complaint from neighbour

whelan1

we only have a few paddocks that we can get into with slurry, we empty the parlour washings once a week, this is only water with some dung from the collecting yard... we have 4 paddocks we spread in normally- 1 each week- 1 off these paddocks is across the road from a few houses.... was talking to a neighbour today, old farmer in his 80's- niceman- he said had his son been over to me... i asked why? he said his wife is complaining about the slurry :mad: she is a townie.... so in anticipation of the complaint what should i say to him if he comes over... this guy is 100% and used to work here years ago.

Tipp Man

The easiest thing to do is quote the closed period dates and say that you are compliant with all rules and regs

whelan1

theres around 100 houses in our area and this is the most awkwardest person ever:eek: her husband came over a few years ago to omplain about us using the horn on the jeep in the morning time when bringing in the cows- fair point- we dont do this anymore as 1. i walk for the cows and 2. the person blowing the horn was sacked a while after:rolleyes:

pakalasa

Tell her it's 100% organic fertiliser and that's why it smells.

bogman_bass

tell her that you appreciate where they're coming from but with it being such a wet year you are limited with where you can spread. unfortunatly some unplesent smell and sounds are part and parcel with living in the countryside. You'll do your best to limit the impact on your neightbours but you are limited with what you can do due to the requirement to despose of the washing in a responsible manner.

or words to those effect.

bob charles

she has the power unfortunately so be very careful. expect a visit from authority if she makes a complaint of any degree and be ready to say that you are farming within the nitrates regulations. (I have got the T-shirt with neighbor complaining) I would be worried when you say you use 4 paddocks for soiled water as the regs state

spreading soiled water
(a) in quantities which exceed in any period of 42 days a total quantity of
50,000 litres per hectare, (this figure drops to 25k l if its a karst region)

and the other thing to be aware is not to be applying soiled water within 25m of a borehole supplying a couple of m3 of water

Rovi

This sounds like that standard 'culture-shock' non-rural people suffer when they move from the town to the country.
At least in this case, the new arrival has married into a rural/country family, so it's likely not as difficult a situation as it might be if you were faced with a whole urban family with no previous history or connection to the countryside and no understanding of the everyday normal activities of a modern farming business.
It also sounds like the son in this case is getting his ear bent by his wife, so this must be borne in mind.
I'd suspect that the son (and his father) aren't over bothered by your activities, being locals and having an historic connection to the farm, but in the interests of domestic harmony, he (the son) MUST bring SOMETHING home, or he will suffer the consequences.

As suggested above, be absolutely certain what you're doing conforms strictly to the rules & regulations.

Rovi

[MOD]
In the interests on not perpetuating a negative image of farmers and their attitude to people from the town, I've deleted a few posts and edited some others.
Pithy one-liners are great gas and all, but we should all remember that this forum is open to the public, and 'the public' are the people whom we depend on to purchase our food products, and who have a very strong influence on the creation and implementation of the laws, rules, and regulations under which we must operate.

Don't post anything you wouldn't want to see in the newspaper with your full name and address attached might be a good rule of thumb to go by.

Carry on.
[/MOD]

Kwack

I grew up in the country and have to say the smell of cow manure doesn't bother me in the slightest....its only grass ffs! I HATE when people spread human manure though as it stinks and is ****ing disgusting!

whelan1

Rovi wrote: »

This sounds like that standard 'culture-shock' non-rural people suffer when they move from the town to the country.
At least in this case, the new arrival has married into a rural/country family, so it's likely not as difficult a situation as it might be if you were faced with a whole urban family with no previous history or connection to the countryside and no understanding of the everyday normal activities of a modern farming business.
It also sounds like the son in this case is getting his ear bent by his wife, so this must be borne in mind.
I'd suspect that the son (and his father) aren't over bothered by your activities, being locals and having an historic connection to the farm, but in the interests of domestic harmony, he (the son) MUST bring SOMETHING home, or he will suffer the consequences.

As suggested above, be absolutely certain what you're doing conforms strictly to the rules & regulations.

she's living here over 10 years now.... we would be okay on the regulations..... went to outfarm with the parlour washings today just to keep the harmony:cool:

Farmer Pudsey

whelan1 wrote: »

she's living here over 10 years now.... we would be okay on the regulations..... went to outfarm with the parlour washings today just to keep the harmony:cool:

If you are ok with the regulations I would not be going to the outfarm all the time. If the he comes accross just explain the situtation are in this year, may be it is the time you are spreading it first thing in the morning?. Also make sure the road is not mucky.

But you do not want a situtation to develop where you have to go to the outfarm with the washing all the time.

