The Border/NI. Why is it there for some things, yet not for others?

Capt'n Midnight

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

There was a story a while back about Asian tourists being unaware that the Irish visa did not cover trips to Belfast and the North Coast. They plan to make one visa cover the island but unionists will stall things.

Aren't there lots of comonwealth countries that the UK allow in , that we don't ?

fasttalkerchat

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Aren't there lots of comonwealth countries that the UK allow in , that we don't ?

Probably the commonwealth would come into it. IIRC the same report cited people spending a week in England, flying to belfast and renting a car at belfast airport for a week, driving around Ireland before flying back to London to catch a flight home.

The problem with this is that it is illegal to cross any EU border in a rental car. No one would ever know unless you're stopped at a checkpoint and they ask if you own the car so many people are unwittingly breaking the law.

inmyday

OMARS_COMING_ wrote: »

Is Donegal in NI?

Stupid or just being a prick!

awec

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Probably the commonwealth would come into it. IIRC the same report cited people spending a week in England, flying to belfast and renting a car at belfast airport for a week, driving around Ireland before flying back to London to catch a flight home.

The problem with this is that it is illegal to cross any EU border in a rental car. No one would ever know unless you're stopped at a checkpoint and they ask if you own the car so many people are unwittingly breaking the law.

The bit in bold is simply not true.

You can hire rental cars in Europe for one-way cross border travel for example.

fasttalkerchat

awec wrote: »

The bit in bold is simply not true.

You can hire rental cars in Europe for one-way cross border travel for example.

I looked up this and it seems that there are some ways to arrange it. Maybe its just something that has to be pre-arranged.

mfceiling

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Probably the commonwealth would come into it. IIRC the same report cited people spending a week in England, flying to belfast and renting a car at belfast airport for a week, driving around Ireland before flying back to London to catch a flight home.

The problem with this is that it is illegal to cross any EU border in a rental car. No one would ever know unless you're stopped at a checkpoint and they ask if you own the car so many people are unwittingly breaking the law.

Not true....I rented a car last night for Barcelona next month with the intention of driving to France. Checked the small print and it's fine to do so...

slimjimmc

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

The speed limit is 60 mph about 100 metres into county louth. A country road off to the right has speed given in km/h.

I'm fascinated to see where does the A1 encroach into the republic?
Can you show us exactly where the legislative border does not correspond with the international border.
Even google maps/streetview shows the 60mph sign and change in road markings occur right on the border.

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

awec wrote: »

The bit in bold is simply not true.

You can hire rental cars in Europe for one-way cross border travel for example.

I looked up this and it seems that there are some ways to arrange it. Maybe its just something that has to be pre-arranged.

It's definitely not illegal the drive a rental across borders but you may be in breach of the rental contract and/or your hire-car insurance if either contracts prohibit cross-border travel.

gurramok

slimjimmc wrote: »

I'm fascinated to see where does the A1 encroach into the republic?
Can you show us exactly where the legislative border does not correspond with the international border.
Even google maps/streetview shows the 60mph sign and change in road markings occur right on the border.

There is a slip road of to the left off the M1 which has NI road speed limits immediately but yet the border does not appear on the M1 for another 200m or so. Its weird as if the border was created right along the left side of the M1 kerb all of a sudden!

Next time you drive on the M1 approaching the border, watch out for it

fasttalkerchat

gurramok wrote: »

There is a slip road of to the left off the M1 which has NI road speed limits immediately but yet the border does not appear on the M1 for another 200m or so. Its weird as if the border was created right along the left side of the M1 kerb all of a sudden!

Next time you drive on the M1 approaching the border, watch out for it

That's the spot. Also there is another road which runs perpendicularly to the A1 on the other side which is on the other side of the border.

The county Louth border can be seen when you line up the mountains on each side of the road.

gurramok

And if memory is correct, there is one of those Garda ramp things(where they can spy on traffic) also on the left side of the M1 at the same spot. Its bloody weird, where they going to speed to chasing traffic? Into NI?..LOL

I think slimjimmc should try travelling the N53 across Louth\South Armagh, on the same road in a short distance you are in the republic, then NI and then the republic again. Makes you wonder what bright spark created that border!

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

The term "Northern Irish weather" really infuriates me. As if clouds are somehow aware of political squabbles over nationality.

