Government Will Oppose SF Bill To Limit Moneylenders Interest Rates

MarkHitide

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Oh Jesus. Are you really that stupid that you need the difference to be explained to you?

Someone using the expression 'lol argument' shouldn't throw stones-

Guy:Incognito

Biggins wrote: »

I'm not against any lending to small businesses - .

Neither am I , but I'm against forcing the banks to lend to small businesses that they have turned down as a bad risk.

Chucky the tree

MarkHitide wrote: »

Someone using the expression 'lol argument' shouldn't throw stones-

In this case I really can.

BNI

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Oh Jesus. Are you really that stupid that you need the difference to be explained to you?

I saw the proposal made to the government live on the RTE live page last week. The bone of contention SF had was that there was a money lender called Ronald Weisz who served time in America years ago, then came to Ireland and set up money lending.

He was then banned from the courts in Ireland from doing so but continued and has done so for over a decade. He has forcibly removed people from their family homes in repossession acts while living in a country pile in the midlands.

Am I that stupid that I need to see the difference in someone's two arguments, one whereby the wronged should be entitled to justice and the other whereby if your wronged its purely a matter of opinion?

Or am I that stupid that I don't spend my spare time on the internet gambling?

https://www.google.ie/search?q=%22chucky+the+tree%22+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Guy:Incognito

BNI wrote: »

I saw the proposal made to the government live on the RTE live page last week. The bone of contention SF had was that there was a money lender called Ronald Weisz who served time in America years ago, then came to Ireland and set up money lending.

He was then banned from the courts in Ireland from doing so but continued and has done so for over a decade. He has forcibly removed people from their family homes in repossession acts while living in a country pile in the midlands.

Am I that stupid that I need to see the difference in someone's two arguments, one whereby the wronged should be entitled to justice and the other whereby if your wronged its purely a matter of opinion?

Or am I that stupid that I don't spend my spare time on the internet gambling?

https://www.google.ie/search?q=%22chucky+the+tree%22+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

The issue being discussed is not the character of moneylenders or their actions in reclaimign money they are owed. Thats a seperate issue altogther.

hatrickpatrick

If you support a fully free market then you also believe that all bondholders in all banks which went bust should have been allowed to pay for their own mistakes and wind up homeless and on the dole too, and that Anglo should have simply collapsed with no interference whatsoever.

I believe in both of these proposals but I highly suspect most of the right wing "If you're poor, tough" idiots would scream blue murder if that was applied to the political elite.

BNI

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The issue being discussed is not the character of moneylenders or their actions in reclaimign money they are owed. Thats a seperate issue altogther.

It was all brought up in the dail

Fenian Army

I was lobbying for the cap to be at 20% in the bill, I think 40 is far too generous.

I'm not surprised that they wont support it tbh, shower of scumbags.

How labour can look at themselves in the mirror is beyond me. How any labour TD can vote against this bill in order to protect parasites who prey on desperate working class families and charge them extortionate rates is beyond me.

Its long been said that labour died with James Connolly and as time goes on its being proven true

I didnt expect any better from the blueshirts

Chucky the tree

BNI wrote: »

I saw the proposal made to the government live on the RTE live page last week. The bone of contention SF had was that there was a money lender called Ronald Weisz who served time in America years ago, then came to Ireland and set up money lending.

He was then banned from the courts in Ireland from doing so but continued and has done so for over a decade. He has forcibly removed people from their family homes in repossession acts while living in a country pile in the midlands.

Am I that stupid that I need to see the difference in someone's two arguments, one whereby the wronged should be entitled to justice and the other whereby if your wronged its purely a matter of opinion?

Or am I that stupid that I don't spend my spare time on the internet gambling?

https://www.google.ie/search?q=%22chucky+the+tree%22+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Right, so it seems you are. There is a huge difference between what a private business do compared to a member of the Gardai. Baffling how you can't even see a difference.

lol, no it seems instead of gambling you stalk people. Far more intelligent way to spend your time. :pac:

Biggins

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Neither am I , but I'm against forcing the banks to lend to small businesses that they have turned down as a bad risk.

No argument there.

BNI

Chucky the tree wrote: »

lol, no it seems instead of gambling you stalk people. Far more intelligent way to spend your time. :pac:

It only took ten seconds, I'll have forgotten you tomorrow

Chucky the tree

BNI wrote: »

It only took ten seconds, I'll have forgotten you tomorrow

I hope so. I'd be worried about some sad individual getting obsessed with me.

hatrickpatrick

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Right, so it seems you are. There is a huge difference between what a private business do compared to a member of the Gardai. Baffling how you can't even see a difference.

