Anti Alcohol Abuse Campaign

gaffer91

In the Irish Times recently, there has been a lot of coverage of alcohol abuse and how we need to "tackle" this problem. Today for instance, there was several printed letters calling for minimum prices and a ban on alcohol advertising. These letters echoed an editorial from earlier in this week. They were also running stories on the link between alcohol and suicide and the damage at the SHM concert and so on

I think people are getting too caught up in all this and are not approaching it rationally. I don't think minimum prices should be imposed because it is unfair on responsible drinkers and is a form of nanny statism. We also have some of the highest taxes on alcohol in Europe already. Placing even more taxes on alcohol would also run the risk of taxing it out of the marketplace and into the hands of criminal gangs, just like cigarettes. I also would be doubtful that alcohol abuse costs the country anywhere near as much as it generates in jobs, VAT and customs and excise duties, in case someone wants to go with the "hospital bed" argument.

With regards advertising, there is more of an argument to be made for that from the point of view of limiting exposure to children and how to balance that against nanny statism and the money it generates for the economy, so I'm not really concrete on this issue but I would probably oppose a ban on advertising if push came to shove.

I think the biggest problem with tackling alcohol abuse is that people see how alcohol destroys individuals and families and want someone (i.e the government) to step in and stop that. As a social liberal I disagree- it is always the individuals own choice on whether or not to drink/abuse alcohol. Punishing the majority of drinkers for the purported benefit of the small percentage of alcoholics is, I believe, foolish and unfair.

As for alcohol fuelled public order offences- I fully agree we should crack down on them. I would draw a distinction between alcohol related anti social behaviour and the consumption of alcohol itself.

Links to a few IT stories-
Link 1
Link 2

(There is a lot more, these are just a sample of the overall pattern. Anyone reading the IT recently would know what I'm talking about).

Anyway, I'm just wondering what you think the best way to tackle alcohol abuse is and whether you are in favour of minimum prices, a ban on alcohol advertising, limited opening hours and the likes. I'm not, obviously.

christmas2012

I don't think minimum prices should be imposed because it is unfair on responsible drinkers and is a form of nanny statism. We also have some of the highest taxes on alcohol in Europe already

I agree minimum pricing wont change it,but i think a ban or at least a scale back on advertising could have a positive affect..

Kylo Ren

Start a massive marketing campaign that would involve the Government poisoning 50% of all alcohol in the country currently. The majority would stop drinking and the rest would be the stupid people who took a chance. Darwinism at work.

El Weirdo

Keno 92 wrote: »

Start a massive marketing campaign that would involve the Government poisoning 50% of all alcohol in the country currently. The majority would stop drinking and the rest would be the stupid people who took a chance. Darwinism at work.

Don't they do something similar already? Have you seen the amount of Budweiser that's sold in this country?

RobbieTheRobber

We need to look at the problems in the country and stop just blaming alcohol.
In the seaned yesterday a speaker pointed out how far down the pecking order of alcohol consumption per head we are and that many of the countries that top those charts dont have the same problems we are trying to blame on alcohol.

So the problem isnt just alcohol consumption which is in fact decreasing in ireland but other social ills.
So we can increase the price of alcohol but will that fix all our problems, or is that even the real cause of all our problems?


2 link an irish times story about decreasing consumption
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0203/1224311177180.html
oecd stats on lots of health factors the first link is to the page and the second to the excel file containing stats.
The alcohol consumption is good becasue you can see increasing consumption from the 80's to the 00's and since then decreasing again

http://www.oecd.org/document/60/0,3746,en_2649_33929_2085200_1_1_1_1,00.html
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/52/42/49188719.xls

Roadend

We should just get better at lushing and stop being such lightweights

Herb Powell

It's really just the attitude to drinking in Ireland. Not a ****ing clue how to change that, but I know charging higher prices won't do it

Strawberry Fields

Ireland is one of the top stag and hen destinations in Europe, not to mention mad weekends, we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot raising prices and losing business to Krakow and Prague.

CageWager

Publicans lobby for minimum prices for alcohol because they care deeply about taking all the business back from supermarkets and off licences the health of the nation and they also wouldn't want kids exposed to advertising that may lead to them being a future customer alcoholic.

