House Price Register

LeakyBoat

I've been trying to buy a house in the midlands for the last year and have made offers of up to €350k. Responses received range from:
1. I'm going to hold out for the upturn and get the real value.
2. The bank won't let me sell it for that price.
3. Incredulity from estate agents that i would offer such a miserable price....
I can see now from the register that I was being generous in a lot of offers.......will this be a wake up call for EA's and sellers??

witnessmenow

RoadRunner wrote: »

I knocked together a page to search/filter/order the results online.
http://yellowschedule.com/house_price_database_ireland/

Seems to have died for me buddy (503), was working great when it was working. If you have any interest in making it a mediocre android app, let me know :pac:

witnessmenow

LeakyBoat wrote: »

I've been trying to buy a house in the midlands for the last year and have made offers of up to €350k. Responses received range from:
1. I'm going to hold out for the upturn and get the real value.
2. The bank won't let me sell it for that price.
3. Incredulity from estate agents that i would offer such a miserable price....
I can see now from the register that I was being generous in a lot of offers.......will this be a wake up call for EA's and sellers??

It's not going to change anything for number 1 more than likely. If they are not desperate to sell and can wait for an upturn then they probably wont sell.

It might do something for 2 and 3 alright.

LeakyBoat

Well, the only thing about point 1 (the real value) is that in many cases it seems to be off the charts compared with actual activity. Is there really going to be an upturn in 2 or 3 years where houses are regularly going for 400k to 500k?? in the midlands???

Zamboni

LeakyBoat wrote: »

I've been trying to buy a house in the midlands for the last year and have made offers of up to €350k. Responses received range from:
1. I'm going to hold out for the upturn and get the real value.
2. The bank won't let me sell it for that price.
3. Incredulity from estate agents that i would offer such a miserable price....
I can see now from the register that I was being generous in a lot of offers.......will this be a wake up call for EA's and sellers??

2 is probably legitimate if the mortgage is in negative equity.

circleskane

estate agents jobs have just become a bit more tricky I reckon

xper

smccarrick wrote: »

There certainly could be lots of reasons for such a low price. How do we determine a fair open market value though- other than at the price transactions are actually going through at. Also- when the website says it wasn't at a normal price (as it does for the vast majority of its entries)- how does it determine this- and what does it consider the normal price to be? And- how can it not be the market price- if every purchaser in the country is going to use it as a roadmap as to what the going rate is? Why pay me 150k- when you can see 2 houses down went for 105k 3 weeks ago? I know if I were a purchaser I'd consider any seller deviating by such a margin as stupid.

Re the bit in bold, I think your interpretation of the data is incorrect.

The header in the spreadsheet for this column is "Not Full Market Price" and the majority on the entries are "No". This is a double negative, meaning that the entries are in fact the full market price. The website itself states "In a small number of transactions included in the Register the price shown does not represent the full market price of the property concerned ...". And given some of the very low figures for some of the 'Yes' entries, this makes sense.

From a database design point of view, it is understandable that this data item has been captured and stored this way. However, it should just have been flipped around for public consumption when generating the csv files, you should always avoid double negatives. It is an all too frequent oversight in the design and build of such systems to focus on how data is going to be recorded and stored and treat output of the data as an afterthought. Been there, done that, argued with the clueless manager at the meeting.

strandroad

circleskane wrote: »

estate agents jobs have just become a bit more tricky I reckon

Or indeed simpler. Stop playing games, facilitate a sale between two realistic parties...

Uriel.

circleskane wrote: »

estate agents jobs have just become a bit more tricky I reckon

I am not so sure.
It might make it easier for them to convince customers (vendors) on appropriate/realistic asking prices.

Glenbhoy

Uriel. wrote: »

I am not so sure.
It might make it easier for them to convince customers (vendors) on appropriate/realistic asking prices.

Yeah, registers like this have been freely available in the US and the UK for a while now and EA's are still in business there.

In the US the standard commission payable to a 'realtor' is about 6% of the value of the property!!! And the buyer may be expected to contribute to that on occasion.

68Murph68

The quality of the data seems very poor.

I have been looking at some of the data and there seems to be quite a few blatant errors.