There shouldn't be any difference. It shouldn't matter who you are, the law applies to you. In this case, the financial sector broke this country's back. They shouldn't be making any profit whatsoever unless it's being handed straight back to the government to repay the extravagant bailout they got.
I'm deadly serious about this by the way. Any bank which was included in the bank guarantee should be repaying that guarantee first and foremost, before doing anything else with their profits. The government should have loaned them the money when they were desperate and begging for it, just like they do to ordinary people.

The amount of injustice in this country just hit a record high. I love Ireland and I love being Irish, but there are some times I'm utterly ashamed at the behavior of our "representatives". :mad:

HazDanz

Do we have anyone in government who actually cares for us and wants the best for the nation?

It's so tiring at this stage reading the endless poor direction and lack of balls from them.

BNI

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I hope so. I'd be worried about some sad individual getting obsessed with me.

I hope you never have to visit a money lender to feed your habit. good luck

kowloon

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm rarely a fan of a Government limiting peoples choices. If a person wants to lend money at those rates those rates they should be free to do so.

I'm normally of that opinion, but unregulated capitalism is dangerous.

Chucky the tree

BNI wrote: »

I hope you never have to visit a money lender to feed your habit. good luck

Oh no chance of that. Certainly wouldn't be dumb enough to go to one who charges 150% APR as well.

kowloon wrote: »

I'm normally of that opinion, but unregulated capitalism is dangerous.

Well I did say rarely, I'm not saying all business should be unregulated. However I do think this is a case where the Government shouldn't get involved.

Am Chile

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

As are the issue of moneylenders and the point I was making.



Why should there be a cap? If I own something and want to sell or rent it at any price I choose, that should be my choice just like its the comsumers choice not to take me up on my offer. A shop can put a price of €100 on marsbars if they want. They'll most likely be left with all their stock but thats their choice to make.

The price of a mars bar and the price of rent are two different things again- since some people have had their rent allowance cut because some landlords won't negotiate the price of rent-leaving some people either homeless or in emerceny accomdation costing further money to the state-when they can just put a cap on how much rent landlords can charge for rent-it will save the state some money.

Chucky the tree

Am Chile wrote: »

The price of a mars bar and the price of rent are two different things again- since some people have had their rent allowance cut because some landlords won't negotiate the price of rent-leaving some people either homeless or in emerceny accomdation costing further money to the state-when they can just put a cap on how much rent landlords can charge for rent-it will save the state some money.

What's stopping them renting from somewhere else?

Am Chile

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What's stopping them renting from somewhere else?

1 their rent allowance has being cut-2 despite being in a recession some landlords still have the rent at the same price the last few years making it unaffordable for people to rent-3 its not just being with rent allowance cut that can't afford the rent its some people working too.

20%
of people in homeless shelters have jobs


By Jennifer Hough

Monday, January 09, 2012

ONE in five people living in homeless hostels are working but are
being forced to use the shelters to sleep in because they cannot afford to pay
rent.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/20-of-people-in-homeless-shelters-have-jobs-179475.html

Now the goverment can either put a cap on how much rent can charged or continue paying further money on emergency accomdation for some people who can no longer afford to pay current rent rates- it their choice.

Chucky the tree

Am Chile wrote: »

1 their rent allowance has being cut-2 despite being in a recession some landlords still have the rent at the same price the last few years making it unaffordable for people to rent-3 its not just being with rent allowance cut that can't afford the rent its some people working too.



http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/20-of-people-in-homeless-shelters-have-jobs-179475.html

Now the goverment can either put a cap on how much rent can charged or continue paying further money on emergency accomdation for some people who can no longer afford to pay current rent rates- it their choice.

You haven't really answered my question really. Unless you are claiming every land lord in Ireland charges the exact same rent it should be easy enough for someone to find a place to rent with their rent allowance.

BNI

Am Chile wrote: »

1 their rent allowance has being cut-2 despite being in a recession some landlords still have the rent at the same price the last few years making it unaffordable for people to rent-3 its not just being with rent allowance cut that can't afford the rent its some people working too.

Didn't Fianna Fail bring in a law where you had to be in a place for six months before you could get rent assistance?