I've thought its idiotic that Met Eireann have four weather regions- Ulster, Connacht, Munster, Leinster and Dublin. Dublin is one of the smallest counties and would fit into Cork or Galway about six times over. Its large population doesn't affect weather patterns.

awec

gurramok wrote: »

And if memory is correct, there is one of those Garda ramp things(where they can spy on traffic) also on the left side of the M1 at the same spot. Its bloody weird, where they going to speed to chasing traffic? Into NI?..LOL

I think slimjimmc should try travelling the N53 across Louth\South Armagh, on the same road in a short distance you are in the republic, then NI and then the republic again. Makes you wonder what bright spark created that border!

They can chase traffic into NI. And vice versa for the PSNI.

Anyway, I've yet to hear a valid reason why the border "isn't there". So far I've heard "but mobile phone signals don't obey the border", "I don't have to show my passport to cross it" and "there's a sign in the wrong place" as supposed reasons.

It really is as simple as if you are in the 6 counties you are in NI, and if you're in the other 26 you're not. No ambiguity. No confusion. No grey area. It's black and white. :P

V480

I've noticed that on British television/radio the term the 'Republic of Ireland' or 'Irish Republic' is almost never used any more. Instead it's always 'Southern Ireland', which is a term that I find really annoying, though I can't say why exactly.

I find that English people refer to the Republic of Ireland as 'Southern Ireland' more and more too. In fact I have quite often come across seemingly intelligent English people, visiting Ireland,who were completely unaware that 'the South' was not a part of the UK!

Rhys Essien

• She has a ROI passport, also if you have been following the News like you say you have the Mauritius PM has only just invited PSNI and the Gardai to help in new investigations.[/QUOTE]
  
  
  

There is no such thing as an ROI passport(its Ireland) and EVERYBODY born on the island of Ireland is entitled to one.

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

And if memory is correct, there is one of those Garda ramp things(where they can spy on traffic) also on the left side of the M1 at the same spot. Its bloody weird, where they going to speed to chasing traffic? Into NI?..LOL

I think slimjimmc should try travelling the N53 across Louth\South Armagh, on the same road in a short distance you are in the republic, then NI and then the republic again. Makes you wonder what bright spark created that border!

Think I took that road a couple of times before the Castleblayney and Carrickmacross by passes. You cross it 2 or 3 times and would barely notice the difference except for road markings! I don't think it is something that happens in other parts, can't think of it in Donegal, maybe Swanlinbar and Rosslea?

gurramok

awec wrote: »

They can chase traffic into NI. And vice versa for the PSNI.

Thats one hell of short chase!

awec wrote: »

Anyway, I've yet to hear a valid reason why the border "isn't there". So far I've heard "but mobile phone signals don't obey the border", "I don't have to show my passport to cross it" and "there's a sign in the wrong place" as supposed reasons.

It really is as simple as if you are in the 6 counties you are in NI, and if you're in the other 26 you're not. No ambiguity. No confusion. No grey area. It's black and white. :P

Well, there is no "Welcome to Northern Ireland" sign when you cross the border. No police either. Only difference is the speed limit signs and no Union Jacks either until you decide to turn off for the A28 north of Newry.

Rhys Essien

awec wrote: »

Er, it's pretty easy. :pac:

If you are in any of Armagh, Down, Antrim, Derry, Fermanagh or Tyrone you are in NI. What's confusing about that? This is like me saying "ah y'know, that County Cork is a bit of a grey area. Where are the boundaries? Why do we have a county cork at all?" :pac:

It clearly is two seperate states. Clear as day in fact. Different goverments, taxes, currencies, flags, etc etc, in what way can that possibly be seen as "not seperate" ? Is it because you can drive over the border and don't have to show your passport or something?

Ahh Ya,you go tell the 800,000 Irish people that live there, that the Union flag is their flag.

K-9

awec wrote: »

They can chase traffic into NI. And vice versa for the PSNI.

Anyway, I've yet to hear a valid reason why the border "isn't there". So far I've heard "but mobile phone signals don't obey the border", "I don't have to show my passport to cross it" and "there's a sign in the wrong place" as supposed reasons.

It really is as simple as if you are in the 6 counties you are in NI, and if you're in the other 26 you're not. No ambiguity. No confusion. No grey area. It's black and white. :P

In day to day matters it barely matters. I worked in an Accountancy practice that was based in Derry but had a sub office in Donegal, a good few businesses traded on both sides and still do. Good Loyalist truck owners taxed their vehicles in the South if it suited and of course many the NI reg Donegal car owner, though I don't think that is as common as it was.