I have looked at the transactions show up as taking place in Kerry in 2010

All of the following transactions show up as taking place in Kerry, even though all of the locations are clearly outside Kerry.

05/02/10 116 Harolds Cross Cottages, Dublin 6 Kerry €230,000.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

06/07/10 20 Marian Crescent, Rathfarnham, Dublin 14 Kerry €410,000.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

14/10/10 38 THE BRAMBLES, ST JOSEPH'S ROAD, MALLOW Kerry €190,000.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

26/11/10 35 Bracken Gardens, North Circular Road, Limerick Kerry €290,000.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

25/06/10 Barrettstown, Newbridge Kerry €420,000.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

23/09/10 Senscoil, Old Road, Kilmacthomas Kerry €245,000.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

03/03/10 kilshannig Kerry €125,000.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

Also the following transaction shows up twice - once as

07/04/10 23 Chapel Court, Chapel Lane, Killarney Kerry €110,500.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment 23 Chapel Court Chapel Lane Killarney

and once as

07/04/10 23 CHAPEL COURT, CHAPEL LANE, KILLARNEY Kerry €110,500.00 No Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment 23 Chapel Court Chapel Lane Killarney

The fact that a address which is capitalised and uncapitalised would cause a transaction to show up twice is very poor.

There are also a number of mispellings/ alternate spellings of the following locations, which should be corrected as otherwise it simply reduces the efficacy of people searching for a particular location.

Caherciveen/Cahirciveen/Cahersiveen
Knocknagoshel/Kcocknagoshel
Sneem/Sneey

There is also the fact that a number of addresses have Co.Kerry as part of the entire address in addition to being classified as being in Kerry according to the county field. This adds a needless level of complexity which simply makes the data less valuable.

Also some of the data in terms of the addresses is too vague to be meaningful.

The address of 2 Church Lane, Church Street, Kerry is inadequate given there is a Church Street in Listowel, Ballybunnion, Tralee and Castleisland in Kerry.
Unless who search for Church Lane and work out that it is located in Ballybunnion. The fact that anyone thought that the address of simply 2 Church Lane, Church Street, Kerry would be sufficiently accurate is baffling.

Given the high level of errors in this relatively small sample size, I would be concerned that there a lot of errors in the overall data. It's not going to affect the overall trends of data but it says a lot about the level of professionalism especially when you add in the poor level of the user interface. It just further perpetuates the stereotype of the half-arsed Irish government project.

Anyway I have sent all these errors to the info@psr.ie

Edited to add: My email was rejected. From the error message it looks like it hit a firewall, which is giving the message that the address info@psr.ie isnt recognised. If I had to guess I would say that its a case of the volume of mail to the address in question causing an issue. The firewall being used is Spam Titan and it wouldn't be unusual for a high volume of traffic to temporarily block an address.

Ritchi

Not sure if someone has done this yet, but I tried to get average prices in Dublin and here's what I got:
2010
Row Labels Average of Price
Qtr1 323483.5376 100.00%
Qtr2 332170.9707 +2.62%
Qtr3 357972.9336 +7.21%
Qtr4 310342.8066 -15.35%
Grand Total 334942.9567 100.00%
2011
Row Labels Average of Price
Qtr1 322196.3228 +3.68%
Qtr2 320331.9448 -0.58%
Qtr3 330857.1867 +3.18%
Qtr4 301058.4784 -9.90%
Grand Total 316760.9346 -5.74%

2012
Row Labels Average of Price
Qtr1 305457.3562 +1.44%
Qtr2 269810.2832 -13.21%
Qtr3 306802.5372 +12.06%
Grand Total 292406.7852 -8.33%



Not sure if that's any use to anyone.

Looks like prices are up and down a lot, but that's most likely due to lack of data, haven't gone as far as to go into what size houses are etc. So one monster house selling in a quarter will mean that average price is up etc.