He more than likly knows the regulation's and she may as well but she has to know that there are different types of fresh air

Dont be daft

Thread lightly is probably the best advice. Even if you feel strongly about it, and in my opinion you'd be right to, its just not worth the hassle. Important not to give an inch aswell.
If there's a hundred houses around you and word gets out that your willing to stop spreading in one field who knows what notions it will put in other peoples heads or her head for that matter.

We have a farm leased right beside a housing estate and the hassle we've had with the residents has been unreal. They've cut wires, dumped rubbish, let their kids into the field, the list goes on.
Spreading slurry has been a real problem but if we held back on the slurry were do you draw the line. Soon you'd be afraid to let the cattle out of the shed. We do our best to limit it, eg spread it all in one go and right before the rain. Still get stick over it.

We're gonna have a new resident beside the home farm soon and I can see ourselves in the exact same situation your in Whelan. We've already agreed amongst ourselves that we wont budge on how we run the slurry or anything else. If you nitrates compliant why should you? Allow your arm to be twisted on this who knows what her next problem will be. We've had complaints about two groups of bulls roaring at each other!

whelan1

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you are ok with the regulations I would not be going to the outfarm all the time. If the he comes accross just explain the situtation are in this year, may be it is the time you are spreading it first thing in the morning?. Also make sure the road is not mucky.

But you do not want a situtation to develop where you have to go to the outfarm with the washing all the time.

He more than likly knows the regulation's and she may as well but she has to know that there are different types of fresh air

when we are spreading in the paddocks we dont use the road so no muck on road.... think its mad about the smell as we live a few miles from a landfill site and the smell can be gross, give me the slurry smell anyday.... in a normal year we would spread on all the paddocks but the weather is so crap that these 4 paddocks are the only accessible ones at the minute... also we dont spread early in the morning

bbam

I'd say the softly softly approach is best, listen to their concerns, acknowledge them. But you need to put your position over to them, it should be helped if he has farming knowledge rather than dealing with a household of non farming folk. I would agree with not giving in though. You have a business to run and provided you are within the law you should be allowed to work away.
It comes back to ye old thing that when you live in the country you need to be ready for country smells, they go hand in hand.

grazeaway

it is a bit concerning that you need to spread the parlour washing so often. I dont know the figures off hand but i think you need to have a soiled water storage capacity big enough for your operation similar to what happens with slurry (i may be corrected on this, but don't milk cows anymore).

While there is usually very little odour from the washings it does contain milk which can be a major pollutant if it gets into the water steam (depends on the concentration). Remember your neighbour is just seeing you going into the same fields on a regular basis with a slurry tanker so is probably assuming you are spreading slurry. like the lads above say you need to get your facts straight before any thing is said;

• Know what you can spread,
• When you can spread it
• How much you can spread
• Why you need to spread it
• Where you can spread

Do you have enough capacity to you leave your washings into the main slurry tank? If so it might be worth your while to do this every now and then. Last thing you need is a inspection where they discover that you dont have enough storage capacity on site and make you build a new tank. If this is the case then it is best for you to have a plan in place to address this before its pointed out to you.

whelan1

this tank also has the run off- rainwater- from the collecting yard, also powerwashings etc, was inspected a couple of years ago and have adequate storage, could probably make dairy washings tank bigger, or cover over collecting yard to minimise rainwater in the tank.... when its not raining- when is that?- we only empty it every 2 weeks....

grazeaway

these are all teh things you need to know off the top of your head. You need to be able to correct them when they say you a spreading slurry all the time and you can say "NO its runoff water there is a difference" and be able to tell them the difference and alay any fears that they also have. You can also try saying that the reason you spread so often is to reduce the amount of spreading that would need to be carried out at one time and that spreading out the time it is done allows for better use of the run off and allows the land to absorb it in a more enviormental manner.

The other thing to take into account is that there may not actually be an issue in the 1st place. If the neighbours have not approached you then maybe its not that big an issue and that the father in law may have taken up their concerns wrong.

bob charles

requirement is to have 10days storage for dairy washings and soiled water. Local councils and dept of Ag love to listen to these complaints as they mean work for them.

bear_hunter

whelan1 wrote: »

theres around 100 houses in our area and this is the most awkwardest person ever:eek: her husband came over a few years ago to omplain about us using the horn on the jeep in the morning time when bringing in the cows- fair point- we dont do this anymore as 1. i walk for the cows and 2. the person blowing the horn was sacked a while after:rolleyes:

what is the complaint about ?