People who are dependent on or abuse alcohol aren't going to be put off by price, it's the responsible drinkers, i.e. the majority, who'll be affected. Blaming alcohol for assaults etc. is ridiculous and sentencing shouldn't take "I was drunk" into account, suddenly the amount of "alcohol-fuelled" assaults would drop pretty massively.

OMARS_COMING_

I always wondered why Irish seem to drink a large amount compared to other nations,is it in our blood? its always in mine lol

Mully_2011

Stop blaming Alcohol. The problem is are culture I've seen parents stay in pubs all Sunday with the kids where do people celebrate Communions and the like the pub. Everything in this country is centred around Drink and if your don't drink your either a dry ****e a werido or a recovering Alcoholic.

bnt

Similar measures are being considered in Scotland, and so the BBC looked at the effect of alcohol taxes in countries such as Finland (link). They take their drinking very seriously over there - but higher taxes did have an effect, before they were overturned in court.

dttq

As somebody who would say without hesitation that many illegal substances are actually safer than alcohol, I still believe as a regular drinker that alcohol has it's place in our society, and has done for thousands of years. These are the same types of busybodies who just want to do to alcohol eventually what has been done to other substances. I'm sick of people like this, if an adult wants to have a few drinks, or a spliff or anything else for that matter then it's nobody's ****ing business, nor is it there business to use their will to trample on the rights of others through the state. We are adults, the busybodies need to stick their noses out of other people's decisions and lifestyle choices.

And for the record there has ALWAYS been alcohol abuse. One only needs to look at ancient societies, medieval Europe where people constantly drank or 18th/ 19th centuries cities like London were the populace were wasted on gin every waking moment. Listening to some of these people, you would swear that our relationship with alcohol was some rosy Walton's affair, before binge drinking came in during the 90s. It's nonsense, of course some are going to abuse alcohol like anything else. Most people though enjoy a respectable few drinks after work or on the weekend.

ArseLtd

I'm up for "un-normalising" of excessive drinking. How is it ok to get scuttered, get in fights, get sick, make a fool of yourself, wreck towns and streets etc.

We need an alternative for these people, something simpler. A drug less destructive, one that doesn't make people fight, one that doesn't poison the body quite as much, one that causes less litter(cans glass), one you can take that doesn't simply sedate your brain and body, one that expands your mind instead of dumbing it, is cheaper etc.

Something harmless someone could use on a sunday evening and still get up fresh and not hungover for monday morning. Something we can trust that has never killed anyone in thousands of years use.

I bet that would curb the use of alcohol.

gaffer91

ArseLtd wrote: »

I'm up for "un-normalising" of excessive drinking. How is it ok to get scuttered, get in fights, get sick, make a fool of yourself, wreck towns and streets etc.

We need an alternative for these people, something simpler. A drug less destructive, one that doesn't make people fight, one that doesn't poison the body quite as much, one that causes less litter(cans glass), one you can take that doesn't simply sedate your brain and body, one that expands your mind instead of dumbing it, is cheaper etc.

Something harmless someone could use on a sunday evening and still get up fresh and not hungover for monday morning. Something we can trust that has never killed anyone in thousands of years use.

I bet that would curb the use of alcohol.

You know I often do think that legalising drugs like Cannabis, LSD and MDMA, which are less harmful both for the person and on a societal level, would go a long way towards stopping some of the more destructive elements of our drinking culture. Just my personal opinion, nothing to prove it. Good luck trying to win over the Joe Duffy brigade though.

Also agree with dttq's point about our romanticised version of historical drinking.

ArseLtd

gaffer91 wrote: »

You know I often do think that legalising drugs like Cannabis, LSD and MDMA, which are less harmful both for the person and on a societal level, would go a long way towards stopping some of the more destructive elements of our drinking culture. Just my personal opinion, nothing to prove it. Good luck trying to win over the Joe Duffy brigade though.

Also agree with dttq's point about our romanticised version of historical drinking.