Grand totals price change is year on year, the Qtr change is based on the previous quarter.

chavezychavez

Ritchi wrote: »

Not sure if someone has done this yet, but I tried to get average prices in Dublin and here's what I got:
2010
Row Labels Average of Price
Qtr1 323483.5376 100.00%
Qtr2 332170.9707 +2.62%
Qtr3 357972.9336 +7.21%
Qtr4 310342.8066 -15.35%
Grand Total 334942.9567 100.00%
2011
Row Labels Average of Price
Qtr1 322196.3228 +3.68%
Qtr2 320331.9448 -0.58%
Qtr3 330857.1867 +3.18%
Qtr4 301058.4784 -9.90%
Grand Total 316760.9346 -5.74%

2012
Row Labels Average of Price
Qtr1 305457.3562 +1.44%
Qtr2 269810.2832 -13.21%
Qtr3 306802.5372 +12.06%
Grand Total 292406.7852 -8.33%



Not sure if that's any use to anyone.

Looks like prices are up and down a lot, but that's most likely due to lack of data, haven't gone as far as to go into what size houses are etc. So one monster house selling in a quarter will mean that average price is up etc.

Grand totals price change is year on year, the Qtr change is based on the previous quarter.

Yup, unfortunately the issue here I'm afraid is that we are getting the average price of we-don't-know-what?

E.G.

3 houses sold at in Q1

House 1: 150000
House 2: 150000
House 3: 150000

Average : 150000

3 houses sold at in Q2

House 1: 150000
House 2: 450000
House 3: 150000

Average : 250000

Same amount of houses, average differs dramatically accross quarters.

Unfortunately, without knowing the types of houses (2-bed, 3-bed, apartment, etc), the overall averages in price are relatively useless for comparison.

No doubt, some Estate Agents will use those figures however to show that house prices are increasing overall :rolleyes:

mambo

Median may be a better measure than average. That way one McMansion sale for €10m in a given period won't skew the results so much.

Blowfish

mambo wrote: »

Median may be a better measure than average. That way one McMansion sale for €10m in a given period won't skew the results so much.

Ronan Lyons did the basics with medians here. It's about the best we are going to get until someone (inevitably) creates a crosslink with the Daft/Myhome listings to include size/bedrooms etc.

68Murph68

This is the email I received in reply to my email pointing out the inaccuracies.

Thank you for drawing our attention to these inaccuracies.

We are continuing to amend records which are inaccurate.

The address are those which are provided by the buyer's solicitor.

I will ask Revenue to check the apparent duplicate record for 23 Chapel Court (it may be that both entries are required due to apartments or some other arrangement).

Again I will ask Revenue to check if they have a fuller address for "Church Lane" but my guess is that it was input directly by the buyer's solicitor into
the Revenue system - my understanding is that over 90% of stamp duty
declarations are done online.

I will ask the IT people to check why your email was bounced.

Good to see they are willing to take on board feedback. Will be keeping an eye on the database to see how long it takes to update.

However it is worrying that they are basically taking the information from the buyer's solicitor in terms of the address on trust.

I could definitely see a number of solicitors entering dubious information in order to muddy the waters to try and preserve clients privacy, especially in rural areas. Names in as lot of rural areas would be far easier to manipulate in my experience compared to a house or apartment in Dublin.

Just off the top of my head you could
1) use Irish
2) put a name on a house temporarily to cause confusion
3) intentionally misspell an address incorrectly
4) use uncommon aspects in terms of local names

If they want to improve the quality of the database they need to improve the quality of the data input. This could be easily achieved by putting a strict control in place in terms of the address information supplied by solicitors to the revenue when submitting stamp duty declarations. I think this would be a relatively easy and cheap to implement and would improve things immeasurably.

Also I would advise anyone who comes across any errors to use the info@psr.ie address to let them know.

Balmed Out

Very true about rural areas Murph. Im having a lot of trouble matching sold houses to those I remember being sold as most have a different address then what they were under while being for sale.

Zamboni

Geo coordinates should be mandatory.

The_Conductor

Zamboni wrote: »

Geo coordinates should be mandatory.

Mandatory?
Lol. They'd be nice for putting in google and trying to find on Google Earth- but of precious little other use (aside from giving them a new datatype to enter corrupt data into- a + instead of a - might put a house in Denmark somewhere rather than Dublin.........

