 and it gets accepted. Is that what it indicates

Any insights would be appreciated

The_Conductor

199,100 is to keep it in property tax band 3.
No idea whether or not a phantom bidder was involved in the 210,100- but ending up in the higher tax band, is a good enough reason to run, run very fast......

Was there a phantom bidder- who knows, they could even have been open auctions, people behave in very irrational manners at auctions.........