The cultural and political differences are there but they are just as artificial as lines drawn on a map. Sure didn't the Boundary Commission try and give parts of Donegal to the North and the part of Derry on the Donegal side of the Foyle to the South. Marking a boundary on a river actually made sense.

gurramok

K-9 wrote: »

Think I took that road a couple of times before the Castleblayney and Carrickmacross by passes. You cross it 2 or 3 times and would barely notice the difference except for road markings! I don't think it is something that happens in other parts, can't think of it in Donegal, maybe Swanlinbar and Rosslea?

Don't think so in Donegal on the same typeof road, River Foyle doesn't help

Most of the meandering happens in Armagh/Monaghan. You need to get onto Google street maps, tons of border crossings where one would not know what jurisdiction they are in, for example. Try this one in South Fermanagh on the N54!
http://goo.gl/maps/W9Lw

Capt'n Midnight

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I've thought its idiotic that Met Eireann have four weather regions- Ulster, Connacht, Munster, Leinster and Dublin. Dublin is one of the smallest counties and would fit into Cork or Galway about six times over. Its large population doesn't affect weather patterns.

but it does affect the number of people phoning the weatherline

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

Don't think so in Donegal on the same typeof road, River Foyle doesn't help

Most of the meandering happens in Armagh/Monaghan. You need to get onto Google street maps, tons of border crossings where one would not know what jurisdiction they are in, for example. Try this one in South Fermanagh on the N54!
http://goo.gl/maps/W9Lw

True, we might have the odd back road that would have been closed during the Troubles criss-crossing. None of the N or B routes criss-cross, though 1 comes close, from St. Johnston/Carrigans into the North near Derry, must come close.

Clones to Cavan, the N54 does, actually there's a very strange part South of Newtownbutler!
N54

slimjimmc

gurramok wrote: »

And if memory is correct, there is one of those Garda ramp things(where they can spy on traffic) also on the left side of the M1 at the same spot. Its bloody weird, where they going to speed to chasing traffic? Into NI?..LOL

I think slimjimmc should try travelling the N53 across Louth\South Armagh, on the same road in a short distance you are in the republic, then NI and then the republic again. Makes you wonder what bright spark created that border!

I have, 1000s of times. The road existed long before the border was created. The Boundary Commission decided the boundaries based on pre-existing county boundaries rather than the route of a particular road, that's why so many N, R and L roads criss-cross the border. But the border still exists; on all but the L roads you'll see the change in road markings/signage.

K-9 wrote: »

True, we might have the odd back road that would have been closed during the Troubles criss-crossing. None of the N or B routes criss-cross, though 1 comes close, from St. Johnston/Carrigans into the North near Derry, must come close.

Clones to Cavan, the N54 does, actually there's a very strange part South of Newtownbutler!
N54

Know the N54 well, and the N53 as previously mentioned is also another example. There were quite a few L roads that were closed (by NI) near where I grew up even though they only crossed the border for a short distance; often having to take a 7 mile detour because of it. They were considered 'unapproved crossings'. It was really only on L roads that we wouldn't notice where the border was, on the other routes the road surface, kerbing, drain gullies and markings were a clear tell-tale (though possibly people unfamiliar with the differences wouldn't notice).


An example of removing a border, if the idea came to fruition, was a proposal for cross-border health services. The idea being that hospitals and ambulances would serve it's natural hinterland regardless of the border. It isn't yet reality but I remember it proposed years ago.

fasttalkerchat

slimjimmc wrote: »

An example of removing a border, if the idea came to fruition, was a proposal for cross-border health services. The idea being that hospitals and ambulances would serve it's natural hinterland regardless of the border. It isn't yet reality but I remember it proposed years ago.

Health, Education, Fisheries and tourism all should have been cross-border since Stormont started in its current form but it never happened.

Feathers

gurramok wrote: »

awec wrote: »

No ambiguity. No confusion. No grey area. It's black and white. :P

Well, there is no "Welcome to Northern Ireland" sign when you cross the border.

And this seems to be quite deliberate, considering the very obvious "Welcome to Galway/Meath/Roscommon" signs at most of our county boarders on main roads