is it the smell , id like to see that held up in court

i wouldnt worry too much , its a civil matter so the guards have no role and the local authority are far too lazy to make anything out of it

bear_hunter

whelan1 wrote: »

she's living here over 10 years now.... we would be okay on the regulations..... went to outfarm with the parlour washings today just to keep the harmony:cool:

sounds like a busy body , even the council come out , they wont do anything providing pollution or safety are not an issue

bob charles

bear_hunter wrote: »

sounds like a busy body , even the council come out , they wont do anything providing pollution or safety are not an issue

depending on the council, yes they will, first thing they will look for is the nutrient management plan and the effluent management plan irrespective if everything looks right. they like to cross their T's and dot their I's in case the complaint goes further

bear_hunter wrote: »

what is the complaint about ?

is it the smell , id like to see that held up in court

i wouldnt worry too much , its a civil matter so the guards have no role and the local authority are far too lazy to make anything out of it

I would love to farm in your area, my local authority have ordered a odour monitoring point close to a friends farmyard. Strangely enough I think they have him cornered, and a good possibility they are going to inflict a serious blow

Dont be daft

bob charles wrote: »

I would love to farm in your area, my local authority have ordered a odour monitoring point close to a friends farmyard. Strangely enough I think they have him cornered, and a good possibility they are going to inflict a serious blow

Could you expand on this Bob? Realise you might not want to give details but ye have me curious.
How did he come to being monitored?
Always wondered if you were above board with nitrates etc. etc. could you still be forced to stop by the council.
Has anyone had any expierence with the council trying this sort of thing?

thomand

'this is only water with some dung from the collecting yard'. its no longer considered washings in this case AFAIK so storage is no longer 10 days but treated as slurry storage- 60 days

bob charles

Dont be daft wrote: »

Always wondered if you were above board with nitrates etc. etc. could you still be forced to stop by the council.
Has anyone had any expierence with the council trying this sort of thing?

being above board with Nitrates means jack sh*te will some authority, there just looking at job justification, Council are the biggest polluters in my area and they are the ones throwing stones.

I will only expand my point by PM as don't want to print anything on here that may disclose identity

snowman707

best time to spread slurry in cases like this is Friday afternoon, councils don't want to know and smells have abated by monday morning ;)

Bizzum

snowman707 wrote: »

best time to spread slurry in cases like this is Friday afternoon, councils don't want to know and smells have abated by monday morning ;)

Ah Snowman, everyone now knows that every Thursday is a wet day ruining Friday for spreading!:D

bob charles

snowman707 wrote: »

best time to spread slurry in cases like this is Friday afternoon, councils don't want to know and smells have abated by monday morning ;)

If a complaint is made to authority they have to investigate end off.


If anyone is having problems with authority that falls under the remit of the nitrates regulations drop me a PM as I will be only too glad to help as I have seen too much injustice relating to such matters where individuals don't know the law and there rights. I hope I'm not going against the forum charter,

iverjohnston

Has anyone actually complained to you yet?
Would you not be as well just pumping the washings tank into your slatted tank till this wet weather passes?

Farmer Pudsey

iverjohnston wrote: »

Has anyone actually complained to you yet?
Would you not be as well just pumping the washings tank into your slatted tank till this wet weather passes?

And what would he do if the weather continues and also more work

whelan1

snowman707 wrote: »

best time to spread slurry in cases like this is Friday afternoon, councils don't want to know and smells have abated by monday morning ;)

as i said before the irony of this whole thing is the local landfill - which is only a couple of miles away has a rotten smell off it nearly every weekend, which is totally gross on a bank holiday weekend.... i have actually been sick from the smell of it and i am a good bit away from it, i dont know how the people beside it actually can live there... anyways no he hasnt visited me yet....

iverjohnston

The difference is that the local landfill is either council ran, or contracted out by the council. You are not. There is one law for a county council and another for rural and farming folk.
If you are ever talking to one of the fellows the councils use to move sludge from small town sewerage plants to the bigger one's, you would be horrified at what they have seen.
The local treatment plant for Cavan town is placed right beside a stream, and on more than one occasion it has overflowed into the stream( someone left a valve in the wrong position) and a local farmers fields. On one occasion the sludge/sewage was a foot deep on his field and of course the stream had carried away a lot of it. Do you think the local county council pollution officer prosecuted?
On another occasion the small treatment plant in Kilnaleck was in danger of overflowing, and there were3 or 4 council officials all scratching their heads about what to do. So they got a local farmer to spread 15 loads on the 2 acres surrounding the plant. Most of it was last seen heading to the nearby stream....................
Mack in Cavan

bob charles

iverjohnston wrote: »

If you are ever talking to one of the fellows the councils use to move sludge from small town sewerage plants to the bigger one's, you would be horrified at what they have seen.

oh no. I taught those sort of things only happen around me. Ever wonder why a boil notice is issued to householders after a heavy fall of rain???

whelan1

mains sewerage pipe goes through our land along the river- i have plenty of photos:D

kboc

whelan1 wrote: »

anyways no he hasnt visited me yet....

he is probably mortified with the stance his missus is taking. i bet you he is getting it in the neck!!!!!