My friend, I'm fully sure legalising cannabis would cut down peoples use of alcohol. Anyone i know who smokes doesn't drink that much (They all have jobs, before someone tries that :rolleyes: Some are labourers, i know a few college lecturers who enjoy a smoke, its everywhere)

The thing is it adds to our freedom which is apparently unacceptable. Sure, legalising means we can tax it but it wouldn't be long before were all growing our own. No tax from ganja for government, no tax from alcohol either because no-ones bothered with hangovers, fights, unwanted pregnancies, anymore.

What do drunk people talk about? Generally sh!te. What do people talk about while smoking? Well a range of things in my experience but generally you start to question things around you, why they are that way. When you're high you're still there, still able to think.

No group of people who have control want there citizens getting together and asking questions. Its better to keep them pissed or hungover on the weekends. Keep them buying going out clothes, paying taxis, club entry fees(what great intelligent conversation goes on in a club??), over priced heavily taxed drinks, pop music, fashion and of course supermacs. Then judges and garda make there money sentencing stoners, and alcohol companies all make there money, keeping this herb illegal all works a treat.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/crimeandjustice/

Look how many controlled drug offences there are. Compare to other offenses. That's a lot of wasted handcuffs.

ygolometsipe

gaffer91 wrote: »

In the ... we need to "tackle" this problem. Today for instance, there was several printed letters calling for minimum prices and a ban on alcohol advertising. ..

rant...

gaffer91 wrote: »

Anyway, I'm just wondering what you think the best way to tackle alcohol abuse is and whether you are in favour of minimum prices, a ban on alcohol advertising, limited opening hours and the likes. I'm not, obviously.

feeling shame for rant... cursing the hypocrisy ....

If you want the answer, then stop the double standard
there is no good reason for alcohol and cigarettes to be legal.
even sugar is candidate to be regulated due to ill health.

all drugs should be legal or all drugs should be banned.

and saying sh1t like well alcohol inst addictive and heroine is purely by the fact; shows only your complete ineptitude.

I'm glad now I edited my rant

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Promote other lifestyles. Simples. Lose the everything revolves around drink attitude.

Annasopra

Maybe we should bring in the same tax rates as Norway

Wacker The Attacker

Perhaps we could try taking responsibility for our actions.

Do we really need to educate people on the effects of excessive drinking?

gaffer91

ArseLtd wrote: »

My friend, I'm fully sure legalising cannabis would cut down peoples use of alcohol. Anyone i know who smokes doesn't drink that much (They all have jobs, before someone tries that :rolleyes: Some are labourers, i know a few college lecturers who enjoy a smoke, its everywhere)

The thing is it adds to our freedom which is apparently unacceptable. Sure, legalising means we can tax it but it wouldn't be long before were all growing our own. No tax from ganja for government, no tax from alcohol either because no-ones bothered with hangovers, fights, unwanted pregnancies, anymore.

What do drunk people talk about? Generally sh!te. What do people talk about while smoking? Well a range of things in my experience but generally you start to question things around you, why they are that way. When you're high you're still there, still able to think.

No group of people who have control want there citizens getting together and asking questions. Its better to keep them pissed or hungover on the weekends. Keep them buying going out clothes, paying taxis, club entry fees(what great intelligent conversation goes on in a club??), over priced heavily taxed drinks, pop music, fashion and of course supermacs. Then judges and garda make there money sentencing stoners, and alcohol companies all make there money, keeping this herb illegal all works a treat.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/crimeandjustice/

Look how many controlled drug offences there are. Compare to other offenses. That's a lot of wasted handcuffs.

I completely agree. I've made the argument in a number of threads that cannabis and other illegal drugs should be made legal. Convincing people is virtually impossible, because so many people have a closed mind and are set in their ways.

mango salsa wrote: »

Maybe we should bring in the same tax rates as Norway

What are the tax rates on alcohol in Norway? Assuming they are higher why do you think this would be a progressive step?

MaxSteele

Alcohol is already taxed to the gills here and look what it's done ... we've all mov ed from being ripped off for 10 euro vodkas in Temple Bar to pre drinking as much as possible before we even go out.

Minimum pricing even in a supermarket is still dirt cheap. Look at what the british government did. Made sod all difference.

Fupping Grasshole

Yea ban alcohol yea great idea worked brilliantly for prohibition, create a law create a crime