Zamboni

smccarrick wrote: »

Mandatory?
Lol. They'd be nice for putting in google and trying to find on Google Earth- but of precious little other use (aside from giving them a new datatype to enter corrupt data into- a + instead of a - might put a house in Denmark somewhere rather than Dublin.........

I admit it was a little tongue 'n' cheek...

Rasmus

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1003/1224324777284.html

Inaccuracies reported in the news today - seems like some parts are taken straight from this thread : )

68Murph68

Rasmus wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1003/1224324777284.html

Inaccuracies reported in the news today - seems like some parts are taken straight from this thread : )

I think I'll be sending an invoice the Irish Times for my data research

Cool Rider

Well at least they put out whatever they could have done to their best ability, if they would have waited for correct data that might have lead us into another decade.

markas

68Murph68 wrote: »

I think I'll be sending an invoice the Irish Times for my data research

I thnk if that had money for proper research, they would not need to look for data on boards.ie

Gk2802

Snakeblood wrote: »

Voluntary transparency: Would you believe them? I wouldn't.

Accurate advertising: Same deal. I've been lied to so much by estate agents that I simply don't believe any of them. The only way I'll believe they're telling the truth is if they are forced to. This is just an opinion based off buying an apartment, selling an apartment, and trying to find a house, and the experiences of my friends and family in the property market, but estate agents are as a class the most dishonest, worthless people in business. And it's estate agents who built as a class, that reputation for themselves.

I am 100% agree with you . I am currently looking for ahouse to buy and experiencing the same problem. They always say that they have an offer already ,expecting me togo higher on price, however in reality they don’t . Why can just buyers and sellers communicate directly? Eliminate the fees of this useless agents.

P. Breathnach

Gk2802 wrote: »

... Why can just buyers and sellers communicate directly? Eliminate the fees of this useless agents.

I'd pay an estate agent €3k if he or she could get more than €3k extra from the buyer, whether by use of phantom bidders or by other means.

TheFarneyman

Hi,
Wait till ya hear the new speal of crap put out by estate agents! Went to view a house in an estate, looked at the house price register and brought a list in my pocket of similar types of houses that went for about 90,000 below the asking price. Offered him the 10,000 more than someone paid for a similar type of house 2 months ago(bigger garden) Anyway he started to get annoyed and said that each one of those houses had 70-80,000 VAT on each of the price that wasnt visiable on the site. I burst out laughing and told him he was telling blatent lies. Needless to say he wasnt happy and maintained as i left that he would get within 10,000 off the asking price! Ridiculous stuff, he must think people would believe any crap that comes out of their mouths!!!!!!!!!!!!Alliance were the estate agents by the way!

highgiant1985

TheFarneyman wrote: »

Hi,
Wait till ya hear the new speal of crap put out by estate agents! Went to view a house in an estate, looked at the house price register and brought a list in my pocket of similar types of houses that went for about 90,000 below the asking price. Offered him the 10,000 more than someone paid for a similar type of house 2 months ago(bigger garden) Anyway he started to get annoyed and said that each one of those houses had 70-80,000 VAT on each of the price that wasnt visiable on the site. I burst out laughing and told him he was telling blatent lies. Needless to say he wasnt happy and maintained as i left that he would get within 10,000 off the asking price! Ridiculous stuff, he must think people would believe any crap that comes out of their mouths!!!!!!!!!!!!Alliance were the estate agents by the way!

With out knowing the figures involved just to mention that houses listed as new property on the web site are minus vat.

from: http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

If the property is a new property, the price shown is exclusive of VAT at 13.5%.

davet82

highgiant1985 wrote: »

With out knowing the figures involved just to mention that houses listed as new property on the web site are minus vat.

from: http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

If the property is a new property, the price shown is exclusive of VAT at 13.5%.

you are right, if you click on a house its one of the small bits of information it gives you about the sale if VAT was included or not

The_Conductor

davet82 wrote: »

you are right, if you click on a house its one of the small bits of information it gives you about the sale if VAT was included or not

Bloody hell- you'd think some effort at normalisation of the data would be done- even if it meant adding an extra column or two to the database.......... Its a slapdash collection of random data with minimal sorting tossed into a database. Someone needs to spend a week or two, trawling through it- and sorting it, into data that is actually of use (before we even trying to clean the data).