Dont be daft

bob charles wrote: »

being above board with Nitrates means jack sh*te will some authority, there just looking at job justification, Council are the biggest polluters in my area and they are the ones throwing stones.

What legislation exactly are the council threatening with?
Or are they just coming out and throwing their weight around threatening this and that?

I dont see how some of the piggeries around can cause a smell all year round and then the council could kick up a fuss over slurry which might be only a few days of the year.
I know most piggeries are classed as intensive agriculture and fall under the Air Pollution Act but do councils include or threaten to include conventional farms?

bob charles

Dont be daft wrote: »

What legislation exactly are the council threatening with?
Or are they just coming out and throwing their weight around threatening this and that?

I dont see how some of the piggeries around can cause a smell all year round and then the council could kick up a fuss over slurry which might be only a few days of the year.
I know most piggeries are classed as intensive agriculture and fall under the Air Pollution Act but do councils include or threaten to include conventional farms?

Piggeries are licensed with a IPCC licence, so this is governed by the EPA and once this is inplace the council don't worry about them, its all an arse covering thing with the councils. They have numerous acts that they can potentially prosecute a farmer under. The one they use the most is the

Local Government (water pollutions) acts 1977 to 2007
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0030/index.html

unfortunately you don't have to be polluting to be prosecuted under this act. typical.

IPCC licenses are just around the corner for intensive dairy and beef enterprises and these will cost around 20k to get done and then a yearly maintenance fee.

Dont be daft

bob charles wrote: »

Piggeries are licensed with a IPCC licence, so this is governed by the EPA and once this is inplace the council don't worry about them, its all an arse covering thing with the councils. They have numerous acts that they can potentially prosecute a farmer under. The one they use the most is the

Local Government (water pollutions) acts 1977 to 2007
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0030/index.html

unfortunately you don't have to be polluting to be prosecuted under this act. typical.

IPCC licenses are just around the corner for intensive dairy and beef enterprises and these will cost around 20k to get done and then a yearly maintenance fee.

Thanks, knew there was something they always used. Never had any 1st hand expierence with the council over slurry, nor have I heard of anyone around me getting major stick over it.
Although that might have a lot to do with the council around me being made up of a lot of "country people" and probably wont be the case in the future.

IPCC licences for conventional farms would be a major concern. I think I remember the yearly maintenance fee being something like between 3-7k. And all for what?
So you have one more state body to break your heart, take up your time with inspections and generally wreck your head with paper work.

IFA would wanna pull the finger out if/when that starts to be discussed

bob charles

Dont be daft wrote: »

IPCC licences for conventional farms would be a major concern. I think I remember the yearly maintenance fee being something like between 3-7k. And all for what?
So you have one more state body to break your heart, take up your time with inspections and generally wreck your head with paper work.

EPA are good practical people to be dealing with and are usually looking to help and sort any issue that arises. they understand the issues better and if they are met halve way are perfect. Give me the EPA to deal with anyday over a county council. Councils seem to have numerous acts that they can hide behind and are actively anxious looking for prosecutions. Suppose if I worked with the council and major job cuts being talked about in public service if I had a few decent fines awarded to the council it would give me serious brownie points. But of course they don't work in this way :rolleyes:

just do it

Rovi wrote: »

It also sounds like the son in this case is getting his ear bent by his wife, so this must be borne in mind.
I'd suspect that the son (and his father) aren't over bothered by your activities, being locals and having an historic connection to the farm, but in the interests of domestic harmony, he (the son) MUST bring SOMETHING home, or he will suffer the consequences.

I remember Vinny Jones once being asked what he says to his players after the referee instructs him to tell them to calm it down. He said he agrees with the ref and then with his back to the ref protrays all the body language of giving them a dressing down while telling them well done and he wants to see more of the same:D

just do it

Whelan1

I agree with replies thus far. If you know you're within the regs keep doing what your doing. Some people will always have something to complain about and can't be pleased. Changing your habits lets her win and could be interpreted as an omission of guilt. It appears you've your story straight, I wouldn't apologise, more empathise with the things one has to put up with when living in the country, and casually turn talk to septic tanks for one-off houses and the potential threat of groundwater pollution.

Anyway regardless of what you say the hubbie is who I really feel sorry for:(. Imagine having that every day:eek:. Do you feel comfortable enough to ask him what he is going to say to her? That would be interesting (and he possibly has this in his head ever before knocking on your door!).