Am Chile

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You haven't really answered my question really. Unless you are claiming every land lord in Ireland charges the exact same rent it should be easy enough for someone to find a place to rent with their rent allowance.

I answered your first question- its not as easy as you think for some people to just find another place to rent don't take my word for it-take it from some people put in this situation due to rent allowance cuts.

I
am a disabled person.


Today
I was given notice of eviction from my flat by the local community welfare
officer. Let me be clear here, it’s the community welfare officer who is
evicting me.


In
fairness, she was upset, but said her hands were tied and the directive is being
given from “above” with no discretionary leeway being given to any person.


This
is happening because my landlady refuses to drop rental rates any further. As it
stands the price she is asking for is below market rate, but €75 (per month)
above the rent allowance cap.


Where
I live market rates for rentals are increasing due to the rise in demand as a
result of few mortgages being granted to potential buyers.


Rent
allowance limits beyond which, according to strict bureaucratic rules, you may
not rent have dropped by the largest amount in the country. (Despite the
response to a parliamentary question where Joan Burton back-pedalled slightly on
her initial proposal to cut the limit by €200 per month).


I
rely on family and friends for many things. When I inquire, there is nothing/no
one in this area that will either accept rent allowance or a disabled
person.


There
is a dearth of social housing in this area and no Nama properties (confirmed by
local authority).


Even
if I could get a place to accept me it will cost me circa €2,000 to move, between deposits, rent in
advance, vans and helpers.


There
is no financial help being
offered and the spectre of homelessness looms in three
months time

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/0504/1224315590112.html
Or take it from a mother ot two facing eviction due to her rent allowance being cut.
http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/50694/1/Tonight-with-Vincent-Browne

Am Chile

BNI wrote: »

Didn't Fianna Fail bring in a law where you had to be in a place for six months before you could get rent assistance?

They could of-after being different changes to rent allowance/

Am Chile

BNI wrote: »

Didn't Fianna Fail bring in a law where you had to be in a place for six months before you could get rent assistance?

They could of-with the different changes to rent allowance its hard to keep up with them all.

MarkHitide

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What's stopping them renting from somewhere else?

I suppose if you equate people with cattle, to be housed and harnessed, then where they are accommodated is irrelevant.

Chucky the tree

Am Chile wrote: »

I answered your first question- its not as easy as you think for some people to just find another place to rent don't take my word for it-take it from some people put in this situation due to rent allowance cuts.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/0504/1224315590112.html
Or take it from a mother ot two facing eviction due to her rent allowance being cut.
http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/50694/1/Tonight-with-Vincent-Browne

So the answer is to cap every landlords rent at €300 per month? As for the Mother of two, she's refused two offers of accomadation already.

MarkHitide wrote: »

I suppose if you equate people with cattle, to be housed and harnessed, then where they are accommodated is irrelevant.

Sure lets put them up in the Shelbourne an let them live there and us as taxpayers can pay for it.

MarkHitide

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So the answer is to cap every landlords rent at €300 per month? As for the Mother of two, she's refused two offers of accomadation already.




Sure lets put them up in the Shelbourne an let them live there and us as taxpayers can pay for it.

Yep, all those ne'er do wells hanging out at The Horseshoe Bar-

-roffling as I type-

Cookie_Monster

not so long ago mortgage rates were around 18%, interest fluxuates naturally. Putting a cap on it is not a sensible thing to do just cos it's low at the moment.

dark crystal

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Oh no chance of that. Certainly wouldn't be dumb enough to go to one who charges 150% APR as well.

If you've never been in a desperate financial situation, with no other help available, barely enough food to feed the kids in the house and the electricity is about to be cut off, how can you judge anyone?

I had to do it once out of sheer desperation and I wasn't dumb - just desperate.

Luckily, I found a job very soon after and managed to pay it back early. Many others aren't as lucky. Whilst I'd agree that people who use moneylenders for things such as holidays and flat screens are dumb to do so, the vast majority of people who go to them are doing it as a very last resort.

I for one applaud Sinn Fein for at least trying to tackle this problem.

Ray Palmer

There are actual proper businesses that that charge such rates. If this law was brought in there would be jobs lost.
Wonga has a pretty big presence here and those jobs would be gone.

suicide_circus

Sure financial institutions don't need regulation! Right....?

Biggins

suicide_circus wrote: »

Sure financial institutions don't need regulation! Right....?

Mr Ahern says "Correct" - and we can always trust him.